I've started to notice that there arent very many PrC's for this class, and it is unfortunate. Mystics miss out on the same things as sorceror, no reason to stay in the class. Sorcerors prestige out as soon as possible because they get nothing by staying in their class, which is a shame. Now some people may say stuff like "Well you shouldnt look for power", which may or not be true, but the real problem is that even if I want to be a pure sorceror/mystic, theres nothing even "neat" thats given to them roleplaying wise for staying in. Even if the abilities werent the coolest, but still fleshed out a mystic/sorceror, it would give them a reason to stay in the class. But unfortunately, these two classes only get spells.
While I do like the citadel mystic for mystics, my players unfortunately dont get to utilize it much, from them being evil 90% of the time :D . Now some people may say.. yea well thats what you get.. I find it hard to believe every mystic running around is a citadel mystic. The Knight of the Skull is another nice prestige class. But, that leaves us at two. Unfortunately, most divine PrC's are designed for clerics who have gods, which leaves a lot of mystics lacking.
I got excited about the new books coming out focusing on Clerics, but then realized that the PrC's will be about as useless as the other ones, when it comes to mystics. I just was wondering if anyone really found any PrC's that helped fleshed out their character, or does everyone just run with the straight mystic or citadel mystic? I hope to see more things geared to the Campaign Setting specific class because it would be a shame for this class to lose out when its unique to the world.
The chorister from War of the Lance is great for mystics. If you think about it, the PHB says that a bard's music comes from the heart. Apply that to the chorister, and that is literally true, coming from the power of the heart.
I got excited about the new books coming out focusing on Clerics, but then realized that the PrC's will be about as useless as the other ones, when it comes to mystics.
Not necessarily. Although I agree that the Towers of High Sorcery is fairly useless for sorcerers. There are a few PrCs and ideas that are sorcerer friendly. One can only assume that HOotS will have some, too.
BTW, as far as "stealing" the mystic for other settings, I think it would work better than a cleric for Dark Sun. Pick an elemental domain, don't worry about a second one, and it fits the theme fairly well.
I guess I'm looking for PrC's that are a little bit more general. I know some people may not want PrC's like that, but personally I think it helps distinguish classes. Maybe a healer PrC that can be taken by a mystic or cleric, some kind of militant mystic, etc. I'm not saying I am looking for these exactly, just using them as examples.
Again I like to look to PrC's when it comes to sorcerors, wizards, clerics, and mystics because when it comes down to it, these classes just have no reason to not prestige. And I'm not talking about "cool abilities" per se, there isnt even little neat things that they get.
I just hope in the future there is consideration given to mystics, considering other classes have a plethra of books to look in in order to PrC if they so wish.
Dragonhelm, I agree that the mystic would work well with Dark Sun. But the class is a little lacking in any CS because after first level, they have nothing to look foward to except spells. It'd be nice if a CS book would come out for Dark Sun
The two articles in Dungeon and Dragon just don't cut it. athas.org is fine, but as I've said before, I like to see "official" stuff just because I'm way way more likely to use it. I'm actually proud of myself, I actually printed off something from the Nexus and may even use it. One of my players wants to maybe play an Aurak, so I downloaded the monster classes for all the draconians, even noble draconians.I have to agree with them, the class does seems a little underpowered when placed next to the cleric, but I told them it's a great roleplaying class but was scoffed at. Whatcha ya gonna do? Can't force them to play it and expect a good game.
I have to agree with them, the class does seems a little underpowered when placed next to the cleric, but I told them it's a great roleplaying class but was scoffed at. Whatcha ya gonna do? Can't force them to play it and expect a good game.
I somewhat agree. The mystic needs a little more a kick to it. The Favored Soul (mentioned above) would be a great guide line (if not an alternative) for what types of abilities that could be added to the mystic.
Just my two pieces of steel.
THe Mystic to me screams "multiclass", and I'd have to agree with Koranith that its potential lies largely in roleplaying potential. I played a Barbarian 3/Mystic 3 pregen at GenCon 2003, and she kicked butt six ways from Sunday. I roleplayed her as if she wouldn't call herslef a Mystic, or even agree that she had any magical power at all. From her point of view she simply invoked her ancestors, an they listened (ie If she mutters "Ancestors defend me..." as she catches first sight of a red dragon, she effectively casts Protection From Evil.) She had no idea why they listened to her and not, say, her brother.
Do you guys see this as a common theme when mystics are played in your games?
BTW, I also forgot to mention the Citadel Guardian from Dragonlance.com as a good mystic PrC. So that brings our list up to...
Chorister
Citadel Guardian
Citadel Mystic
Knight of the Skull
Knight of the Sword (pre-WoS 5th age primarily)
Knight of the Rose (pre-WoS 5th age primarily)
Legion Mystic
Mystic Theurge
Nomad Shaman
Note that the Sword and Rose Knights would typically favor clerics in eras where clerics are available. They would take in mystics primarily during the early 5th age. After the War of Souls...that's iffy. I would say that they're traditional enough that they'd switch to clerics, although a few stragglers may be around still, especially among the younger generation.
Seekers of Oblivion
While I do like the citadel mystic for mystics, my players unfortunately dont get to utilize it much, from them being evil 90% of the time . Now some people may say.. yea well thats what you get.. I find it hard to believe every mystic running around is a citadel mystic.
Well the DragonLance campaign setting is not really geared towards evil PCs anyway. Out of all of the D&D settings I have on my shelf, I would say that DragonLance is the best setting for the "Knight in shining armor/goody two shoes" approach. That is probably why I have a problem with it. I don't find it too realistic, everyone is either overly compassionate(The chic that died defending Qualinesti), overly evil(Takhisis, Mina, etc), or overly isolated(such as the elves). You need a mix of emotions. A bad guy is not going to always be extremely bad. DL has people so dedicated to one thing that they seem like automatons. In real life, even the vilest person does a good deed every now and then.
Why do your players always want to play evil characters ? I could understand maybe one or two evil PCs but a whole group of them, in "DragonLance" ? It just seems like that DragonLance rigidity rearing its head again.
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The Complete Divine introduces a whole host of good prestige classes which would work well for mystics, such as the black flame zealot, contemplative (a good way to get another domain or two), divine oracle, entropomancer, geomancer (if partnered with sorcerer, makes an excellent villain!), hospitaler, sacred fist (especially good for mystics with channeling or meditation), or the void disciple (nasty if you replace the void with Chaos).
I don't think suitable prestige classes are in short supply! I would accept any of the above in one of my Dragonlance campaigns.
Cheers,
Cam
Good prestige class choices for mystics from the DMG include the heirophant (higher level mystics, obviously),
I thought the heirophant required a connection with a deity. How does that work with the mystic class?
I thought the heirophant required a connection with a deity. How does that work with the mystic class?
Some of their abilities do, but only in the sense that they require the ability to turn undead. Some require you to be a druid. Others have nothing to do with your deity specifically. There's nothing in the requirements that say you need to have an actual deity in order to take the class, which is probably because there's nothing in core D&D that says a cleric needs a deity anyway (they can be clerics of a philosophy, for example).
In Dragonlance, a mystic heirophant is one who has achieved true mastery of their mysticism. It'd be suitable for any player character who's made it all the way to 14th level. They can choose from blast infidel, divine reach, faith healing, or a metamagic feat without problems. Spell-like ability is an interesting choice, since it turns one of their spontaneous spell slots into a spell-like ability they can use twice a day, along with other benefits. Very nice indeed! And mystics with Sun or Necromancy should be allowed to use gift of the divine and mastery of energy (even though it says it's open only to characters with cleric levels).
Cheers,
Cam
Base classes can contribute to a character's identity just as much as a prestige class does. In a campaign that I'm in as a player I have a multiclassed Paladin/Wizard. It's a fun combo, and gives me a lot of cool roleplaying opportunities.
LoI, yea I never really got that Dragonlance wasnt for evil PC's. I know everyone else says they see the "knight in shining armor" thing and all that, but personally I find Good as depressing. With the way the Balance is set up, why even try? Evil's still coming right around the cornor. Heck they cant even hope for a "good world" because the balance already decrees it wont happen. At least in our real world we can "hope" the world will eventually be good. This is one reason why I dont subscribe to the "Balance is always there" theory. I follow the "neutral people strive for balance" and good people seek the "good world" and evil ppl seek to dominate. There is no "given". Neutral people really do believe there needs to be a Balance. Good people understand evil is there, but try to lesson it as much as possible. It annoys the crap out of me at the end of Chronicles when Fizban says there must be a Balance. Why in the world does a god of good actively believe there *has* to be as much evil as good. Beh..
Anyways, there are lots and lots of evil people in Dragonlance. To me, its not much of a stretch that many of them adventure and do things. And as you said, even evil people do good deeds. My PC's do good things a lot actually. My brother specifically makes an effort to save people in need. I've seen my PC's make donations to poor people, etc. On the other side though, they buy slaves, try to rip off people they dont like, will murder people they hate, etc. Two of my players are new to D&D and just starting to get into it. They really do want to do whatever they want. I find it stupid to sit there and say stuff like (in a whiney voice)"buuuuuuuutt you have to be *goooooood*, your character wouldnt *doooo thaaaaattt*" Let them do whatever they want, all it can do is add to the fun. They do some fun things and have a blast doing it. Two of my players have played and can play good characters just fine. But with the other two playing evil, why sit and argue all day if one of your ppl is a paladin and cant let things happen? As I said before, they still do plenty of good things. Its the extra things every once in awhile that keep them from being good. Eben, the guy who traveled with the Companions and eventually betrayed them I consider an example of a possible evil PC. Not every PC has to have the "we have to save the world or princess" hook. My players adventure for riches, fame, sometimes just plain killing, etc. They are actually really greedy, so its easy to get them motivated if they think its possible to find gold and magical items heh. They are currently working for the Conclave, tracking down Sable's lairs. Dalamar and the rest of the WoHS would like to get back the magical items that Sable has been hoarding over the years. My brother is a Black Robe and very loyal to the WoHS. Hes hoping for a Conclave seat, so its pretty interesting to watch him make sure everything is always accounted for.
I think pretty soon the group will go for more of a neutral attitude, with there probably being a Knight of Solamnia in there somewhere. My brother is clamoring to play one, so I'm sure I'll see one soon. I'd love to see him play a neutral knight(which means I'm actually clamoring to do so now that I saw the offical stats for Crownguard), but I know he wants what the other people on the boards call "a true knight". So who knows.
Ferrum_Angel, while I agree that a person doesnt have to PrC, wouldnt it be nice if they could if they want to? Personally I like the extra abilities that a PrC gives and believe it actually adds flavor. Other people get enough just out of a class. I really do believe each class should be like the monk/druid/rogue/barbarian, where they get something almost every level and have reasons to go up as straight in their class. And if you prestige, you get other abilities, but lose out on others. Spellcasting classes are really lacking when it comes to that. I personally find it a shame and look for PrC's to do these things. Other people think PrC's are too abundant, and thats their opinion.
I just hope in the future mystics arent forgotten about because personally most of the other classes can check other books in order to find things that go along with them. The mystic is pretty much a Dragonlance creation(not counting the favored soul) and I hope to see more things that highlight and enhance mystics.
I thought the heirophant required a connection with a deity. How does that work with the mystic class?
Well so does the Chorister.
"A Chorister is a follower of a deity who channels that deity's power through sacred music and reverence."
Now I do know that not every one has and\or is willing to use non-DL stuff but the Complete Divine has some cool PRCs in there that the mystic can use.
Contemplative - Increases spellcasting (every level), grants access to a bonus domain at 1st and 6th, no need for a deific connection, and abilities about every other level.
Divine Oracle - Increases spellcasting (every level), grants access to the Oracle Domain at 1st, gives uncanny dodge, and other premenition type abilities.
Entropomancer - Increases spellcasting (every other level), gives magic attack.
Geomancer - This is another Mys\Sor-Wiz (multiclass)
Increases spellcasting for either, chosen at each level (every level), may decide which attribute to use for saves on spells he casts (some limitations), Slowly becomes a creature of nature, more skill points per level. One might even be able to avoid the WoHS wrath by going Wiz3\Mys4\Geomancer 10 (just put all the increased spellcasting into Mys so you would Caster Levels of Wiz3\Mys14).
Hospitaleer - Increases spellcasting (almost every level, skips 1 level every 3), grants figter bonus feats every 4 levels, lay on hands, Remove Disease ability (similiar to paladin), fighter attack bonus.
Sacred Fist - Increases spellcasting (almost every level, skips 1 level every 3), grants monk abilities and multiclassing with Monk, more skills pointes per level.
Void Disciple - Increases spellcasting (erractic progression, but at least every other level), other skills.
War priest - Increases spellcasting (every other level), grants a bonus domain (limited choice), fighter base attack progression, other fighting abilities.
Now I only listed classes that increased spellcasting rather than granting a new list of spells, as well as other PRCs that needed some adaption. Some of the above classes might be a little hard for a mystic to qualify for but it can be done should the player want it bad enough.
I have played a mystic and to be honest I went looking for classes that not increased my spellcasting at a fair progression rate, but also granted access to bonus Doamins (which is why I liked the contemplative).
The mystic I played actually started as a Cleric of Kiri-Jolith but due to chance (Deck of many Things) she found herself facing death at the hands of Sargonnas if she could'nt prove her worth to him, she wound up switching faiths in order to survive going from Kiri-Jolith to Sargonnas to Hiddukel, and finally coming to realize that she survived through her own ingenuity rather than a faith in the gods and she went through an epiphany to become a mystic. She wound up being a Mys 6\Ftr 1\Divine Oracle 2, working towards Contemplative when I finally left the campaign.
We were playing on Taladas a few years after the War of Souls. And no I was not the DM.
With so many things like Dragons, magic, and monsters, I find it quite funny, that some people's biggest difficulty is accepting that good and evil are a little exaggerated. That’s not something that’s only true of Dragonlance, but Dungeons and Dragons as a whole. It is a game where you play heroes and save the world.
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Now I do know that not every one has and\or is willing to use non-DL stuff but the Complete Divine has some cool PRCs in there that the mystic can use.
Um, yes. Like I mentioned in my post, above.
Cheers,
Cam
You can have your Academy Sorcerer and Citadel Mystic...this PrC embodies the 5th Age Sorcerer and Mystic better than any other class or PrC that they have created.
Shame on you all for forgetting about it. ;)
Who wants realism? The middle ages weren't some magical time full of adventure, they were miserable times filled with death.
Don't be too negative about it, as it depends on the time and place that you lived. You could live your entire life quite contented in the middle ages if you were lucky (had a good lord, good weather, good farmland) etc. just as you can suffer very harshly in this present time (if you are poverty stricken, ruled by an inept and/or corrupt government, in the middle of a disease outbreak, urbanized) etc.
Has anyone had their players look at both and decide one was better than the other? The Favored Soul would even be able to use most cleric PrC's also because of having a deity and such.
Maybe I should have my players look over the Favored Soul a little bit. I'm just interested in other people's experiences.
I'd say use one or the other. Either have the Favored Soul as a replacement for the Mystic and change the "needs a deity" mechanic, or just stick with the DLCS Mystic.
Thats just IMO.
That character eventually left, and the player created a new one (a dwarf ranger) who satisfies the player's urges for a really competent front-line combatant, but the half-kender was a great addition to the party early on.
I'm very fond of the favored soul. It doesn't have a domain, it's really sort of the god's "chosen one". I don't have a problem with its spontaneous casting ability - the way I see it, those spells the favored soul knows are more like specific divine powers granted to him by his deity, rather than the usual prepared effects of clerics or the ambient spellcasting of mystics.
Cheers,
Cam
That being said, I don't allow it for my own Dragonlance games. I like to keep the distinction that focused spellcasters prepare spells and ambient spellcasters don't. The favored soul blurs this line by taking power from a deity, yet not preparing spells. This is also why I don't allow the arcane preparation feat (or whatever it is called).
I also don't feel that it is wise having three classes total that utilize the same spell list. A spell list is part of what shapes a class, and again, the line is blurred. As it is, I'm going to be using Shugi's alternate mystic spell list if mystics are used in my games.
That's just my own personal feelings, based on how I perceive Dragonlance. Other players may find the favored soul to be a great class for DL, and I can definitely see it being used for Habbakuk (as Cam mentioned). Imagine gaining wings as per the class, and they were blue fiery phoenix wings.