Would you buy such a book?
Do you think WotC could be persuaded to make one?
Håvard
If these obstacles could be surmounted, then that would be great, of course.
Most of all, though, it seems unlikely that such a book would bring anything new for all of us long-term fans. And that in itself was probably what caused Mystara to die in the first place, although that brings us into a whole different topic - which I would also like to discuss here at some point when I have the time to make a thread. ;)
In the end, isn't it up to us to produce the new material ourselves? Over the years, we have proved that we can do it, although one skill almost all of us lack is brevity. Still, a lot of wonderful stuff has been produced by all of us here on the Mystara Message Board and over on the Mystara Mailing List. Personally, I think that is our only viable way forward.
My own vision of Mystara's future, and partial solution to the insane length of some of our projects, lies in PDF books. I believe that like any writers we need limits to work within, so that we can cut things down to a more concentrated, cohesive design.
I also think that many of us probably have the necessary access to powerful computer programs to allow us to publish our work in the form of books online. The Almanacs are one obvious example of this, and of course Marco's Immortal directory, and so on. I myself am working to a similar plan, with the eventual hope of creating a PDF book. And I already packaged my collated Timeline in a similar way.
One sourcebook could detail Mystara, the Savage Coast, Hollow World, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, Planescape and Birthright.
Håvard
I for one wouldn't buy it. With 280-ish pages over 7 settings that's only 40 pages per setting (obviously better than the current situation, but still...)
I'm obviously also influenced by the fact that I've never used/played the last four setting, except for one game of Dark Sun when Dragon and Dungeon did their 3.0 conversion the other year.
2 Books would work better for me assuming Mystara, Savage Coast, and Hollow World where all in the same book. ;)
Regards,
Gary
Would you buy such a book?
No.
What exactly would I get out of it that I can't get by buying the old PDF's on rpgnow.com? If it's just a list of ideas for campaign settings, it sounds like the basis of a good web article, but not a book.
My own vision of Mystara's future, and partial solution to the insane length of some of our projects, lies in PDF books. I believe that like any writers we need limits to work within, so that we can cut things down to a more concentrated, cohesive design.
I also think that many of us probably have the necessary access to powerful computer programs to allow us to publish our work in the form of books online...
I wonder: Is there a possibility of creating Mystara as an on-line world, where players can play-by-post or something like that? I visited such worlds lately, and there might be some potential there - also as a way of getting new fans.
(To be clear: I have NO idea how to perform such a deed. ;) )
No.
What exactly would I get out of it that I can't get by buying the old PDF's on rpgnow.com? If it's just a list of ideas for campaign settings, it sounds like the basis of a good web article, but not a book.
Are you telling us you ain't buying the Hackwurld of Mystaros (published by Kenzer & Co) which reshapes Mystara using Hackmaster rules and Mystaros's campaign? Not even for a quick look at it? :D
Anyway, I'm compiling a 3E Guide to Mystara too, so do not despair. However I have not planned any release in the near future, since we're still halfway through chapter 1: Races and Classes, although we've got an impressive list of 60+ regional talents already done :P
Just to chitchat, we got the idea to revise the preferred classes of character races in PHB, and we came up with these for Mystara:
Human: any
Elf: it depends on the subrace, usually Sorcerer
Dwarf: Fighter
Halfling: Thief
Gnome: Artificer (or Technomancer, we still haven't figured out the name)
Half-orc: Barbarian
Half-elf: Ranger (ONLY where they can breed, we don't wanna be swarmed by them!)
We also have this idea for the Common Base Classes available in Mystara:
Artificer (or Technomancer)
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Monk (old Mystic)
Ranger
Shaman
Sorcerer
Thief
Wizard
No PALADIN as base class, we wanna stay true to OD&D and have Paladin and Avenger as Prestige Classes available only at higher levels. Basically you ain't born Paladin/Avenger in Mystara: you are raised and trained to become one.
Okay sorry for my ramblings ;)
Anyway, I'm compiling a 3E Guide to Mystara too, so do not despair. However I have not planned any release in the near future, since we're still halfway through chapter 1: Races and Classes, although we've got an impressive list of 60+ regional talents already done :P
Just to chitchat, we got the idea to revise the preferred classes of character races in PHB, and we came up with these for Mystara:
Human: any
Elf: it depends on the subrace, usually Sorcerer
Dwarf: Fighter
Halfling: Thief
Gnome: Artificer (or Technomancer, we still haven't figured out the name)
Half-orc: Barbarian
Half-elf: Ranger (ONLY where they can breed, we don't wanna be swarmed by them!)
We also have this idea for the Common Base Classes available in Mystara:
Artificer (or Technomancer)
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Monk (old Mystic)
Ranger
Shaman
Sorcerer
Thief
Wizard
No PALADIN as base class, we wanna stay true to OD&D and have Paladin and Avenger as Prestige Classes available only at higher levels. Basically you ain't born Paladin/Avenger in Mystara: you are raised and trained to become one.
Okay sorry for my ramblings ;)
Very interesting. Could you post the details on the Artificer class?
:-) Jesper
I suppose I am one of those few suckers who would buy anything just as long as it had the name Mystara in it. Granted, information about the other worlds would also be of interest to me, even though Mystara is the only D&D setting I'd ever want to GM.
Thorf and Gary have a point that such a book would not have much about Mystara in it, and especially not much that we dont already have available. The advantages of such a product would be that it would have a broader consumer base than a product aimed merely at the Mystara community or the fans of one of the other settings. However, I agree that if only a few pages is dedicated to each setting, the appeal for old timers might not be that great. Also newbies might not care much for such a book, even though a main point should be to attract new fans to the setting aswell as revive old ones.
Ofcourse, I decided to list the Savage Coast and the Hollow World as separate settings, which would be beneficial for the Mystara crowd since we'd get to use more of it. Collecting these three settings in one book would be better from our point of view, although WotC would probably be more interested in splitting them so that we'd have to buy both books (if two were released).
Joe has a point that so much good stuff is available on pdf, though I would have loved to see some hard copies of Mystara stuff again, even if it is reprints of the old material. Maybe thats just me.
Perhaps Thorf is right that the future lays in Fanmade Netbooks. I'd love to see more complete projects. There are so many great ideas out there, but few of them are collected into completed works.
Marco: I once had similar ideas to yours, but I have turned to a more "dont change it if it aint broken" approach. Basically, I see little need for changing the favored classes for Elves, Gnomes and Half-elves. In the case of half-elves, changing favored class from Any to Ranger affects game balance issues. I wouldn't mind including subraces that had different favored classes, but I'd keep all the Core Races as is and useable in Mystara. And I'd include the Lupin and Rakasta as Standard Races.
I see that you have included Thief as a new Core race. Did you mean Rogue, or have you conciously changed it?
I like including the Artificer!
I'd use the same one as is detailed in Eberron (And possible elsewhere?). It fits well both for Gnome Inventors and Dwarven Forgemasters.In accordance with my "allow everything from the Core books" philosophy, I'd also allow the Paladin Core Class. I find that players react negatively to settings in which "this or that is not allowed". Remember 1E Dragonlance anyone?
Instead I'd make a new PrC mimicing the OD&D Paladin, perhaps naming it Templar, aswell as an Avenger PrC.
Håvard
Marco: I once had similar ideas to yours, but I have turned to a more "dont change it if it aint broken" approach. Basically, I see little need for changing the favored classes for Elves, Gnomes and Half-elves. In the case of half-elves, changing favored class from Any to Ranger affects game balance issues. I wouldn't mind including subraces that had different favored classes, but I'd keep all the Core Races as is and useable in Mystara.
I'm not inventing anything new or unorthodox, since Forgotten Realms is doing the same with its subraces (or so I've been told). So there's really nothing big in changing one preferred class to another.
I agree that changing half-elf preferred class from Any to Something is indeed a big change, but given the rarity of half-elves and their background, I think I could be justified. But this is a minor point really: I can leave them with Any and be content if it sounds so "upsetting" ;)
And I'd include the Lupin and Rakasta as Standard Races.
Oh, sure thing! My bad I forgot em! So let me add:
Rakasta: Fighter
Lupin: Ranger
I see that you have included Thief as a new Core race. Did you mean Rogue, or have you conciously changed it?
No, I meant Rogue but I wasn't sure about the English term. My bad :P
I like including the Artificer!
Don't have access to that class so we elaborated one.. unfortunately it's a bit long to post now and still not playtested :P
In accordance with my "allow everything from the Core books" philosophy, I'd also allow the Paladin Core Class. I find that players react negatively to settings in which "this or that is not allowed". Remember 1E Dragonlance anyone?
Instead I'd make a new PrC mimicing the OD&D Paladin, perhaps naming it Templar, aswell as an Avenger PrC.
Well, there are some minor changes to be made, IMO, and this is one of them. I don't like Paladin as starting class, Mystara never had, so I don't really see any difference or fault in the campaign if you cannot be a Paladin from 1st level but have to wait say till 5th or so to get this PrC (I'd make it a 5-levels PrC btw). It's an option that many other "characteristic" campaign settings have done and I second this solution.
Also, not ALL deities or Churches may have Paladins, only some of them (those who fill the requirements) and this limits the choice better. Same goes for Avenger, mind you.
I'm not inventing anything new or unorthodox, since Forgotten Realms is doing the same with its subraces (or so I've been told). So there's really nothing big in changing one preferred class to another.
True. I don't mind adding other subraces that have different favored classes, but I'd allow all the standard races as is. This is part of my philosophy when it comes to 3e conversions, more on that below..
I agree that changing half-elf preferred class from Any to Something is indeed a big change, but given the rarity of half-elves and their background, I think I could be justified. But this is a minor point really: I can leave them with Any and be content if it sounds so "upsetting" ;)
I don't have a problem with changing it, but if you do, I think the race should be compensated with something, since losing the Any quality means making the race weaker.
IMC OTOH, I have a totally different approach to half-elves:
The Half-elf race presented in the PHB is used to represent the common off-spring between humans and elves as described in the Alfheim and Darokin Gaz's. Their physical description is altered, making them more similar to one of the parents following that description. In addition however, the Legendary True Half-Elf is a separate race with the benefits of both races (at least to an extent) compensated with a LA adjustment.
Oh, sure thing! My bad I forgot em! So let me add:
Rakasta: Fighter
Lupin: Ranger
Sounds good. This is how I've used them aswell, though I am considering Mike's idea from Dragon where they have Any as Favored Class.
No, I meant Rogue but I wasn't sure about the English term. My bad :P
NP. I thought it was the case, but I had to ask in case you had come up with a more Thief-ish Rogue variant. I'm glad you hadn't tho
Don't have access to that class so we elaborated one.. unfortunately it's a bit long to post now and still not playtested :P
Check the SRD to see if it has been added. It should be OGL. This way, Artificers could be the Core class, representing crafters of both magical and technological items, and you could have a Technomancer PrC for those (especially gnomes) who specialize in Technomancy.
Well, there are some minor changes to be made, IMO, and this is one of them. I don't like Paladin as starting class, Mystara never had, so I don't really see any difference or fault in the campaign if you cannot be a Paladin from 1st level but have to wait say till 5th or so to get this PrC (I'd make it a 5-levels PrC btw). It's an option that many other "characteristic" campaign settings have done and I second this solution.
Also, not ALL deities or Churches may have Paladins, only some of them (those who fill the requirements) and this limits the choice better. Same goes for Avenger, mind you.
In essence I agree with you. Our disagreement is more about the basic philosophy of 3e conversions. I believe that conversions should be as easy and as understandable as possible. Also, I think that all Core Classes and Races should be allowed as is in the PHB. Adding stuff is great, but taking stuff away is something GMs and especially players are not going to be happy about, especially if those restrictions are absolute, rather than suggestions.
In the case of the paladin, I'd allow the Core Paladin class, but state that it is incredibly rare on Mystara. Most religious warriors instead join a PrC associated with their deity/ethos. There is a Paladin PrC in the Unearthed Arcana which could be used, though it is a 15-level PrC instead of the regular 5-level one, or you could come up with a new one. I'd probably use the Blackguard Paladin as a basis for both the PrC Paladin and the PrC Avenger with the sufficient modifications. I'd probably use a different name for the PrC Paladin to avoid confusion for those who are more familiar with 3E Core than Mystara.
Anyway, these are just some thoughts on how I'd do things, feel free to ignore them if you dont like em ;)
Håvard
Check the SRD to see if it has been added. It should be OGL. This way, Artificers could be the Core class, representing crafters of both magical and technological items, and you could have a Technomancer PrC for those (especially gnomes) who specialize in Technomancy.
I had a look but couldn't see it. Maybe, as an Eberron class, it's like some of the FR/Greyhawk stuff that's non OGL.
Gary
Yeah, I don't think the Artificaer is OGL.
'tisn't.
I don't think any of the new base classes are part of the SRD, although admitedly I haven't checked it in quite some time.
To answer DM's question earlier, no, I at least won't be picking up the Mystaros campaign setting for Hackmaster. I understand that others here are interested, but I'm not. ;)
To answer the question of the thread, maybe. If our office copies of such books enticed me enough to purchase the book for my private collection (as Complete Adventurer has) then yes. If upon looking at the book I judged it merely "okay" then I wouldn't buy it, Mystara-goodness notwithstanding. I realize I'm in a unique position there, but that's my take anyway. ;)
tease
I will drop the teaser, though, that Dragon is going to have more Mystara in it sometime in the next year or so.
/tease
tease
I will drop the teaser, though, that Dragon is going to have more Mystara in it sometime in the next year or so.
/tease
cool, keep us all up to date when more news can be released Mike
tease
I will drop the teaser, though, that Dragon is going to have more Mystara in it sometime in the next year or so.
/tease
Hmmm... as in another article or two, or some kind of ongoing Mystara material?
(You probably can't say, but if you can give another hint... ;) )
(You probably can't say, but if you can give another hint... ;) )
It's like charades! How many words? Do a "sounds like" hint!
(Just a stupid joke from a tired person)
Seriously Mike, can you tell us any more? Another creature? Something else?
Back on topic, a setting source book could very well do alright sales-wise. It seems to me that there's alot of people out there that have played in many settings and so I'd think like alot of variety. Me, I'm a "Gaz3-style" True Believer of the Eternal Truth; Mystara! :D Would I buy the book myself? It's a maybe, and price may be the deciding weight. If it wasn't too expensive I'd likely buy it "just to have it".