Based on what he know of Galan Dracos from the Legend of Huma and Kaz, the Minotaur how would stat out Galan Dracos.
In those novels he was stronger than Magius, he created the Emerald Sphere which stole power from Takhisis, he was the Tyrant chosen by Takhisis to rule her armies during the Third Dragon War, he was supposed to be the strongest most powerful mage ever at the time of his existence (and Fisty was alive at this time), and finally he cast a spell that caused even Takhisis to forget he existed (although it failed according to Kaz the Minotaur).
I would guess that he would at least be able to cast an Epic Level Spell and at least be 18th level.
What do you think? Anyone want to put in their .02?
Beyond that... *shrugs*
This is just for fun but it's to be taken a serious question.
Based on what he know of Galan Dracos from the Legend of Huma and Kaz, the Minotaur how would stat out Galan Dracos.
In those novels he was stronger than Magius, he created the Emerald Sphere which stole power from Takhisis, he was the Tyrant chosen by Takhisis to rule her armies during the Third Dragon War, he was supposed to be the strongest most powerful mage ever at the time of his existence (and Fisty was alive at this time), and finally he cast a spell that caused even Takhisis to forget he existed (although it failed according to Kaz the Minotaur).
I would guess that he would at least be able to cast an Epic Level Spell and at least be 18th level.
What do you think? Anyone want to put in their .02?
Well, if was able to cast epic spells, he would have to be at least 21st level, but I'm not sure he was that powerful, but maybe. So I'd guess at character level 18-22 max.
Well, if was able to cast epic spells, he would have to be at least 21st level, but I'm not sure he was that powerful, but maybe. So I'd guess at character level 18-22 max.
I'll go for this too. I don't know how powerful Fisty was during this time, but probably NOT THAT powerful yet (14th to 18th). So atleast 20 levels makes Galan bad enough. AND Takhisis wouldn't have choosen nobody to lead her armies.
How about: 18-20 levels of Wizard (or some spell giving prestige class) AND maybe 5 levels Legendary Tactician... Does he get everything needed for that prestige class in 18-20 wizard levels?
I'll go for this too. I don't know how powerful Fisty was during this time, but probably NOT THAT powerful yet (14th to 18th). So atleast 20 levels makes Galan bad enough. AND Takhisis wouldn't have choosen nobody to lead her armies.
How about: 18-20 levels of Wizard (or some spell giving prestige class) AND maybe 5 levels Legendary Tactician... Does he get everything needed for that prestige class in 18-20 wizard levels?
He wasn't the leader of Takhisis' armies. That was Crynus. and Crynus is the one who needs Legendary Tactician (or not, I don't think he did all that well).
He wasn't the leader of Takhisis' armies. That was Crynus. and Crynus is the one who needs Legendary Tactician (or not, I don't think he did all that well).
True, I remember Crynus, just possibility. If he (Galan) is truly the HIGH COMMANDER of Takhisis army he probably needs more tactical background than just leadership. But this is just one possibility... Open for debate
Other possibilities:
- Is he specialized Wizards? Could be...
- Maybe levels as War Mage?
- Knight of Thorn (or kind-of-a same kind prelude)? All remeber Ariakan or was it Ariakas (which ever was the father).
Knight of Thorn (or kind-of-a same kind prelude)? All remeber Ariakan or was it Ariakas (which ever was the father).
Ariakas was the Thorn knight prototype. The class was used for him to represent the fact that he gained additional power from Takhisis rather than the moons of magic, like most wizards of High Sorcery. Galan Dracos probably didn't enjoy exactly this benefit, although I think the best theory in the running right now was that he was a renegade wizard who was somehow able to draw upon ambient magic of Chaos to boost his power (via the Emerald Orb).
Cheers,
Cam
If you were to run a campaign back during this time, what would you put Dracos as?
BTW, Crynus was the general but Dracos was the true leader of Takhisis's forces during the Third Dragon War. Not to mention, this was the only time she successfully entered Krynn with power. I would think that those responsible (Dracos) would have to at least be able to access epic level spells. Even aside from his help in getting Takhisis into Krynn, he also created the Emerald Sphere which was an artifact of unimaginable power.
I also have a hard time seeing Par Salian or any others besides Fisty and Raist of being able to overcome Dracos, so using Par Salian as a base (who was 18th level) I would think that Dracos would be at least 20th, but likely not too much beyond that.
Crynus more than likely had several levels of fighter, then maybe a few of legendary tactician. We don't see his leadership skills in the book so much, but we should at least recognize his ability as a leader. He should have the leadership feat at least, maybe up to 3 (?) levels of legendary tactician at the most.
Galan Dracos - By no means would he have been another prototype for the Thorn Knights. That's reserved for Ariakas. Dracos was not a warrior-wizard like the Thorn Knights are.
Likewise, I wouldn't give him war mage levels either. War mages are typically wizards who fight on the battlefield. Dracos worked from behind the scenes.
Dracos would be a Wizard (although he rarely seemed to use arcane foci like most mages and may be a Sorceror), perhaps levels in ArchMage and Cleric of Takhisis.
Well, when I last read LoH, I came to the realization that Galen Dracos and his Renegade Mages were Sorcerers.
Possibly, but unlikely. Magius as well as several Black Robes all worked with the renegades, and I would think they would have made a bigger deal out of how the renegades casted spells if that was so different.
In my opinion, Cyrnus would be a Blackgaurd/Legendary Tactician. While Galan Dracos for a wizard probably had skill in commanding army's and such, Crynnus was a warrior and general and probably better at that then Dracos was.
Crynus doesn't really fit the mold of a blackguard, even though he leads the Black Guard. ;)
Crynus is a big bad warrior. He doesn't cast divine spells, use poison, summon fiendish servants, etc.
His big special ability is that he can have his head whacked off, and put it back on. He's impervious to most harm, save for silver dragons breathing fire. ;)
Maybe a template to explain that aspect of him. Otherwise, he's just a big warrior. I will grant the idea of a few levels of Legendary Tactician since he led the armies of Takhisis.
You know, Galen Dracos could be one of the few examples of a Mystic Theurge on Krynn. Perhaps he could be a Cleric 3/ Wizard 7/ Mystic Theurge 10, or something. At least that way he is an extremely powerful wizard and he possesses unsurmountable power due to being Taky's lacky. This way he is renegade supreme, and it would explain his dependence on the Emerald Orb(divine focus, perhaps?).
Dracos didn't cast divine spells. I don't see him being a cleric, let alone a mystic theurge.
The mystic theurge works best in Dragonlance for multiclassed sorcerer/mystics since they don't have to have a patron god. You can have a cleric/renegade wizard as a mystic theurge, although such instances would be extremely rare.
I notice that when people are coming up with ideas of what Galan Dracos and Crynus are that there's this tendency to go with various classes or prestige classes that fill a role, yet don't accurately represent the character.
Just because Dracos and Crynus are dedicated to Takhisis, that doesn't mean they have divine spellcasting abilities. Ariakan didn't have cleric levels, and he led the Knights of Takhisis.
My advice would be to look at the character, what they can do, and what they can't do and go from there. Make sure you accurately describe the traits they demonstrate in the novel.
In Crynus' case, he was a warrior, he was fairly impervious, and he was a leader of men. Good candidate for fighter/legendary tactician with either a template added or a PrC that explains his impervious abilities.
In Dracos' case, he's a wizard who uses the power of chaos to enhance his magic and he has a draconic appearance. That should probably require a transformative PrC since another renegade had a similar appearance.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. Use the stats you think work best for these characters.
Great discussion, btw. I'm enjoying it.
Since he is a renegade he would not have had the formal strutured training that is typical to specialists, and he seems to be an all round guy.
As a renegade he can draw power from all three moons, which makes him very powerful. The easiest way to reflect his succes in tapping into power from other planes, is to give him epic levels. When wizards reach epic level, they get a much wider understanding of magical power and the building block of the universe. So no fancy chaos magician levels are needed.
So basically he would be a wizard22, or perhaps a wizard18/archmage4, if you would to put a prestige class on him.
(Yes, I admit it, I am NOT a big fan of the evergrowing lists of feats and prestige classes, but I believe these is the most logical stats.)
As a renegade he can draw power from all three moons,
Renegades don't draw their power from all three moons. They can tap into the power of High Sorcery, but that power is not affected by the phases of the moons.
The easiest way to reflect his succes in tapping into power from other planes, is to give him epic levels. When wizards reach epic level, they get a much wider understanding of magical power and the building block of the universe. So no fancy chaos magician levels are needed.
He transformed into a draconic being, so something needs to be in place for that at least. I always figured his chaos magic would be tied to the same PrC, but I guess one could tackle it with a feat, or with other existing abilities.
So basically he would be a wizard22, or perhaps a wizard18/archmage4, if you would to put a prestige class on him.
Archmage is a good idea. Certainly, Dracos would be a good candidate.
Possibly, but unlikely. Magius as well as several Black Robes all worked with the renegades, and I would think they would have made a bigger deal out of how the renegades casted spells if that was so different.
Well, I can see where you're coming from, and I'll admit it's been awhile since reading LoH, but it was my understanding that Galen Dracos and his renegades were seen as abominations to magic. THe black robes worked with him because, well, they're evil, he's evil, they've got somehting in common. THat's a good base to build a relationship on. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. They wanted the preservation of their Lord Nuitari's gift on Krynn, he wanted to utterly destroy the world with the unholy power of chaos....in other words, they split up. And instead of the Black Robes just simply taking back all the gifts they ever gave him and burning them, they decided instead to betray him and defeat his goddess. Oh well. All's fair in love and war....
Crynus doesn't really fit the mold of a blackguard, even though he leads the Black Guard.
Crynus is a big bad warrior. He doesn't cast divine spells, use poison, summon fiendish servants, etc.
His big special ability is that he can have his head whacked off, and put it back on. He's impervious to most harm, save for silver dragons breathing fire.
Maybe a template to explain that aspect of him. Otherwise, he's just a big warrior. I will grant the idea of a few levels of Legendary Tactician since he led the armies of Takhisis.
If I was the DungeonMaster, and Galan Dracos and Cyrnus's Players were asking me to do Crynus, I would make him a BlackGaurd. I would swap make the Players decide which BlackGaurd abillity's to swap out in exchange for the Regeneration Power. I would let him use Divine spells, but restrict it to lower level ones. I would let him use poison, big deal. And I would let him be able to summon some fiendish servants, but would have to be in the form of fiendish dragon spirits of some kind.
I am sure the pC's would agree to it.
If I was the DungeonMaster, and Galan Dracos and Cyrnus's Players were asking me to do Crynus, I would make him a BlackGaurd. I would swap make the Players decide which BlackGaurd abillity's to swap out in exchange for the Regeneration Power. I would let him use Divine spells, but restrict it to lower level ones. I would let him use poison, big deal. And I would let him be able to summon some fiendish servants, but would have to be in the form of fiendish dragon spirits of some kind.
I am sure the pC's would agree to it.
I'm sure they would. As long as your players have fun with it, it's cool.
If I might ask, though, why would you go for Blackguard for Crynus? Is it because he led the Black Guard, or is there another reason?
I see Dracos as being Wizard 10/10, I think that the L10 ability of his PrC is to get the Epic Spellcasting feat as a bonus feat. Archmage would be nice, but not if you wanted to make it balanced(Hey, i can see getting a special ability 1 level lower as not unbalanced). I think he's only Level 20, not Epic. Given that Fisty before becoming a Demilich was only 22.
I think if it were me, I'd go with wizard 5/Funky PrC 10/Archmage (3-5?). Each of Galan Dracos' renegades transformed into a draconic appearance, plus they tapped into chaos-enhanced magic, so I think a Funky PrC is in order. I imagine a transformative PrC where level 10 is what Galan Dracos turns into. Lower levels would be like the one Huma pinned to a tree with his sword.
I'm not quite sure what to call the PrC. Brown Robe Renegade? Acolyte of Dracos? Renegade of Dracos? *shrugs*
PS: I came up with the name...Wizards of High Funky!
I'm sure they would. As long as your players have fun with it, it's cool.
If I might ask, though, why would you go for Blackguard for Crynus? Is it because he led the Black Guard, or is there another reason?
To be honest, I did not choose BlackGuard for Cyrnus because he was the leader of that group. I have not read Legend of Huma for a long time, and so I was more or less going on what I remember of Crynus.
When you look at the BlackGaurd prestige class, I have to say it fits Crynus very well. In retrospect, I would say Level something BlackGaurd/Level something Legendary Tactician/Level something DragonRider would be most appropriate. When you look at the spells available to a BlackGaurd, they fit and you an almost see Crynus perhaps using a few of them himself. I would replace his fiendish servant abillity with this regeneration abillity.
I think if it were me, I'd go with wizard 5/Funky PrC 10/Archmage (3-5?). Each of Galan Dracos' renegades transformed into a draconic appearance, plus they tapped into chaos-enhanced magic, so I think a Funky PrC is in order. I imagine a transformative PrC where level 10 is what Galan Dracos turns into. Lower levels would be like the one Huma pinned to a tree with his sword.
I'm not quite sure what to call the PrC. Brown Robe Renegade? Acolyte of Dracos? Renegade of Dracos? *shrugs*
What i was thinking of would be something that you only master at 19th or 20th level and as its last ability gives the Epic Spellcasting feat at non-epic levels. Note that Wizard9/Funky PrC10/Archmage/1 is also OK the way i see it. I think that he should not be epic leveled but that he should be able to cast epic spells, which presents a problem.