Exalted & Vile in Ravenloft - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Exalted & Vile in Ravenloft

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zemobiel
Feb 10, 2005 7:59:21 What would you think of using the rules fond in the book of Exalted Deed and Book of Vile Darkness
#2
jesterjeff
Feb 10, 2005 8:33:56 seems like a perfect fit in my opinion. Ravenloft is a horror campaign, vile deeds is the perfect book for powerful foes. Likewise Exalted deeds offers the PCs a fighting chance, just as long as ya remember that they should always face stronger foes.....ravenloft is a prison for evil.
#3
zemobiel
Feb 10, 2005 9:00:19 thats was what i have think, in your opinion do you think the Exalted prestige class must be exclusive to the innocent?
#4
malus_black
Feb 10, 2005 9:13:54 Keep in mind that the BoVD concentrates on 'icky' evil - blood, gore, demon lords - while Ravenloft is a far more subtle kind of evil. That said, I think you can put both books to good use in Ravenloft. Also, the Ravenloft book Heroes of Light, while not perfect, deals with such issues, and introduces the concept of Blessed characters.

do you think the Exalted prestige class must be exclusive to the innocent?

Not really, as exalted characters will be making horror saves on a near daily basis. Fail one moderate save, and that's it.

Also, I'd consider giving every Exalted character the Paladin's Disruption ability.
#5
zemobiel
Feb 10, 2005 9:53:16 i see, it's sure all that is very logical, and yes i think i will aply to them the Paladin Disruption ability
#6
gonzoron
Feb 10, 2005 10:00:02 You don't lose innocence from failing a horror save, AFAIK. Only failing a powers check, right? (Important for me to know, since a True Innocent is joining my group next week.)
#7
malus_black
Feb 10, 2005 10:42:00
You don't lose innocence from failing a horror save, AFAIK. Only failing a powers check, right? (Important for me to know, since a True Innocent is joining my group next week.)

Afraid not.
You immediately lose all effects of Innocence if you ever fail to meet the above prerequisites or if you ever suffer a moderate or major Horror or Madness effect. You may also voluntarily lose your Innocence at any time. Once lost, however, Innocence can never be regained.

#8
zemobiel
Feb 10, 2005 11:25:38 humm i just read the part about innocence this morning and they have clearly say thats if in a effect of horror, fear, or madness cant make someone lose her innocence because he must do the thing whit her mind clear as her own choice, as for character under the mind affecting spells
#9
gonzoron
Feb 10, 2005 19:05:42 Hmm, what do you know, you're right. It's in the RCS, page 87. (And I misspoke before, it's if you ever have to roll a powers check, whether you succeed or fail).

Although, Heroes of Light doesn't mention horror or madness having an effect on Innocence in its description of Innocent on page 8. (But then, it is HoL, so I take it with a grain of salt.)

I can see the reasoning behind it (how "innocent" can you be after watching a ghoul dine on a rotting corpse) but it seems too harsh, and out of the player's control, especially with the Innocent's inherent -2 to horror checks. I think in my game, I'll ignore that rule (or just suspend the Innocence while the horror effect persists), espcially since I'm allowing the True Innocent class. It would really suck for the player to revert to a commoner just because my adventure involves something horrific.
#10
Mortepierre
Feb 11, 2005 1:44:22 Back in the days of the Kargatane website, "Azalin" answered a lot of questions about how to adapt the BoVD to RL. I really wish they gave us back access to that file
#11
awakenings
Feb 11, 2005 8:27:04
I can see the reasoning behind it (how "innocent" can you be after watching a ghoul dine on a rotting corpse) but it seems too harsh, and out of the player's control, especially with the Innocent's inherent -2 to horror checks. I think in my game, I'll ignore that rule (or just suspend the Innocence while the horror effect persists), espcially since I'm allowing the True Innocent class. It would really suck for the player to revert to a commoner just because my adventure involves something horrific.

I can see how it's a little harsh, but IMO being truly Innocent means you trust the world to take care of you. Failing a Horror check would mean you've figured out that it doesn't.

As for the True Innocent, I'd rule that because it's a prestige class, it's harder to lose. Taking levels in this means your innocence is 'stickier.' I don't have the books, but I'd probably rule that character regains lost innocence over time, unless it's lost via rolling a Powers Check. While the innocence is lost, the character cannot use some or all prestige class abilities.
#12
gonzoron
Feb 11, 2005 11:13:42 The class makes no provision for regaining innocence. If you lose you Innocnece, all your TI levels revert to commoner levels. (Not that the TI's abilities are that fantastic anyway.) In my case, the character is a 5th level TI with 1 level of fey bloodline (from UA). So she already is extremely weak compared to the other characters who are 7th level in mostly PC classes. She will be relying on her Bodyguard Cohort (Ftr2/Clr2/Mnk1) in battle.

Dropping her down to a 5th level commoner permanently would just be no fun for the player. If she does something power check worthy, of course, that's another story. But for a horror check, I'd just make it temporary, I think.

In character, I think I'd play it as her being too distracted by the horrific event to focus on her powers. Once she's "over it," her powers return. This would probably take the form of a mental block around the incident. If too many accumulate, it might be grounds for a madness check.

Like you said, I might rule differently if it was just a character who decided to be Innocent, but didn't take the TI class.
#13
MidwayHaven
Feb 15, 2005 3:15:02 There'd be complications for using the Vile/Exalted feats, as they all say that they could only be granted by respective gods/demons/angels of Evil/Good. Or at least that's how I think it works. :D
#14
zombiegleemax
Feb 20, 2005 1:58:37 I would be under the impression that the powers that be would definitely be rather perturbed by any exalted person being in their realm, and would certainly detect anything like an Aasimar, or a exalted cleric. you have to remember that the 'gods' of this world are evil, and do not allow outside sources to butt in.
#15
Prof._Pacali
Feb 21, 2005 13:55:48 Some of the Vile feats might be good as "rewards" for failing DP checks. A few examples include Willing Deformity, and the other Deformity feats. Instead of needing to supplicate oneself to a Demon Prince to take the Thrall To Demon feat, perhaps a visit from the Gentleman Caller might suffice. The rules for drugs in the BoVD are appropriate for domains like Hazlan, which already has opium addicts. The rules for torture devices are better than the paltry ones in CoD, and would be good for the minions of Drakov or Mallochio. Some of the spells from BoVD might be used by villains in RL. In addition, paladins might be able to detect possessors of vile feats the way they can detect fiends.

As for the BoED, anyone taking an exalted feat, or casting an exalted spell should cause disruption in the domain, as a paladin of their level.
#16
manindarkness
Feb 21, 2005 13:56:58 The Dark Powers are not necesarily evil. They even don not necesarily exist. Scholars tend to think they are, but nobody knows for sure.

On the matter of vile characters, do you think a kind of disruption is applicable? Like darklords detecting would be competitors?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zemobiel Feb 10, 2005 7:59:21	What would you think of using the rules fond in the book of Exalted Deed and Book of Vile Darkness
#2 jesterjeff Feb 10, 2005 8:33:56	seems like a perfect fit in my opinion. Ravenloft is a horror campaign, vile deeds is the perfect book for powerful foes. Likewise Exalted deeds offers the PCs a fighting chance, just as long as ya remember that they should always face stronger foes.....ravenloft is a prison for evil.
#3 zemobiel Feb 10, 2005 9:00:19	thats was what i have think, in your opinion do you think the Exalted prestige class must be exclusive to the innocent?
#4 malus_black Feb 10, 2005 9:13:54	Keep in mind that the BoVD concentrates on 'icky' evil - blood, gore, demon lords - while Ravenloft is a far more subtle kind of evil. That said, I think you can put both books to good use in Ravenloft. Also, the Ravenloft book Heroes of Light, while not perfect, deals with such issues, and introduces the concept of Blessed characters. do you think the Exalted prestige class must be exclusive to the innocent? Not really, as exalted characters will be making horror saves on a near daily basis. Fail one moderate save, and that's it. Also, I'd consider giving every Exalted character the Paladin's Disruption ability.
#5 zemobiel Feb 10, 2005 9:53:16	i see, it's sure all that is very logical, and yes i think i will aply to them the Paladin Disruption ability
#6 gonzoron Feb 10, 2005 10:00:02	You don't lose innocence from failing a horror save, AFAIK. Only failing a powers check, right? (Important for me to know, since a True Innocent is joining my group next week.)
#7 malus_black Feb 10, 2005 10:42:00	You don't lose innocence from failing a horror save, AFAIK. Only failing a powers check, right? (Important for me to know, since a True Innocent is joining my group next week.) Afraid not. You immediately lose all effects of Innocence if you ever fail to meet the above prerequisites or if you ever suffer a moderate or major Horror or Madness effect. You may also voluntarily lose your Innocence at any time. Once lost, however, Innocence can never be regained.
#8 zemobiel Feb 10, 2005 11:25:38	humm i just read the part about innocence this morning and they have clearly say thats if in a effect of horror, fear, or madness cant make someone lose her innocence because he must do the thing whit her mind clear as her own choice, as for character under the mind affecting spells
#9 gonzoron Feb 10, 2005 19:05:42	Hmm, what do you know, you're right. It's in the RCS, page 87. (And I misspoke before, it's if you ever have to roll a powers check, whether you succeed or fail). Although, Heroes of Light doesn't mention horror or madness having an effect on Innocence in its description of Innocent on page 8. (But then, it is HoL, so I take it with a grain of salt.) I can see the reasoning behind it (how "innocent" can you be after watching a ghoul dine on a rotting corpse) but it seems too harsh, and out of the player's control, especially with the Innocent's inherent -2 to horror checks. I think in my game, I'll ignore that rule (or just suspend the Innocence while the horror effect persists), espcially since I'm allowing the True Innocent class. It would really suck for the player to revert to a commoner just because my adventure involves something horrific.
#10 Mortepierre Feb 11, 2005 1:44:22	Back in the days of the Kargatane website, "Azalin" answered a lot of questions about how to adapt the BoVD to RL. I really wish they gave us back access to that file
#11 awakenings Feb 11, 2005 8:27:04	I can see the reasoning behind it (how "innocent" can you be after watching a ghoul dine on a rotting corpse) but it seems too harsh, and out of the player's control, especially with the Innocent's inherent -2 to horror checks. I think in my game, I'll ignore that rule (or just suspend the Innocence while the horror effect persists), espcially since I'm allowing the True Innocent class. It would really suck for the player to revert to a commoner just because my adventure involves something horrific. I can see how it's a little harsh, but IMO being truly Innocent means you trust the world to take care of you. Failing a Horror check would mean you've figured out that it doesn't. As for the True Innocent, I'd rule that because it's a prestige class, it's harder to lose. Taking levels in this means your innocence is 'stickier.' I don't have the books, but I'd probably rule that character regains lost innocence over time, unless it's lost via rolling a Powers Check. While the innocence is lost, the character cannot use some or all prestige class abilities.
#12 gonzoron Feb 11, 2005 11:13:42	The class makes no provision for regaining innocence. If you lose you Innocnece, all your TI levels revert to commoner levels. (Not that the TI's abilities are that fantastic anyway.) In my case, the character is a 5th level TI with 1 level of fey bloodline (from UA). So she already is extremely weak compared to the other characters who are 7th level in mostly PC classes. She will be relying on her Bodyguard Cohort (Ftr2/Clr2/Mnk1) in battle. Dropping her down to a 5th level commoner permanently would just be no fun for the player. If she does something power check worthy, of course, that's another story. But for a horror check, I'd just make it temporary, I think. In character, I think I'd play it as her being too distracted by the horrific event to focus on her powers. Once she's "over it," her powers return. This would probably take the form of a mental block around the incident. If too many accumulate, it might be grounds for a madness check. Like you said, I might rule differently if it was just a character who decided to be Innocent, but didn't take the TI class.
#13 MidwayHaven Feb 15, 2005 3:15:02	There'd be complications for using the Vile/Exalted feats, as they all say that they could only be granted by respective gods/demons/angels of Evil/Good. Or at least that's how I think it works. :D
#14 zombiegleemax Feb 20, 2005 1:58:37	I would be under the impression that the powers that be would definitely be rather perturbed by any exalted person being in their realm, and would certainly detect anything like an Aasimar, or a exalted cleric. you have to remember that the 'gods' of this world are evil, and do not allow outside sources to butt in.
#15 Prof._Pacali Feb 21, 2005 13:55:48	Some of the Vile feats might be good as "rewards" for failing DP checks. A few examples include Willing Deformity, and the other Deformity feats. Instead of needing to supplicate oneself to a Demon Prince to take the Thrall To Demon feat, perhaps a visit from the Gentleman Caller might suffice. The rules for drugs in the BoVD are appropriate for domains like Hazlan, which already has opium addicts. The rules for torture devices are better than the paltry ones in CoD, and would be good for the minions of Drakov or Mallochio. Some of the spells from BoVD might be used by villains in RL. In addition, paladins might be able to detect possessors of vile feats the way they can detect fiends. As for the BoED, anyone taking an exalted feat, or casting an exalted spell should cause disruption in the domain, as a paladin of their level.
#16 manindarkness Feb 21, 2005 13:56:58	The Dark Powers are not necesarily evil. They even don not necesarily exist. Scholars tend to think they are, but nobody knows for sure. On the matter of vile characters, do you think a kind of disruption is applicable? Like darklords detecting would be competitors?