http://www.thorf.co.uk/mystara/d&dtimeline.zip
It's in Word 2000 format for now, and the formatting is far from finished, though I'm not entirely sure on what to do with it to proceed from here.
Here's a copy of the introduction I just wrote for it. It's long, but it explains the whole history of this very long project:
I first started this project more than fifteen years ago, when I was about 11 years old. At that time, only a handful of Gazet-teers and Dawn of the Emperors had been released. My initial aim was simply to collect the timelines provided in each sup-plement into one cohesive whole.
Gradually, as TSR re-leased more information on the Known World, my database be-gan to grow. With the release of the Hollow World campaign set, suddenly there was a whole lot more history – and a lot more depth was included in the Hol-low World set’s timeline, too.
Eventually, my task was almost complete. However, reading through the timeline, it quickly became apparent that while some books abbreviated their history substantially, other sets went into much more detail. Add to that the fact that I had almost run out of new material to add to the timeline, and the project moved to the next level: the systematic scouring of each supplement for historical infor-mation.
Starting with GAZ1, I went through each book and noted down any and all refer-ences to history, and any dates. In the interests of being thor-ough, I included not just the history section, but all sections, from geographical overview to NPCs to adventures. Even the smallest fact went into my notes, and eventually most of them also went into the timeline.
At about this point I also decided to start noting sources for each section. This was pri-marily because every now and then I came across conflicting entries in the official timelines, and it helped a great deal to be able to evalute the sources be-fore making a decision on which source was probably correct. These inconsistencies are proba-bly what the asterisks in the source tags refer to.
Then something unex-pected happened, and TSR decided to move Mystara to the AD&D game. This ultimately led to the death of the world, at least as far as printed works go. Not long thereafter, I drifted away from this project. At this stage I had been working on it on and off for possibly as long as 5 years, and the lack of new material to add in to the data-base meant there was little left to be done. Plus, I believe that I had somewhat lost track of what exactly was left to do.
A few years later, I dis-covered the Mystara Mailing List, and came back to the pro-ject once more. I updated it with the Savage Coast setting’s timeline, and possibly some other things which I had missed out. I designed a cover sheet, very similar to page 1 of this document, and extracted the da-tabase to text format. Unfortunately reformatting it proved tricky, and with many other projects to work on, not to mention the existence of Daniel Boese’s excellent timeline, I slowly drifted away and forgot about it again. Eventually I be-came busy with other things in my life, and once again left Mystara behind.
Now, as I write this, I have once again returned to the world of Mystara. Finally, I have found the time and moti-vation to at least partially complete this project. There are undoubtedly many errors in need of correction, and probably many more things that could be added; I never quite knew what to do with Wrath of the Immor-tals and the Poor Wizard’s Almanac series, which both provide a lot more detailed in-formation than the timeline previously contained. Also it still lacks the timelines of a few products I could never get my hands on, most notably PC4 Night Howlers.
At some point, I will re-vise the timeline once again, checking old sources and adding the missing parts, but for now, I simply wish to release this into the world for Mystara’s fans and supporters to use.
It has been a long, long journey, and it’s not over yet. But for now, here are the fruits of my long efforts.
Enjoy.
Thorfinn Tait
Akita, Japan
January 2005
Thanks! :D
:-) Jesper
Now I think I'll start thinking about what I really wanted to do; more specific story-like histories, stuff similar to Tolkien's appendixes. Brief stories that give more names to the figures of the past along with how they changed the world, flesh out more complexe lineages, place more battle sites, and more detailed geographic feature names, etc. Maybe something that could be worked on bit by bit and collectively when the bug bites, sort-a-speak.
Did I say thank you yet?
Hugin, your idea about creating something akin to Tolkien's appendices sounds excellent! That would be a definite must read for me.
There are a lot of inconsistencies with style in the timeline that I haven't dealt with, I think. And it seems pretty clear that this project was done over the course of many years: the early entries were put in as-is from their abbreviated timelines, whereas with the later products I adapted the written history as much as possible to fit the timeline, and input the whole lot.
Also, some countries have long, detailed histories while others get lost along the way. Of course, this isn't something easily changed - this is the official timeline, after all; I can't just add things where I like. But I think there's a little balancing of content that could be done without compromising things.
For now, though, I'm back to my secret project. :D
For now, though, I'm back to my secret project. :D
Oh? There is a secret project as well? Oh goodye-goodye! :D I can't wait!
:-) Jesper
The nice thing about the program is that you can choose which timelines to merge and which to leave out with only a few button clicks. I think I've got most of the Gaz timelines in (sans Gaz 5), and several fan written timelines as well. Check it out and see if it would be useful to you.
Khoronus Timeline Tracker
Adding new timelines is pretty straight forward (each timelien gets its own text file - called an event file). It's been a while sine I used it myself, but I believe that you can mark each timeline file with a source, author, and whether it is cannon or fanbased, and mark each timeline event with a pagenumber for easy reference.
If anyone decided to create more event files I will gladly add them to the site.
A "secret" project is still in the works, eh?
I wonder what it could be.Hugin, your idea about creating something akin to Tolkien's appendices sounds excellent! That would be a definite must read for me.
Glad you're interested in reading this kind of thing, but I'm also hoping a few other people want to jump in with entries of their own. Actually I was wondering just yesterday about what the continent of Alphatia was called before the Alphatians came to it, who was their first real leader, who did they first meet when they arrived and how did it go, how did each of the regions come about as they are today - you know, the basics ;) .
What about a short little story about the life of Ottar the Just, the events leading up to the Battle of Bridenfjord, and the time surrounding the formation of the Kingdom of Vestland.
Then there's Mad Creeg who lead the rebellion of the Thyatian prisoners on Ierendi's islands. This could be cool for someone that's good with writing really interesting characters.
When I look at the timelines, I often wonder things like, "hmmm... the Quest for Steel, what all happened during that?
Or, "So how many people in Thyatis can claim 'Royalty'? How complicated are the royal lineages and how could these affect events IMCs?"
*and now I close the drapes over the window to my brain* :D
*sigh* I wish I was a better and more prolific writer (I also wish I could type faster).
Glad you're interested in reading this kind of thing, but I'm also hoping a few other people want to jump in with entries of their own.
FWIW, I was thinking of doing a story like this about a couple of Mystara characters- in particular, Kagyar and Al-Kalim. The former, an epic story that I'd had the basics of (and the first part very well plotted out) that I had hoped/still hope to do as a comic; the latter was going to be a Neverwinter Nights series of modules (the PCs playing roles in the events of Al's life).
Alas, my ambition has thus far proven greater than my ability. I just need to sit down and *do* it. In some fashion. Maybe I'll try my hand at doing what you suggest- some stories.
I'm also hoping a few other people want to jump in with entries of their own.
You bet! I need to read up on ancient Traldar / Traladara, but I think the epics of Halav, Petra and Zirchev are worth writing sometime :D
Actually I was wondering just yesterday about what the continent of Alphatia was called before the Alphatians came to it
Funny, I never thought of that. Wasn't Alphatia (the Immortal) one of the first empresses of Alphatia? If that is so, what was Alphatia called back in the old world where the Flaems and Alphaks also came from? And what did the Alphatians call Alphatia before Empress Alphatia? And just what did SHE do to deserve having them name the empire after her??
:-) Jesper
The Immortal Alphatia did not go by that name when she was still a mortal. She assumed the name Alphatia after her ascension. She is named after the Empire, not the other way around.
According to the Test of the Warlords module (or one of those in that series) the continent of Alphatia was formerly referred to as Atlantis.
When I made the planetary map for precataclysmic Mystara, I also pondered upon what to call the Proto-Alphatian continent. James Mishler suggested I'd use the name "Janivars land" which he used in his campaign after the old Skandaharian explorer who discovered the continent in the Blackmoorian age. The name was later corrupted into Janifey, the name of the people originally living on the continent, later migrating to the Janifey islands.
Håvard
FWIW, I was thinking of doing a story like this about a couple of Mystara characters- in particular, Kagyar and Al-Kalim.
I know I'd find these incredibly interesting!
Alas, my ambition has thus far proven greater than my ability. I just need to sit down and *do* it. In some fashion. Maybe I'll try my hand at doing what you suggest- some stories.
I can relate; my mind sometimes floods with ideas like these but I'm often not able to do it like it was in my thoughts. I think that's why I'm looking at the "Tolkien's appendices" or the Simarillion (sp?) approach. Have all the historical events and characters given in descent detail and in an "oral history"-like way. It was a thread here some time ago that had a story about Halav in it that kind of got me thinking about micro-history.
I think the epics of Halav, Petra and Zirchev are worth writing sometime
That would be great. Could be a good opportunity to give some detail to the vast "light woods" and "hills" map hexes, and some individuality to all those seperate tribes of the Traldar peoples. (What comes to mind is the many Greek tribes and city-states as in the movie "Troy")
Alphatia was formerly referred to as Atlantis.
I remember reading somewhere about that, but IIRC people didn't like that name for it. There was some theories thrown around but I can't remember anything about them now. Maybe it was on the MML.
When I made the planetary map for precataclysmic Mystara, I also pondered upon what to call the Proto-Alphatian continent. James Mishler suggested I'd use the name "Janivars land" which he used in his campaign after the old Skandaharian explorer who discovered the continent in the Blackmoorian age. The name was later corrupted into Janifey, the name of the people originally living on the continent, later migrating to the Janifey islands.
That sounds pretty good. I think I'm going to make some copies of a Mystara map and write down notes about where different peoples (and demi-humans, etc.) are at different times; i.e. a map for 1500 BC, one for 1000 BC, etc. That could give an interesting visual overview of Mystara's history at any given time. (Well, there goes my dreams of grandeur again!)
I remember reading somewhere about that, but IIRC people didn't like that name for it.
I have mixed feelings about that as well. Mystara has always been kind of tounge in cheek, and heavy on cliches. So in that regard, Atlantis is just as plausible as any other name (and the continent does end up sinking, after all). But I also like the Janifar's Land theory posted by Havard.
A while back I wrote a little java program to compile different timelines and make and html output for viewing.
Wow, that sounds rather cool, Chimpman. I haven't had time to check out your program yet, but I can't see any reason why there would be a problem adapting the data in my timeline to it.
Unfortunately I don't have time to do that myself, at least not at the moment. My other project is taking up all my free time. As it is, the current version of the timeline could do with more formatting, too.
On the other hand, if anyone else wants to take the time to do it, they are very welcome to use my file.
I guess I should explain exactly what my timeline consists of. In most cases I typed the timelines in word for word, copying directly from the original TSR books. Occasionally I changed a word, or rephrased in order to fit the official histories into a timeline format. This is especially true of information given in the written histories but not in the abbreviated timeline.
Changes to the timeline for the sake of continuity are minimal; most conflicts have been preserved intact, to the best of my knowledge. Unfortunately as it is many years since I typed everything in to the computer, I can't be sure of this, nor can I explain where things have been changed.
In any case, the bottom line is that the timelines are 99.9% official work, with the remaining 0.1% encompassing my editing and occasional rephrasing. That's why I subtitled the document as "The Official Timeline of Mystara".
"The Cynidiceans meet a barbaric, golden-haired people (the ancestors of the Heldann tribes)" (page 110 of B1-9 In Search of Adventure).
"Later, barbarian warriors stormed over the walls and destroyed the city" (page 97, same book).
Has anyone else ever spotted this reference? (about the Heldanners I mean)
I tried to search the vault for references on Heldanners, but it was down at the moment.
AFAIK the tribesmen of Thyatis (Kerendans, Thyatians and Hattians) decend from the Millenian Empire to the south (present Hinterlands) and did not land on the mainland until after the fall of Cynidicea. And the Heldanners and people of the Northern Reaches are of Antalian stock from Norwold. Am I wrong?
If I am right, what on Mystara were a tribe of Heldanners doing in Ylaruam at the decline of Cynidicea??
:-) Jesper
My idea would be that these barbarians came from the Darokin area rather than from Norwold, or they could have been some slaves who just rebelled against the Nithian masters and marched southwards during the downfall of Nithia.
Going off the top of my head, if Cynidicea was founded at the end of the Nithian empire (around BC 540), the invasion you're talking about might be indeed some Antalian tribe that was wandering in south-eastern Darokin and used to raid nearby communities, and that maybe later moved to Karameikos and settled there. They could have been Antalians with Slavic roots that may explain the Slavic-influence on the later Traladarans.
These Antalians (let's call them Darans) were prolly living in lower Vestland when the Nithians came in BC 1000 and conquered the Northern lands, so got pushed westwards to avoid enslavement. They roamed the area between Rockhome and Ethengar until forced westwards and ended up in Darokin, fighting against humanoids. Finally they moved south but were later dislodged by the elves, so they went eastwards and southwards, invading both cynidicea and the Shires, and ending up in Karameikos where they settled when all other areas around them were too dangerous to raid (unified Shires and Alfheim) or barren (Ylaruam).
It's a thought, mind you ;)
Well, pretty interesting reference Spellweaver.
My idea would be that these barbarians came from the Darokin area rather than from Norwold, or they could have been some slaves who just rebelled against the Nithian masters and marched southwards during the downfall of Nithia.
Going off the top of my head, if Cynidicea was founded at the end of the Nithian empire (around BC 540), the invasion you're talking about might be indeed some Antalian tribe that was wandering in south-eastern Darokin and used to raid nearby communities, and that maybe later moved to Karameikos and settled there. They could have been Antalians with Slavic roots that may explain the Slavic-influence on the later Traladarans.
These Antalians (let's call them Darans) were prolly living in lower Vestland when the Nithians came in BC 1000 and conquered the Northern lands, so got pushed westwards to avoid enslavement. They roamed the area between Rockhome and Ethengar until forced westwards and ended up in Darokin, fighting against humanoids. Finally they moved south but were later dislodged by the elves, so they went eastwards and southwards, invading both cynidicea and the Shires, and ending up in Karameikos where they settled when all other areas around them were too dangerous to raid (unified Shires and Alfheim) or barren (Ylaruam).
It's a thought, mind you ;)
Interesting how this forum has a unique way of taking tiny references and details that the authors probably just made up on a whim years before a coherent Mystara was established and transforming them into part of the great canon. :D
I like your idea DM!
:-) Jesper
I was looking through B4 The Lost City for some references for DM, when I came across this:
"The Cynidiceans meet a barbaric, golden-haired people (the ancestors of the Heldann tribes)" (page 110 of B1-9 In Search of Adventure).
"Later, barbarian warriors stormed over the walls and destroyed the city" (page 97, same book).
Has anyone else ever spotted this reference? (about the Heldanners I mean)
You might want to check out the Cynidicea Gazetteer (by Geoff Gander and others). They reference the event there, though I don't recall offhand what their solution was (I think they used the Doulakki group that someone invented a long time ago).
If you don't like the Doulakki solution (DM has presented some good arguments against it in the past), then there is certainly good reason for Heldanners/Antalians in Cynidicea from canon. We know from Nithian history (in various spots) that the Nithians actually had colonial expeditions go as far north as lower Norwold, and that they controlled the Northern Reaches area for a period of time (there are Nithian runes in the cliffs of Soderfjord). The Heldann/Antalian marauders in Cynidicea could either have been remnants of the people who were not subjugated by the Nithians yet, or else raiding parties like that may have been the reason behind the Nithians invading and conquering the northern lands in the first place.