Kingpriests of Istar (By Chris Pierson!) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Kingpriests of Istar (By Chris Pierson!)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Dragonhelm
Jan 17, 2005 22:23:16 The Nexus has posted a new article by Dragonlance author Chris Pierson. For those who enjoyed his Kingpriest Trilogy, you may be interested in his new article - Kingpriests of Istar.

Enjoy!
#2
zombiegleemax
Jan 18, 2005 0:34:57 My big problem with that KingPriest timeline is that...

1) From it's very beginning, Istar and the KingPriests come across as corrupt and evil. While there may be some truth to that by the end, at some point, in order for Istar to have gained the following it got from the four corners of Ansalon (and let's be clear that everyone from Solamnia, Ergoth, Qualinesti, Tarsis, Silvanesti and all lands in between) supported him. While at the end it was more out of neccesity to 'be on the right side', at some point, the KingPriest's teachings had to be pure in order to have ever done what he did.

2) kinda covered above- There was not enough time IMHO (270 years) for the Kingpriests to gain that much power over all of Ansalon. I think realistically, considering the divisions that lay upon the lands by then, about 5-600 years of Istar gaining a following amongst Krynn would be more realistic.
#3
true_blue
Jan 18, 2005 0:57:37 I have no problem with the time frame. To me, anything is practically possible, just looking at the US and how quick we became a huge power, and you are only talking about 200+ years. If you add in an elemnt like religion, its amazing just how quick people would "bow down" or accept things. Just think how much more Christianity there would be if the US came out and declared itself a pure Christan country and sculpted its ideals and everything to it. People around the world would accept it and embrace it more... at least in my opinion. But then agaibn, I dont want to get in a religion discussion. Just stating I think something like religion can add so much, especially to people who know the gods are there.

Anyways, my whole problem with the Kingpriest has always been that he did evil things. I dont care if he started out good, did good things throughout his life, etc. The man did a few blatently evil things, and I just think there is any conceivable way that Paladine would sit back and not do anything. It bothers me so much that the gods are "active" in the world, but a simple thing like telling the highest cleric of his faith that he was doing evil things seemed to be beyond his power. Also, remember he still had spells. He was able to bring Crysania back. This means he was still getting powers from Paladine.. or at least from some source.

As I've said in other threads, if the Kingpriest gets spells and powers still from his god, while doing things that grossly violates the tenets of that god, it opens up a whole new world. Clerics will be able to do basically anything they want, and I'm sure in a world where gods are active, this isnt suppose to happen.

Cam has said that there is a way that the Kingpriest still gets spells and I'm very interested to see how it comes to be. But unfortunately, I dont have high hopes for liking it. This isn't a diss, but I'm just thinking I probably won't like it. Hopefully this won't happen though. Coming up with answers that pleases everyone is a hard thing to do, and I give credit to the folks at SP for trying and still trying to keep continuity.

Personally... I thought the Kingpriest trilogy was a good read, but it was almost like reading about some totally other event than what happened in the Legends...in my opinion. It almost seemed both Kingpriests were two totally different people. Now I'm sure some people say that it was meant to be like that..and maybe a little bit I agree. But even at the end, the Kingpriest in Pierson's novels didnt seem like the same Kingpriest from Legends. Even during the same event, when bolth are talking about the same thing. Maybe some of this can be explained because they are from different people's views, but to me it just seems too weird.
#4
ferratus
Jan 18, 2005 10:49:24 My biggest complaint is that it is the Catholic church with serial numbers filed off, from an unsympathetic protestant biases and myth mixed with fact towards the institution.

But that was my complaint about Legends and the Kingpriest Trilogy, so I doubt it is going to change soon. ;) It isn't like North American/English culture is a stranger to that kind of thing.
#5
zombiegleemax
Jan 18, 2005 21:28:05 Actually, I re-read the Legends trilogy not too long ago, and I noticed that the Kingpriest doesn't *ACTUALLY* cast any spells. I could swear it was him who brought Crysannia back, but it actually wasn't. Well, it doesn't say for sure if he did or not, but evidence shows that he did in fact, *NOT* bring Crysannia back himself. Even during the Wizard's Conclave, when they sent Crysannia and Caramon back, they didn't say that only the Kingpriest was powerful enough to bring her back(which is what I could swear he said), but instead that the only place to find clerics powerful enough to bring her back could be found in that time. One Istarian cleric mentions the fact that the gift of true healing usually only appears in the very young or very old, not the main body of the clergy, but still, there were only 2 clerics powerful enough to help her. One was Elistan, who was too busy dying at the time, and the other was Crysannia, who was too busy being sorta dead at the time. ANd anyway, the wizards had another reason to send them to that time. So, there really is *NO* evidence that the Kingpriest could cast magic, at least in the Legends, and let's face it, anything said in the main series trumps things said in other sources. Besides, for all we know, the Kingpriest was casting magic, but it was arcane instead of divine. Either way, he definately maxed out Righteous Zealot.
#6
wolffenjugend_dup
Jan 18, 2005 22:11:38 You need to read the Kingpriest trilogy if you want to discuss spellcasting abilities with any degree of accuracy.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jan 18, 2005 22:36:46 I loved the KINGPRIEST TRILOGY. There is no question that the KingPriest Beldinas had tremendous abillity to cast spells and such. It was the power of the Kingpriest that raised Cathan from the dead, so it would probably be easier for the KingPriest to call Crysannia's soul back to her body

My theory is that True Clerics can "tap" a god for power. While a god in the beginning will know right off the bat where that Cleric's real ambition's lie, if a cleric's faith is pure, it is possible that a Cleric can continue to tap that power to an extent.

My comment about the KingPriests being potrayed as corrupt and wicked from the get go is not just isolated to Beldinas either. The way I read it, it seem's like from conception they were a corrupt organization. While it is possible they kept their problems out of the public view and in such a manner that none of the other nations had any clue, I doubt it. There is no way the KingPriests could have garnered the respect from so many nations, including the Silvanesti whom would have been slow to trust unless they were convinced the KingPriest truely was the chosen of Paladine. At some point, the KingPriests had to be something that would have really been inspirational to the rest of the nations on Ansalon.

I try to make that point in my Pre-Cataclysm campaigns which are in some cases 2000 years or so before the Cataclysm. In them, I often make some references to Istar. In my age, Istar is a moderately sized city, certainly no where near the size of Tarsis or Palanthus. But in this age, the KingPriest is pure in his faith, to the point that it will inspire others to accept.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dragonhelm Jan 17, 2005 22:23:16	The Nexus has posted a new article by Dragonlance author Chris Pierson. For those who enjoyed his Kingpriest Trilogy, you may be interested in his new article - Kingpriests of Istar. Enjoy!
#2 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2005 0:34:57	My big problem with that KingPriest timeline is that... 1) From it's very beginning, Istar and the KingPriests come across as corrupt and evil. While there may be some truth to that by the end, at some point, in order for Istar to have gained the following it got from the four corners of Ansalon (and let's be clear that everyone from Solamnia, Ergoth, Qualinesti, Tarsis, Silvanesti and all lands in between) supported him. While at the end it was more out of neccesity to 'be on the right side', at some point, the KingPriest's teachings had to be pure in order to have ever done what he did. 2) kinda covered above- There was not enough time IMHO (270 years) for the Kingpriests to gain that much power over all of Ansalon. I think realistically, considering the divisions that lay upon the lands by then, about 5-600 years of Istar gaining a following amongst Krynn would be more realistic.
#3 true_blue Jan 18, 2005 0:57:37	I have no problem with the time frame. To me, anything is practically possible, just looking at the US and how quick we became a huge power, and you are only talking about 200+ years. If you add in an elemnt like religion, its amazing just how quick people would "bow down" or accept things. Just think how much more Christianity there would be if the US came out and declared itself a pure Christan country and sculpted its ideals and everything to it. People around the world would accept it and embrace it more... at least in my opinion. But then agaibn, I dont want to get in a religion discussion. Just stating I think something like religion can add so much, especially to people who know the gods are there. Anyways, my whole problem with the Kingpriest has always been that he did evil things. I dont care if he started out good, did good things throughout his life, etc. The man did a few blatently evil things, and I just think there is any conceivable way that Paladine would sit back and not do anything. It bothers me so much that the gods are "active" in the world, but a simple thing like telling the highest cleric of his faith that he was doing evil things seemed to be beyond his power. Also, remember he still had spells. He was able to bring Crysania back. This means he was still getting powers from Paladine.. or at least from some source. As I've said in other threads, if the Kingpriest gets spells and powers still from his god, while doing things that grossly violates the tenets of that god, it opens up a whole new world. Clerics will be able to do basically anything they want, and I'm sure in a world where gods are active, this isnt suppose to happen. Cam has said that there is a way that the Kingpriest still gets spells and I'm very interested to see how it comes to be. But unfortunately, I dont have high hopes for liking it. This isn't a diss, but I'm just thinking I probably won't like it. Hopefully this won't happen though. Coming up with answers that pleases everyone is a hard thing to do, and I give credit to the folks at SP for trying and still trying to keep continuity. Personally... I thought the Kingpriest trilogy was a good read, but it was almost like reading about some totally other event than what happened in the Legends...in my opinion. It almost seemed both Kingpriests were two totally different people. Now I'm sure some people say that it was meant to be like that..and maybe a little bit I agree. But even at the end, the Kingpriest in Pierson's novels didnt seem like the same Kingpriest from Legends. Even during the same event, when bolth are talking about the same thing. Maybe some of this can be explained because they are from different people's views, but to me it just seems too weird.
#4 ferratus Jan 18, 2005 10:49:24	My biggest complaint is that it is the Catholic church with serial numbers filed off, from an unsympathetic protestant biases and myth mixed with fact towards the institution. But that was my complaint about Legends and the Kingpriest Trilogy, so I doubt it is going to change soon. ;) It isn't like North American/English culture is a stranger to that kind of thing.
#5 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2005 21:28:05	Actually, I re-read the Legends trilogy not too long ago, and I noticed that the Kingpriest doesn't ACTUALLY cast any spells. I could swear it was him who brought Crysannia back, but it actually wasn't. Well, it doesn't say for sure if he did or not, but evidence shows that he did in fact, NOT bring Crysannia back himself. Even during the Wizard's Conclave, when they sent Crysannia and Caramon back, they didn't say that only the Kingpriest was powerful enough to bring her back(which is what I could swear he said), but instead that the only place to find clerics powerful enough to bring her back could be found in that time. One Istarian cleric mentions the fact that the gift of true healing usually only appears in the very young or very old, not the main body of the clergy, but still, there were only 2 clerics powerful enough to help her. One was Elistan, who was too busy dying at the time, and the other was Crysannia, who was too busy being sorta dead at the time. ANd anyway, the wizards had another reason to send them to that time. So, there really is NO evidence that the Kingpriest could cast magic, at least in the Legends, and let's face it, anything said in the main series trumps things said in other sources. Besides, for all we know, the Kingpriest was casting magic, but it was arcane instead of divine. Either way, he definately maxed out Righteous Zealot.
#6 wolffenjugend_dup Jan 18, 2005 22:11:38	You need to read the Kingpriest trilogy if you want to discuss spellcasting abilities with any degree of accuracy.
#7 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2005 22:36:46	I loved the KINGPRIEST TRILOGY. There is no question that the KingPriest Beldinas had tremendous abillity to cast spells and such. It was the power of the Kingpriest that raised Cathan from the dead, so it would probably be easier for the KingPriest to call Crysannia's soul back to her body My theory is that True Clerics can "tap" a god for power. While a god in the beginning will know right off the bat where that Cleric's real ambition's lie, if a cleric's faith is pure, it is possible that a Cleric can continue to tap that power to an extent. My comment about the KingPriests being potrayed as corrupt and wicked from the get go is not just isolated to Beldinas either. The way I read it, it seem's like from conception they were a corrupt organization. While it is possible they kept their problems out of the public view and in such a manner that none of the other nations had any clue, I doubt it. There is no way the KingPriests could have garnered the respect from so many nations, including the Silvanesti whom would have been slow to trust unless they were convinced the KingPriest truely was the chosen of Paladine. At some point, the KingPriests had to be something that would have really been inspirational to the rest of the nations on Ansalon. I try to make that point in my Pre-Cataclysm campaigns which are in some cases 2000 years or so before the Cataclysm. In them, I often make some references to Istar. In my age, Istar is a moderately sized city, certainly no where near the size of Tarsis or Palanthus. But in this age, the KingPriest is pure in his faith, to the point that it will inspire others to accept.