Frank's book deals, among other things, with how to measure the wealth and prosperity of a nation compared to other nations. Should you do it the capitalist way and count the number of millionaires and billionaires? Should you compare average incomes? Should you compare price levels? Life expectancy? etc. etc.
It made me think about the Known World and the "value of a gold piece" discussion we had recently - about whether every nation's gold piece should have the same value.
And then I got to thinking: Would not the level of wealth of a nation also reflect in its prices and minimum wages? I believe it says somewhere in the DMG that an average craftsman earns 10 silver pieces a day. But would a poor blacksmith in rural Ostland or the frontier of Karameikos earn the same as a blacksmith from Darokin who is a member of the local guild of blacksmiths, possibly allied to a merchant house, and operating under the protection of the Trade Laws??
What are your thoughts on these matters?
Have any of you developed more sophisticated models of economy and commerce for your campaigns?
:-) Jesper
I abandoned the wages written in the Expert set long time ago, because they were clearly understimated, IMO. I think that a family of farmers (father, mother, 2-3 childrens) should gain something like 20 gp per month, but probably the most of this amount should be in foods and goods and not in real money. An artisan or blacksmith in a rich city should gain from 40 to 50 gp per month, and the most in real money, not in goods. I use a rough corrispondence of 1 gp = 25-30 dollars (well 25 euros for me :-) for the Known World and adjust any price thereafter. Obviously you should assume that gold is a lot more common in Mystara than it was in RW medieval times, when gold pieces were very rare and very small, but I believe that was implicit in D&D from the start... For the sake of simplicity I assume that gold pieces of different nations have all the same worth and weight (an international standard), or you should put into play things like inflation and so on... As for measuring the wealth of a nation, I assume that the richer nations of Mystara will have more commerce, magic and goods, making them more similar to modern than medieval times. So Glantri, Darokin and Alphatia will have continual magical lights on the street, rich people will have running water at home, regular carriage services and similar things, but consider that my Mystara is a bit high magic...
Bye
Francesco
This thread is in no way intended to badmouth the United States, capitalism or corporate influence on the lives of ordinary citizens. I just find this subject fascinating because of the book I am reading and I can draw some perspectives to the Know World.
Now:
A passage in the beforementioned book by Thomas Frank is about the notion of a connection between capitalism and democracy, which has dominated the West since the end of the Cold War. To quickly summarize: the dominant perception is that free trade, democratic elections and minimum government interference is ideal. It is believed that capitalism brings democracy and visa versa. Another of the major important pillars of capitalism is the right to own property and make money while paying as little tax as possible.
Thomas Frank (an American) states that because the United States was founded after a war of independence from tyranny, it was one of the first states to emphasize the freedom of the individual. And with freedom came choice and suddenly people were masters of their own fate, because no king or baron told them where to live and what to do anymore.
So, this concept of "every man is responsible for making his own fortune" came to dominate the United States and shape the mind-set of her citizens. While Europe and Asia experienced major socialist and marxist movements and regimes, the United States never really had these great outcries of public discontent with the gap between wealthy and poor! (hold on, I'll be making my point shortly :D ) So, many countries in Europe and Asia to this day have some form for social security and generally tax wealthy people to a higher degree than does the United States. Nowhere on earth is the gap between the wealthy and the poor greater than in the U.S. (According to Frank's book, Bill Gates owned the same amount of money as the poorest 40% of America's population in 1999.)
So why doesn't the poor people in America complain? make a revolution? take back part of all this wealth? Because, according to Frank, Americans believe that every individual has the same set of opportunities and has only himself to blame, if he's poor. In fact, Americans admire and adore a "self-made" man like Dell or Gates or any other industrialist. Instead of saying: "it really isn't fair they got all that money" (like European middle-class does ;) ) they say: "well, he worked hard to get it, that's fair enough".
And now for my point:
If we compare the difference in European and U.S. mind-set (generally speaking) I think we can draw a parrallel to the Known World.
In Darokin, and to some extend Minrothad Guilds, there is a greater degree of freedom and individualism than in the other countries where liege, clan and family comes first. Darokinians LOVE money. They even invented social classes named 'elite', 'gold' etc. And they are work-aholics.
So what if Darokin began "exporting" their ideals to the rest of the Known World? Historically, Darokin is a lot less keen on military intervention than the United States (just an observation - not criticism!!) but even without forcing their ideas upon other states by force of arms, it seems to me that eventually stories about the freedom and wealth of Darokin would travel back to other nations and could potentially cause civic unrest among the poor who want the same rights and freedom?
On the other hand, while a peasant family in Karameikos might not enjoy freedom, they certainly do enjoy a level of security in the form of traditionally close family ties and a lord who looks out for them? Something that the 'copper' class of Darokin might envy them in return?
What if people from Glantri, Rockhome and Karameikos want to emmigrate to Darokin - the 'Land of Opportunities' - should the nobles just let them leave then?
I think the difference in how a person from Darokin and a person from e.g. Karameikos view 'personal freedom' can really make for some interesting roleplaying encounters
:-) Jesper
You have to remember one thing: the very concept of modern capitalism did not evolve until very recently. Like so very many revealed religions (and I include Marxism among those), it has certain assumptions that may not necessarily obtain, and too, like all religions, acts as an opiate for the masses.
And that's all I'll say about the real world in this...
As to the Known World, remember, the cultures thereof are a mish-mash of cultures from different eras and regions. Each will tend to have very different ideas about "what is good in life" beyond the mere monetary, and will ahve vastly different forms of social organization. Let's look at this in the order of the first three Gazetteers:
Karameikos: Karameikos is a divided nation. The native Traladarans are, for the most part, a mish-mash of what we would consider dark age Romanians and Russians, with a strong dash of Romany thrown in for good measure. The operative phrase here, though, is Dark Age. Prior to the invasion of the Thyatians in 900 AC, the Traladarans were divided up into tribal territories and "city-states" (none larger than 5,000 people all told), with vast tracts of monster-ridden lands in between. The only source of wealth was the land. It was held generally by serfs, people who were beholden to the land, and thus "owned" to an extent by the master of those lands. When the Thyatians arrived, they broke up the local power base, and eliminated the practice of serfdom, instituting true slavery. When a local robber-baron was captured, he and his family and supporters (those that survived) were thrown into slavery. His lands were broken up and divided among the former serfs, now peasants, though not all peasants were given land — generally only those who worked with the Thyatians were given lands. Those lands not distributed to the peasants were owned by the Empire itself, managed by Thyatian governors, and worked by landless peasants or slaves. The Thyatians enforced their ideals of primogeniture, and thus only the eldest son or daughter could inherit the family lands. This caused a swelling of the population of Marilenev, bringing about a true city culture. During the last hundred years, the various peasant families have intermarried, lands have changed hands, and new lands have been carved through the forests — as peasants have seen the value of working for themselves in the last several generations. With the coming of Stefan Karameikos, a different type of feudalism has re-appeared. The peasants still hold their lands, but now they are also expected to work the lands of their feudal overlord (if they have one) as a form of tax (adventurers and city folk still get the normal 25% tax burden every quarter). Thus, though they are not serfs, they still owe work-service for their protection. They have no concept of "wages." Even those who are not family members who work the fields are paid in kind, not coin. Coins are rare in the rural areas, silver generally all that is known in common day usage. Peasants mostly hope to bear many healthy children, to help them work the fields and praise the Immortals, and have enough to give their younger children a small stake before they leave to find their own farms or leave for the city. Meanwhile, gold and silver are considered the normal mode of trade in Specularum, where several small factories have been started with all the extra labor swelling the city ranks. In the city, the Traladarans hope at best to earn enough to keep together life and limb, and maybe save enough to buy their own land some day. Karameikans (Thyatians and Thyatian/Traladaran half-breeds) are pretty much in the same boat, though with their "better" ancestry, they hope to someday rise through the military and either earn a post or a knighthood. Otherwise, they hope to make enough to buy a small business and maintain several Traladaran craftsmen under their patronage, or a larger number of unskilled laboroers in one of the new factories.
Ylaruam: The Alasiyani are divided into two major groups: the urban folk and the nomads. The nomads are, relatively speaking, a simple folk. They want to find enough good pasturage to keep their camels, horses, and goats healthy, hunt enough critters to keep flesh on their own bones, and raid enough enemies to live well. Life for the nomad consists of keeping lions and monsters away from the herds and the tents, and defending both from other clans. They have no concept of "wages." Successful nomads survive; those who are not, die. Truly successful nomads become respected, and earn the title "sheik," are given greater portions of the treasures from raids, and can have more wives — conversly, they are responsible for more people, especially mroe sons and daughters! The urban folk are more like the urban folk of Karameikos (or anywhere, for that matter). They are base laborers or craftsmen, for the most part, and need to produce their goods or use their muscles to earn enough in coin to buy the goods they need to survive. This is classical capitalism at its best: work for a day, earn a few dirhams. Save enough dirhams to buy some raw materials, hire someone to work for you, sell the goods he produces for you, and pay him only half what you sold the good for: now that's a deal! With the relatively low population of Ylaruam, wages are high for good workers. A wealthy merchant is most respected, provided he remembers to spend tim in the mosque honoring the Immortals.
Glantri: Glantri is much like Karameikos, before the Thyatian invasion. Every principality has a mixture of serfs and peasants working the fields, or peasants doing other brute labors (lumber, mining, animal husbandry, etc.). Probably about half the rural population are serfs, the rest peasants. Serfs just hope their lord does nto decide to use them in some experiment or feed them to the werewolves, while peasants do their best to stay out of their lord's sight and make enough to pay the tax man every quarter. Otherwise, peasants in Glantri are not dissimilar to those in Karameikos. The urban folk are much like those in Karameikos and Ylaruam, mostly craftsmen and base laborers, though with the far stricter control the wizard princes maintain over their lands and the various guilds maintain over their domains (as compared to the various amirs in Ylaruam and barons in Karamiekos), there is even less upward mobility... save, of course, for those trained in magical skills. Coin is king here, too, then, as it is a mark of status as well as wealth. But the best most craftsmen can hope for is to become a master in their own craft, as investment and growth outside one's craft is frowned upon by the guilds, and it tends to get too messy for the likes of the princes, who prefer things quiet and simple.
I really like the notion of life being a struggle for the peasantry and that you'll be hard pressed to find anything in a village that you couldn't buy with a handful of silvers.
The things you wrote about Ylari nomads also inspired me. What a harsh life.
I think, perhaps, that because I live in a place without want I often forget to portray the problems in life for NPCs - how they live in fear of famine, taxes, the Immortals and monsters.
I'd like to use your post when I hand out my first campaign newsletter to my players soon. It was one of the best descriptions of Known World life I have read. :D
:-) Jesper