Think of High Sorcery as NOT depending on the gods... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Think of High Sorcery as NOT depending on the gods...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
caeruleus
Feb 28, 2005 13:54:18 IIRC, arcane magic on Krynn was not originally conceived of as relying on the gods of magic. Not that they were irrelevant, but their disappearance would not have made arcane magic disappear. That's why there were still wizards after the Cataclysm.

The current interpretation is that the gods of magic stuck around after the Cataclysm, even though the other gods "left". But since all the gods really did disappear after the Chaos War, High Sorcery also vanished.

I've always preferred the original view, that while mortals initially learned about High Sorcery from the gods of magic, they don't rely on the gods just to be able to use it. But then how to make sense of the loss of High Sorcery after the Chaos War?

Well, here's an idea, and I'm wondering what people think of it. After Takhesis steals the world, she is able to drain all arcane energy to help her recover (easy if no other god stops her). But since she needs more power, she reveals primal sorcery and mysticism to mortals, and their use of it allows her to draw even more power from them.

Yes, this is very rough. Has anyone seen an interpretation like this before?
#2
zombiegleemax
Feb 28, 2005 20:49:29 I have two views of how magic by wizards work....

That is, I believe more or less that the Moons of Magic "radiate" magic, and when invoked properly, allows wizards to use their magic. I think a wizard has to have both an inborn abillity to use it, as well as the years of study to do it.

Sorcerors, in my opinion, have the magic "in their blood", be it how described by the Players Handbook (ie, ancient dragonblood in their viens via decendents) or so on. In DragonLance, it seems that perhaps Sorcerorous magic should "come from Mother Krynn itselfs", and thus allows their magic. I would borrow from WHITE WOLF"s MAGE: THE ACCENSION and also have the Nodes/Caerns where magic flows stronger as ways of Sorcerreros to "keep the magic strong" and such. In any case, you are either borne a sorceror or you are not, you don't just say "oh, time to be a sorceror".

But this is just me, go anyway you want.
#3
zombiegleemax
Feb 28, 2005 23:02:09 The way I see it, magic is much like electromagnetic waves in physics. At different frequencies the waves are used by different people for different things. At a certain frequency, these waves become visible to us, and seem as natural as hearing and feeling. At higher or lower frequencies, we need abstract theories and specialized instruments in order to use and detect these waves.
This is how I view magic on Krynn, at certain energies (?) magic is accessible directly to humans or any creature that has an affinity for it. But at higher energies, only by using equations (somatic componants), special devices ( material focii and componants), and abstract theory can the magic be accessed. So while sorcery and high sorcery appear to be different, they are merely different perspectives of the same thing.
#4
zombiegleemax
Feb 28, 2005 23:39:57 Sorry, double post.
#5
zombiegleemax
Mar 01, 2005 18:22:08 I like the way that High Sorcery is presented. That the while the gods are required for High Sorcery to be used, they do not grant it to their followers as other gods do to clerics. Magic exsits naturally, not on a weave but infused into the essence of everything created. All the gods of magic do is to remove the more chaotic energies from that primal magic so that it can be used safely by mortals. Also, it is not only the 3 cousins that can provide this filtering process, any god can. Takhisis demonstrated this with her gray robe wizards just prior to and during the Chaos War. It makes logical sense especially with the introduction of sorcerers as a playable class.
#6
orodruin
Mar 01, 2005 18:47:22 It's been a while, but from what I remember, Solinari, Lunitari, and Nuitari were still revered by the Wizards of High Sorcery; even after the Cataclysm. Worship of the old gods didn't die out completely, it was forgotten by most of the population, but a very select few (which included wizards with regard to the three gods of magic) still stuck with it to some degree.
#7
zombiegleemax
Mar 02, 2005 8:13:01 Though the gods of magic created the Orders of High Sorcery and are (through the moons) the source of wizardly magic on Krynn -- they do not "grant" spells to their followers in the same sense that other gods do upon clerics. It's the moons that exude magical energy, and trained wizards can use it to cast spells, even if they don't believe in the gods at all.

Another thing to remember is that the gods did not leave Krynn after the Cataclysm. People stopped worshipping the gods, and most forgot about them completely. But the gods were still there, all three moons and every constellation (until two of them disappeared from the sky, but that's another story).

But when Krynn was ripped away to another part of the universe, with the moons of magic gone, wizardly magic did not work. And without the gods to grant divine magic, clerics were also stripped of their powers.

Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
#8
wolffenjugend_dup
Mar 02, 2005 8:19:48 I don't like the idea of seperating arcane magic and the gods of magic any further than it already is. There are no clerics of the moons, so that leaves arcane spellcasters as representatives. I also like how novels portray spellcasters as giving deference and slight prayers to the gods of magic, especially when spellcasting. Not as much as clerics, but just enough to show their respect for the moons. Very good, IMO.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 caeruleus Feb 28, 2005 13:54:18	IIRC, arcane magic on Krynn was not originally conceived of as relying on the gods of magic. Not that they were irrelevant, but their disappearance would not have made arcane magic disappear. That's why there were still wizards after the Cataclysm. The current interpretation is that the gods of magic stuck around after the Cataclysm, even though the other gods "left". But since all the gods really did disappear after the Chaos War, High Sorcery also vanished. I've always preferred the original view, that while mortals initially learned about High Sorcery from the gods of magic, they don't rely on the gods just to be able to use it. But then how to make sense of the loss of High Sorcery after the Chaos War? Well, here's an idea, and I'm wondering what people think of it. After Takhesis steals the world, she is able to drain all arcane energy to help her recover (easy if no other god stops her). But since she needs more power, she reveals primal sorcery and mysticism to mortals, and their use of it allows her to draw even more power from them. Yes, this is very rough. Has anyone seen an interpretation like this before?
#2 zombiegleemax Feb 28, 2005 20:49:29	I have two views of how magic by wizards work.... That is, I believe more or less that the Moons of Magic "radiate" magic, and when invoked properly, allows wizards to use their magic. I think a wizard has to have both an inborn abillity to use it, as well as the years of study to do it. Sorcerors, in my opinion, have the magic "in their blood", be it how described by the Players Handbook (ie, ancient dragonblood in their viens via decendents) or so on. In DragonLance, it seems that perhaps Sorcerorous magic should "come from Mother Krynn itselfs", and thus allows their magic. I would borrow from WHITE WOLF"s MAGE: THE ACCENSION and also have the Nodes/Caerns where magic flows stronger as ways of Sorcerreros to "keep the magic strong" and such. In any case, you are either borne a sorceror or you are not, you don't just say "oh, time to be a sorceror". But this is just me, go anyway you want.
#3 zombiegleemax Feb 28, 2005 23:02:09	The way I see it, magic is much like electromagnetic waves in physics. At different frequencies the waves are used by different people for different things. At a certain frequency, these waves become visible to us, and seem as natural as hearing and feeling. At higher or lower frequencies, we need abstract theories and specialized instruments in order to use and detect these waves. This is how I view magic on Krynn, at certain energies (?) magic is accessible directly to humans or any creature that has an affinity for it. But at higher energies, only by using equations (somatic componants), special devices ( material focii and componants), and abstract theory can the magic be accessed. So while sorcery and high sorcery appear to be different, they are merely different perspectives of the same thing.
#4 zombiegleemax Feb 28, 2005 23:39:57	Sorry, double post.
#5 zombiegleemax Mar 01, 2005 18:22:08	I like the way that High Sorcery is presented. That the while the gods are required for High Sorcery to be used, they do not grant it to their followers as other gods do to clerics. Magic exsits naturally, not on a weave but infused into the essence of everything created. All the gods of magic do is to remove the more chaotic energies from that primal magic so that it can be used safely by mortals. Also, it is not only the 3 cousins that can provide this filtering process, any god can. Takhisis demonstrated this with her gray robe wizards just prior to and during the Chaos War. It makes logical sense especially with the introduction of sorcerers as a playable class.
#6 orodruin Mar 01, 2005 18:47:22	It's been a while, but from what I remember, Solinari, Lunitari, and Nuitari were still revered by the Wizards of High Sorcery; even after the Cataclysm. Worship of the old gods didn't die out completely, it was forgotten by most of the population, but a very select few (which included wizards with regard to the three gods of magic) still stuck with it to some degree.
#7 zombiegleemax Mar 02, 2005 8:13:01	Though the gods of magic created the Orders of High Sorcery and are (through the moons) the source of wizardly magic on Krynn -- they do not "grant" spells to their followers in the same sense that other gods do upon clerics. It's the moons that exude magical energy, and trained wizards can use it to cast spells, even if they don't believe in the gods at all. Another thing to remember is that the gods did not leave Krynn after the Cataclysm. People stopped worshipping the gods, and most forgot about them completely. But the gods were still there, all three moons and every constellation (until two of them disappeared from the sky, but that's another story). But when Krynn was ripped away to another part of the universe, with the moons of magic gone, wizardly magic did not work. And without the gods to grant divine magic, clerics were also stripped of their powers. Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#8 wolffenjugend_dup Mar 02, 2005 8:19:48	I don't like the idea of seperating arcane magic and the gods of magic any further than it already is. There are no clerics of the moons, so that leaves arcane spellcasters as representatives. I also like how novels portray spellcasters as giving deference and slight prayers to the gods of magic, especially when spellcasting. Not as much as clerics, but just enough to show their respect for the moons. Very good, IMO.