One of the main reasons the setting never really got the recognition it deserves is,IMHO, that it was never published as a single comprehensive package. There is no Mystara "core book" that includes a usable overview of the entire world. The closest it seems to get are the "Almanac" series, but even they leave out major details (no info on religion or even a comprehensive list of Immortals, for example). Most of this is due, of course, to the setting being developed piecemail over time in a variety of books and Dragon articles. This makes it hard on GMs and players because there's no common "entry point" to the setting.
So I'm hoping that somebody manages to buy the rights to Mystara and really give it the print treatment it deserves.
Could it happen? Why hasn't it happened yet?
But, as the saying goes, "With great power comes great responsibilty". We have the great power of determining our world, as well as the great responsibility of bringing new players to it so it does not die.
But, as the saying goes, "With great power comes great responsibilty". We have the great power of determining our world, as well as the great responsibility of bringing new players to it so it does not die.
Hear hear!
:-) Jesper
But I would rather not see it back in print and shoehorned to fit 3E conventions, it wouldn't be the same.
Now if someone published it to fit with Castles & Crusades, that might be worth looking into.
If Kenzer & Co ever get around to publishing Hackmaster Mystara, it will be back in print. Otherwise it probably won't happen.
I hope James will get HM Mystara finnished soon. Id love to see Mystara back in print. OTOH, I think the great creativity among the Mystara fans is partly owed to the fact that noone else makes stuff for our setting. I'd hate to lose that.
But I would rather not see it back in print and shoehorned to fit 3E conventions, it wouldn't be the same.
I think Mystara could have a greater success with 3E than it was given with AD&D 2e. I see very few problems with using more or less the standard 3e rules, but if needed the 3e system could easily be modified to fit the specifications of Mystara.
Now if someone published it to fit with Castles & Crusades, that might be worth looking into.
I've only looked at it briefly, but I was disappointed. C&C seems to have the complexity of 3E and the rigidness of OE. Id much rather see something keeping the simplicity of OE and the flexibility of OE. I have great hopes for Green Ronin's Blue Rose RPG, a fantasy RPG based on the D20 system developed for the highly acclaimed Mutants & Masterminds.
Håvard
I think it would work better with a rules set closer in spirit to RC era D&D than 3.5e, such as Castles & Crusades, Hackmaster, or even Savage Worlds. James Mishler's Hackwurld project is probably still the best chance to see Mystara back in print, as there is already a working license between Kenzer and WotC. Anyone else would have to work out a new agreement with WotC (assuming WotC doesn't decide to support the setting themselves, which we all know aint going to happen).
R.A.
OTOH, new artwork would be cool! .
I dont know...i still think the artwork in the Gaz is the best darn artwork i've seen in a supplement. Wouldnt want that uber-punk, shadowrunning, spiky haired and spiky armored stuff polluting my KW/Mystara.
or even Savage Worlds.
R.A.
I'm glad you said that, RA ;) I've been converting DotE to SW for a while now. Mystara, IMHO, is linked to the fast playing, rules lite BECM/RC version of D&D (qualities that SW has as well) and one fits the other like a glove. I wouldnt saddle Mystara with a heavy system like HM or d20. I wouldnt know if C&C would fit the bill simply because i know next to nothing about the game.
I hope James will get HM Mystara finnished soon. Id love to see Mystara back in print. OTOH, I think the great creativity among the Mystara fans is partly owed to the fact that noone else makes stuff for our setting. I'd hate to lose that.
Kenzer & Co is doing a Hackmaster version of Mystara?
Many of the basic assumptions of the setting are linked to that rules set. For that reason, I think many publishers would be gunshy about trying to create a 3e version of the setting.
I think it would work better with a rules set closer in spirit to RC era D&D than 3.5e
I don't know why some people think that Mystara's link to OD&D is prohibitive to running it in 3.5. I've been running a D&D 3.5 version of Mystara and it works just fine.
Breaking the ties to the original rules does nothing detrimental to the setting in my opinion. In fact, I think 3rd Edition enhances Mystara by allowing us to do away with all of those OD&D rules that have been misinterpreted as canon for the setting.
Want to play an elven rogue? Sorry, the OD&D rules set does not allow it. Elven ranger from Foreston? Nope. Elven barbarian from the frozen wastelands of Vulcania? Too bad for you. Your elf has all the same class abilities as every other member of her race. Simple? Sure is.
Now, in 3E, all of those race/class combinations are available, and all of them can fit somewhere in the campaign setting (albeit some better than others) despite the "preconceptions" tied to the old rules set Mystara ran under.
I don't think any publisher would shy away from doing the conversion to 3E because it "doesn't fit" Mystara. The problem is that Mystara's fan base is too small to make it a profitable venture for any serious company.
That's why I'm promising to publish Mystara myself - regardless of profit or loss - if I ever win the lottery.
I dont know...i still think the artwork in the Gaz is the best darn artwork i've seen in a supplement. Wouldnt want that uber-punk, shadowrunning, spiky haired and spiky armored stuff polluting my KW/Mystara.
I certainly couldn't disagree with you on that "anime" type art, but I was thinking more art of the same style as the gazetteers. I'd just love to experience seeing the gazes again for the first time ;) .
I don't know why some people think that Mystara's link to OD&D is prohibitive to running it in 3.5
I'm with you on this one. Greyhawk seemed to be able to be played in many different versions of D&D, including 3E. A setting is not the sum of it's rules. I think the rules you choose to use is merely preference, just as it is for the setting you chose to play those rules in. Me personally, the rules have changed a few times, but the setting has forever been, as shall forever remain, Mystara.
Come to think of it, the lure Mystara has for me is it's incredible variety and versitility, so what better setting has the capability to facititate a variety of rules. But no matter the rules used, happy gaming in Mystara folks! :D
I don't know why some people think that Mystara's link to OD&D is prohibitive to running it in 3.5. I've been running a D&D 3.5 version of Mystara and it works just fine.
I agree with you on that one! :D
Want to play an elven rogue? Sorry, the OD&D rules set does not allow it. Elven ranger from Foreston? Nope. Elven barbarian from the frozen wastelands of Vulcania? Too bad for you. Your elf has all the same class abilities as every other member of her race. Simple? Sure is.
Now, in 3E, all of those race/class combinations are available, and all of them can fit somewhere in the campaign setting (albeit some better than others) despite the "preconceptions" tied to the old rules set Mystara ran under.
Actually, I have always felt that Mystara wasn't limited or dictated by the BECM/RC rules of OD&D but on the contrary expanded on them! Think of dwarven clerics from Rockhome Gaz, Rakes and Foresters from Thyatis Gaz, the Secret Crafts from Glantri Gaz, the storytelling system from Ylaruam and Five Shires Gaz, the non-spellcasting warrior elves from Hollow World and probably many others that I have forgotten about. To me, Mystara has always had a very distinct 'feel' but rules never had anything to do with it ;)
:-) Jesper
Actually, I have always felt that Mystara wasn't limited or dictated by the BECM/RC rules of OD&D but on the contrary expanded on them! Think of dwarven clerics from Rockhome Gaz, Rakes and Foresters from Thyatis Gaz, the Secret Crafts from Glantri Gaz, the storytelling system from Ylaruam and Five Shires Gaz, the non-spellcasting warrior elves from Hollow World and probably many others that I have forgotten about. To me, Mystara has always had a very distinct 'feel' but rules never had anything to do with it
Yes, there were all of those optional character classes from the GAZ series, but to me they always seemed awkward in their game mechanics. It was obvious the authors longed for a more flexible system, and because the optional classes were such a big hit, the fan base wanted more options as well. Mystara was desperately trying to claw its way out of the OD&D rules set.
3E can easily accomodate all of the old GAZ classes as either Prestige Classes, or as new base classes (I've tried my hand at converting a few, with mixed results). 3E also allows race/class combinations that were missing from OD&D and from the GAZ series (such as my elf example).
Mystara is stuck between a rock and a hard place. It doesn't have the 70's old school cache of the recent elaborate Blackmoor, Wilderlands and Arduin re-releases. However, it doesn't have the extensive recent fanbase of the Dragonlance and Ravenloft settings.
It will be far more likely that a publisher with a game more akin to BECM D&D, and who is looking to attract gamers familiar with that rule set (primarily the aforementioned HM, C&C, and SW), will look at the setting and say "yeah, we can make that successful" than a publisher using d20.
I could be wrong. Maybe a 3.5 product for Mystara will come out. I'd be shocked, though. And, I might even buy it.
R.A.
http://www.kenzerco.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=637429&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Yah, it was supposed to come out a while ago but the writer ran into some 'real-world' issues and the project has gotten pushed back.
I see. Thanks for the information.
Yah, it was supposed to come out a while ago but the writer ran into some 'real-world' issues and the project has gotten pushed back. Hopefully he is doing okay now. I think there might be more information in the Vaults.
This is old news. James Mishler is back on the project, but no date is yet given to when it will be published. Still, things are indeed happening.
AFAIK the product will be parody Mystara like other HackMaster products are also parodies, but not the type of parody where you laugh at Mystara, but rather a humoristic product written by a Mystara fan, for Mystara fans. And there should be plenty of useful stuff in there for those who intend to run non-HackMaster Mystara campaigns aswell.
Håvard
When I mentioned 3E conventions, I am not just talking about the 3E rules themselves. I am also talking about 3E publishing "rules". For someone to publish Mystara today, they will, of course, have to publish it as 3.5E, either d20 or OGL. But they will also have to publish it so that it will sell and make a profit, and then means they have to focus their efforts on certain things.
The D&D Known World has a large number of modules published for it because that was what TSR sold back in the early '80's. Later on, RPG companies figured out that modules didn't sell as well as sourcebooks, so sourcebooks became the predominant RPG published product. So looking at the trends since 3E was published, we can make a good guess as to what would have been published for the Mystara campaign setting if it had been supported during the last few years.
We could have expected a hardcover book with plenty of "crunch", feats, prestige classes, etc. The fluff would be mostly rehashed from previous products. So would this crunch have fit the Mystara setting, been compatible with it, or taken the setting in new and/or completely different directions?
Hard to say. One could go through the Rules Cyclopedia and translate all the combat proficiencies and some of the skills to feats, and go through the Gazeteers and make all those specialty classes prestige classes. But would we buy the product for conversion work that could be done by fans online? If the developer went in a totally new direction, to put their own stamp on the Mystara world, some might like it. I don't know if I would, a book of feats and prestige classes for Mystara isn't what I am looking for.
Now that has changed slightly, setting material is becoming more popular again, with Eberron and third party campaign settings including Blackmoor. But again, do I really want more sourcebooks? As Havard has pointed out, the fans of the campaign setting have done a great job adding to Mystara lore. This is because we care to put the time in and build on what came before, and we can focus on what interests us most, which doesn't have to be a topic that will attract a wide audience.
One example would be the Ghyr gazeteer, no company would attempt to publish something so you can integrate a twenty year old module into a campaign. But for me, that information is very useful for my own campaign.
Now as for the 3E rules themselves, and how a published product would use them. I agree with katana that most 3E race/class combos can be fit into the setting so as to fit with the original material. But would a publisher make that kind of effort, or would they not want to place any restrictions for fear of limiting their audience? Dragon published Dark Sun 3E deciding to do the latter, and alienated many of the fans.
Now I don't completely agree that OD&D rules were misinterpreted as canon for the setting. For me, the heart of the Mystara campaign setting will always be the X/CM/M rule sets and adventure module series(and B10), and the Gazeteers. Everything else adds to that foundation. The Gazeteers were written under the constraints of the OD&D rules, and as a result, the campaign setting developed in certain directions that it would not have if the gazeteers had been published under AD&D rules.
So are there half-elves in the D&D Known World? No, not according to GAZ5 Elves of Alfheim. Offspring of elves and humans are either elves or human. Now that bit of fluff is not there for any other reason than half-elves aren't part of the OD&D rules. And yeah, I know that wasn't the case for the Savage Coast.
So if you have a few half-elves in your campaign, or elven rogues, or dwarven wizards, does that mean it isn't Mystara? No, of course not.
You can have all those things, and even tie it closer to the older material by requiring half-elves to come from the Savage Coast, or that elven rogues are restricted to certain clans like the Belcadiz or Clan Chossum(as examples) or that if you want to play a dwarven wizard that the character is Modrigswerg. All this is what I think you mean katana when you talk about fitting the multitude of possibilities of 3E somewhere in the campaign setting.
But I don't see a publisher doing this, the fans yes, but a publisher no.
Of course, all this is hypothetical, I also agree that a Mystara 3E hardcover can't really expect to make a profit with the multitude of D&D settings out today. Forgotten Realms is close enough to Mystara that people would rather choose that as it is better known. I do hope Hackmaster Mystara is successful.
Now there is one area that 3E D&D does fall down in when it comes to running a Mystara campaign as I do in OD&D. I like it as a setting where you can run a campaign ranging from 1st to 36th level. The rules for running an adventure or campaign for very high level characters works pretty well in OD&D. With the epic level handbook, I also have the rules to run that same campaign for high level characters in 3E, but the problem is, I don't have time to write the adventures.
Mike Mearls summed it up best in another forum, 3E mechanics are designed for players to build their characters. DMs are given those same mechanics to build NPCs and monsters. But those mechanics are designed to give lots of choice and take a lot of time to complete. For a player, options are good, and the time requirement is not difficult because he or she is only going to do it for one character. But for a DM, I have to do it for every adversary the players face, and it takes way too much time.
Let's say I want to run an adventure for a group of 30th level PCs. They are going to be scouting and raiding five estates adjacent to each other on Sclaras Island. All five 36th level wizards will be home, along with assorted minions.
I need to create and stat these five wizards. Under OD&D rules, I can do it in an hour or two. Under 3E, I am looking at 3x that, at least. Maybe less if I restrict things to just the core books, but that depends on if the players like to be also restricted to just the core books.
I don't have the time to run this adventure under 3E rules, because I don't have the time to finish writing it. Not and keep a campaign going with any momentum.
That is an example of how 3E limits the Mystara setting for me personally.
I think that one of the problems with re-publishing Mystara, is that in order to do that you have to think of Mystara as a whole - and thinking of it as a whole reveals some basic inherent problems. The fact that Mystara was created piece by piece, Gaz by Gaz, makes this world a less "organic" one than, say, Krynn or Eberron. Problems such as the proximity of such diverse cultures as Ylaruam and Vestland (this matter has been addressed in these boards before) creates the feeling that Mystara "makes no sense" as a world. If someone wants to republish this world, I believe this issue might be quite a problem for him (although it could be solved, of course).
OTOH, I believe that what makes Mystara truly unique is the whole "No-Good-vs.-Evil" notion. The Gazetteers (which I adore) created a world which is so complicated that no single narrative can dominate it. I think this point could be very attractive to players who sense that such themes as "The Balance of Good and Evil" (i.e. DragonLance) are rather superficial. From this point of view, Mystara could be a very relevant setting for our times.
Sorry for rambling. I guess I just missed these boards...
) but means music released by independent record companies (as opposed to the dominant international record corporations).And it made me think: if music enthusiasts can somehow record a cd and sell e.g. 30,000 copies to a small network of fans that appreciate that sort of thing, what (apart from the legal rights) keeps Mystara fans from re-releasing our beloved setting? I know a team of writers and editors would need to be established, a publisher and printer found, artwork selected and we would need somewhere to sell the book like Amazon.com or something. But my point is: could it not be done without leading to financial ruin for those involved?
How much would you pay (let's say in US$) for a hard-cover 3E or 3.5E re-release of the Known World? (to begin with, let's worry about Hollow World and Savage Coast later :D )
With the epic level handbook, I also have the rules to run that same campaign for high level characters in 3E, but the problem is, I don't have time to write the adventures.
...for a DM, I have to do it for every adversary the players face, and it takes way too much time.
Let's say I want to run an adventure for a group of 30th level PCs. They are going to be scouting and raiding five estates adjacent to each other on Sclaras Island. All five 36th level wizards will be home, along with assorted minions.
I need to create and stat these five wizards. Under OD&D rules, I can do it in an hour or two. Under 3E, I am looking at 3x that, at least. Maybe less if I restrict things to just the core books, but that depends on if the players like to be also restricted to just the core books.
I don't have the time to run this adventure under 3E rules, because I don't have the time to finish writing it. Not and keep a campaign going with any momentum.
That is an example of how 3E limits the Mystara setting for me personally.
I hate to blow my own horn, but precisely that is one of the main reasons why I started the Mystara NPC Catalogue thread, the Treasure Chest thread and other threads meant to pool fan resources for everyone to use. I wish more of the forum users would contribute just a few posts each. It would make a lot of difference to all us over-worked DMs! :D
:-) Jesper
How much would you pay (let's say in US$) for a hard-cover 3E or 3.5E re-release of the Known World?
It depends:
Assuming that the book is of decent quality, and isn't a complete hack-job...
If the 3e content was so overwhelming as to make the book essentially useless with another system, or was nearly a word-for-word restatting of a previously issued product (like the 2e Karameikos and Glantri boxes were of GAZ1 and GAZ3) I wouldn't buy it.
If the 3e content is there, but there is a significant amount of useful content that is system neutral (think of the recently published Blackmoor campaign setting) I'd probably be willing to pay ~$25 for it. This might require me to wait for awhile and pick it up in the bargain bins or on ebay.
If there was almost no 3e content (think of the new CSIO hardback) or the book was entirely system neutral (think of the recent Arduin book) or if the book was statted for a game more compatable with 1e/OD&D (like Hackmaster or Castles & Crusades) I'd buy it pretty much without regard for the price.
R.A.
I recently found out that "Indie" music is not, in fact, some kind of regae-like music from India (
And it made me think: if music enthusiasts can somehow record a cd and sell e.g. 30,000 copies to a small network of fans that appreciate that sort of thing, what (apart from the legal rights) keeps Mystara fans from re-releasing our beloved setting? I know a team of writers and editors would need to be established, a publisher and printer found, artwork selected and we would need somewhere to sell the book like Amazon.com or something. But my point is: could it not be done without leading to financial ruin for those involved?
How much would you pay (let's say in US$) for a hard-cover 3E or 3.5E re-release of the Known World? (to begin with, let's worry about Hollow World and Savage Coast later :D )
:-) Jesper
Jesper,
Sorry to burst your bubble, but... the Mystara setting is trademarked and copyrighted, and owned lock, stock, and barrel, by Wizards of the Coast, a.k.a. Hasbro. Any attempt to publish and sell Mystara products yourself, or by anyone not licensed to publish and sell such products, would end in a very ugly way in court.
Wizards actively supports the free posting of new Mystara materials on the web in these kinds of forums (this is their official company site, after all, and they own anything you post here, just look at the TOS), and on the Vaults of Pandius (the free use of Mystara which WotC allows), but to actually publish a physical book, or even a PDF, and then attempt to *sell* it... well, that's another matter altogether, and you would quickly be responding to a cease & desist. And even had the money to take it to court you would lose, because that is the law (which, being a writer and creator of intellectual property myself, I fully support).
Right now the only company that has licensed the right to publish Mystara-based products is Kenzer & Company, as part of its blanket license to publish D&D/AD&D products under the HackMaster system. I suppose it is possible to license Mystara, as WotC has licensed out Ravenloft and Gamma World, but you would certainly have to pony up some cash first... Immortals know, the thought had crossed my mind, but I don't have that kind of cash.
Legal rights costs vary, but in this industry, for a property from WotC, I'd imagine you are looking at around several thousand dollars at signing, plus 10% retail at least. Then you've got your writing costs, editing costs, art costs, layout costs, printing costs, shipping costs, storage costs, sales costs, marketing costs, and overhead. Right now the market is very soft, and you'd be lucky to sell maybe 5,000 copies; more likely, around 2,000. If you were to do a standard start-up book like, say, Dave Arneson's Blackmoor, you are looking at a 240 page hardback retailing at $35. You would get paid $14 per unit by the distributors. Say you sell 2,000 units (that's about right for a d20 product right now, and it would have to be d20 to be licensed from WotC). That's $28,000. 10% is $2,800, plus say $5,000 down on the license means after licensing costs and fees you are looking at around $20,000. A 240 page book is about 240,000 words, so at $0.03 per word you are looking at $7,200 for the writer, and $0.015 per word for editing another $3,600 for the editor, which leaves $9,200. For art, figure one full page in six, or 40 pages at $250/page, plus $1,000 for a pro cover, for another $2000 minimum, down to $7,200. The cost of layout is about the same as editing, down to $3,600. So you are down to $3,600 before you even print the sucker... and you are looking at about $6 per unit printing costs, at 2,000 units, for $12,000 printing. You are now in the hole $8,400... and you haven't figured in cost of sales, marketing, advertising, shipping, or storage...
And that's just some quick math...
Right now the only company that has licensed the right to publish Mystara-based products is Kenzer & Company, as part of its blanket license to publish D&D/AD&D products under the HackMaster system. I suppose it is possible to license Mystara, as WotC has licensed out Ravenloft and Gamma World, but you would certainly have to pony up some cash first... Immortals know, the thought had crossed my mind, but I don;t ahve that kind of cash. (^_^)
Do you have any idea how much money a lisence for Mystara would cost? Given the general apparent lack of interest from other publishers, that would probably mean it would go relatively cheap. Also, Wizards would probably rather want to make a few bucks on the lisence than none at all. Would be interesting to find out how much money would be involved.
Also, would there be separate lisences for Red Steel, The Known World, the Hollow World and Mystara or would they be a one package deal?
OTOH, if we are talking about pdf products written for fans anyway, we might aswell stick with putting them on the Vault and let anyone enjoy them for free.
Would be fun to hold a new hard cover Mystara book in my hands though....
Håvard
Do you have any idea how much money a lisence for Mystara would cost? Given the general apparent lack of interest from other publishers, that would probably mean it would go relatively cheap. Also, Wizards would probably rather want to make a few bucks on the lisence than none at all. Would be interesting to find out how much money would be involved.
I might be valuing the license high, but remember, it's now Hasbro, not just Wizards of the Coast, but I'd say $5,000 + 10% is about right. Lower % with a higher amount on signing perhaps. they'd want more up front from a new, untested company, of course. And that's even if you could really get one now; I'm not sure it is possible any more... there's a whole new series of management in place than since White Wolf's Ravenloft and KenzerCo's HackMaster license.
Also, would there be separate lisences for Red Steel, The Known World, the Hollow World and Mystara or would they be a one package deal?
I'd imagine it would be a package deal; that's what my estimated cost was based on.
OTOH, if we are talking about pdf products written for fans anyway, we might aswell stick with putting them on the Vault and let anyone enjoy them for free.
Would be fun to hold a new hard cover Mystara book in my hands though....
Håvard
I can agree with both sentiments. I'm very intrigued to see what will happen with the HackWurld of Mystaros; as its appeal cuts across several markets (Mystara, HackMAster, D&D, etc) I'm hoping for bigger numbers than I projected for a straight-up d20 System Mystara product. Note that the d20 System market has REALLY tanked in the last year... it's been a slaughter for the d20 companies. Really ugly...
The only way to do Mystara on its own would be to develop it as a game system and setting, with a core player's rulebook, game master's guide, monster book, world book, gazetteers, adventure modules, novels, and so forth; build an entire new line. To do it right you need to start with $50,000 in the bank, not counting salaries... I keep hoping to win the lottery some day. Then it will happen, I guarantee it...
I might be valuing the license high, but remember, it's now Hasbro, not just Wizards of the Coast, but I'd say $5,000 + 10% is about right. Lower % with a higher amount on signing perhaps. they'd want more up front from a new, untested company, of course. And that's even if you could really get one now; I'm not sure it is possible any more... there's a whole new series of management in place than since White Wolf's Ravenloft and KenzerCo's HackMaster license.
Thanks for the figures, that is a bit more cash than I have just laying around at the moment, but nice to know. Any reason why WotC wouldnt lisence out worlds these days though? Like I said, must make more sense for them to make a few bucks than just sitting on the lisence. I suppose if they saw the setting as a threat to the market for FR, Eberron or whatnot, but I cant imagine Mystara being considered much of a threat to those giants.
I'd imagine it would be a package deal; that's what my estimated cost was based on.
I hope they keep it that way too. It would be bad if Mystara was being fragmented more, especially with Blackmoor being separated from Mystara with the ZGG lisence now. That separation is much less dramatic than say making the Savage Coast a separate lisence though...
I can agree with both sentiments. I'm very intrigued to see what will happen with the HackWurld of Mystaros; as its appeal cuts across several markets (Mystara, HackMAster, D&D, etc) I'm hoping for bigger numbers than I projected for a straight-up d20 System Mystara product. Note that the d20 System market has REALLY tanked in the last year... it's been a slaughter for the d20 companies. Really ugly...
One of the problems with the D20 market originally though, was that the market was swamped with low quality products. Alot of the companies behind those companies are now gone, though I hope the producers of high quality products will make it somehow. The 3.5 upgrade also seems to have hurt independent D20 producers more than WotC.
Interesting point about the Hackwurlde of Mystaros and its potentially wide appeal. I have high hopes for that book aswell, and I'd like to see it pave the ground for more Mystara products for Hackmaster and perhaps non-Hackmaster products aswell.
The only way to do Mystara on its own would be to develop it as a game system and setting, with a core player's rulebook, game master's guide, monster book, world book, gazetteers, adventure modules, novels, and so forth; build an entire new line. To do it right you need to start with $50,000 in the bank, not counting salaries... I keep hoping to win the lottery some day. Then it will happen, I guarantee it...
Yeah. Buying the lisence of Mystara and then show out a bunch of low quality products would be rather pointless wouldnt it. Enough resources to back up the product would be required. I guess I'd better start buying lottery tickets too then!
Håvard
Note: All 3rd-4th hand info, gleaned from similiar discussions on the darksun & planescape forums.
R.A.