I am currently running a campaign in Darkon that takes places after Azalin's disappearance. Can you tell me in which of the S&S publications I can find information about the realm? (And if the info presented is worth buying the entire book, of course!)
I own some of the S&S products, but the info presented there wasn't what I am searching for... *Thinking of descriptions of the cities, the governments during the Shrouded Years, a Darkon timeline etc.*
...Yeah, I know that I should have bought the Gaz 2 already, but I am still undecided if it would really be helpful...
What do you think?
Thanks,
Rafael
The campaign setting will give you an overall view of darkon that could be enough to lead a campaign if you have a lot of imagination. And you have the side advantage to have an overview of all the world
But the Gazetter say to you exactly what is in each city, the map of darkon and the whats going on behind the scene (without forgetting the stats of azalin).
So its up to you to see what you whant.
The novel I Stradh: the War with Azalin is not the greatest of the line but has some good information about the creation of the realm and possible insights on how to run the cores favorite lich. Bleak House (the 2E boxed set) also has a large section on the western port Mauritrius Bay (sp?)
Neither compares with Gaz II though. Yes thats a hint. ;)
-Eric Gorman
That, and door-to-door salesmen don't always give an accurate description of their product...
We all have our biases. In this case, probably individual domains.
The 2nd Edition resource book Domains of Dread (or was it Darkness?) is quite useful for this, as it is set in a world where Azalin is gone and the various Kargat factions are trying to assert their power over the vast and suddenly-kingless domain. Many of these Kargat persona are featured in Gaz2 but for the best lowdown you'd want to check out DoD.
One final note: throughout the ages and editions, Azalin has no fewer than two imp familiars (Skeever and Squalimous) and three vassliches (Balipur and Werner Ruscheider, and Yako Wormoff). If you're going to set a campaign in a time when the master's hands are off the wheel, these characters may make for very interesting encounters, each with their own strong motivations...
It also really depends on how long after the disappearance of Azalin your campaign is taking place. If it's five years or more (ie: the effective "present-day" of Ravenloft), Gazetteer II is the way to go. If it's much more before that, however (ie: before his reappearance), then you'll have to go further back, ie: to the 2nd Ed. module "Death Unchained" and its two sequels.
Actually, I altered the story *a bit*. The Necropolis is in the far east, and Azalin is gone for more than 15 years now.
*MY PLAYERS: YOU READ THIS - YOUR CHARACTER MARRIES AN OLIFANT*
After Azalin's sudden disappereance *he got imprsioned the plane of Ash*, the demon who caught him seeks to occupy his place by getting control over a local Baron (from the Barony of Korst, named Pascal in my campaign) and as the heroes can prevent this, by gaining the body of Vlad Drakov.
The campaign, now at its 2nd adventure, is supposed to cover about 10 parts, including some of my personal all time D&D favs like the Greyhawkian Restenford modules, which are supposed to be set on Darkon's small western shore...
So, I'll have to alter most of people's habits and attitudes, relgion etc. to fit in with what I think a RL campaign should include...
The 2nd Edition resource book Domains of Dread (or was it Darkness?) is quite useful for this, as it is set in a world where Azalin is gone and the various Kargat factions are trying to assert their power over the vast and suddenly-kingless domain. Many of these Kargat persona are featured in Gaz2 but for the best lowdown you'd want to check out DoD.
One final note: throughout the ages and editions, Azalin has no fewer than two imp familiars (Skeever and Squalimous) and three vassliches (Balipur and Werner Ruscheider, and Yako Wormoff). If you're going to set a campaign in a time when the master's hands are off the wheel, these characters may make for very interesting encounters, each with their own strong motivations...
This is exactly the info I am searching for! Will look to get my hands on it as soon as possible!
-------------------------------------------
Thank you all! You may really have helped me to make my campaign better!
In short, if you're buying Domains of Dread solely for its information on Darkon, you'll be sorely disappointed.
Before spending an hour or two of wages on Gaz II, I'd suggest you pop into your local game store and flip through the book first. It won't take that long.
That's not possible in my case... In Germany, where I currently live, D&D is stone dead - there have been few efforts to establish FR and RL, but they were overwhelmed by the *German D&D* called Das schwarze Auge (~The Black Eye).
Being a D&D DM in Germany means to seek for months for players and to rely almost entirely on English resources you order via the web... An average gaming store normally hasn't even the most *mainstream* rpg products, like, let's say, FRs *City of the Spider Queen*...
If I can affort it (and find the rare modules
) I'll purchase the Gaz 2 and Death Unchained... About Domains of Dread I am still a bit unsure... Will look what I can find...Besides, are there any adventures out there (besides the ones that were mentioned earlier) that take place in Darkon... *I like the setting so much that I may lead my current Taladas group there for some short horror trip...*
And when you have to Zatoichi your way around Ravenloft, then reviews of products by forum users like this actually does mean something. I'll have to remind myself of this next time I praise or raze a product...
I would go in-depth with my opinions of Gaz 2 but I'm biased for the reason that I believe Darkon's entry was, for the most part, mindless dribble due to what I feel was an attempt to further elevate a domain that just didn't need further elevation. Sure it's a large domain when it comes to land mass, but it's social/economical impact on the other domains isn't really worth mentioning. And even if it was, then there should've been more (text) space put aside to properly delve into it.
And a navy of six (was it?) ships? Why only six? Why mention this fact at all then?
If Darkon is supposed to be a "super power", then treat it as such.
That said, Darkon should've been a sourcebook unto itself, imo.
If it impacts Ravenloft as such...
Then again, maybe I just read/remember it wrong.
Feel free to correct me, anybody.
Sure it's a large domain when it comes to land mass, but it's social/economical impact on the other domains isn't really worth mentioning. And even if it was, then there should've been more (text) space put aside to properly delve into it.
Darkon's cultural impact?
Gaz II, pg. 25: "No doubt this cultural fear contributes to Darkon's apathy toward its neighbors and the failure of its culture to spread throughout the Core."
Pg. 38: "...Darkonian culture is barely felt beyond its borders."
Out of curiosity, how much more space did you need on this topic?
And a navy of six (was it?) ships? Why only six? Why mention this fact at all then?
Pop quiz:
1) How many major ports does Darkon's navy need to guard?
2) How big is the largest navy Darkon needs to worry about?
3) How much energy is Azalin putting into colonizing the seas' islands?
4) Does Gaz II indicate the existence of any additional methods by which Darkon monitors its shores?
If Darkon is supposed to be a "super power", then treat it as such.
Darkon is a super power... in a small world. It is thus designed to scale.
That said, Darkon should've been a sourcebook unto itself, imo.
Gotcha. Darkon is undeserving of "further elevation," but should have used twice the space to do just that.
(As a note: Darkon already had a sourcebook unto itself... which was less detailed.)
Then again, maybe I just read/remember it wrong.
It appears you did.
1) How many major ports does Darkon's navy need to guard?
A six-ship navy is not nearly enough to patrol the coastline of Darkon, thus defeating its purpose of existance.
Azalin, and any of his more militant lackeys, would object to such a half-assed approach (the idea of a six ship navy)...
2) How big is the largest navy Darkon needs to worry about?
Question is, how paranoid is Azalin and those he has placed in power (of an attack by sea)?
Darkon is a super power... in a small world. It is thus designed to scale.
Fair enough.
Gotcha. Darkon is undeserving of "further elevation," but should have used twice the space to do just that.
Not, you didn't get me.
I quote myself:
"If it impacts Ravenloft as such..."
Simply put, this is me doubting Darkon's actual impact in the Ravenloft world; this is me criticizing the Darkon write-up in Gaz 2 (the fact that I feel it was written in the attempt of glorifying Darkon).
This is me saying what I did.
Let me take a guess here...you wrote the Darkon section of Gaz 2?
A six-ship navy is not nearly enough to patrol the coastline of its motherland,
Correct; which is why the navy isn't the only thing guarding the coasts, and why the ships spend their time guarding each of Darkon's numerous -- read "two" -- ports worthy of note.
let alone defend it...
Defend it against... what, again?
Azalin, and any of his more militant lackeys, would object to such a half-assed approach (of a six ship navy).
And you base this on... what?
Another quick quiz: In the Dead Man's Campaign, how intrinsic was Darkon's army to the Falkovnian defeats?
"If it impacts Ravenloft as such..."
Simply put, this is me doubting Darkon's actual impact in the Ravenloft world; this is me criticizing the Darkon write-up in Gaz 2.
Well, let's pretend that's the case.
What about it do you doubt?
Defend it against... what, again?
An attack by sea.
From who?
The hypothetical/inevitable enemy of Darkon.
Maybe Falkovnia basing a navy from Lamordia, through one of its one-sided "deals".
I dunno...Azalin saw enough wisdom to create a navy, so I assume there was something behind that decision...(or would justification of its navy have taken up too much space in Gaz 2?)
Well, let's pretend that's the case.
Please don't patronize me...
Correct; which is why the navy isn't the only thing guarding the coasts, and why the ships spend their time guarding each of Darkon's numerous -- read "two" -- ports worthy of note.
Ships sail (though they do sit idle at times and defend, I understand this)...battlements/fortifications defend ports.
Granted, the cultural level of Darkon limits such battlements/fortifications, but I'm sure archer towers and heavy siege equipment could substitute cannons just fine.
An immobile navy just seems too...non-Darkon.
An attack by sea.
From who?
The hypothetical/inevitable enemy of Darkon.
Ah, yes, let's construct and staff a massive navy to battle a hypothetical concept. What is this, the Ebon Gargoyles?
Maybe Falkovnia basing a navy from Lamordia, through one of its one-sided "deals".
Yeah, 'cause Falkovnia is known for its successful diplomacy.
I dunno...Azalin saw enough wisdom to create a navy, so I assume there was something behind that decision...(or would justification of its navy have taken up too much space in Gaz 2?)
If you don't want me to patronize you, don't base arguments on ignorance. The justification for the navy is in the book (see pages 14, 38, and 123).
Ah, yes, let's construct and staff a massive navy to battle a hypothetical concept.
I'm not talking massive, I'm talking non-pitiful...huge difference.
Yeah, 'cause Falkovnia is known for its successful diplomacy.
Heh.
Fear is Falkovnia's key... ;)
If you don't want me to patronize you, don't base arguments on ignorance. The justification for the navy is in the book (and I've mentioned it in this thread).
I hear ya...I just think that justification is weak and non-befitting a king of Azalin's nature...
Perhaps I might recommend easing your boredom with a touch of light reading? Such as the book you're consistently getting wrong?
(Psst.: "Guarding a port" and "immobile" =/= synonyms. Put a thesaurus on the reading list as well, perhaps?)
Pop quiz: Raiders/smuggler comes in, hits the port, and flees.
Can the fort chase them?
Can the fort check their cargo on the way in?
Perhaps I might recommend easing your boredom with a touch of light reading? Such as the book you're consistently getting wrong?
(Psst.: "Guarding a port" and "immobile" =/= synonyms. Put a thesaurus on the reading list as well, perhaps?)
Funny...really. :D
Pop quiz: Raiders/smuggler comes in, hits the port, and flees.
Can the fort chase them?
Can the fort check their cargo on the way in?
No, the navy chases them...once they are out of range of the tower's attacks.
No, the port officials check incoming cargo.
I'm not talking massive, I'm talking non-pitiful...huge difference.
So, outnumbering one's foes by A) three-to-one, and B) outgunning them too is pitiful.
Whuuutever, slappy.
No, the navy chases them...once they are out of range of the tower's attacks.
Correct. To which I might add, "duh."
And which fortifications are those? I mean, at the time of Gaz II's publication, Darkon has had a kingly six years -- five without a central power on the throne -- to create fortifications for its eastern coast.
No, the port officials check incoming cargo.
Actually, as often as not, the Kargat check incoming cargo (once again, see Gaz II).
It's called reading comprehension, slappy.
So, outnumbering one's foes by A) three-to-one, and B) outgunning them too is pitiful.
Three-to-one?
What foes are we talking about here?
And barring a ships' broadside, outgunning is only half the battle...
Three-to-one?
What foes are we talking about here?
I'll give you a hint:
READ THE BOOK!
Correct. To which I might add, "duh."
And having your only line of defense go out and chase down the enemy is brilliant tactical thinking.
Forget about predictability, goose chases and the like...
And if it is so written (I'll check later), then Darkon's ports could be taken overnight.
In the effort to polish Darkon, it's appears obvious (to myself if nobody else) that not much thought was put into the intelligence behind its navy.
A soft spot with Darkon's author (whomever that is)?
Maybe...
>also, see below<
And which fortifications are those? I mean, at the time of Gaz II's publication, Darkon has had a kingly six years -- five without a central power on the throne -- to create fortifications for its eastern coast.
Fortifications that were there to compliment the navy.
To create one and not the other is just lame (as fortifications would actually be constructed first)...be that suggested, or written.
Actually, as often as not, the Kargat check incoming cargo (once again, see Gaz II).
Kargat, port officials...whatever.
Point is, the immobile navy doesn't check incoming cargo. "Spot checks", yes. But not all incoming cargo.
I'll give you a hint:
READ THE BOOK!
Yes, it is fairly obvious that I need to re-read the book...if not to prevent me from further making an ass of myself, then to properly criticize the Darkon section. ;) :D
Not much considering the population of 117,300 that is the country, the length of its coastline (the entire upper half of Ravenloft), not to mention the lack of fortifications in and around its ports (one ship guards one port!)...but this is not actually mentioned in the text that I have just read, so this is certainly debatable.
And while Darkon has no interest in colonizing the various islands, this is pretty weak...considering that pirates and smugglers "lurk among the island's countless coves and caves."
Aside from Blaustein being situated where it is.
Given the defeats handed to Vlad (Falkovnia), it is logical (militarily neccessary, I would imagine) to assume that he will revamp his plans to invade...including the possibility of an assault by sea (who's to say plans aren't in effect that a relationship between Vlad and Bluebeard has recently developed and is gearing forward? Ruffians, the likes of which inhabit Bluebeard's island, are always game when promised a fat percentage of booty!). This logic justifies the need for a navy...a navy of some size beyond that of six caravels.
Creating a navy to combat sea stalkers? Why waste money and resources when you can put out a pelt bounty to sailors (ships manned by various mixes of mercenaries, adventurers, and those Kargat that just like the thrill of the hunt) that'll cut provincial cost to a controlled minimum? More money for the barons that way, bragging rights amongst their peers, maybe even the regal nod of approval at next season's masquerade ball...
Creating a navy to defend the land against landslides, and suggestions of a "malign intelligence"? While the latter is certainly worthy of an in-depth naval investigation (coupled, of course, with a likewise investigation of the land), it hardly justifies the creation of a royal navy. Actual proof of this intelligence is, of course, a different matter...and the resulting move would probably be more than six ships...
All the same and all points made above aside, this lack of a navy (or a growing navy) does give us a potential "adventure hook"...but I sincerely doubt this is the intentions of the author.
Maybe I'm not such an ignorant fool, on this particular matter anyway, after all?
I'll settle for half, personally... :D
Anyway, enough's enough.
I'll keep my mouth shut on the subject now, and apologize for veering from the nature of this thread.
Sorry.
P.S.: I still can't find where this three-to-one enemy is mentioned in the book. I'll read it again, but if you get to it before me, then please explain.
First of all: Ravenloft has never been about invasions and massive conquests. It should mean both on land and sea. So with that in mind, does Darkon needs a huge navy? No. And also why couldn't Azalin simply raise the border which would mean hordes of drownlings rise from the sea to slaughter the invading ships like the skeletons slaughter the Falkovnians?
Two: Remember we're talking about the sea of Sorrows here, not the Mediteranean. The ships wouldn't probably go too far from the coasts. If they did, they could get lost in the water and arrive in Markovia or worst! Or they would simply risk facing a ghost ship or two. So this probably slows down traffic within the sea, and thus Darkon doesn't need a big navy.
And if I remember, you, Crimson Ghost, prefer higher level campaigns. So if you want a big Darkonian navy facing a Lamordian/Falkovnian alliance, go for it.
First of all: Ravenloft has never been about invasions and massive conquests.
Dead Man's Campaign wouldn't be considered an invasion or massive conquest?
Drakov invaded Darkon four times by the time Falkovnia was thirty-two years of age...
It should mean both on land and sea. So with that in mind, does Darkon needs a huge navy?
Once again, I'm not talking huge navy, I'm talking non-pitiful. And six caravels, spread out like they are, is a pitiful royal navy considering the factors I mentioned above.
And also why couldn't Azalin simply raise the border which would mean hordes of drownlings rise from the sea to slaughter the invading ships like the skeletons slaughter the Falkovnians?
He certainly could, and probably would, as the leaders of Falkovnia know all too well due to their experience in the various campaigns of conquest.
Ditch the dead overboard, and club the climbers...it's all part of the training these days. :D
Two: Remember we're talking about the sea of Sorrows here, not the Mediteranean. The ships wouldn't probably go too far from the coasts.
Exactly my point.
With a navy of six ships...three patrolling the Nocturnal Sea, two in the Sea of Sorrows, and one in Martira Bay...it's just not enough to protect the coast against the potential of invasion by sea.
A half dozen sloops would be a match for Darkon's royal navy of a half dozen caravels...Darkon's coast is taken.
And if I remember, you, Crimson Ghost, prefer higher level campaigns.
Buh?
I...don't mind them...
With a navy of six ships...three patrolling the Nocturnal Sea, two in the Sea of Sorrows, and one in Martira Bay...it's just not enough to protect the coast against the potential of invasion by sea.
Darkon navy doesn't seem an offensive but a defensive force against smuggler. Smuggler that principaly infest the the sea of sorrows.
Making an armada and attacking the smugglers would be a far less cost-effetive solution than rebuild after the passage of the smugglers. So a little Navy would have to watch the principal ports, and the remain of the coast, i higly doubt that Azalin really care.
Now, suppose that pirate gain the control of the coast, they are now on Darkon ground, and are less than a match for Darkon army (or others things that Azalin can send).
And note that at least, trade isn t really important by sea way in Ravenloft. So the justification to build a big fleet with costly caravel (a ship is after all a big investement) are little.
Dead Man's Campaign wouldn't be considered an invasion or massive conquest?
Well... By reading the Gaz II, and specifically Azalin's comments on Falkovnia, one can guess that he knows ENOUGH to tell that Drakov is NEVER going to win (hey, those 25 ranks in Knowledge [Ravenloft/plane] should be a little useful! ;)) in ANY invasion.
So, why bother?
Azalin didn't even entered the Alliance agains Falkovnian invasion, though he should be the most interested in it (after all, he's been the most invaded... ;)). But he didn't.
Why?
Let's analyze history.
There have been some major "invasions" in the Demiplane history (for all I know):
Dead Man Campaign (I, II, III, IV): Falkovnian soldiers butchered by undead.
Widow's Massacre: Falkovnian soldiers butchered by toxines.
Dementlieu's invasion: Falkovnian soldiers butchering themselves.
Lamordia's invasion: Falkovnian soldiers butchered by gunpowder.
Malocchio's invasion of Sithicus: Invidian and Falkovnian soldiers butchered by shadows.
...
As you noticed, the standard invasion from Falkovnia is: [insert Domain name here]'s invasion: Flakovnian soldiers butchered by [insert Domain feature here].
So, again, why should Azalin bother to defend against an invasion?
Darkonian soldiers are there just for two reason: keep people happy (they are feeling protected), deal with the occasional "simple" menace, like kobolds.
A Drakov/Aubrecker alliance? HIGLY improbable. The old baron is dying, and the daughter is a WOMAN (Drakov is a sciovinist...).
An invasion from who? Illithid from Bluetspur?
For all I know, Ravenloft has a "status quo" that only major events can change (read: "Gwydion"), and a succesful Falkovnian invasion would be "breaking the rule" of the punishment Drakov is receiving.
So, as long as Drakov keeps being the crazy stubborn warmonger he is, all the Demiplana should feel... "safe". :D
Well... By reading the Gaz II, and specifically Azalin's comments on Falkovnia, one can guess that he knows ENOUGH to tell that Drakov is NEVER going to win (hey, those 25 ranks in Knowledge [Ravenloft/plane] should be a little useful! ;)) in ANY invasion.
Playing Azalin with DM information would be doing just the same as over-hyping Darkon in Ravenloft products.
And even if you did do that (afterall, we all play how we play), who's to say it has to be Drakov the decisive victor? Maybe his alliance with X fell apart at the apex of conquest...leaving Vlad not just a loser, but a bitter loser (this ties things in well, canon-wise, given Vlad's "curse")...and X the actual victor.
More simply, Azalin is too smart to make such assumptions of his enemies, as egotistical as he may be.
There have been some major "invasions" in the Demiplane history (for all I know):
Dead Man Campaign (I, II, III, IV): Falkovnian soldiers butchered by undead.
Widow's Massacre: Falkovnian soldiers butchered by toxines.
Dementlieu's invasion: Falkovnian soldiers butchering themselves.
Lamordia's invasion: Falkovnian soldiers butchered by gunpowder.
Malocchio's invasion of Sithicus: Invidian and Falkovnian soldiers butchered by shadows.
...
As you noticed, the standard invasion from Falkovnia is: [insert Domain name here]'s invasion: Flakovnian soldiers butchered by [insert Domain feature here].
Falkovnia is hardly the only power in Ravenloft with ambitious tendencies... ;)
I only mentioned them (Falkovnia) as an example because I think Vlad's invasions would be freshest in Darkonians' minds, and given the relentless nature of Vlad and his attacks it is logical to assume that military measures, both offensive and defensive, need to be put in place by those holding power in Darkon.
These measures, of course, wouldn't be limited strictly to Falkovnia and its military's inclinations. These measures would be the attempt at foolproofing enemy plans in general...including those of the unknown enemies', who have been studying Darkon's military response (and history) from the get-go...
And that's really one of the points I've been trying (unsuccessfully I might add
) to make.When thinking of Darkon, think like a Darkonian...not like a fan.
Six ships is not an indication of "nautical power". Not without providing thoughful tactics and statistics anyway. And to do that properly, you need to expand the navy at least double again.
I'd suggest low to mid twenties with an actual variety of vessels. Two at all times in port on port guard duty (compounded by, yes, fortifications), with the available patrolling the coastline, especially northern, capable of A) backing each other up (as sister ships), and B) performing extra duties such as spot checks, naval investigations, several will be docked for repairs and upgrades, others will be sent to guard those merchant ships that do traverse the trade routes on behalf of Darkon (to Lamordia), several more will be lost to sea, others sent with the singular task of hunting down specific pirates and smugglers (these would be Darkon's privateers)...so that makes the need for more ships even greater.
Too much for you, or too little for a king?
P.S.: The above are, for the moment, mere and quick suggestions of what I think Darkon's navy might be and do. Given proper thought, change is inevitable...
Playing Azalin with DM information would be doing just the same as over-hyping Darkon in Ravenloft products.
Don't see your point, Azalin is the one who take the decision to make the navy, but we should not use his personnality and sheme of think write in the DM side things to make him take this decision????
And even if you did do that (afterall, we all play how we play), who's to say it has to be Drakov the decisive victor? Maybe his alliance with X fell apart at the apex of conquest...leaving Vlad not just a loser, but a bitter loser (this ties things in well, canon-wise, given Vlad's "curse")...and X the actual victor.
More simply, Azalin is too smart to make such assumptions of his enemies, as egotistical as he may be.
Azalin have the better intelligence service of all the core, he didn't have to make assumption, he only have to read report.
Falkovnia is hardly the only power in Ravenloft with ambitious tendencies... ;)
When thinking of Darkon, think like a Darkonian...not like a fan.
Azalin intelligence service didn't register for the moment the fact that falkovnia had made an alliance or others domain attempts to attack on a naval basis. And I highly doubt that the darkonian really fear or care for the sea when 95% of the trade and travel is on a ground basis.
Six ships is not an indication of "nautical power". Not without providing thoughful tactics and statistics anyway. And to do that properly, you need to expand the navy at least double again.
Of course, six ships is not an indication of "nautical power". But why Azalin would want a "nautical power" to protect his ports against two or three pirates raiders? Perhaps in your campaing you had a domain with a great armada in one of the two sea and Azalin would need a naval force to protect his borders, but it isn't the case since there is no naval power in all the ravenloft world and the sea ways are not important at all.
Don't see your point, Azalin is the one who take the decision to make the navy, but we should not use his personnality and sheme of think write in the DM side things to make him take this decision????
I meant by making Azalin omnipotent when it comes to the complete understanding of the gaming nature/mechanics of the other darklords.
Azalin have the better intelligence service of all the core, he didn't have to make assumption, he only have to read report.
"Great King, Falkovnia can never beat Darkon in battle...the past dictates such.
Yours in humble service,
Kargat agent #703"
Have that spy killed, if such a report is ever submitted...
Azalin intelligence service didn't register for the moment the fact that falkovnia had made an alliance or others domain attempts to attack on a naval basis. And I highly doubt that the darkonian really fear or care for the sea when 95% of the trade and travel is on a ground basis.
Expanding the boundaries of Darkon, and the protection of such existing boundaries is not on Azalin's "to do list"?
"Bah, it's just water..."
Hmm...that's odd.
The lich must be getting soft in his old age...
Of course, six ships is not an indication of "nautical power".
According to Gaz II, it is.
But why Azalin would want a "nautical power" to protect his ports against two or three pirates raiders?
First of all, that number is questionable.
Secondly, a navy is not created just for immediate, or, tangible threat(s).
Have you ever seen a crowd scatter, or act on their (second to) best behaviour, when a paddy wagon rolls by?
Cops bank on presence, and so too does military forces such as a (true) navy...
Perhaps in your campaing you had a domain with a great armada in one of the two sea and Azalin would need a naval force to protect his borders, but it isn't the case since there is no naval power in all the ravenloft world and the sea ways are not important at all.
But they can be, and anybody (especially one with numerous advisors) with an intelligence score of 24, combined with a wisdom score of 14 would know that... ;)
Azalin may not be omniscient but he knows more about the planar fabric of RL than anyone else in the core. With Stradh he came closer to a magical escape than vitually anyone else in the core. (Yes yes Soth found a different way out and Vecna escaped too). IMO its not unreasonable for Azalin to dismiss Vlad as a hack who will never be a real threat. Azalin doesn't loose sleep worrying about the actions of Drakov.
And when Drakov stirs he isn't dealt with through conventional forces. IMO this is not too far off from how an invasion would play out. "He's attacking again? By the sea? What a waste of timber. Well we'll raise up the zombie wall along the shore and that's that. Hmmm. Might as change the memories of a captain or two too - waste not want not. Now where was I in this experiment"
What does Azalin really have to fear? Not too much. Not ouster from another Darklord. IMO a group of high level adventurers/assasins and a betrayal of high level Kargat/nobles are the primary threats he needs to concern himslef with. A big navy helps with neither.
-Eric Gorman
Playing Azalin with DM information would be doing just the same as over-hyping Darkon in Ravenloft products.
If I said what I said about Drakov, Tristen Hiregaard or any other Darklord, I'd be completely with you.
It is Azalin-freakin'-Rex (a.k.a. "I-spent-five-years-one-with-my-land") we're talking about, probably the creature who understood about EVERYTHING in the Demiplane's mechanics.
He knows about Domanis and Darklords.
He knows about the Mists.
He knows there are other worlds.
He knows about the CURSES (read decently the variuos Gazetteer, and you'll find this out quite easily).
In fact, if you ever read Azalin's journal entry in the RLCS/RLPHB, you'd notice he (this is an ASSUMPTION, mind you...) GAVE UP escaping Ravenloft, and he's looking for a "Demiplane-shaking" event.
And even if you did do that (afterall, we all play how we play), who's to say it has to be Drakov the decisive victor? Maybe his alliance with X fell apart at the apex of conquest...leaving Vlad not just a loser, but a bitter loser (this ties things in well, canon-wise, given Vlad's "curse")...and X the actual victor.
Ufff...
All right let's examine Drakov possible alliances.
Dementlieu: fops with not taste for battle, who use girly weapons (gunpowder) and do not use a good broadsword instead.
No alliance. Drakov has "honor".
Invidia: already allied, but Malocchio is too focused on hunting Vistani and breaking free of his curse.
Lamordia: a dying old man or a WOMAN... Good choice to make when you are a sciovinist warmonger.
Darkon: Good laugh.
Borca: a pathetical man and a WOMAN (see Lamordia...).
So, who'd be Drakov ally? The aforementioned Illithid from Bluetspur, I guess...
"Great King, Falkovnia can never beat Darkon in battle...the past dictates such.
Good sarcasm.
Maybe just a "Drakov killed another skilled general. He's an idiot."
Oh, and... He doesn't have to have his subordinates to tell him. He KNOWS Darkov will never win.
Expanding the boundaries of Darkon, and the protection of such existing boundaries is not on Azalin's "to do list"?
Again: WHAT "BOUNDARIES"?!
Azalin KNOWS his "borders" are not expanding, nor they'll ever do, unless a darklord in his "neighborhood" dies.
According to Gaz II, it is.
In fact... It may be.
If you think about it, is it ever said about the nautical power of any other domain except trading boats?
Remember that travelling by sea might be even more dangerous than by land... And a navy isn't going to change anything about it. ;)
Falkovnia is hardly the only power in Ravenloft with ambitious tendencies...
Like... who?
Malocchio Aderre?
Secondly, a navy is not created just for immediate, or, tangible threat(s).
For unforeseen circustances, as HvF pointed out:
"[omissis] By the sea? What a waste of timber. Well we'll raise up the zombie wall along the shore and that's that. Hmmm. Might as change the memories of a captain or two too - waste not want not. Now where was I in this experiment"
and of course:
What does Azalin really have to fear? Not too much. Not ouster from another Darklord. IMO a group of high level adventurers/assasins and a betrayal of high level Kargat/nobles are the primary threats he needs to concern himslef with. A big navy helps with neither.
I think that's all.
Lamordia, what 3000 people can threaten Darkon's shores? Mordent, 4000, not a big threat... Falkovnia, 64000, oh now it's more serious but 2 problems,
1-No access to the sea (not even his closest ally Invidia has access) and
2-the domains who have access are downright hostile to Falkovnia except Lamordia and I doubt Drakov would ally with a woman (sorry to the women here).
Should I go on?
Now two problems here:
1-The Core (and it's population) is too small for Darkon to have a bigger navy
2-Obviously, your interpretation of Ravenloft is quite different from Canon RL as written in the Gaz.
If you want a bigger navy, quick rule: multiply the total RL population by X, and then multiply the Darkonian navy by X. It should do the trick. Let's say Darkon had a population of 1,200,000 and surrounding domains about 800,000 totals, then yes I agree with you 100%: 6 ships is hardly an effective navy. Now 15-20 ships might do the trick.
I for one, don't like the smallness of the Core but the number of warships Darkon has isn't the first thing I was looking for in the Gaz.
Who would or could be Vlad's allies (or Darkon's enemies for that matter)?
Dissidents, warmongers, and buccaneer-type people from practically (quite possibly) every domain in existance.
Why would this criminal element band under Vlad's flag?
Money, promise of land or position, a straight-up and pretty much sanctioned killing spree...so on, and so on.
Diplomatic relationships between the domains A) Isn't etched in stone (IE: unchanging), and B) The only form of contact between two domains. While this might accurately represent a relationship between two darklords, this doesn't neccessarily represent the relationship(s) between a darklord from one domain (or their parlaying lackey) and any number of people from another.
Many good points here, especially saying it like it is: me thinking a little outside the box. On some matters I agree.
I just think that if Darkon is a super power, then (again!) they should be treated as such. And that treatment would, or should, include the foresight to monopolize sea routes. And to do that, representing whatever stage of this process you like, the navy needs to be a little busier.
Granted, I glued these two pieces together a little bit hasty but as it was written it just didn't make any sense. Now, in my head, Darkon's navy is royally justified.
If someone out there really doesn't want to put any thought to Darkon's navy (and wants to back such an ill-conceived notion, as written in Gaz II), or laugh at my suggestions, then go for it...I don't really care. I just spoke out, in turn got called out, and the rest is what it was.
It's clear that I put too much thought into my Ravenloft... :D
P.S.: By all accounts taken here, Darkon is considered a super power in Ravenloft. With that the case, maybe it could've gotten better (proper) treatment being detailed independant of the Gazetteers..
You are Azalin Rex. Really what do you care if Vlad somehow manages to bring every freebooter (and the Nova Vaasi & Mordentish fleets) against you? In straight battle they can't come ashore against your "zombie wall". Love that trick. In a seige against your Ports you can erase the memories of all the adversary captains and make them think they're "moles" waiting for the signal to attack the rest of the fleet. Or just sink their own boat. Lets say Vlad and/or Bluetspur unite the rest of the core, the Amber wastes and the Verduous Lands before moving against you. How does this affect the equation? It doesn't. If they sink your fleet remember to keep a few as a replacement.
Need a big fleet for smugglers? What do you care about smugglers? Yes it irks the hell out of you that they're not paying taxes (on principle) but a good chunk of the action is already in your pocket through the Kargatane via the Kargat. Or in the alternative you could take over a good chunk of the action through the above or memory modification if it becomes necessary. Or even desirable.
What you really need is something to show the flag, keep the locals in line, help boneheads who get lost on the way to port (in RL it happens), keep an eye out for those smugglers who aren't in your pocket and be ready to move an agent or two around swiftly. You want them to do this for you so you can focus on more important matters.
Prestige? Yes, Darkon is the "superpower" of the Core. It's the largest & most populous country - possibly with the most natural resources. Its is also strongly organized and more or less well managed (from the aristocracies' point of view). But the people in the Core who matter (a list that might only include Stradh, Isolde, the Whistling Fiend, the Black Duke and Madame Eva from Azalin's view) aren't going to be impressed by the Navy. At all. The other goobers - all of them - barely count. That money is better spent elaborate shin-digs (and even better would be on the Kargat). When I want Jackie or Ivanna to notice me I'll send an incorporeal "ambassador" across their borders (closed or not) to remind them how much more pleasant things are when we all play nice.
If there is any one scenario that might cause me to loose sleep is Stradh somehow persuading a fiend to shelter assassins within a reality wrinkle. Or *that damned Carnival* with sophmoric do-gooders. What good are boats against that?
-Eric Gorman
) if only for the sake of showing that questioning canon material can sometimes be useful. The arguments everyone brought in favor of the canon version are all excellent... Yet from what I remember of Azalin's write-up in the black box, he sounds like he should be prepared for almost *anything*. Sometimes centuries in advance. Sure, there doesn't appear to be a threat on Darkon from the sea, now, but Azalin is smart enough to see that Ravenloft is anything but stable. Remember that Necropolis incident? If there doesn't appear to be a powerful sea rival today, who's to say the Mists won't unveil something to that effect tomorrow? Sparing ressources is all well and good, but six ships indeed sounds somewhat pitiful. In answer to the numerous hypothetical invasion scenarios that have been posted, notice that they all suppose Azalin to be available to deal with the threat personally. The Shrouded Years showed that is not always the case. And GazII made the excellent remark that for all his apparent omnipotence, Azalin is just one man (well, lich). Azalin appears wise enough to understand this, hence his building a secret agency of reliable minions. If an invasion was launched this instant, Azalin would deal with it easily. But what if his enemies wait for him to be crippled? Or distracted by more urgent matters? Have Death and Strahd attack Azalin at once, one from within the domain and one from without, what is the lich to do? The buccaners of Blaustein assaulting the western coast don't sound much of a threat... until you find out the buggers have an imp aboard one of their ships. And remember the 'walking tower' maneuver from Tower of Doom? Had it occured during the Requiem or the Grand Conjunction, it would have worked.
All that to say that at some point, you just can't expect to be there to deal with all the problems yourself. And when you're not, you should rely on your subordinates and give them the right tools for the job. Hence the idea of having a decent army, including navy. Also, I deduce from Azalin's plan to give Irik a "second chance to prove himself a worthy heir" (whatever that means), that he doesn't actually expect to be ruler of Darkon forever. And if his legacy must outlast him, it might as well be a strong one.
That said, I agree on all the statements given here in favor of canon material. From a certain angle, having a ridiculously small navy might even be smart. "When strong, always appear weak". Azalin is strong.
I see you dance the politician's dance... :D
My answer was motivated not so much by the issue at hand, but by a need to show criticism towards canon information. There's a lot of small issues, like this one, that really bug me in canon Ravenloft, among them the population of Port-a-Lucine, Darkon's memory drain, the Hiregaard family traditions or Azalin's memory-controlling powers. I'm sure everyone has his share of such gripes. Yours happen to be darkonian ships. I enjoy such friendly complaints, personally. See, just taking time to think about this 'trifle' subject gained me a better understanding of Darkon and Azalin's politics. So rants like this can actually be useful.