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Vistani and Dark Powers...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Feb 13, 2005 20:09:53 I'm reading an old Ravenloft novel. I know these boards aren't for discussing the books, but I suppose these questions are pretty integral to the setting.

Who are the Vistani? What is their connection to Strahd?

What are the Dark Powers?

Thanks.

-Angus
#2
Mortepierre
Feb 14, 2005 3:02:35
Who are the Vistani?

A gypsy-like culture endowed with peculiar abilities in curses, divination and path-finding. They travel in caravans.

What is their connection to Strahd?

Not all Vistani are connected to Strahd but those who live in Barovia have struck a bargain with him. They are allowed to wander his domain without being harmed (Strahd protecting them from both monsters and the natives) but in return they 'spy' for him and won't offer their help to his enemies.

What are the Dark Powers?

No one knows for sure. Heck, very few even know about them! There is no official answer to that but hundreds of fan's ideas. In a way, that's why there can't be a canon answer. If there was, it would most likely disappoint many fans.

Clearly, they have powers above and beyond anyone in the Land of Mist. They are capable of the best as of the worst, though more often the latter than the former. Beyond that, your guess is as good as anyone's.
#3
gonzoron
Feb 14, 2005 9:47:21
No one knows for sure. Heck, very few even know about them! There is no official answer to that but hundreds of fan's ideas. In a way, that's why there can't be a canon answer. If there was, it would most likely disappoint many fans.

All true, but I think his question may have been more fundamental. In case I'm right: The Dark Powers are the creators of the demiplane of Ravenloft. They "reward" and punish evil creatures in varying degress, up to and including bestowing darklordship. They control the Mists, warp magic, cut off direct divine access, empower curses, and strengthen certain monsters. They are what is responsible for making Ravenloft what it is, compared to other worlds.
#4
Mortepierre
Feb 14, 2005 11:24:45 Good point Gonzoron
#5
zombiegleemax
Feb 14, 2005 11:34:06 Van Richten theorized that the Vistani might actually be the Dark Powers....but I seem to be the only person who likes that idea.........just something about the masters sharing a prison with their prisoners, and being subject to their will as well......what could be more gothic than that?!
#6
coan
Feb 14, 2005 17:03:48 Maybe the children or ancestors of the original Dark Powers.
#7
MidwayHaven
Feb 15, 2005 3:27:23 Doesn't some boxed text in page two of the RLDMG say who/what the Dark Powers are?
#8
coan
Feb 15, 2005 6:21:14 I believe it says they are tools of the DM. Oops was that a spoiler

If you wanted a better idea of the Dark Powers read Lord of Necropolis. Declared non-canon it still is a Ravenloft book that gives an idea of what they are.
#9
malus_black
Feb 15, 2005 9:54:33 Personally, I love the introduction to the RLDMG. Easily the best description of the Dark Powers I've read.

"The unseen masters fill their realm with sights both glorious and terrible. They create life and kill innocents. They bathe the night sky in the light of the full moon, raising a chorus of baying wolves. They paint the rosy skies of dawn each morning, sending the minions of darkness scuttling back to their tombs. They reward virtue, but allow evil to torment it. They reward evil, then torment it themselves. They silently observe heroes and villains alike, subtly ensuring that their paths cross. The Realm of Dread is a grand tapestry, woven from threads of mist, shadow and dream, but only the unseen masters can see its patterns in all their awful glory."
#10
zombiegleemax
Feb 17, 2005 2:24:35
Van Richten theorized that the Vistani might actually be the Dark Powers....but I seem to be the only person who likes that idea.........just something about the masters sharing a prison with their prisoners, and being subject to their will as well......what could be more gothic than that?!

I always liked the idea. In one campaign I combined several of the Van Richten "Vistani Myths" so that the lost Vistani King was the first Dukkar, exiled from the universe for mastering time and space in challenge/defiance to the Gods. The most powerful vistani are the descendants of the exiled woman who learned the same abilities to stop the King...and spend time in RL to stop the Dukkar King (as DP) from breaching back into reality. The Darklords are essentially made in his image - trapped in a world where their greastest desire is frustrated.

Certainly the vistani are somehow linked to the Dark Powers since the most powerful of them can move in and out of the mists and choose to remain in RL.

-Eric Gorman
#11
zombiegleemax
Feb 18, 2005 5:55:56
I always liked the idea.
-Eric Gorman

You're the first person I've heard that likes that idea!

I've never put much thought into the specifics, since I think discovering the true idenity of the DPs is beyond a normal Ravenloft campaign (epic maybe).

But I thought that it would be ironic if the Vistani were the DPs. Maybe only the Grandmothers know the truth, and their power works on a subconscience/group mind level.

Maybe that is why the Mallachio is trying to wipe them all out.

I know most people want the DPs to be all powerful, but I think it is much more gothis to have them be tortured and imprisoned the the very creatures they keep locked up.

But of course, everyone should use the DPs as best fits their compaign. I will probably never really reveil who they really are in mine.....but it should be something much more surprising an ironic than just a bunch of evil powers.
#12
zombiegleemax
Feb 18, 2005 6:05:23 Perhaps the Vistani were a group of persecuted and hunted gypsies who cried out to the gods for the power to punish their enemies....the gods granted their request, but the vistani tortured their former enemies in horrible ways......so now they have the power to capture and judge others, but have to live inthe prisons they create for those they judge....and live forever in a world that still despises them.

They have great power to curse others, and control the mists of Ravenloft.
But our powerless against the dark lords they imprison in their lands.

But, that's just a thought.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Feb 13, 2005 20:09:53	I'm reading an old Ravenloft novel. I know these boards aren't for discussing the books, but I suppose these questions are pretty integral to the setting. Who are the Vistani? What is their connection to Strahd? What are the Dark Powers? Thanks. -Angus
#2 Mortepierre Feb 14, 2005 3:02:35	Who are the Vistani? A gypsy-like culture endowed with peculiar abilities in curses, divination and path-finding. They travel in caravans. What is their connection to Strahd? Not all Vistani are connected to Strahd but those who live in Barovia have struck a bargain with him. They are allowed to wander his domain without being harmed (Strahd protecting them from both monsters and the natives) but in return they 'spy' for him and won't offer their help to his enemies. What are the Dark Powers? No one knows for sure. Heck, very few even know about them! There is no official answer to that but hundreds of fan's ideas. In a way, that's why there can't be a canon answer. If there was, it would most likely disappoint many fans. Clearly, they have powers above and beyond anyone in the Land of Mist. They are capable of the best as of the worst, though more often the latter than the former. Beyond that, your guess is as good as anyone's.
#3 gonzoron Feb 14, 2005 9:47:21	No one knows for sure. Heck, very few even know about them! There is no official answer to that but hundreds of fan's ideas. In a way, that's why there can't be a canon answer. If there was, it would most likely disappoint many fans. All true, but I think his question may have been more fundamental. In case I'm right: The Dark Powers are the creators of the demiplane of Ravenloft. They "reward" and punish evil creatures in varying degress, up to and including bestowing darklordship. They control the Mists, warp magic, cut off direct divine access, empower curses, and strengthen certain monsters. They are what is responsible for making Ravenloft what it is, compared to other worlds.
#4 Mortepierre Feb 14, 2005 11:24:45	Good point Gonzoron
#5 zombiegleemax Feb 14, 2005 11:34:06	Van Richten theorized that the Vistani might actually be the Dark Powers....but I seem to be the only person who likes that idea.........just something about the masters sharing a prison with their prisoners, and being subject to their will as well......what could be more gothic than that?!
#6 coan Feb 14, 2005 17:03:48	Maybe the children or ancestors of the original Dark Powers.
#7 MidwayHaven Feb 15, 2005 3:27:23	Doesn't some boxed text in page two of the RLDMG say who/what the Dark Powers are?
#8 coan Feb 15, 2005 6:21:14	I believe it says they are tools of the DM. Oops was that a spoiler If you wanted a better idea of the Dark Powers read Lord of Necropolis. Declared non-canon it still is a Ravenloft book that gives an idea of what they are.
#9 malus_black Feb 15, 2005 9:54:33	Personally, I love the introduction to the RLDMG. Easily the best description of the Dark Powers I've read. "The unseen masters fill their realm with sights both glorious and terrible. They create life and kill innocents. They bathe the night sky in the light of the full moon, raising a chorus of baying wolves. They paint the rosy skies of dawn each morning, sending the minions of darkness scuttling back to their tombs. They reward virtue, but allow evil to torment it. They reward evil, then torment it themselves. They silently observe heroes and villains alike, subtly ensuring that their paths cross. The Realm of Dread is a grand tapestry, woven from threads of mist, shadow and dream, but only the unseen masters can see its patterns in all their awful glory."
#10 zombiegleemax Feb 17, 2005 2:24:35	Van Richten theorized that the Vistani might actually be the Dark Powers....but I seem to be the only person who likes that idea.........just something about the masters sharing a prison with their prisoners, and being subject to their will as well......what could be more gothic than that?! I always liked the idea. In one campaign I combined several of the Van Richten "Vistani Myths" so that the lost Vistani King was the first Dukkar, exiled from the universe for mastering time and space in challenge/defiance to the Gods. The most powerful vistani are the descendants of the exiled woman who learned the same abilities to stop the King...and spend time in RL to stop the Dukkar King (as DP) from breaching back into reality. The Darklords are essentially made in his image - trapped in a world where their greastest desire is frustrated. Certainly the vistani are somehow linked to the Dark Powers since the most powerful of them can move in and out of the mists and choose to remain in RL. -Eric Gorman
#11 zombiegleemax Feb 18, 2005 5:55:56	I always liked the idea. -Eric Gorman You're the first person I've heard that likes that idea! I've never put much thought into the specifics, since I think discovering the true idenity of the DPs is beyond a normal Ravenloft campaign (epic maybe). But I thought that it would be ironic if the Vistani were the DPs. Maybe only the Grandmothers know the truth, and their power works on a subconscience/group mind level. Maybe that is why the Mallachio is trying to wipe them all out. I know most people want the DPs to be all powerful, but I think it is much more gothis to have them be tortured and imprisoned the the very creatures they keep locked up. But of course, everyone should use the DPs as best fits their compaign. I will probably never really reveil who they really are in mine.....but it should be something much more surprising an ironic than just a bunch of evil powers.
#12 zombiegleemax Feb 18, 2005 6:05:23	Perhaps the Vistani were a group of persecuted and hunted gypsies who cried out to the gods for the power to punish their enemies....the gods granted their request, but the vistani tortured their former enemies in horrible ways......so now they have the power to capture and judge others, but have to live inthe prisons they create for those they judge....and live forever in a world that still despises them. They have great power to curse others, and control the mists of Ravenloft. But our powerless against the dark lords they imprison in their lands. But, that's just a thought.