Also, since I can get it for so cheap, I'm thinking about maybe another one fo the Complete Books. I already have Complete Warrior, so with the party mentioned above, does anybody know which one would work out best? The Priest is basically just taking Cleric classes, he only took 1 level of Monk for its unarmed abilities, and he's started down Dracolyte. The Ranger is mostly a fighter; he has Legionnaire, Legion Knight (off the Nexus), and Blademaster (fan class), and just raised a level, and still can't decide whether he wants to take a level in Rogue, Ranger, Barbarian, Druid, Fighter, Marshal, Mindblade (a non-psionic variant), Martial Artist (fan class), Legion Knight, Legionnaire, or Lion of Talisid. Or Scout, when I get CAd. Very frustrating, I know. Anywho, the Bard's a Kapak who also has levels of Dragon Disciple, and is also interested in Dragon Samurai (modified) and Dragonkith, and the Kendragon has a Dhamon thing going on, and so in one form he's a Kender Sorcerer/Rogue considering Spelltheif or Spellfilch, and in the other he's a brass dragon considering taking levels of Elemental Master or Mystic.
From this party setup, which book seems best? Maybe a different book entirely? I'm open for ideas. I already have all the DL books except for WotL and ToHS, and I also have CW, Draconomicon, Book of Exalted Deeds, and Tome & Blood. THanks for any help anybody can provide.
*For that the mighty WizOs don't beat me for affecting the company's business:* From the stuff that is now available, I'd recommend you to buy *Ghostwalk*, although this isn't essentially DL, or maybe Towers of High Sorcery, which is the best SovPress book out there so far and can provide you with many hooks for advanced level adventures, even if there are no mages in your party. IIRC, there was some free preview out there a while ago...
Besides, if you're looking for free stuff, check out the Taladas books for DL.
They have formed my basic DL library for years, always providing me with some new facettes for my playing group's characters and can introduce you into a whole new game setting.
For DL specific, the Tobril mags can also provide you with a lot of useful info and hooks.
Finally, again on free stuff: My experience was that for nearly every character class there are hundreds of web enhancement somewhere. Maybe that would help your party better than buying an expensive book - I mean, 30 $ of which you are basically going to use five to ten percent of its content is pretty obscene.
However, just pick what brings fun to your game!
Ghostwalk sounds pretty cool, but since we exclusively play DL, I doubt I'd make much use of it. And, again, I dunno about ToHS. Besides, I can get 2 Complete books for $30 off Amazon, which is really good.
If you don't want ToHS, I must confess that I don't know what else could be interesting for DL... *I like the book because it may give fulfillment to my dream of laying siege to the tower of Wayreth* Tried the bestiary?
However, that offer concerning the *Complete* books sounds interesting, too...
For non DL specific materials, "Complete Warrior" is an AWESOME addition. "Ghostwalk", while I'm not too familiar with it, sounds intriguing as well, especially since you are playing the KoD adventure, and there is alot of indirect involvement with Chemosh going on, so an undead supplement might work out nicely. In that regard, the "Libris Mortis" might be a nifty book to check out, what with all the new types of undead, weapons, and options it opens up for playing undead NPCs, etc. Also as suggested, the "Draconomicon" is a good choice as well.
Third tier suggestions might be the book of "Exalted Deeds" and it's opposite (can't remember the title- "Foul Deeds"? or something like that?) And the paperback character class supplements which introduce alot of new feats, abilities, prestige classes, etc.
I already have all the DL books except for WotL and ToHS, and I also have CW, Draconomicon, Book of Exalted Deeds, and Tome & Blood. THanks for any help anybody can provide.
:D
Sorry, I'm being a bit of a smart *****. It's just, it was *IN* the first post!
Third tier suggestions might be the book of "Exalted Deeds" and it's opposite (can't remember the title- "Foul Deeds"? or something like that?) .
I think it was "The book of vile darkness". Which was actually quite good if I remember correctly.
If you are going for some class or ability books, I actually like the "old" 3.0 guidebooks better than the new "complete ........ series". I admit complete warrior has a few better details, but on whole I liked the old ones better, more describtions, more hooks.
Hmm...Draconomicon...sounds interesting...wait, I already own it. Well, there's the Bestiary...wait, I already own that one too. Maybe Complete Warrior...nope, already got that one. Well, there's still Tome & Blood and the Book of Exalted Deeds...wait, I own those too. In fact:
:D
Sorry, I'm being a bit of a smart *****. It's just, it was *IN* the first post!
Ya ask for help, and this is the thanks we get. Okaaaay, duly noted...
ps- "Tome & Blood" is only one of the about 5 different character class supplement books, I didn't specifically site "Tome & Blood" though. There is also "Defenders of the Faith" (clerics and paladins), "Song & Silence" (bards and rogues), "Masters of the Wild" (druid, barbarian and ranger), and "Sword & Fist" (fighters and monks).
In an effort to remain 'helpful'- there is also "Complete Arcana" in case your still open for suggestions. "Sandstorm" comes out this month, detailing optional rules on wastelands desolate climates. Might be good for the Desolation in case your still in that 'neck of the woods'
hehe.
I think it was "The book of vile darkness". Which was actually quite good if I remember correctly.
If you are going for some class or ability books, I actually like the "old" 3.0 guidebooks better than the new "complete ........ series". I admit complete warrior has a few better details, but on whole I liked the old ones better, more describtions, more hooks.
"Book of Vile Darkness"! That's the one! Yay! (totally couldn't remember the name of that book). When you say the old books, are you talking about the ones like "Masters of the Wild" (ranger, druid, barbarian supplement), "Tome and Blood" (wizard and sorcerer supplement) etc?
Some of the ones, like the Lost Empires book that just came out for FR are really good, but more for spellcasters. Complete Divine is pretty much good for any cleric, it just has a bunch of errors in it so you have to watch out. Amazingly, the "Races of" books have been pretty neat. There are feats thrown in them that are good and can apply to anyone, not just the races in the books. They throw some gems in different books sometimes. I like Complete Adventurer a lot and recommend that to anyone, right after Complete Warrior.
I dunno, I know someone said to get Ghostwalk, but I thought that book was horrible. I dont even read over it at all. Now maybe there's some hidden gems for people who can find them, but for me that book was a waste of time and space... but to each their own.
I think Complete Adventurer is a very good choice. Dunno what else really.. I liked Frostburn a lot.. heck a lot better than Libris Mortis. That was surprising.
I dunno, I know someone said to get Ghostwalk, but I thought that book was horrible. I dont even read over it at all. Now maybe there's some hidden gems for people who can find them, but for me that book was a waste of time and space... but to each their own.
I think Complete Adventurer is a very good choice. Dunno what else really.. I liked Frostburn a lot.. heck a lot better than Libris Mortis. That was surprising.
Hmm, I haven't really looked over Ghostwalk in depth, but that's pretty interesting. Maybe my instinct to stay away from it was worth it.
I hadn't actually even heard of Frostburn until now (stoopid book stores not carrying everything around here, *grumble grumble*). Maybe I'll check that out, could come in handy. I kinda like Libris Mortis though, then again, I always found undead monsters to be interesting, so maybe I was predisposed toward it anyway. Ah well, to each their own I guess. Hmm, I haven't really looked over Ghostwalk in depth, but that's pretty interesting. Maybe my instinct to stay away from it was worth it.
Sandstorm is soon to be released as well. That looks interesting as well.
Sandstorm is soon to be released as well. That looks interesting as well.
Yuppers, that would probably be a good one for anyone playing the desolation for KoD, or for anyone running their own campaigns in arid and/or desolate places for that matter.
But yea I plan on getting Sandstorm. As I said, Forstburn blew my expectations away really. When I compared the Libris Mortis and Frostburn, I find the Libris Mortis lacking. It was so small, and didnt really have enough in it.. in my opinion. I dunno.. everyone's different.
If Sandstorm is made up like Frostburn, I'll be happy. I think these environment books will be better and better. I didnt think they would get much use from me, but I've actually started contemplating having my PC's go to Icewall so i can use a lot of stuff that was in Frostburn.
Like any book though, I'd advise you to look it over at a Barnes and Nobles, Waldenbooks, etc before you order it. What one person likes, another can see as pure crap..
Sysane, you say that because you favor Dark Sun
Tis true. Dark Sun is my gaming passion, but I've always had a soft spot for DL. ;)
Tis true. Dark Sun is my gaming passion, but I've always had a soft spot for DL. ;)
If only someone could get the license for Dark Sun, and give us some 'official' stuff for that game setting. I was always curious about Dark Sun, but I never had the chance to get into it. Does it have the "Arabian Knights" feel to it that I always kinda got the impression of? If so, I might go about hunting the old 2.0 sourcebooks down...
Some of the ones, like the Lost Empires book that just came out for FR are really good, but more for spellcasters.
I was suprised at how much I liked this book while reading it in the store. I don't play a FR game, but I'm tempted to pick it up anyway.
The best thing about it was that it in many ways was both about gaming during those time periods, and it was the legacies these time periods have left behind. Something I think would be important if we were to do sourcebooks on the Age of Dreams, the Age of Light, or the Age of Might.
So for example, when talking about Istar you would want to talk about who in the current world is descended from the Istarians (ie. Nereka, Saifhum) and how ancient Istar has carried forth into these societies.
Thus it not only gives a good sourcebook for those that want to play in that era, but enriches a more current campaign (WotL or 5th Age)
If only someone could get the license for Dark Sun, and give us some 'official' stuff for that game setting. I was always curious about Dark Sun, but I never had the chance to get into it. Does it have the "Arabian Knights" feel to it that I always kinda got the impression of? If so, I might go about hunting the old 2.0 sourcebooks down...
Not at all. Its more like Mad Max meets AD&D. Its a post holocaustic world and heavily steeped in psionics.
No its not an Arabian feel. Its more primitive..if thats the word for it. Everyone is fighting to survive in the harsh world, so you see weird alliances and different kinds of half-breeds. The races are the main thing that attract me to Dark Sun... double crossing elves, half-dwaves who are built, all bald dwarves who worship the sun, Thri-kreen running around, etc. The inclusion of psionics is just gravy also. Its mainstream..which is nice.
I dunnoo, I dont think i can properly describe the world, so I'll leave that to someone else. I would definately advise anyone to at least check out a book or two about the world.. actually the more I talk about it, the more I want to play... =\
check out athas.org also.. they have free 3.5 rules for download. They are pretty good at their job.
No its not an Arabian feel. Its more primitive..if thats the word for it. Everyone is fighting to survive in the harsh world, so you see weird alliances and different kinds of half-breeds. The races are the main thing that attract me to Dark Sun... double crossing elves, half-dwaves who are built, all bald dwarves who worship the sun, Thri-kreen running around, etc. The inclusion of psionics is just gravy also. Its mainstream..which is nice.
check out athas.org also.. they have free 3.5 rules for download. They are pretty good at their job.
Well Said
I do have to admit that most of what I judge a book by, is things like feats, spells, PrC, etc... and I know a lot of people dont. But ferratus, you pointed out the other gems that are in the book. Personally I love reading the history of a lot of the old empires. Especially since I dont have a lot of the 2e stuff...I dont have nearly as much FR 2e stuff as Dragonlance. Its nice to have everything condensed down into one volume. I tell you what, its a much better book than all the different Region books for FR, but in fairness.. its supposed to be more general than those, so you cant hold it against the Region books.
I dunno, my group and I are constantly looking over many different books, from many different worlds in order to get the things we want. I love it... just because I value options. ferratus, seriously I'd pick it up if I were you just to have and be able to reference. Most of the stuff in there like spells, feats, etc are mainly for spellcasters though, thats why I didnt thing Jacen would necessarily want it. 2 of my players(and I) love spellcasters so I'm constantly looking for things for them. The feats that let a specialist wizard still use items, spells, and such from a banned school have gotten more than a glancing over by my brother. Unfortunately he's kind of limited, seeing as how he's on the road to Archmage... not a lot of extra feats for him to "waste" on other things
No its not an Arabian feel. Its more primitive..if thats the word for it. Everyone is fighting to survive in the harsh world, so you see weird alliances and different kinds of half-breeds. The races are the main thing that attract me to Dark Sun... double crossing elves, half-dwaves who are built, all bald dwarves who worship the sun, Thri-kreen running around, etc. The inclusion of psionics is just gravy also. Its mainstream..which is nice.
Hmm, not too sure if I wanna get into psionics all that much, but I like the sound of the rest of it. Maybe I will look into it all the same. Thanks for the feedback guys.
Personally I always have loved psionics. From the second I saw them. But it was always wacking and just weird. Until this last book came out. Seriously, the Psion is everything that the Sorceror should be. I would *love* to play a psion. They have the true flexibility to do what they want, way more than a sorceror. I still think the sorceror has its niche... but I think a lot of people dont like it because they expected it to be something like what the new Psion ends up being.
Even if you dont like psionics though, amazingly that book has feats for other people to. Like theres a feat for Rogues, whenever you roll a 1 on a sneak attack dice, you get to reroll that dice(keeping a 1 if it came up again). Personally I buy almost every book so I never miss out on much, but for people that only be certain things I sometimes feel bad for them because they miss out on little things like feats, etc that the designers put in books that you wouldnt necessarily expect.
After the Complete Adventurer...I really dont know another "general" book that would appeal to a lot of people. Most of the books are made for a "niche" and if you dont like that niche, it almost isnt worth it for ya.
Personally I always have loved psionics. From the second I saw them. But it was always wacking and just weird. Until this last book came out. Seriously, the Psion is everything that the Sorceror should be. I would *love* to play a psion. They have the true flexibility to do what they want, way more than a sorceror. I still think the sorceror has its niche... but I think a lot of people dont like it because they expected it to be something like what the new Psion ends up being.
I'm currently a player in three on going campaigns. World Largest Dungeon, Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, and FR. In each of them I play a psionic character. Each of them are different.
I love psionics
Hmm, not too sure if I wanna get into psionics all that much, but I like the sound of the rest of it. Maybe I will look into it all the same. Thanks for the feedback guys.
Dark Sun was created to deal with a style of fantasy D&D had largely overlooked until that point - the "swords and sandals" fantasy popularized by Robert E. Howard's Conan and Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter Warlord of Mars, with nubile slave girls, vile sorcerer-kings, gladiatorial combat, deserts, brawny muscular warriors, creepy lizard-like and insect-like monsters, and so forth. It's very much derived from those sources.
Cheers,
Cam
Has anyone else been impressed with Frostburn or just me? Some of the stuff is annoying because you can't use some of the stuff without being in an "ice region". But for something like Icewall, it works great. I dunno, it was amazing how much I was amazed by Frostburn, and let down by Libris Mortis. It was supposed to be like what Draconimicon is for dragons, and I didnt get that feel at all.
Jacen you pretty much you have pretty much all the good "general" books. Without going into a niche, I really dont know what to tell you would be a good book to buy. Heh heck if you just want something for your players to read, get the Eberron CS.. its a real good book. Or if it comes down to it, buy any of the Dragonlance books that you dont already have... you should be able to find a use for any of them somewhere. I've been referencing the War of the Lance book a lot lately.
I think I must get Complete Divine, because the poor cleric has to go poring through stuff on warriors and mages to get the occasional feat or spell.
I think I will also get a 3.5 DMG and possibly a 3.5 MM, since I've had to use the SRD since 3.5 came out.
Thanks for all the help, and I' am still up for suggesitons.
"Book of Vile Darkness"! That's the one! Yay! (totally couldn't remember the name of that book). When you say the old books, are you talking about the ones like "Masters of the Wild" (ranger, druid, barbarian supplement), "Tome and Blood" (wizard and sorcerer supplement) etc?
Yes that series, I think they were called guidebooks. Masters of the wild, sword and fist, and so on.
I actually think that they are better than the complete ... -series.
The complete ...., have a few better chapters, but they lack describtions instead they have rules.
but it is a matter of taste.
Yes that series, I think they were called guidebooks. Masters of the wild, sword and fist, and so on.
I actually think that they are better than the complete ... -series.
The complete ...., have a few better chapters, but they lack describtions instead they have rules.
but it is a matter of taste.
I think by and large, I agree with you on that. The older supplements seemed to get right to the heart of the matter, and gave you material to really work with. The Complete series seems like it has most of the same stuff, but wrapped in superfluous fluff IMHO, so your not really getting your money's worth. That's my $.02 on the matter though, as I'm sure there are those who disagree. :P
Well, sorry for what I said earlier. But, I own all the DL books sans WotL and ToHS, I own all the splat books, but only T&B in hard copy.
Good to hear that.
... ;) Just to jump on Ghostwalk again, the book's not bad at all. It describes more or less a city of the dead and its environs; in addition, you get some clues on how to managae one of your players if his characters passes away...
IMHO, it's one of the freshest concepts of 3e, and I quite liked it, although it's not the *best* book around.
As for the Desolation, keep in mind that there is yet a complete 3.5 bestiary for Dark Sun out on athas.org.
Has anyone else been impressed with Frostburn or just me? Some of the stuff is annoying because you can't use some of the stuff without being in an "ice region". But for something like Icewall, it works great.
The thing that annoyed me with Frostburn, and I'm sure they'll do it with the other environmental/elemental books, is the feat that deals cold damage that is SSSSOOOOOOOO cold, it hurts creatures immune to cold. I mean, my wizard can't cast a charm person spell on a skeleton, even though he is SSSOOO charming, maybe I'll just make a feat for it....
But other than that, I like frostburn a lot.
And one question Jacen, you are in KoD and your cleric already can cast Resurrection??
One could say that it is my fav *generic* line. Check here:
http://www.atlas-games.com/penumbra/index.php