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Ancient psionics in Greyhawk

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
the_livewire_02
Feb 20, 2005 18:43:36 OK, you'll have to excuse the incoherency, this discussion was at 2:00 AM.

We were sitting around after gaming, talking about world creation. The subject of magical civilizations came up and we began to focus on the nature of magic in a stable, old (5000+), empire. We discussed the airships and lightning rails of Eberron, and the flying mountain cities of Nethril. Eventually we got to the Sueloise empire and the Baklunish. Now if I understand correctly, the Suel had bound many genies and elementals, and one of the effects of that was to have an advantage over the Baklunish. Well my friend, Tony, the expert on all things Greyhawk in our group, said that the Baklunish then had to find alternative paths of magic. Well at that point I piped up that if I recalled correctly, the only Psionic Deities in Greyhawk are Baklunish. This led the conversation towards the destruction of both civilizations.

Well, with the rain of colourless fire, that sounded like the Firefall power on an Epic power on the epic scale. I mentioned to Tony the demiplane of ectoplasm by the Mind's Eye, and he suggested I post it here for discussion.

So I'll toss it out into the air. Anyone given any thought to the Rain as an epic psionic power? Or psionics in Oerth in general?
#2
zombiegleemax
Feb 24, 2005 21:22:01 One of the best treatments of psionics on Oerth was by Erik Mona back in 1996. See "Baklunish Delights (Part One): Xan Yae and Zuoken" in the 3d Oerth Journal, available at Canonfire.com.

Ideas from that article were incorporated in the LGG.

IMC, the Olman also practiced ki-related disciplines, i.e., included monks, psions, and psychic warriors. I've also recently been imagining that the soulknife is an ancient Olman fighting art.

I'm unfamiliar with Epic rules, so I can't really comment in a rules-savvy way.

However, you may be interested that some fans have suggested that the Rain of Colorless Fire required the invocation, manifestation, and ultimate sacrifice of a Bakluni god of magick.
#3
Elendur
Feb 25, 2005 11:08:43 I injected an Elan psion NPC into my Greyhawk campaign, but I didn't worry about his origins too much, as he's a 'mysterious figure'. The Elan city is supposed to be a secret from outsiders anyway. However it would be interesting to hear speculation on where Elan might fit in Greyhawk. I guess its even possible that the Elan civilization was destroyed, but that would make my NPC awfully old.
#4
Argon
Feb 26, 2005 17:33:47 believe it or not I was never a fan of a psionic deity. I always seen a practioner of the psychic arts as not believing in greater beings so to speak but in different aspects which actually represent themselves.

So a god of psionics never really tickled my fancy. However I could always find ways to tie them in and create a new centralized belief system.

With that said might I also add that the little mentioned Rhenee could have psionics in their ranks, preferbly those which specialize in the clarisentient disciples. I could see the Baklunish as focusing on Psychokinetic disciples as many psychokinetic powers envolve manipukation of elements hence your Rain of Colorless fire. That's if you prescribe to the psychic theory.

I would think the Suel would prefer Telepathic disciples, which fits in nicely with the way the agents of the Scarlet Brotherhood operate. Though suggestions and mental manipulations these disciples fit quite nicely.

Now the Flan would probably be a good fit for Psychometabolic, or Psychokinetic disciples. Once again the element factor plays to their kind. Though I could see an argument for Oeridian Psychometabolic disciples which would make sense.

How ever I would think the Baklunish and Rhenee would have the highest amount of Psionic inclined people within their over all demographics. This is still low on the grand scale of things with the Suel being third and Flan being a distant fourth. Oeridian psychics should be very rare. As far as I'm concerned Elves and fey creatures should not be able to use psychic powers this is based on the magical inclinations and the fact that since 1st edition Elves where considered to have spirits not souls. While many of us reading this will say whats the difference, those of us who have played the game since 1st know that a spirit was considered completely different from a soul. Which is why certain resurrection magics didn't work on Elves.

Also the Olman would probably have clarisentient disciples with some of the other disciples less likly and telepathic disciples just seem to escape them. Olman would probably be fifth amongst the human races in my book. Leaving the Touv for dead last and I would say in the rare occurence one has developed psychic powers it should be from the Psychometabolic disciple.

Thats just a little piece of my take on psionics feel free to use it or not.
#5
extempus
Feb 08, 2006 21:45:40 When my players travelled back in time to the Suel Imperium just prior to the Rain of Colorless Fire, they befriended Slerotin and discovered that psionics had been outlawed by the Emperor 500 years before. Every psionicist they could get their hands on were slaughtered, but some escaped (this was unknown to Slerotin and the adventurers). There weren't even any psionic-type spells in the Imperium as a result. Whether the Baklunish or Oeridians possessed psionics is unknown.

As far as the Rain of Colorless Fire goes, they met 23 survivors of the Baklunish Empire at Tovag Baragu; they were wizards, priests and druids. Chang, their leader, used his magic staff to activate Tovag Baragu, which was in essence a giant energy weapon: the beam of raw magical energy was bounced off Celene and reflected directly onto the Imperium where it dispersed into colorless "rain," burning everything to ash.

Needless to say, the civilization that once existed on Celene (Greyspace, p. 11) was annihilated by the Baklunish also...
#6
max_writer
Feb 09, 2006 11:09:43
When my players travelled back in time to the Suel Imperium just prior to the Rain of Colorless Fire, they befriended Slerotin and discovered that psionics had been outlawed by the Emperor 500 years before. Every psionicist they could get their hands on were slaughtered, but some escaped (this was unknown to Slerotin and the adventurers). There weren't even any psionic-type spells in the Imperium as a result. Whether the Baklunish or Oeridians possessed psionics is unknown.

As far as the Rain of Colorless Fire goes, they met 23 survivors of the Baklunish Empire at Tovag Baragu; they were wizards, priests and druids. Chang, their leader, used his magic staff to activate Tovag Baragu, which was in essence a giant energy weapon: the beam of raw magical energy was bounced off Celene and reflected directly onto the Imperium where it dispersed into colorless "rain," burning everything to ash.

Needless to say, the civilization that once existed on Celene (Greyspace, p. 11) was annihilated by the Baklunish also...

I love both of these ideas (especially reflecting the spell off Celene). Way to make connections!
#7
gv_dammerung
Feb 09, 2006 13:26:35 Bruce Cordell in a Dragon article (don't recall the issue) introduced to GH "The Yellow Tome" -a psionic grimoire housed in Greyhawk's library and sought by illithids. The writeup immediately called to mind Robert W. Chambers, "The King in Yellow."
#8
extempus
Feb 09, 2006 17:31:34
I love both of these ideas (especially reflecting the spell off Celene). Way to make connections!

Being a science fiction fan also, many ideas IMC are very sci-fi, and I think the idea for the reflective properties of the Baklunish energy weapon ultimately has its roots in the reflex gun from StarBlazers' first and third seasons... when some things are left completely open, I often like to figure out how to make sense of them.

There's also the myth of Anti-Liga (Greyspace, p. 26) and its troubling disappearance that I linked directly to the Suel Emperor's ruling that outlawed psionics ca. 1,500 years ago (and this is where things can get very sci-fi IMC): the few who managed to escape the purge found themselves in what would later be known as the Sheldomar Valley and, after hiding for many months, the leader of what remained of their Order decided it would be best to move offworld, but not too far from their home. Using their awesome mental abilities, they created a small pocket universe of sorts and drew matter from the elemental planes to create an Oerth-sized world within it; since they also obviously needed a source of heat and light, they redirected Anti-Liga from it's orbit and into the dimensional fold their new world was in, where it fell into orbit around the planet.

After a millennium and a half of terraforming, it's very Oerth-like and has a population of psionicists numbering something like 100,000 (most of which are wild talents); there are no monsters (except the occasional psionic creature that finds it's way there), only normal creatures, and the inhabitants occasionally visit Oerth.

It would seem that some wild talents escaped the original purge and kept their powers secret, and their descendants later escaped the Twin Cataclysms, which explains why psionics, although known, tends to be relatively rare in the Flanaess. The original Order keeps an eye on Oerth and its psionicists, recruiting those they can to help in the fight against chaos and evil...

Things can get rather wild IMC, and I don't know how many would even care for any sci-fi elements in their own campaigns, but it works just fine for my players and I...
#9
Amaril
Feb 09, 2006 18:30:56
Bruce Cordell in a Dragon article (don't recall the issue) introduced to GH "The Yellow Tome" -a psionic grimoire housed in Greyhawk's library and sought by illithids. The writeup immediately called to mind Robert W. Chambers, "The King in Yellow."

Is the Yellow Tome the same as the Sutra of Tranquil Thought?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 the_livewire_02 Feb 20, 2005 18:43:36	OK, you'll have to excuse the incoherency, this discussion was at 2:00 AM. We were sitting around after gaming, talking about world creation. The subject of magical civilizations came up and we began to focus on the nature of magic in a stable, old (5000+), empire. We discussed the airships and lightning rails of Eberron, and the flying mountain cities of Nethril. Eventually we got to the Sueloise empire and the Baklunish. Now if I understand correctly, the Suel had bound many genies and elementals, and one of the effects of that was to have an advantage over the Baklunish. Well my friend, Tony, the expert on all things Greyhawk in our group, said that the Baklunish then had to find alternative paths of magic. Well at that point I piped up that if I recalled correctly, the only Psionic Deities in Greyhawk are Baklunish. This led the conversation towards the destruction of both civilizations. Well, with the rain of colourless fire, that sounded like the Firefall power on an Epic power on the epic scale. I mentioned to Tony the demiplane of ectoplasm by the Mind's Eye, and he suggested I post it here for discussion. So I'll toss it out into the air. Anyone given any thought to the Rain as an epic psionic power? Or psionics in Oerth in general?
#2 zombiegleemax Feb 24, 2005 21:22:01	One of the best treatments of psionics on Oerth was by Erik Mona back in 1996. See "Baklunish Delights (Part One): Xan Yae and Zuoken" in the 3d Oerth Journal, available at Canonfire.com. Ideas from that article were incorporated in the LGG. IMC, the Olman also practiced ki-related disciplines, i.e., included monks, psions, and psychic warriors. I've also recently been imagining that the soulknife is an ancient Olman fighting art. I'm unfamiliar with Epic rules, so I can't really comment in a rules-savvy way. However, you may be interested that some fans have suggested that the Rain of Colorless Fire required the invocation, manifestation, and ultimate sacrifice of a Bakluni god of magick.
#3 Elendur Feb 25, 2005 11:08:43	I injected an Elan psion NPC into my Greyhawk campaign, but I didn't worry about his origins too much, as he's a 'mysterious figure'. The Elan city is supposed to be a secret from outsiders anyway. However it would be interesting to hear speculation on where Elan might fit in Greyhawk. I guess its even possible that the Elan civilization was destroyed, but that would make my NPC awfully old.
#4 Argon Feb 26, 2005 17:33:47	believe it or not I was never a fan of a psionic deity. I always seen a practioner of the psychic arts as not believing in greater beings so to speak but in different aspects which actually represent themselves. So a god of psionics never really tickled my fancy. However I could always find ways to tie them in and create a new centralized belief system. With that said might I also add that the little mentioned Rhenee could have psionics in their ranks, preferbly those which specialize in the clarisentient disciples. I could see the Baklunish as focusing on Psychokinetic disciples as many psychokinetic powers envolve manipukation of elements hence your Rain of Colorless fire. That's if you prescribe to the psychic theory. I would think the Suel would prefer Telepathic disciples, which fits in nicely with the way the agents of the Scarlet Brotherhood operate. Though suggestions and mental manipulations these disciples fit quite nicely. Now the Flan would probably be a good fit for Psychometabolic, or Psychokinetic disciples. Once again the element factor plays to their kind. Though I could see an argument for Oeridian Psychometabolic disciples which would make sense. How ever I would think the Baklunish and Rhenee would have the highest amount of Psionic inclined people within their over all demographics. This is still low on the grand scale of things with the Suel being third and Flan being a distant fourth. Oeridian psychics should be very rare. As far as I'm concerned Elves and fey creatures should not be able to use psychic powers this is based on the magical inclinations and the fact that since 1st edition Elves where considered to have spirits not souls. While many of us reading this will say whats the difference, those of us who have played the game since 1st know that a spirit was considered completely different from a soul. Which is why certain resurrection magics didn't work on Elves. Also the Olman would probably have clarisentient disciples with some of the other disciples less likly and telepathic disciples just seem to escape them. Olman would probably be fifth amongst the human races in my book. Leaving the Touv for dead last and I would say in the rare occurence one has developed psychic powers it should be from the Psychometabolic disciple. Thats just a little piece of my take on psionics feel free to use it or not.
#5 extempus Feb 08, 2006 21:45:40	When my players travelled back in time to the Suel Imperium just prior to the Rain of Colorless Fire, they befriended Slerotin and discovered that psionics had been outlawed by the Emperor 500 years before. Every psionicist they could get their hands on were slaughtered, but some escaped (this was unknown to Slerotin and the adventurers). There weren't even any psionic-type spells in the Imperium as a result. Whether the Baklunish or Oeridians possessed psionics is unknown. As far as the Rain of Colorless Fire goes, they met 23 survivors of the Baklunish Empire at Tovag Baragu; they were wizards, priests and druids. Chang, their leader, used his magic staff to activate Tovag Baragu, which was in essence a giant energy weapon: the beam of raw magical energy was bounced off Celene and reflected directly onto the Imperium where it dispersed into colorless "rain," burning everything to ash. Needless to say, the civilization that once existed on Celene (Greyspace, p. 11) was annihilated by the Baklunish also...
#6 max_writer Feb 09, 2006 11:09:43	When my players travelled back in time to the Suel Imperium just prior to the Rain of Colorless Fire, they befriended Slerotin and discovered that psionics had been outlawed by the Emperor 500 years before. Every psionicist they could get their hands on were slaughtered, but some escaped (this was unknown to Slerotin and the adventurers). There weren't even any psionic-type spells in the Imperium as a result. Whether the Baklunish or Oeridians possessed psionics is unknown. As far as the Rain of Colorless Fire goes, they met 23 survivors of the Baklunish Empire at Tovag Baragu; they were wizards, priests and druids. Chang, their leader, used his magic staff to activate Tovag Baragu, which was in essence a giant energy weapon: the beam of raw magical energy was bounced off Celene and reflected directly onto the Imperium where it dispersed into colorless "rain," burning everything to ash. Needless to say, the civilization that once existed on Celene (Greyspace, p. 11) was annihilated by the Baklunish also... I love both of these ideas (especially reflecting the spell off Celene). Way to make connections!
#7 gv_dammerung Feb 09, 2006 13:26:35	Bruce Cordell in a Dragon article (don't recall the issue) introduced to GH "The Yellow Tome" -a psionic grimoire housed in Greyhawk's library and sought by illithids. The writeup immediately called to mind Robert W. Chambers, "The King in Yellow."
#8 extempus Feb 09, 2006 17:31:34	I love both of these ideas (especially reflecting the spell off Celene). Way to make connections! Being a science fiction fan also, many ideas IMC are very sci-fi, and I think the idea for the reflective properties of the Baklunish energy weapon ultimately has its roots in the reflex gun from StarBlazers' first and third seasons... when some things are left completely open, I often like to figure out how to make sense of them. There's also the myth of Anti-Liga (Greyspace, p. 26) and its troubling disappearance that I linked directly to the Suel Emperor's ruling that outlawed psionics ca. 1,500 years ago (and this is where things can get very sci-fi IMC): the few who managed to escape the purge found themselves in what would later be known as the Sheldomar Valley and, after hiding for many months, the leader of what remained of their Order decided it would be best to move offworld, but not too far from their home. Using their awesome mental abilities, they created a small pocket universe of sorts and drew matter from the elemental planes to create an Oerth-sized world within it; since they also obviously needed a source of heat and light, they redirected Anti-Liga from it's orbit and into the dimensional fold their new world was in, where it fell into orbit around the planet. After a millennium and a half of terraforming, it's very Oerth-like and has a population of psionicists numbering something like 100,000 (most of which are wild talents); there are no monsters (except the occasional psionic creature that finds it's way there), only normal creatures, and the inhabitants occasionally visit Oerth. It would seem that some wild talents escaped the original purge and kept their powers secret, and their descendants later escaped the Twin Cataclysms, which explains why psionics, although known, tends to be relatively rare in the Flanaess. The original Order keeps an eye on Oerth and its psionicists, recruiting those they can to help in the fight against chaos and evil... Things can get rather wild IMC, and I don't know how many would even care for any sci-fi elements in their own campaigns, but it works just fine for my players and I...
#9 Amaril Feb 09, 2006 18:30:56	Bruce Cordell in a Dragon article (don't recall the issue) introduced to GH "The Yellow Tome" -a psionic grimoire housed in Greyhawk's library and sought by illithids. The writeup immediately called to mind Robert W. Chambers, "The King in Yellow." Is the Yellow Tome the same as the Sutra of Tranquil Thought?