Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wyvern76 Feb 06, 2005 22:01:13	I've seen comments in previous threads to the effect that Sword & Sorcery's Masque of the Red Death borrows heavily from the Living Death rules. Could someone please elaborate on this? Just how similar or different are they, particularly with regard to the class rules? The classes are the part I'm most interested in seeing, but the ones in the Living Death rules just don't grab me -- they seem too narrowly-defined. I also really dislike what they did with the skill rules. The reviews I've read of MotRD suggest that it has broad classes with several variants of each, but how do the actual mechanics work? Are the subclasses created by "tweaking" the basic structure of the core class, or is each one more like a class unto itself? Wyvern
#2 Mortepierre Feb 07, 2005 1:38:08	Check out its review in the "Drawing Room" section of the FoS website: (especially those written by Igor and Jester) http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Main%20Page.htm
#3 wyvern76 Feb 07, 2005 21:47:35	Check out its review in the "Drawing Room" section of the FoS website: (especially those written by Igor and Jester) http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Main%20Page.htm Thanks for the tip, but I've already read that review (it's about the only one I've been able to find). The problem is, the description of the classes there gives the impression that they're all variations on a small group of basic classes, whereas the comments I've seen here say that Sword & Sorcery borrowed heavily from the Living Death rules, in which all the classes seem to be separate and unrelated. (Then again, maybe I need to take a closer look at the classes in Living Death.) I was hoping someone could clear up this apparent contradiction. Are the classes in the S&S book different from the ones in Living Death? Or am I making faulty assumptions about the Living Death classes? Wyvern
#4 keg_of_ale Feb 09, 2005 20:22:49	Though I've never played Living Death, from the comments gathered prior and after the release of Masque, I am fairly certain the class system in the book is a new one, that is, six basic classes, each having three or so "variants" with slightly different abilities, to reflect a different niche. I think I remember reading a post here where a long-time Living Death fan didn't like how S&S strayed from it.
#5 coan Feb 10, 2005 5:46:42	Living Death rules have many many classes. MotRD 3.5 Ed. has (as Mr Ale says) 6 classes with variations -ending up wtih 18 or 20 (?) different classes to choose from. The amount of variation between a sub class and its major class does change. However to me it is safe to say that they cover roughly any idea of a character you could ever want. They are broad enough to cover an idea but refined enough so that you can take directions on which class best suits your character concept. Some of thethe classes are similar to those in Living Death (in so far as concept and skill bonuses at levels) however many are different to Living Death classes with additional rules and expansions on abilities.
#6 wyvern76 Feb 13, 2005 21:21:01	Living Death rules have many many classes. MotRD 3.5 Ed. has (as Mr Ale says) 6 classes with variations -ending up wtih 18 or 20 (?) different classes to choose from. The amount of variation between a sub class and its major class does change. However to me it is safe to say that they cover roughly any idea of a character you could ever want. They are broad enough to cover an idea but refined enough so that you can take directions on which class best suits your character concept. Some of thethe classes are similar to those in Living Death (in so far as concept and skill bonuses at levels) however many are different to Living Death classes with additional rules and expansions on abilities. Thanks (and thanks to Keg of Ale too). It sounds like the S&S version is pretty much how I had hoped. Wyvern
#7 zombiegleemax Feb 17, 2005 1:55:26	I'm going to disagree. I was probably the long time LD player who was critical of the MotRD book. Its not a bad book and if you're not familiar with the Living Death campaign then its a great buy to update anything you have from the 2E version of Masque. But for reasons I've posted elsewhere I don't think it brings much that hasn't already been covered by LD. There are differences between the MotRD classes and the Living Death rules but you'll have to look to find them. Many use the same names and have very similiar skills and abilities. For example you'll find an Adept a Metaphysician and a Charlatan in both systems. In LD they all exist as arcane specasters side by side. In MotRD they're presented as varients of the core Adept. In LD the Athlete, Explorer, and Soldier (enlisted) all exist side by side. In Masque the later are "varients" of the former. The Charlatan is different in Masque being trated more as a bard. I liked what they did with it. On the other hand Masque has a "shootist" class and one soldier class, while LD has two variations of soldier (enlisted and officer). The masque version of Soldier is the enlisted soldier which formed the basis of most "gunslingers" in the campaign (ie does the same thing as the shootist). I don't particularly like the Masque division. The officer as a less shoot-them-up and more of a skills person was a more interesting combination IMO. Many of the prestige classes are exactly the same such as the Exorcist, Forbiden Loremaster and Undead Hunter. Only a few are new like the Antique Hunter. The skills are almost exactly the same except what was demolitions or cryptography is now Knowledge: demolitions and Knowledge: Cryptography. In short if you didn't like LD I suspect you won't like 3.5 Masque. As a great fan of LD though I suggest you take a look anyway - perhaps it will grab you this time round in its new red book packaging. -Eric Gorman
#8 coan Feb 17, 2005 5:05:43	I do not agree. While the Living Death rules and new rules share simularities I think their differences set them apart enough. However one thing that hasn't been touched on are the additional things included in the new book. New Monsters, rules for those monsters, Villians and guides to making an adventure and campaign. How much did LD cover for powers checks for casting spells?
#9 zombiegleemax Feb 18, 2005 4:59:06	I do not agree. While the Living Death rules and new rules share simularities I think their differences set them apart enough. However one thing that hasn't been touched on are the additional things included in the new book. New Monsters, rules for those monsters, Villians and guides to making an adventure and campaign. How much did LD cover for powers checks for casting spells? Well for example the Foreigners first appeared in the LD module Insomnia (kudos to Lilavivta for the single best RPGA module I played and judged) - though I admit they are modified somewhat from the bizare quasi-illithid ghosts originally portaid in that module. Though the exterior has been changed (perhaps because illithid are no longer in the SRD?) the mechanics and flavor are exactly the same. I believe the Horla has also made an appearance as well... What about other sections. The Atlas? As one example the idea that there is an undead Civil War general making a haven for undead in the deep south comes straight from the camapaign. LD. Magic? The power check system for casting spells is essentially identical to LD. The rogues gallery? Trust me Imhoptep (and True Immortals) is near the core of the LD campaign. Thanks again Rucht. When my PC isn't being Hunted or threatened with becoming his Red Pawn, or I'm tearing my hair out in general its a great addition. The similiarities aren't that surprsing since Rucht Lilivavet has been a significant contributer to LD and Claire Hoffman (another designer) runs and administers the campaign. I loved the original MotRD. I love LD. I was really ready to love the 3.5 version of Masque. But much like I dislike the RL PHB as a retread of of the RL CS, I feel the current Masque product is not different enough, or presented in a nice enough format to warrent $35.00, especially when LD is avaialble to down load for free at Livingdeath.org -Eric Gorman
#10 The_Jester Feb 18, 2005 12:07:10	A free download for anyone who has the internet ($25 a month plus printing costs). Or knows about the Living Death world and the RPGA or let alone the fact the rules are available (I didn't until well into my Ravenloft net career). Until the MotRD hardcover brought the topic up again I think most people forgot about the Red Death except those already in the know. Besides, even though I already had the original boxed set and my downloaded copies of the rules I still bought the HC new book. Why? Because I'm a fan of the setting and wish to support it and not see it die. I want more Ravenloft dammit!
#11 coan Feb 19, 2005 21:11:36	A good point Jester. It doesn't matter so much on what we think is the better version when the underlying fact is that Masque is an excellent setting and will hopefully continue -thereby causing more people to become aware of it.
#12 zombiegleemax Feb 24, 2005 2:35:04	A good point Jester. It doesn't matter so much on what we think is the better version when the underlying fact is that Masque is an excellent setting and will hopefully continue -thereby causing more people to become aware of it. On this all three of us agree. -Eric Gorman