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How??

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Feb 22, 2005 9:17:33 The question is simple, how on earth can the DM provide the players with a vision in the planescape setting; especially when in Sigil you can find Aasimovs and Baatezu walking side to side and all kinds of alien species contacting people from all core worlds???

Of course this question comes from the mouth of someone who has tried 3 times and failed to capture the meaning of Planescape and thus has abandoned the concept; but I am curious to see how do you deal with atmosphere and general mood...
#2
Cyriss
Feb 22, 2005 12:00:53 I use lots of descriptions. Read the Planescape books and take notes. They describe atmosphere pretty well. For Sigil, read In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil and throw in NPC's from Faces of Sigil. Faces of Sigil helps set atmosphere because it allows the players to interact socially with all kinds of great creatures that they wouldn't normally do business with in a normal setting. Show them lots of illustrations from the books. Make up encounters that aren't meant to be fought, but more to teach them about the setting.

If you want them to know about Aasimars having drinks with Fiends, then the next time they are in a bar, have some Abishai approach them wanting to have a drinking game. Or have a Deva offer to buy them a drink if they'll sit with him and listen to him preach about his god. I once described a fiend at a table with a celestial creature in some type of political argument about good and evil while the PC's sat at a nearby table eavesdropping.

Reading the books and then dropping in descriptions every chance I get is my method for describing the setting. Also, you can let them read the "Player's Guide to _______" books that come with each Planescape box set. That's the easiest way for them to get a feel for the setting.
#3
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Feb 22, 2005 22:08:17
I use lots of descriptions.

You can never go overboard with lavish descriptions and details to set the mood and the tone of the setting. Do this the moment they get into Sigil, for example, and it'll be set in their minds for the rest of the game and you can go a bit lighter on it later on (if that's not normally your style).
#4
sildatorak
Feb 22, 2005 23:09:05 To get across the importance of belief, I usually have run of the mill NPC's intersperce comments about their philosophy. For example a armor smith that they are buying a suit of platemail might be a talkitive godsman who talks about how he used to adventure, but then decided that the real test of life was to create things of beauty and utility that will endure longer than a baatezu will stay dead.
#5
zombiegleemax
Feb 23, 2005 7:35:26 One more important thing - avoid stereotypes. Don't let all the people look the same. It's very easy with members of factions and sects - perpetually depressed, but good and helpful Bleakers, stubborn Hardheads (of course, eeeeeevil or neutral), scramblespeaking Xaositecs, Sinkers destroying things, and so. Yes, they are mostly like that, but not all of them actually are. The Hardhead, which the group encountered, could be a helpful, calm basher who'd rather try to talk them, than scrag for something he found illegal. Sinkers, in fact, are divided - there are three splinter groups (one trying to speed up the process of crumbling, one watching it and one wishing to slow it down). The first one is dominant, but it's important the others exists too. And it's good to show the faction's belief could be understood differently. You could put into your campaign two members of the same faction arguing (for example Guvners - is the letter of the rules really important, or the spirit?). And the NPC fanatical in his beliefs, despised even by his own faction can be a great enemy for the players.
#6
voldenuit
Feb 23, 2005 8:18:38
The question is simple, how on earth can the DM provide the players with a vision in the planescape setting; especially when in Sigil you can find Aasimovs and Baatezu walking side to side and all kinds of alien species contacting people from all core worlds???

Why mazel tov, it's Asimov,
A blessing on his head!
For many a year,
I'd lived in fear,
That he was long since dead!

I guess that explains what happened to his petitioner. Was Azazel involved? :angelhide

Of course this question comes from the mouth of someone who has tried 3 times and failed to capture the meaning of Planescape and thus has abandoned the concept; but I am curious to see how do you deal with atmosphere and general mood...

On a serious note, however, Planescape is what you make it. Unfortunately, it's far too easy to fall short of the heady ideal of the sourcebooks.

One of the things I do with any PC group unfamiliar with the Planes is to always start them on the Prime. Get them familiar with "evil" orcs, "devillish" fiends and tyrannical mind-flayers, then pull the rug from under them when they enter Sigil. Now, things are no longer as they seem, and for players who are used to a more conventional (boring) Tolkien-esque vision of Medieval fantasy, this can be a rude awakening. The multiverse is no longer cast in black and white, but in shades of grey (and colour) instead. And even the shades of grey depend on the observer and are open to question.

In Planescape, it is not a question of what is "good", but instead what is "right". Not only will the opinion of the individual players vary on the matter, they are not always mutually incompatible. Once the players have been exposed to enough ethical dilemnas (and their resolutions), both the DM and the players should have a clearer idea of where their tendencies lie. At which point the players might find a faction or sect particularly appealing to them.

A recent Planescape campaign I had involved the players averting a full-on assault on the Upper Planes by the combined might of the 'zu and 'ri (this was set in the distant past after the Celestials had launched their fatal attack on the Blood War forces tens of thousands of years ago). After succeeding through some clever espionage on their part, they discovered that one of the Celestials, Triel of the Hebdomad, had been responsible for orchestratig the Celestial attack on the fiends to advance his own position. And that he had been in league with the 'loths. Furthermore, the party discovered that they themselves had been 'loth pawns in a bid to prevent the other fiendish races from reconciling their differences and defeating the Celestials. As well as sowing dissention and corruption among and between the Aasimon, Guardinals, Eladrin and other celestials. The conclusion and subsequent revelations had the party questioning whether their actions had been right after all, but also much speculation on what "would have been right" in the first place. Clearly, they didn't want the Tanar'ri and Baatezu to conquer the Upper Planes, but had their actions furthered the cause of good or evil? Trielwas cast down from Celestia and ended up as Baalzebul, lord of the flies. Was that a victory for Good (casting out a corrupt Celestial), the Baatezu (gaining a new Lord), or the Yugoloths (sowing seeds of evil in Celestia and disturbing the balance of power in Hell)?

I find it's when you get the party to question their motivations and goals that you get the best roleplaying out of your PCs. But your mileage will vary.
#7
zombiegleemax
Mar 10, 2005 23:56:35 Isaac Asimov talks to Baatezu?!!

Seriously, though...
As said, study the books. You should set as a goal, a sense of wonder, and maybe, one's insignificance in comparison to the multiverse.

Good luck!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Feb 22, 2005 9:17:33	The question is simple, how on earth can the DM provide the players with a vision in the planescape setting; especially when in Sigil you can find Aasimovs and Baatezu walking side to side and all kinds of alien species contacting people from all core worlds??? Of course this question comes from the mouth of someone who has tried 3 times and failed to capture the meaning of Planescape and thus has abandoned the concept; but I am curious to see how do you deal with atmosphere and general mood...
#2 Cyriss Feb 22, 2005 12:00:53	I use lots of descriptions. Read the Planescape books and take notes. They describe atmosphere pretty well. For Sigil, read In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil and throw in NPC's from Faces of Sigil. Faces of Sigil helps set atmosphere because it allows the players to interact socially with all kinds of great creatures that they wouldn't normally do business with in a normal setting. Show them lots of illustrations from the books. Make up encounters that aren't meant to be fought, but more to teach them about the setting. If you want them to know about Aasimars having drinks with Fiends, then the next time they are in a bar, have some Abishai approach them wanting to have a drinking game. Or have a Deva offer to buy them a drink if they'll sit with him and listen to him preach about his god. I once described a fiend at a table with a celestial creature in some type of political argument about good and evil while the PC's sat at a nearby table eavesdropping. Reading the books and then dropping in descriptions every chance I get is my method for describing the setting. Also, you can let them read the "Player's Guide to _______" books that come with each Planescape box set. That's the easiest way for them to get a feel for the setting.
#3 Shemeska_the_Marauder Feb 22, 2005 22:08:17	I use lots of descriptions. You can never go overboard with lavish descriptions and details to set the mood and the tone of the setting. Do this the moment they get into Sigil, for example, and it'll be set in their minds for the rest of the game and you can go a bit lighter on it later on (if that's not normally your style).
#4 sildatorak Feb 22, 2005 23:09:05	To get across the importance of belief, I usually have run of the mill NPC's intersperce comments about their philosophy. For example a armor smith that they are buying a suit of platemail might be a talkitive godsman who talks about how he used to adventure, but then decided that the real test of life was to create things of beauty and utility that will endure longer than a baatezu will stay dead.
#5 zombiegleemax Feb 23, 2005 7:35:26	One more important thing - avoid stereotypes. Don't let all the people look the same. It's very easy with members of factions and sects - perpetually depressed, but good and helpful Bleakers, stubborn Hardheads (of course, eeeeeevil or neutral), scramblespeaking Xaositecs, Sinkers destroying things, and so. Yes, they are mostly like that, but not all of them actually are. The Hardhead, which the group encountered, could be a helpful, calm basher who'd rather try to talk them, than scrag for something he found illegal. Sinkers, in fact, are divided - there are three splinter groups (one trying to speed up the process of crumbling, one watching it and one wishing to slow it down). The first one is dominant, but it's important the others exists too. And it's good to show the faction's belief could be understood differently. You could put into your campaign two members of the same faction arguing (for example Guvners - is the letter of the rules really important, or the spirit?). And the NPC fanatical in his beliefs, despised even by his own faction can be a great enemy for the players.
#6 voldenuit Feb 23, 2005 8:18:38	The question is simple, how on earth can the DM provide the players with a vision in the planescape setting; especially when in Sigil you can find Aasimovs and Baatezu walking side to side and all kinds of alien species contacting people from all core worlds??? Why mazel tov, it's Asimov, A blessing on his head! For many a year, I'd lived in fear, That he was long since dead! I guess that explains what happened to his petitioner. Was Azazel involved? :angelhide Of course this question comes from the mouth of someone who has tried 3 times and failed to capture the meaning of Planescape and thus has abandoned the concept; but I am curious to see how do you deal with atmosphere and general mood... On a serious note, however, Planescape is what you make it. Unfortunately, it's far too easy to fall short of the heady ideal of the sourcebooks. One of the things I do with any PC group unfamiliar with the Planes is to always start them on the Prime. Get them familiar with "evil" orcs, "devillish" fiends and tyrannical mind-flayers, then pull the rug from under them when they enter Sigil. Now, things are no longer as they seem, and for players who are used to a more conventional (boring) Tolkien-esque vision of Medieval fantasy, this can be a rude awakening. The multiverse is no longer cast in black and white, but in shades of grey (and colour) instead. And even the shades of grey depend on the observer and are open to question. In Planescape, it is not a question of what is "good", but instead what is "right". Not only will the opinion of the individual players vary on the matter, they are not always mutually incompatible. Once the players have been exposed to enough ethical dilemnas (and their resolutions), both the DM and the players should have a clearer idea of where their tendencies lie. At which point the players might find a faction or sect particularly appealing to them. A recent Planescape campaign I had involved the players averting a full-on assault on the Upper Planes by the combined might of the 'zu and 'ri (this was set in the distant past after the Celestials had launched their fatal attack on the Blood War forces tens of thousands of years ago). After succeeding through some clever espionage on their part, they discovered that one of the Celestials, Triel of the Hebdomad, had been responsible for orchestratig the Celestial attack on the fiends to advance his own position. And that he had been in league with the 'loths. Furthermore, the party discovered that they themselves had been 'loth pawns in a bid to prevent the other fiendish races from reconciling their differences and defeating the Celestials. As well as sowing dissention and corruption among and between the Aasimon, Guardinals, Eladrin and other celestials. The conclusion and subsequent revelations had the party questioning whether their actions had been right after all, but also much speculation on what "would have been right" in the first place. Clearly, they didn't want the Tanar'ri and Baatezu to conquer the Upper Planes, but had their actions furthered the cause of good or evil? Trielwas cast down from Celestia and ended up as Baalzebul, lord of the flies. Was that a victory for Good (casting out a corrupt Celestial), the Baatezu (gaining a new Lord), or the Yugoloths (sowing seeds of evil in Celestia and disturbing the balance of power in Hell)? I find it's when you get the party to question their motivations and goals that you get the best roleplaying out of your PCs. But your mileage will vary.
#7 zombiegleemax Mar 10, 2005 23:56:35	Isaac Asimov talks to Baatezu?!! Seriously, though... As said, study the books. You should set as a goal, a sense of wonder, and maybe, one's insignificance in comparison to the multiverse. Good luck!