Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 uratoh Jan 29, 2005 11:03:01	I recently got the Hellbound box set (yay me!) and read through the adventure...if I were to run my players through its conclusion, what, specificly, would the fiends lose abilitywise? obviously they'd lose their Greater Teleports, but is there anything else I need to note and remove? Also, if I have a player PLAYING a fiend, like a Kyton, succubus, etc, especially initially with savage species, who would be born after the Yugos stopped giving names, would I remove a +1 LA from their final total, to accomidate for them never having greater tele/etc?
#2 Mirtek Jan 29, 2005 11:30:39	3e simply totally ignored the events from Hellbound as if they did never happen. 2e did recognize the events as canon, and there was even a Forgotten Realms module, published after Hellbound, which had a note that all fiends in this adventure are unable to teleport and for further information one should look at Hellbound. Sadly the whole incident simply vanished with the release of 3e
#3 uratoh Jan 29, 2005 11:41:15	I was figuring 3.x didnt care about it...I was wondering if anyone took the time to figure out how exactly this affects various outsiders. 2nd ed was more of a 'they can teleport' thing than the specifics we have today...
#4 bob_the_efreet Jan 29, 2005 12:26:32	It actually looks like 3e does support the fiends losing teleport - and then getting it back, just weaker. Most fiends can no longer plane shift, and their awesome 'chain-summoning' power was lost.
#5 uratoh Jan 29, 2005 12:31:11	Ah, so you think they found some other means of teleporting, albiet weaker? Woulden't surprise me if raw belief that fiends can teleport gave em the powers inherent... but say I want to run a game under the old system then, what would I GIVE them to account for that?
#6 sildatorak Jan 29, 2005 15:06:02	The only ability that the fiends will lose at the conclusion will be their greater teleport. That could very well be worth reducing the LA by 1. I don't think that Kytons have teleportation, though. IMC, the fiend ability to 'port also incorporates the ability to shift planes as accurately as a standard teleport. It makes it much more imperative to fix the wrongs they've done when their actions result in fiends entering into their homeworld.
#7 uratoh Jan 29, 2005 15:18:10	would they keep their 'call for backup' powers, or lose that too?
#8 sildatorak Jan 29, 2005 18:55:59	Hmm...hadn't thought about that, but I don't believe that they would lose that. I think that falls into a different category of ability since the fiends that are being transported aren't doing it of their own volition.
#9 rickiel Jan 30, 2005 15:47:28	Well, for those fiends that were around and then lost their Greater Teleport ability, they have a way of regaining it... It's just not pleasant. Go to the 'Loths. *looks to see if Shemeska is around* Let's face it, whoever were the cutters were that found that Mael'dur Karsivik thing.... definately not spelled right... moving along, were smart in taking their names off of everyone's minds so they wouldn't be hounded after. Rumor has it though that some fiends are regaining smaller bits of their teleportation ability, and while a fiend could still summon it's friends, those friend's CAN'T summon more friends like they used to be able to do. Hence the cutting of the chains that would usually be used to bring about genocide to some poor Prime world.
#10 Shemeska_the_Marauder Jan 31, 2005 0:22:55	Assume that the 'loths quietly worked to grant the teleportation powers back to both themselves and the other fiends without letting on to what actually happened. However you might also assume that they, not being the Baernaloths who set it all up eons before, perhaps achieved this in an imperfect manner, since the teleportation powers of fiends are worse in 3e. It's not that it all was overwritten, or even intentionally ignored, but more likely it's been minimized, and you're forced to create your own rationale for it, from a lack of reading it by some of the 3e designers (notice I don't use the term 'writer' alot for many of them). ;)
#11 zombiegleemax Jan 31, 2005 10:04:03	I always assumed the Baatezu just captured a Darklore and augmented it for their own purposes. The Devils are nothing if not clever. In all likeliness, Tanarii just decided that walking was not all it was cracked up to be and started teleporting again. Chaos is funny like that. Charon Boatman of the Lower Planes