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Rajaat's citadel and Capital

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jan 28, 2005 15:27:26 Ok I'm going to continue my work on the hidden keep of the Warbringer. I was wondering if anyone felt that a city-state similar to minas tirith would be too cliche'? I originally had this idea from the old RPG middle earth and used it for AD&D in the early 80's. fell in love with Dark sun and subsequently changed it over. My question is..........................does it sound too corny to have a Lone mountain and an adjacent city built into it as Rajaats Citadel and City State. which is West of Tyr by about 3800 miles.

Scott

An unimposing, yet deadly Pyreen Paladin in a quiet land called Athas
#2
Torack
Jan 28, 2005 15:59:27 We-ell, the dragon has/had Ur Draxa hidden deep in the Silt Sea, so I don't see any reason for Rajaat to not have one.

Minas Tirith might be a bit too corny mind you...
#3
Pennarin
Jan 28, 2005 16:15:49 Such an add-on is based on no evidence, for once, and secondly I find it off-key.
I'd say don't add anything besides the Tower.
#4
dawnstealer
Jan 28, 2005 22:17:57 Like Pennarin, I always saw Rajaat as a traveling wizard (more like Gandalf than Saruman or the Steward of Gondor), but if you must, you must. Here's a few ideas for ya:

Why build a city out of nothing? Borys likely would have taken his old boss's pad. If there's anywhere where Rajaat would have made a city, it would have been Ur Draxa.
You could go the other route and say that the Pristine Tower is his citadel. Maybe there's an extensive underground maze (ala undermountain)?
Celik. Did I get that one right? The city-state to the South that's overrun with undead and monsters and stuff? Considering that there isn't a (known) SK that went with it, maybe it was Rajaat's.
#5
zombiegleemax
Jan 29, 2005 4:08:05 the only evidence for Rajaat not constructing any such fortification would be his intense hatred of the present world. i believe the inspiration seeded at the end of the WRotJC was well off enough to place a citadel for the first sorceror, and at the very least, his inverted pyramid is evidence enough. as for the pristine tower argument, in no part of the history does it say _where_ teh champions confronted rajaat. i could buy that they razed the seat of their masters power and dragged him back to the pristine to do their well cited work. id place it farther north than the cliffs though, perhaps even on the fringe of the kreen empire. or lost to the silt, doesnt matter. at the least give it that blue-age sense of majesty and better-than-you feel that a self-hating megalomaniac reminiscing about the good old days would have or perhaps, there is just more to the pristine tower than meets the eye...
#6
dawnstealer
Jan 29, 2005 12:57:26 He did actually build that upside-down pyramid out in the swamp, but other than that...

I just couldn't see the guy sitting in a citadel.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jan 29, 2005 19:06:07 guess its all in how you want to envision him. i personally see him as a pyreen high level wizard, neither defiler nor preserver (he created those forms anyways). after all if he had the prowess to use his magic effeciently the champions would have been out of a job! as for the 'citadel' those words themselves appear in WRotJC at the end, referring to designing a true center for rajaat's magical purposes. all whatcha want to do with it
#8
dawnstealer
Jan 29, 2005 22:21:16 After the Pentad, I always figured him to be a sun wizard, in the same vein as Sadira but MUCH more powerful.
#9
zombiegleemax
Jan 31, 2005 3:48:46 i dunno...he has that whole 'sun spell is death to my shadow' kinda thing. though it would explain his apathy towards the greenery ^_^

i think i postulated he was a hydromancer at one point, thus his affection to teh Swamp in WRoJC's magic research, and the whole want to reduce world to the blue age again. mud palace's connection to the plane of water could just be the kind of meddling he did in the process of planar effect, like trying to undo the damage of his ancestors. or maybe just pulling a dregoth and trying to do something that can't be done ;) at the very least he dispatched the underlings to research planes.

you know it might not be a far cry to say he had a planar citadel, like a pocket in the grey or black. it could even be the very prison his separated essence inhabits today. now thats something you dont see in the astral every day now is it!
#10
zombiegleemax
Jan 31, 2005 7:00:31 Didn't Rajaat set up the Pristine Tower as his Base of Operations? I seem to remember that being referenced in many supplements...
#11
Kamelion
Jan 31, 2005 11:42:59 The "Into the Swamp" adventure from Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs mentions Rajaat's Citadel as being located deep within the swamps and states that it was where his chief magical research and experimentation took place. The inverted pyramid was only a minor magical outpost by comparison.
#12
dawnstealer
Jan 31, 2005 12:04:10 Probably destroyed in the creation of the swamp, but Kam's right: if Rajaat had a citadel, it would probably be at the base of the cliffs in the swamp. Either that or the Pristine Tower (which was actually a creation of the life-shapers and not Rajaat - doesn't mean he couldn't change it up a little, though, much like Hallister with Undermountain).
#13
zombiegleemax
Feb 01, 2005 9:33:12 i think the disclaimer in the WRoJC about rajaats true citadel was an afterthought, for even with its cool inverted-ness the pyramid was kind of lacking. it could have been rajaats chief lab, if they spruced it up a bit!

rajaat hung out at the pristine tower to be sure, since its where the lens and all the badness went down. i still think its not a far cry to say he had a planar hideout. he's a mage right? Leomund's Interdimensional Fortress of Solitude. he had the knowledge of the planes, at least.
#14
zombiegleemax
Feb 01, 2005 16:55:59 In my version of Athas the Nature Master created not only the Pristine Tower but also the "known" and unknown Towers on the elemental Planes.

The planes didn't have sentient life then, but because of the life shaped Towers and their Link to the Pristine Tower on Athas, which draw the energy of the planes through them to alter the Sun, the spark of intelligent life was planted into the Elemental Planes, and as a countereffect the Spirit of Athas was born (manifesting in a great number of lesser spirits, which we already know). This all happened during the time of Rebirth.
Rajaat after learning all the secrets of the Pristine Tower went to the Elemental Planes to learn the secrets of the Elemental Towers and to find a way to return Athas to the Blue Age. The Elemental Lords, I choosed the known Akadi, Grumbar, Kossuth and Istishia (as powerful as Greater Gods or SKs, but no gods on athas, mind you ) tried to fight and resist him, because they saw what he was, an abomination, but they all died almost in the following battle.
He learned the secrets, controlled the Elemental Towers and went back to Athas. With this knowledge he was able to give the SK their spellgranting powers and other handy abilities ;). After his imprisonment the Lords had to regenrate, needing eons to regain their full strength.
Should Rajaat ever come back he would cleanse Athas and after this he would channel his might through the Lens and the Pristine Tower to suck the life out of all the living beings on the Elemental Planes, this would then truly return Athas to the Blue Age. BTW there are also some Athasian Djinns in my version but what the heck that was enough nonsense ;).
#15
zombiegleemax
Feb 01, 2005 17:03:08 Excellent stuff, Lukasz! May I use it?
#16
zombiegleemax
Feb 01, 2005 17:57:33 I'm glad you liked it TerminusVortexa, you can use and alter it as you wish, you don't have to ask BTW, just keep your Athas alive . I'm also open for new ideas, brainstorming is one of the best methods out there.
#17
dawnstealer
Feb 01, 2005 23:43:54 My version had a tower for each element laid out in a rough "wheel" around the Pristine Tower. There was some basis for this, but it's flimsy, at best. There was a tower at the Mud Palace (Wanderer's Journal) that spewed water out of its upper levels. This was the Water Tower, in my version. The Wanderer's Chronical made mention of a Crimson Tower, which I made into the Fire Tower.

I think there were a few others that survived the rigors of time, but I don't have them in front of me. The destruction of the Magma tower caused the Obsidian Tide, which created the deadlands (in official history, this is a researcher of Rajaat's named "Qwith" - actually, this does prove that Rajaat had powerful servants that were not the champions. Interesting).
#18
zombiegleemax
Feb 02, 2005 3:03:12 wow Lukasz that is an awesome take on it. you know with that
i could see the Pristine tower as being responsible for creating
the vortices on the planes that later empowered the SKs. as
for champions with spell giving powers, i dunno, except for in
RAFoADK theres no mention or basis of the champs empowering
their followers. oops just remembered Dregoth but i think
he was immortal and whatnot already? im guessing Rajaat brought
in the best of the best magic users in his selection process anyways.
i cant remember where but i distinctly remember the thing about
vortices being gone, thus no new SKs being able to impart spell
abilities on followers. maybe they did have that from Rajaat but
i swear i remember reading it when Borys transformed them all.
#19
zombiegleemax
Feb 02, 2005 5:16:08 I prefer Lynn Abbey version with Rajaat giving the champions the ability to grant their Templars Spells. While it is a powerful ability they can't use the energy, they are only conduits, but they control the amount of energy granted .
That is the reason no other AB could gain this power, they would need the Pristine Tower, Rajaat and the Lens.
In the PP Sacha, or was it Wyan, told Tithian that Borys isn't powerful enough to make him a SK, only Rajaat could do this.
I prefer books over RPG Products because my first exp with DS was the 2nd PP Novel but this is only a matter of taste.
But I remember that statement too, where Borys bestowed this cool power on the SKs, he was even responsible for their change into SKs and DKs. But I dunno where I read this....... I guess Wanderers Chronicles.
#20
the_peacebringer
Feb 02, 2005 11:04:44 Cool explanation, Lukasz.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 28, 2005 15:27:26	Ok I'm going to continue my work on the hidden keep of the Warbringer. I was wondering if anyone felt that a city-state similar to minas tirith would be too cliche'? I originally had this idea from the old RPG middle earth and used it for AD&D in the early 80's. fell in love with Dark sun and subsequently changed it over. My question is..........................does it sound too corny to have a Lone mountain and an adjacent city built into it as Rajaats Citadel and City State. which is West of Tyr by about 3800 miles. Scott An unimposing, yet deadly Pyreen Paladin in a quiet land called Athas
#2 Torack Jan 28, 2005 15:59:27	We-ell, the dragon has/had Ur Draxa hidden deep in the Silt Sea, so I don't see any reason for Rajaat to not have one. Minas Tirith might be a bit too corny mind you...
#3 Pennarin Jan 28, 2005 16:15:49	Such an add-on is based on no evidence, for once, and secondly I find it off-key. I'd say don't add anything besides the Tower.
#4 dawnstealer Jan 28, 2005 22:17:57	Like Pennarin, I always saw Rajaat as a traveling wizard (more like Gandalf than Saruman or the Steward of Gondor), but if you must, you must. Here's a few ideas for ya: Why build a city out of nothing? Borys likely would have taken his old boss's pad. If there's anywhere where Rajaat would have made a city, it would have been Ur Draxa. You could go the other route and say that the Pristine Tower is his citadel. Maybe there's an extensive underground maze (ala undermountain)? Celik. Did I get that one right? The city-state to the South that's overrun with undead and monsters and stuff? Considering that there isn't a (known) SK that went with it, maybe it was Rajaat's.
#5 zombiegleemax Jan 29, 2005 4:08:05	the only evidence for Rajaat not constructing any such fortification would be his intense hatred of the present world. i believe the inspiration seeded at the end of the WRotJC was well off enough to place a citadel for the first sorceror, and at the very least, his inverted pyramid is evidence enough. as for the pristine tower argument, in no part of the history does it say _where_ teh champions confronted rajaat. i could buy that they razed the seat of their masters power and dragged him back to the pristine to do their well cited work. id place it farther north than the cliffs though, perhaps even on the fringe of the kreen empire. or lost to the silt, doesnt matter. at the least give it that blue-age sense of majesty and better-than-you feel that a self-hating megalomaniac reminiscing about the good old days would have or perhaps, there is just more to the pristine tower than meets the eye...
#6 dawnstealer Jan 29, 2005 12:57:26	He did actually build that upside-down pyramid out in the swamp, but other than that... I just couldn't see the guy sitting in a citadel.
#7 zombiegleemax Jan 29, 2005 19:06:07	guess its all in how you want to envision him. i personally see him as a pyreen high level wizard, neither defiler nor preserver (he created those forms anyways). after all if he had the prowess to use his magic effeciently the champions would have been out of a job! as for the 'citadel' those words themselves appear in WRotJC at the end, referring to designing a true center for rajaat's magical purposes. all whatcha want to do with it
#8 dawnstealer Jan 29, 2005 22:21:16	After the Pentad, I always figured him to be a sun wizard, in the same vein as Sadira but MUCH more powerful.
#9 zombiegleemax Jan 31, 2005 3:48:46	i dunno...he has that whole 'sun spell is death to my shadow' kinda thing. though it would explain his apathy towards the greenery ^_^ i think i postulated he was a hydromancer at one point, thus his affection to teh Swamp in WRoJC's magic research, and the whole want to reduce world to the blue age again. mud palace's connection to the plane of water could just be the kind of meddling he did in the process of planar effect, like trying to undo the damage of his ancestors. or maybe just pulling a dregoth and trying to do something that can't be done ;) at the very least he dispatched the underlings to research planes. you know it might not be a far cry to say he had a planar citadel, like a pocket in the grey or black. it could even be the very prison his separated essence inhabits today. now thats something you dont see in the astral every day now is it!
#10 zombiegleemax Jan 31, 2005 7:00:31	Didn't Rajaat set up the Pristine Tower as his Base of Operations? I seem to remember that being referenced in many supplements...
#11 Kamelion Jan 31, 2005 11:42:59	The "Into the Swamp" adventure from Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs mentions Rajaat's Citadel as being located deep within the swamps and states that it was where his chief magical research and experimentation took place. The inverted pyramid was only a minor magical outpost by comparison.
#12 dawnstealer Jan 31, 2005 12:04:10	Probably destroyed in the creation of the swamp, but Kam's right: if Rajaat had a citadel, it would probably be at the base of the cliffs in the swamp. Either that or the Pristine Tower (which was actually a creation of the life-shapers and not Rajaat - doesn't mean he couldn't change it up a little, though, much like Hallister with Undermountain).
#13 zombiegleemax Feb 01, 2005 9:33:12	i think the disclaimer in the WRoJC about rajaats true citadel was an afterthought, for even with its cool inverted-ness the pyramid was kind of lacking. it could have been rajaats chief lab, if they spruced it up a bit! rajaat hung out at the pristine tower to be sure, since its where the lens and all the badness went down. i still think its not a far cry to say he had a planar hideout. he's a mage right? Leomund's Interdimensional Fortress of Solitude. he had the knowledge of the planes, at least.
#14 zombiegleemax Feb 01, 2005 16:55:59	In my version of Athas the Nature Master created not only the Pristine Tower but also the "known" and unknown Towers on the elemental Planes. The planes didn't have sentient life then, but because of the life shaped Towers and their Link to the Pristine Tower on Athas, which draw the energy of the planes through them to alter the Sun, the spark of intelligent life was planted into the Elemental Planes, and as a countereffect the Spirit of Athas was born (manifesting in a great number of lesser spirits, which we already know). This all happened during the time of Rebirth. Rajaat after learning all the secrets of the Pristine Tower went to the Elemental Planes to learn the secrets of the Elemental Towers and to find a way to return Athas to the Blue Age. The Elemental Lords, I choosed the known Akadi, Grumbar, Kossuth and Istishia (as powerful as Greater Gods or SKs, but no gods on athas, mind you ) tried to fight and resist him, because they saw what he was, an abomination, but they all died almost in the following battle. He learned the secrets, controlled the Elemental Towers and went back to Athas. With this knowledge he was able to give the SK their spellgranting powers and other handy abilities ;). After his imprisonment the Lords had to regenrate, needing eons to regain their full strength. Should Rajaat ever come back he would cleanse Athas and after this he would channel his might through the Lens and the Pristine Tower to suck the life out of all the living beings on the Elemental Planes, this would then truly return Athas to the Blue Age. BTW there are also some Athasian Djinns in my version but what the heck that was enough nonsense ;).
#15 zombiegleemax Feb 01, 2005 17:03:08	Excellent stuff, Lukasz! May I use it?
#16 zombiegleemax Feb 01, 2005 17:57:33	I'm glad you liked it TerminusVortexa, you can use and alter it as you wish, you don't have to ask BTW, just keep your Athas alive . I'm also open for new ideas, brainstorming is one of the best methods out there.
#17 dawnstealer Feb 01, 2005 23:43:54	My version had a tower for each element laid out in a rough "wheel" around the Pristine Tower. There was some basis for this, but it's flimsy, at best. There was a tower at the Mud Palace (Wanderer's Journal) that spewed water out of its upper levels. This was the Water Tower, in my version. The Wanderer's Chronical made mention of a Crimson Tower, which I made into the Fire Tower. I think there were a few others that survived the rigors of time, but I don't have them in front of me. The destruction of the Magma tower caused the Obsidian Tide, which created the deadlands (in official history, this is a researcher of Rajaat's named "Qwith" - actually, this does prove that Rajaat had powerful servants that were not the champions. Interesting).
#18 zombiegleemax Feb 02, 2005 3:03:12	wow Lukasz that is an awesome take on it. you know with that i could see the Pristine tower as being responsible for creating the vortices on the planes that later empowered the SKs. as for champions with spell giving powers, i dunno, except for in RAFoADK theres no mention or basis of the champs empowering their followers. oops just remembered Dregoth but i think he was immortal and whatnot already? im guessing Rajaat brought in the best of the best magic users in his selection process anyways. i cant remember where but i distinctly remember the thing about vortices being gone, thus no new SKs being able to impart spell abilities on followers. maybe they did have that from Rajaat but i swear i remember reading it when Borys transformed them all.
#19 zombiegleemax Feb 02, 2005 5:16:08	I prefer Lynn Abbey version with Rajaat giving the champions the ability to grant their Templars Spells. While it is a powerful ability they can't use the energy, they are only conduits, but they control the amount of energy granted . That is the reason no other AB could gain this power, they would need the Pristine Tower, Rajaat and the Lens. In the PP Sacha, or was it Wyan, told Tithian that Borys isn't powerful enough to make him a SK, only Rajaat could do this. I prefer books over RPG Products because my first exp with DS was the 2nd PP Novel but this is only a matter of taste. But I remember that statement too, where Borys bestowed this cool power on the SKs, he was even responsible for their change into SKs and DKs. But I dunno where I read this....... I guess Wanderers Chronicles.
#20 the_peacebringer Feb 02, 2005 11:04:44	Cool explanation, Lukasz.