Pyreen - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Pyreen

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Dec 16, 2004 18:36:09 Is there a 3rd ED Entry of the Pyreen in one of the MM out there? Has someone converted them? I searched the Forum but couldn't find what I needed.
Here is the bit of Info I recall.

There is one Pyreen "Leader"
Alar Ch'Aranol (20Druid/20Ranger(?)/17Psionicist)

Two Pyreen "Arch" Eldar
one of them probably Lyra Al'Kali from the Tribe of One Novels
(19Druid/19Ranger(?)/16Psionicist)

Four Pyreen "High" Eldar
(18Druid/18Ranger(?)/15Psionicist)

Four Pyreen Eldar
(17Druid/17Ranger(?)/14Psionicist)

And some "normal" Pyreen like
Kara (The Silent One) from the Tribe of One Novels
Kal Al'Arnok from "Beyond the Prism Pentand" Adventure.
(16Druid/16Ranger(?)/13Psionicist)

Does someone recall more Pyreens to be named?

I hope Athas.org will convert them if they haven't been yet. Just let one "Arch" Eldar, two High Eldar and two Eldar without a name, so we DMs have something to mess with. :D
#2
Sysane
Dec 16, 2004 20:30:17
Does someone recall more Pyreens to be named?

Rajaat? :D
#3
jaanos
Dec 16, 2004 20:55:17 20 defiler / 20 presever / 20 psion / 10 arch defiler / 10 arch mage / 10 arch psion :D

Rajaat? :D

#4
zombiegleemax
Dec 16, 2004 21:41:39 Rajaat: 20th level super being.

Seriously, Rajaat is beyond stats. :P
#5
Kamelion
Dec 17, 2004 3:22:44
Is there a 3rd ED Entry of the Pyreen in one of the MM out there? Has someone converted them? I searched the Forum but couldn't find what I needed.

The Pyreen will be converted over to 3e as part of athas.org's epic rules .
#6
jaanos
Dec 17, 2004 5:58:29 No he's not. He's very stat-able.

Rajaat: 20th level super being.

Seriously, Rajaat is beyond stats. :P

#7
zombiegleemax
Dec 17, 2004 6:23:19 I think he'd be something like an erudite 50/Wizard 20/Archmage 10/Arch Defiler 10/Shadow Wizard 10, and have powers and abilities about equal to those possesed by a diety of divine rank 3 or so, but stemming from a non-divine source. These stats are based on what I think it would take to present a challenge to all of the sorceror-kings at once, which is roughly where Rajaat stood.
#8
zombiegleemax
Dec 17, 2004 19:02:59 I don't know the 3rd Ed Rules, but I think he should have a higher dvine Ranking, say 20? :P
#9
zombiegleemax
Dec 17, 2004 19:09:30 He'd be pretty much untoughable at that point. Hmmm, maybe you're right....With his specific vulnerabilities, that could make him superpowerful, but not undefeatable.
#10
jaanos
Dec 17, 2004 20:26:35 I see him being maybe 20 levels above where Dregoth is. The combined SM's can take him down, remember, when they did it the first time they were less powerful than they are now (as time passes, they are more experienced) and in the intervening time, they have activley pursued knowledge, research etc whilst all rajaat has done is sit in the black. I think i've touched on this before - anyways, rajaat will have advanced little (in terms of levels) in his time in the hollow as he can't actually do much there. I'm all for having Rajaat and the SM's having divine rank 0 - which as the dieties and demi-gods book states, is a suitable rank for powerful immortal beings such as demon lords, which are NOT divine yet beyond mortal power.

So yeah, If Dregoth is a roughly 60-70th level character, Rajaat should be around 70-80th level

my .02c

He'd be pretty much untoughable at that point. Hmmm, maybe you're right....With his specific vulnerabilities, that could make him superpowerful, but not undefeatable.

#11
zombiegleemax
Dec 17, 2004 21:14:42 But Rajaat gained a LOT of power in the Black. When he was temporarily freed, he killed one SK, banished another, and began to flood the whole world with water, generating enough to fill a small lake in the short time he was out. It's his raw might, coupled with Tyrian's consciousness, that powers the Cerulean Storm, a vastly powerful force.And the Cerulean Storm is only a shadow of his total might. Divine ranks simply cannot be on Athas, but they may have equivalent powers.
#12
zombiegleemax
Dec 17, 2004 21:14:45 :raincloud
#13
Pennarin
Dec 17, 2004 23:44:35 No one on this board that I'm aware of has experienced trully epic game experiences, me included.

If one trully wanted to know the power of Rajaat, one would wait for the dragon rules and the Champion of Rajaat template to come out, construct a sample for a medium Champion and have him battle a Rajaat model of a specific power level, reajusting the power of Rajaat until it is only possible for 10 to 15 Champions to be able to dispatch Rajaat, albeit temporarily.

A Rajaat model could be constructed without martially-oriented "divine rank" powers, but simply with straight wizard/psion levels and the ability to use sun magic. About 30/30 levels for starter, but I suspect the requirements would need to be around 50/50 to 70/70.

Method is everything for this highly opiniated matter.
#14
zombiegleemax
Dec 17, 2004 23:54:23
So yeah, If Dregoth is a roughly 60-70th level character, Rajaat should be around 70-80th level

my .02c

Well I'm going to sit down and read Dietys and Demigods now... I'm very old and in my heart I'm still a 2E gamer. I keep forgetting that 3.5 is a linear progression that never plataeus. In my mind there is a clear seperation between mortal and the divine. I think the limitless aquisition of levels blurs the line a bit.
#15
jaanos
Dec 18, 2004 4:28:08 I'd have to disagree. The first time he was trapped, it was through a carefully executed plan. The second confrontation was NOT planned, and there was not the same type of unity of purpose. There is an old saying "PPPPPP!!!!" (Prior Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance)

The SK's didn't remember that the second time around.

I don't see any evidence of him gaining power in the black. Remember, whilst he was there, in game terms, we was a passive player. Sure, he could scheme, plot, but he can't actually DO anything, and that drastically slows down the learning process / acquistion of experience. Even if he DID somehow progress his powers, it would have been at a far slower rate than the SK's on Athas.

As for divine ranks, i agree that divine ranks of 1 or above are out of place on athas, as that rank implies true divity. However, a divine rank of 0 is completley appropiate.

Remember, mortals don't have divine rank of 0 - they lack it alltogether. A divine rank of 0 is basically: "whoopingly powerful immortal being who is not a god"

i.e demon lords, devil princes, sk's, rajaat and the like.

But Rajaat gained a LOT of power in the Black. When he was temporarily freed, he killed one SK, banished another, and began to flood the whole world with water, generating enough to fill a small lake in the short time he was out. It's his raw might, coupled with Tyrian's consciousness, that powers the Cerulean Storm, a vastly powerful force.And the Cerulean Storm is only a shadow of his total might. Divine ranks simply cannot be on Athas, but they may have equivalent powers.

#16
jaanos
Dec 18, 2004 4:31:52
Method is everything for this highly opiniated matter.

Agree 100%. Something to consider though, if we take the view he's maybe 20 levels beyond the most powerful SK, he can still take them all on - WHY? eveything i've read in darksun indicates that he's the ONLY being who can make ARTIFACT level devices, not just magical weapons etc.

So, if he has half a minute, i'm sure he can pluck certain trinkets that are going to boost his effective ECL up several notches.
#17
zombiegleemax
Dec 18, 2004 7:27:05 Hm, a former DS game designer said, compared to the Gods the SK would be Lesser Gods or even Demigods with Rajaat one Level up.
He also said that Rajaat grew more powerful while isolated in the Grey.

Anyway, so no one remembers more Pyreen Names, hm have you used them in your Campaign?
#18
lyric
Dec 31, 2004 7:24:31 No new names of pyreen, but (without completely sabotaging your attempt to get back on thread) Rajaat did gain power in the Black.. while alive he studdied light and life, while in the black studdied shadow (and probably death). Now all are accessable to him to draw energy from. Keep in mind he could probably devise spells or at least learn Knowledge ranks in shadow wizardry while there. Hense hiding his essence in his shadow. As far as combat skills goes, he probably didn't advance much, hense his lame use of hiding his essence in his shadow. :P

Keep in mind there are Shadow mages and Necromancers on Athas, all of whom theoretically appeared after Rajaat was imprisoned.. I'd allow in my campaign for him to study and enhance those arts in his "free time". ;)

Also, was Rajaat a secluded player? I think not, I would say he was still able to participate in activities on Athas. However, he had limited means. Did not the shadow folk of the pristeen tower have access to his direction? If so, he could plot and scheme with the best of them. The shadow folk however, could not become some mass army and vanquish the SM or their cities.. they lacked the power, also, they lacked the Dark Lense, which allowed them to propperly reproduce their kind.. That being the case, their strength of numbers was in a rather predictable limit. Not something the SM would fear.

So I'd say, give Rajaat experience, grant him additional magical aptitude, more magical abilities, new sources of power. But little personal experience in meddling since his capture.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2004 18:36:09	Is there a 3rd ED Entry of the Pyreen in one of the MM out there? Has someone converted them? I searched the Forum but couldn't find what I needed. Here is the bit of Info I recall. There is one Pyreen "Leader" Alar Ch'Aranol (20Druid/20Ranger(?)/17Psionicist) Two Pyreen "Arch" Eldar one of them probably Lyra Al'Kali from the Tribe of One Novels (19Druid/19Ranger(?)/16Psionicist) Four Pyreen "High" Eldar (18Druid/18Ranger(?)/15Psionicist) Four Pyreen Eldar (17Druid/17Ranger(?)/14Psionicist) And some "normal" Pyreen like Kara (The Silent One) from the Tribe of One Novels Kal Al'Arnok from "Beyond the Prism Pentand" Adventure. (16Druid/16Ranger(?)/13Psionicist) Does someone recall more Pyreens to be named? I hope Athas.org will convert them if they haven't been yet. Just let one "Arch" Eldar, two High Eldar and two Eldar without a name, so we DMs have something to mess with. :D
#2 Sysane Dec 16, 2004 20:30:17	Does someone recall more Pyreens to be named? Rajaat? :D
#3 jaanos Dec 16, 2004 20:55:17	20 defiler / 20 presever / 20 psion / 10 arch defiler / 10 arch mage / 10 arch psion :D Rajaat? :D
#4 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2004 21:41:39	Rajaat: 20th level super being. Seriously, Rajaat is beyond stats. :P
#5 Kamelion Dec 17, 2004 3:22:44	Is there a 3rd ED Entry of the Pyreen in one of the MM out there? Has someone converted them? I searched the Forum but couldn't find what I needed. The Pyreen will be converted over to 3e as part of athas.org's epic rules .
#6 jaanos Dec 17, 2004 5:58:29	No he's not. He's very stat-able. Rajaat: 20th level super being. Seriously, Rajaat is beyond stats. :P
#7 zombiegleemax Dec 17, 2004 6:23:19	I think he'd be something like an erudite 50/Wizard 20/Archmage 10/Arch Defiler 10/Shadow Wizard 10, and have powers and abilities about equal to those possesed by a diety of divine rank 3 or so, but stemming from a non-divine source. These stats are based on what I think it would take to present a challenge to all of the sorceror-kings at once, which is roughly where Rajaat stood.
#8 zombiegleemax Dec 17, 2004 19:02:59	I don't know the 3rd Ed Rules, but I think he should have a higher dvine Ranking, say 20? :P
#9 zombiegleemax Dec 17, 2004 19:09:30	He'd be pretty much untoughable at that point. Hmmm, maybe you're right....With his specific vulnerabilities, that could make him superpowerful, but not undefeatable.
#10 jaanos Dec 17, 2004 20:26:35	I see him being maybe 20 levels above where Dregoth is. The combined SM's can take him down, remember, when they did it the first time they were less powerful than they are now (as time passes, they are more experienced) and in the intervening time, they have activley pursued knowledge, research etc whilst all rajaat has done is sit in the black. I think i've touched on this before - anyways, rajaat will have advanced little (in terms of levels) in his time in the hollow as he can't actually do much there. I'm all for having Rajaat and the SM's having divine rank 0 - which as the dieties and demi-gods book states, is a suitable rank for powerful immortal beings such as demon lords, which are NOT divine yet beyond mortal power. So yeah, If Dregoth is a roughly 60-70th level character, Rajaat should be around 70-80th level my .02c He'd be pretty much untoughable at that point. Hmmm, maybe you're right....With his specific vulnerabilities, that could make him superpowerful, but not undefeatable.
#11 zombiegleemax Dec 17, 2004 21:14:42	But Rajaat gained a LOT of power in the Black. When he was temporarily freed, he killed one SK, banished another, and began to flood the whole world with water, generating enough to fill a small lake in the short time he was out. It's his raw might, coupled with Tyrian's consciousness, that powers the Cerulean Storm, a vastly powerful force.And the Cerulean Storm is only a shadow of his total might. Divine ranks simply cannot be on Athas, but they may have equivalent powers.
#12 zombiegleemax Dec 17, 2004 21:14:45	:raincloud
#13 Pennarin Dec 17, 2004 23:44:35	No one on this board that I'm aware of has experienced trully epic game experiences, me included. If one trully wanted to know the power of Rajaat, one would wait for the dragon rules and the Champion of Rajaat template to come out, construct a sample for a medium Champion and have him battle a Rajaat model of a specific power level, reajusting the power of Rajaat until it is only possible for 10 to 15 Champions to be able to dispatch Rajaat, albeit temporarily. A Rajaat model could be constructed without martially-oriented "divine rank" powers, but simply with straight wizard/psion levels and the ability to use sun magic. About 30/30 levels for starter, but I suspect the requirements would need to be around 50/50 to 70/70. Method is everything for this highly opiniated matter.
#14 zombiegleemax Dec 17, 2004 23:54:23	So yeah, If Dregoth is a roughly 60-70th level character, Rajaat should be around 70-80th level my .02c Well I'm going to sit down and read Dietys and Demigods now... I'm very old and in my heart I'm still a 2E gamer. I keep forgetting that 3.5 is a linear progression that never plataeus. In my mind there is a clear seperation between mortal and the divine. I think the limitless aquisition of levels blurs the line a bit.
#15 jaanos Dec 18, 2004 4:28:08	I'd have to disagree. The first time he was trapped, it was through a carefully executed plan. The second confrontation was NOT planned, and there was not the same type of unity of purpose. There is an old saying "PPPPPP!!!!" (Prior Planning Prevents ** Poor Performance) The SK's didn't remember that the second time around. I don't see any evidence of him gaining power in the black. Remember, whilst he was there, in game terms, we was a passive player. Sure, he could scheme, plot, but he can't actually DO anything, and that drastically slows down the learning process / acquistion of experience. Even if he DID somehow progress his powers, it would have been at a far slower rate than the SK's on Athas. As for divine ranks, i agree that divine ranks of 1 or above are out of place on athas, as that rank implies true divity. However, a divine rank of 0 is completley appropiate. Remember, mortals don't have divine rank of 0 - they lack it alltogether. A divine rank of 0 is basically: "whoopingly powerful immortal being who is not a god"** i.e demon lords, devil princes, sk's, rajaat and the like. But Rajaat gained a LOT of power in the Black. When he was temporarily freed, he killed one SK, banished another, and began to flood the whole world with water, generating enough to fill a small lake in the short time he was out. It's his raw might, coupled with Tyrian's consciousness, that powers the Cerulean Storm, a vastly powerful force.And the Cerulean Storm is only a shadow of his total might. Divine ranks simply cannot be on Athas, but they may have equivalent powers.
#16 jaanos Dec 18, 2004 4:31:52	Method is everything for this highly opiniated matter. Agree 100%. Something to consider though, if we take the view he's maybe 20 levels beyond the most powerful SK, he can still take them all on - WHY? eveything i've read in darksun indicates that he's the ONLY being who can make ARTIFACT level devices, not just magical weapons etc. So, if he has half a minute, i'm sure he can pluck certain trinkets that are going to boost his effective ECL up several notches.
#17 zombiegleemax Dec 18, 2004 7:27:05	Hm, a former DS game designer said, compared to the Gods the SK would be Lesser Gods or even Demigods with Rajaat one Level up. He also said that Rajaat grew more powerful while isolated in the Grey. Anyway, so no one remembers more Pyreen Names, hm have you used them in your Campaign?
#18 lyric Dec 31, 2004 7:24:31	No new names of pyreen, but (without completely sabotaging your attempt to get back on thread) Rajaat did gain power in the Black.. while alive he studdied light and life, while in the black studdied shadow (and probably death). Now all are accessable to him to draw energy from. Keep in mind he could probably devise spells or at least learn Knowledge ranks in shadow wizardry while there. Hense hiding his essence in his shadow. As far as combat skills goes, he probably didn't advance much, hense his lame use of hiding his essence in his shadow. :P Keep in mind there are Shadow mages and Necromancers on Athas, all of whom theoretically appeared after Rajaat was imprisoned.. I'd allow in my campaign for him to study and enhance those arts in his "free time". ;) Also, was Rajaat a secluded player? I think not, I would say he was still able to participate in activities on Athas. However, he had limited means. Did not the shadow folk of the pristeen tower have access to his direction? If so, he could plot and scheme with the best of them. The shadow folk however, could not become some mass army and vanquish the SM or their cities.. they lacked the power, also, they lacked the Dark Lense, which allowed them to propperly reproduce their kind.. That being the case, their strength of numbers was in a rather predictable limit. Not something the SM would fear. So I'd say, give Rajaat experience, grant him additional magical aptitude, more magical abilities, new sources of power. But little personal experience in meddling since his capture.