In D&D (or any other RPG out there for that matter), what constitutes role-playing to you?
Would you consider a dungeon crawl as much a role-playing experience as your characters getting caught in the midst of political intrigue (for example)?
Do you consider combat to be part of roleplaying, or do you consider it more of a war-gaming experience, and seperate from role-playing?
If, be it a dungeon crawl or a game of intrigue, you base your character's actions on nothing more than tactical prudence, and ignore your character's personality and motivations, you're not roleplaying.
I don't think PLAYING would attract me if it wasn't for the people I spent the time with... Playing is so exhausting - I'd rather read a good book... clearly a fantasy novel...
I personally enjoy rpg sessions (of which I DM the most) that focus on storytelling - I like it when the palyers seem to forget that it is just a play, when they start to imagine their own stories... that amuses me.
What thrills me with rpg are the tons of stories I can weave around the given settings; but for that, I'd not need to ROLEPLAY. ;)
This is a question that came up in another thread, and I found it interesting how there are different takes on this question.
In D&D (or any other RPG out there for that matter), what constitutes role-playing to you?
Would you consider a dungeon crawl as much a role-playing experience as your characters getting caught in the midst of political intrigue (for example)?
Do you consider combat to be part of roleplaying, or do you consider it more of a war-gaming experience, and seperate from role-playing?
For my group, role-playing includes both "dungeon" crawling and political intrigue. I've had sessions where the party spends the entirety investigating the murder of a prominent local politician, and the closest thing to combat is intimidating local members of the thieves' guild for the low down. I've also had sessions where it's been one big hack-fest. Both types of play involve the roll of dice (whether it be for a sense motive check or to confirm a critical hit in combat), and both are role-playing.
For my group, role-playing includes both "dungeon" crawling and political intrigue. I've had sessions where the party spends the entirety investigating the murder of a prominent local politician, and the closest thing to combat is intimidating local members of the thieves' guild for the low down. I've also had sessions where it's been one big hack-fest. Both types of play involve the roll of dice (whether it be for a sense motive check or to confirm a critical hit in combat), and both are role-playing.
Nice way of putting it Ilthranos. Something I've overlooked, and you've shown a proverbial light on. Even puritanical role playing sessions that don't involve combat (based on the assumption that they are mutually exclusive, which is not my personal viewpoint) still require rolling of the dice. Spot checks, listen checks, profession, bluff, sense motive, use rope, hide, move silently, perform, disguise, intimidate, cook, sing, will saves (to stay awake, or possibly stave off a character's addiction or fondness for a favorite vice) etc, etc. Taken in this light, perhaps there isn't such a hard defined line between combat and character interaction (role playing), especially since they both really require rolling of the dice, albeit for different applications of the 'luck of the roll'. AND, you get exp for doing both (more or less depending on the DM)
Thanks for the feedback everybody! :D
But... they do things during combat, like different quirks, that I kind of see as roleplaying, even if it isnt "intense". Like my g/f says her character is a Kender slayer.. after her character had a bad experience with one during the Test. I had a kender drain her brand new monk's belt in order to fuel a spell. She didnt take it too well. She was a Monk/Wizard. One of the reasons she earned the Black Robes heh.. the plotting of the eventual death of the kender.
But anyways... I dunno.. I dont think any of us would like to go the whole session without doing roles of some kind. Whether its trying to steal something, influence people with force, fighting, etc. Go a whole game with just "role playing".. eh I'll pass. If i wanted a story, I'd read a novel. I guess we look at our D&D sessions as a great big board game. Thats how I explain it to people too. Whenever someone asks, and lots of people do, I just say its a big board game.
One of my players has been playing for years and years, so he throws in role playing whenever he feels like it. He'll go up and talk to people, try to infleunce them, etc. My little brother does what he wants also, but he likes combat a lot too. Hes kind of half and half. And then I have two pretty new players that are still learning the game, rules, etc. They are new to roleplaying and do what they can.
Personally, and this may sound kind of sad, but I find some people's versions of roleplaying as really dorky. Now that may sound stupid, but when someone gets really really into their character, its kind of scary. Also its a little weird. Usually when we talk, we say stuff like "My character asks... whatever". I know there are DM's who make you talk inperson.. but I can't do that. To me its way too weird. Its cool for people who like that, but I'm neither an actor, nor a storyteller. I set up things and we play as much as possible, and if they go a different way than i thought, I just go with it.
The one thing I do like.. is even if others dont agree with how I DM or play, my group and I have loads of fun.. so it never matters heh. Thats why I'm always weary about new people joining our group. Just because I'm worried to get someone who doesnt "fit" with how we play.
To pull of combat RP you have to be willing to let yourself go a bit. I have played with the player that, no matter what the obstical, he stands in defiance of the enemy, unaffraid and unwaivering because they can't harm him. This is not because the character is a bad ass, but instead because the player looks only at the statistics (in rare cases the character was concieved this way).
I like to add fears into the character, maybe a phobia. I am sorry, but when my scrawny Psion / Ranger (Eberron campaign) comes bounding up the street and a 7' tall warforged with a battle axe stops him to "talk," my guy gets a bit nervous. When the talking starts with the blade of that axe, I let the fear come out but not to the point of cowardace. This kind of playing has rubbed off on the less experienced in the group, and they realize that its more fun overall if you take the character and think of it as real for only those 4 - 6 hours you are playing. Fearing for the characters life is part of the game, and I want to experience the whole game if I can.
Long winded, I known, but in the end roleplaying to me is emmersing yourself into the world and making it real for a short time. Roleplaying is being someone and something you will never be, and escaping the confines of reality. When my wife calls me during geek night (affectionate naming by the DM), unless its an emergency, I tell her that I am pretty unhappy with her. Afterall, she is part of reality and even with how much I love her, D&D is my escape from even that.
What I will say, however, is that some of my favorite role playing interactions have been completely spontaneous. In the first session of our current Dragonlance campaign the group decided to capture a goblin that was part of a group that had ambushed them. After a particularly brutal fight, in which none of the other goblins survived, the party decided to heal and feed this little runt that somehow managed to not die. At first the goblin was rather uncooperative and frightened, having heard many nasty things about humans and elves. In the end, they were nice to him, and being the runt of the goblin pack he was in, he had been picked on a lot, and these nice people caused him to open up.
The whole exchange was spontaneous and fun. I had to give him a name on the spot, and had a great time sniveling for the players.
Personally, I would say that in our groups the role playing is created by the players, and I as the DM am just hoping to keep pace with their crazy personalities and very unpredictable actions.
The other part for me is when playing the character I try not to think in the context of the rules of the game and what I can do, but what do I want to do and then let the game rules work around that. If I can convince\argue with someone to do something or understand something without using the skill rolls then mores the better. This way I avoid min/maxing a character and think of him in the context of the setting and not the game.
To sum it up, the story, for me, is key, and the rules of the game supplememnt that.
This topic stems mostly from the accusations that Key of Destiny doesn't promote any role-playing opportunities. I'd like to list and point out several parts of that module which I found promoted role-playing within my group.
*Possible Spoilers*
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- Meeting with Shaylin and the Silvanesti in the sewers of Pahin
- The Mikku tribe and Alakar the Silent
- The kender Shroud within the Valley of Hurim
- Anasana with the Shattered Temple
- Zoe Left-hand at Ak-Khurman
- Sailing from Ak-Khuman to Balfor. Interaction with the ship's crew and their Captian.
- Meeting with Kron Thistleknot and Elijayess
- Lord Crager Bloodholt and the Dark Knights
- Encounter with the Phaethons of the Desolation
- The Oracles of the Oasis
Thats just what I've ran thus far on KoD that had major role-playing moments. Looking at whats coming up there are plenty more opportunities as well.
I feel that pre generated adventures do present the opportunity of role-playing. Its just up to the DM to bring that to light in subtle ways.
For example, I once hit a shadow dragon with a maximized Dalamar's lightning lance in the first round of combat, doing like 150 points of damage. The dragon ignored the rest of the party, and picked me up in its mouth and began chewing. Had one of the fighters not scored a critical hit a couple rounds later, I would have been killed. That is the last time I fired off an offensive spell that powerful that early in a combat. My character learned his lesson, realized his mortality, and became a lot more careful in everything from combat to his dealings with NPCs.
On the flip side, I have also achieved a small amount of political power through roleplaying and the leadership feat, and have learned that there are often other ways to achieve a goal than killing all the bad guys. We have parlayed with everything from undead trees (twice;)) to Chemosh's avatar.
My point is that roleplaying is essentially character development, but that this development takes place just as much in combat as in the local pub.
Politics and fighting need to be kept even and you need to have fun with it.
In my games, I have the players interact with the town folk and get comfortable in a place, then turn the tables upside down on them. There will be entire sessions devoted to hack 'n slash, others to roleplaying, but usually each session contains a bit or the potential for both.
Roleplaying to me, is getting into your characters shoes and interacting with the imagery/surrounding the DM has setup. The players have to view their character as more than just numbers on a sheet of paper. The way I do that is to setup situations and quests tailored for specific characters, yet keeping everyone invloved. Roleplaying is almost impossible if the DM doesn't do a good job in setting things up to get and keep everyones interrest.
Some of you may remember me posting some misgivings about some of my players a while back. I'm happy to report that they've all molded to the roles they chose, and have surprised me ALOT with some of the stuff they have come up with. Well...there is one player who has actually regressed. She started out so strong with her character...now I think she's lost all interest in playing. Will have to have a word with her on that.
Anyway, I've played in plenty of games that focused more on "Role"playing and some that have had a heavy combat focus. They can both be a lot of fun. One game I rememeber very well, there were about 15 or 16 of us playing, and we split into two groups. It was set up with a head DM and two sub-Dms with the head DM dividing his time between the two groups. There was one moment when both groups met in a very tense situation, all 16 of us automaticly sliped into our characters, starting acting out the situation and (thankfully) avoided the fight and disapaited the very real tension that suddenly was there. While I seriously doubt we would ever have acted out the fight that we all knew was comming and came to real blows (we would have reached for our dice instead, all of us scrambling for our sheets that were left in the other room), there was still that feeling of "holy crap, there's about to be a brawl, and I'm gonna bust some heads" (I was playing a fighter at the time, and I was itching for some combat). The night was full of these moments. It was a gaming experiance that I have not forgoten, even though that was seven years ago. But even with all the "role"playing going on in that game (which lasted 7 to 8 hours if I remember correctly), the end turned into an all out fight against the real enemy that all 16 of us confronted, which was really the only fight scene during the whole game. And some still wanted to play an arena type game afterwards cause they didn't get enough "trigger time". Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
To me, no matter how much political intrigue you put into your game, you're still going to have to stop that assassination attempt, and an assassin isn't going to be talked to...without a ton of gold (or steel) to sway his mind. And then you may be dealing with an assassin that doesn't give a care about money and live for the kill. Not every combat incounter needs to end in combat, I play by the rule that almost everyone wants to avoid a fight. None of my NPCs want to die, and if they can avoid a fight all more the better. Although sometimes a fight just can't be avoided... :fight!:
So, let's say you're playing a Lawful Good paladin and the story takes a twist where your character is accused of some heinous deed. Quite possibly, the deed sticks with that character no matter where he goes. To me, continuing to play that character as the character - not you - would act is roleplaying.
See, I gotta admit that I have a little problem with how many characters are defined in roleplaying games. I mean, it's great fun to come up with a character concept, envision how this character's personality would be shaped, and set forth on adventures!
The thing that many players forget is that experience will shape and change that character's outlook and personality. Far too many players get stuck in the mindset that they've created a specific kind of character and that's that.
On the other hand, the same applies for DM's. I've been a DM most of my life and it's important when to know when to give in to your players and afford them the little details that, despite not meshing entirely with your story, are for their best benefit and enjoyment.
I'm of the odd fancy that I want my players to create extremely blank characters. When possible, I ask them not to fill in things like Alignment, background, etc. I like to create these on the fly with the players, throwing details and opportunities at them that all ow us both to shape and mold the character into something that writes itself into the story. For example, I might ask a player not to create a background for his character. At least, not a detailed one. Then, in session, I'll go ahead and give him the opportunity to flesh it out on the fly:
NPC: So, Garret, I'm sorry to hear about your harvest this winter. Bad season, it was.
Player: Aye. Not doubting, but thank you. I've had many bad harvests in my life. (Improv)And many bad winters as well.
NPC: Have you? So bad as this one? With a whole crop lost?
Player: (Improv - all)Aye. The winter fouor years ago was the worst. Lost my crop, lost my right eye. Lost me brother, too.
By utlizing this technique, I allow the players to create on-the-fly characterizations because of the unconscious personality they've infused their creations with.
Just a thought or two.
Peace.