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#1jobooFeb 15, 2005 10:24:12 | It is understood that only templars and the upper class are allowed to read and write. Templars can keep records of any activity and pass this knowledge along with ancient traditions down to others. What about traders and merchants? Writing is especially benificial to those that keep records and pass knowledge to others. If the upper class are allowed to read and write then it would make sense for them to be in a merchant house. This would help explain how merchant houses have become so succesful for so long. (IMO) Certain forms of reading should be allowed to all classes. In the form of pictographic images that relate to the culture and the city. This would allow laws to be posted, along with stories and warnings. These could be similar to meso-american and or egyptian pictographic writing. They should be displayed on buildings, statues and larges stones that are not portable in any natural way. Templars or those supervised by templars may be the only ones to create the pictogrphic images. In addition, these images are not to be used in a portable method, on paper, hide, ect. Otherwise it is illegal and punishable by death, often in the form of public sacrifice. Phonetic reading and writing, (using symbols to dipict sounds) should be uncommon and regulated. Only the upperclass and templars should be allowed to participate in the use of such documents. These would be used for record keeping, storing knowledge, and trade. Phonetic writing should be only written in a portable format on paper, hide, ect. Mostly to keep the under class from learning how to read it. Writing on the other hand could be used to accuse someone of sorcery. This would keep the underclass from wanting to obtain or posess such documents. There should be laws that require that documents must be approved by a templar with a seal or symbol upon it. This way it would be benificial to have friends in the templarate if you are a merchant keeping documents. As a merchant it would make sense to reveal all records and documents when entering a new city.That way they can be approved and stamped. |
#2KamelionFeb 15, 2005 11:29:11 | There is a really interesting series of articles on language and writing in Wisdom of the Drylanders from athas.org. They adress many of the points you raise . |
#3zombiegleemaxFeb 15, 2005 15:30:13 | that is a cool article, but its only relevant to Kurn. as for read/writing... Mages are always going to do this, its a fact of their profession. who says it has to be legal ;) and they can teach their (few) acolytes, et al. Merchants operate outside the SK cities (Dune Trader) although some have houses within the cities. since they are part of a symbiotic relationship with Athas' citys' survival, they are given more leeway, and i'd assume in the form of writing for records and such. the merchatns might also avoid the penalty through their code, which basically means if the Templars give them any trouble they pack up and leave the SK to rethink his policies ive read in various places some prized servants of lords or merchants are taught to read and write in private, and i think in Slave Tribes there are some references to read/writing amongst slaves. and never underestimate the value of Oral history! tolkien made note (yes thats an odd reference to a world like DS!) that societies with oral traditions (no snickering) tended to have richer & more well preserved dialogues & histories. its why academics survived after all ;) now he's just a professor of linguistics but i think we can all take from his example (if not from his works). and as the DS world does, you can take a look around our world's history for examples, such as the oral tradition of the bible before it was scribed. the Incas used a non-writing system (knotted cords with a complex system of communication), and they are as close to a dark sun civilization as any (aka Draj with more gold) the moral is the "law" is to represent the times, controlling information, controlling the masses. but practical matters often supercede ideology (at least one hopes so where all life is at stake!), and life well always seems to find a way. |
#4KamelionFeb 15, 2005 17:20:50 | that is a cool article, but its only relevant to Kurn. Although it is written from a Kurnish point of view, the articles are actually relavant to the Tablelands region (the "Drylands") and not to Kurn. The section Reading and Writing in the Drylands on page 7-8 talks about Tablelands scripts and languages in some detail and the rest of the Common Wisdom article focuses on the Tablelands Common tongue . I pretty much agree with all the points you're making, though. |
#5jobooFeb 15, 2005 22:02:53 | as for read/writing... IMHO, I believe that reading and writing should be illegal, unless you are a templar or a member of the upper class. I only feel this way with phonetic reading/writing. With pictographic "writing" I think that all classes should be able to understand it. This form of writing could be the oldest form dating back to the age of psionics. Who knows? Imagine walking into a city and seeing the SK dipicted, in a way to install fear without a templar even being present. That is what art is for, pictographs would tell a visual story with out actually using words. It would be more closley tied to the oral traditions. A Draji child seeing the twisted images would ask their parent what the images are. The parent would see the collection of images and it would trigger a story he was told when he looked at the same images with a friend. Its even possible that the templarate would teach the people the meanings of the images. |
#6jobooFeb 15, 2005 22:34:07 | and never underestimate the value of Oral history! tolkien made note (yes thats an odd reference to a world like DS!) that societies with oral traditions (no snickering) tended to have richer & more well preserved dialogues & histories. its why academics survived after all ;) now he's just a professor of linguistics but i think we can all take from his example (if not from his works). and as the DS world does, you can take a look around our world's history for examples, such as the oral tradition of the bible before it was scribed. the Incas used a non-writing system (knotted cords with a complex system of communication), and they are as close to a dark sun civilization as any (aka Draj with more gold) Very good points that I will not argue with. Oral traditions would be essential in Darksun throughout. When a wastelander or a farmer enters one of the "magnificent" city-states they would relate to the stories and myths (oral traditions) to images that where carved in stone. Sometimes seeing is believing. That would explain why so many gods have been depicted as images in history (statues, paintings, ect.). the moral is the "law" is to represent the times, controlling information, controlling the masses. Revealing information also helps control the masses. Take a look at the media. In some countries it's used as a tool to decieve and influence the population. Not to mention, put fear in the hearts of men. |
#7zombiegleemaxFeb 16, 2005 16:16:33 | haha i'd think the templars advocating the worship of their god-kings was leaking information to the public already! i just meant by this that a few laws in the cities governing who can/cant what/not is just meant to set the atmosphere of oppression. i mean, how different would DS be if the rules never put in anything about magic being illegal? well it'd be a lot like other campagin worlds. DS has a feel of death everywhere, even among the sources of life. communication is what separates people from da animals. well thats always going to be debated, but its a sign of civilization/society to communicate, and as much as people can communicate is the limits of their ability in society. controlling read/writing is essentially barring people from reaching above their station in life, but that doesnt mean it is stemmed. there are as many ways to communicate as there are to share and its the basis for society...so it finds a way to leave records, share information & preserve, or it falls to the endless sands. |
#8murkafFeb 18, 2005 10:13:46 | What about traders and merchants? Writing is especially benificial to those that keep records and pass knowledge to others. If the upper class are allowed to read and write then it would make sense for them to be in a merchant house. This would help explain how merchant houses have become so succesful for so long. I don't remember if it was in The Wanderer's Journal or Dune Traders, but it was said that traders and merchants are forbidden to read or write. However, they are allowed to have accounting systems to measure their profits and losses. And many merchant houses have EXTREMELY COMPLEX notation systems for accounting purposes. (I would rule that it costs as many skill points to learn a Merchant House accounting system as it costs to learn a language and that Comprehend Languages and Decipher Script can help you understand a balance sheet) |