I still need to list which spell work, don't work, or which are unknown.
Also do I follow Håvard's suggestion of not having spell casters as favoured classes instead of the minimum ability score of 16, bearing in mind that ability scores in 3.5 tend to be higher than they are in BD&D.
Gary
Antalian
Cultural Melee Weapons: Battleaxe, Handaxe, Dagger, Longsword, Greataxe, Greatsword, Warhammer, Longspear, Spear, Shortspear
Cultural Missile Weapons: Light Hammer, Javelin, Long Bow, Short Bow, Sling
Cultural Armor: Padded, Leather, Studded Leather, Chain Shirt, Hide, Scale, Chainmail, Shields
Special Compensation: Climb is always a class skill, +2 racial bonus to climb.
Azcan
Cultural Melee Weapons: Dagger, Shortsword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Quarterstaff, Longspear, Spear, Shortspear
Cultural Missile Weapons: Short Bow, Sling, Blowgun, Bolas, Javelin
Cultural Armor: Padded, Leather, Shields
Special Compensation: Improved Toughness feat
Beastmen
Favoured Class: Barbarian, +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Dex, 2 pts Natural Armour, Low-light vision 60 feet.
Cultural Melee Weapons: Battleaxe, Handaxe, Shortsword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Greataxe, Greatclub, Warhammer, Light Hammer, Spear, Shortspear
Cultural Missile Weapons: Sling, Javelin, Net, Harpoon
Cultural Armor: Padded, Leather, Shields
Special Compensation: None
Blacklore Elves
No arms or armour except
Torch Range Increment 10 feet, max range 30 feet, damage 1d8 fire, critical 19-20/x2
Not subject to cultural bias.
Brute-men
Favoured Class: Barbarian, -2 Int, +2 Con
Cultural Melee Weapons: Handaxe, Dagger, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Greatclub, Sap, Light Hammer, Quarterstaff, Spear, Shortspear
Cultural Missile Weapons: Short Bow, Sling, Javelin
Cultural Armor: Padded, Leather
Racial Abilities: Detect naturally disguised secret doors, Quick Reconnoiter feat (from Complete Adventurer).
Gentle Folk
Cultural Weapons: Dagger, Quarterstaff (although not used as weapons)
Not subject to cultural bias.
+4 Racial bonus to an 'artistic' craft such as tree pruning, wood whittling.
Elves of Icevale
Favoured Class: Female - ranger, Male - fighter
Cultural Melee Weapons: Battleaxe, Handaxe, Shortsword, Longsword, Greatsword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Quarterstaff, Spear, Shortspear
Cultural Missile Weapons: Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Long Bow, Short Bow, Sling, Javelin
Cultural Armor: Padded, Leather, Studded Leather, Chain Shirt, Hide, Scale, Chainmail, Splint, Banded, Shields
Hutaakan
Racial stats as by Andrew Theisen, although not sure about the 'Gnoll Blood' trait
Cultural Melee Weapons: Dagger, Shortsword, Longsword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Warhammer, Light Hammer, Quarterstaff, Whip
Cultural Missile Weapons: Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Sling
Cultural Armor: Padded, Leather, Studded Leather, Chain Shirt, Hide, Scale, Chainmail, Splint, Banded, Shields
Riding Lizards may be equipped with Leather Barding.
Jennites
Cultural Melee Weapons: Battleaxe, Handaxe, Dagger, Shortsword, Longsword, Bastard Sword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Warhammer, Light Hammer, Spear, Shortspear, Whip, Lance
Cultural Missile Weapons: Composite Short Bow, Javelin, Net
Cultural Armor: Padded, Leather, Studded Leather, Chain Shirt, Hide, Scale, Chainmail, Splint, Shields
Special Compensation: +2 racial bonus to Ride, Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery feats
Kogolor Dwarves
Cultural Melee Weapons: Battleaxe, Dwarven Waraxe, Greataxe, Dagger, Shortsword, Longsword, Bastard Sword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Sap, Quarterstaff, Halberd, Longspear, Poleaxe, Spear, Shortspear
Cultural Missile Weapons: Short Bow, Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Sling
Cultural Armor: Padded, Leather, Studded Leather, Chain Shirt, Hide, Scale, Chainmail, Breastplate, Splint, Banded, Shields
Krugel Orcs
+4 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Wis
No longer suffer from Light Sensitivity
No longer have Darkvision
Cultural Melee Weapons: Dagger, Shortsword, Longsword, Bastard Sword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Warhammer, Spear, Shortspear, Lance, Whip
Cultural Missile Weapons: Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Long Bow, Short Bow, Sling
Cultural Armor: Padded, Leather, Studded Leather, Chain Shirt, Hide, Scale, Chainmail, Splint, Banded, Shields
Also Leather barding available for mounts.
Kubitts
Cultural Melee Weapons: Battleaxe, Handaxe, Dagger, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Warhammer, Shortsword, Longsword, Greatsword, Spear, Longspear, Poleaxe
Cultural Missile Weapons: Short Bow, Long Bow, Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Sling
Cultural Armour: Padded, Leather, Studded Leather, Chain Shirt, Hide, Scale, Chainmail, Banded, Shields
Special Compensation: Stealthy feat
Malpheggi Lizard Men
Amphibious, Speed 20 feet, Swim 30 feet, Natural Armour +4
Cultural Melee Weapons: Battleaxe, Handaxe, Dagger, Shortsword, Longsword, Bastard Sword, Warhammer, Light Hammer, Spear, Shortspear
Cultural Missile Weapons: Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Net, Javelin, Trident
Cultural Armour: Shields only? (Possibly Leather and Hide armour types, Padded would get waterlogged, metal armour would rust.)
Merry Pirates
Cultural Melee Weapons: Battleaxe, Handaxe, Shortsword, Longsword, Greatsword, Bastard Sword, Cutlass, Rapier, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Sap, Warhammer, Quarterstaff, Longspear, Spear, Shortspear, whip
Cultural Missile Weapons: Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Long Bow, Short Bow, Sling, Net, Javelin, Trident
Cultural Armour: Any upto and including Full Plate, Shields
Only allowed to wear upto studded leather aboard ship.
Milenians
Cultural Melee Weapons: Battleaxe, Dagger, Shortsword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Quarterstaff, Pike, Longspear, Spear, Shortspear
Cultural Missile Weapons: Long Bow, Short Bow, Sling, Javelin, Trident, Net
Cultural Armour: Padded, Leather, Stuuded Leather, Hardened Leather (as breastplate), Shields
Special Compensation: Weapon Focus (Spears)
Nithians
Cultural Melee Weapons: Battleaxe, Handaxe, Quarterstaff, assorted polearms, Longspear, Spear, Shortspear, Kopesh
Cultural Missile Weapons: Long Bow, Short Bow, Sling, Javelin
Cultural Armour: Padded, Leather, Studded Leather, Chain Shirt, Hide, Scale, Chainmail, Banded, Shields
Oltecs
Cultural Melee Weapons: Handaxe, Dagger, Shortsword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Warhammer, Light Hammer, Quarterstaff, Spear, Shortspear
Cultural Missile Weapons: Javelin, Long Bow, Short Bow, Sling, Blowgun, Bolas
Cultural Armour: Padded, Leather, Scale, Hide, Shields
Special Compensations: +1 dodge bonus to AC, +2 racial bonus to Move Silently, Hide, and Climb.
Schattenalfen
Racial stats as by Håvard Faanes.
Cultural Melee Weapons: Handaxe, Dagger, Shortsword, Longsword, Greatsword, Bastard Sword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Quarterstaff, any polearm, Spear, Longspear, Shortspear, Elven Lightblade, Elven Thinblade, Lance, Whip
Cultural Missile Weapons: Javelin, Net, Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Long Bow, Short Bow, Sling
Cultural Armour: Any upto and including Full Plate (prefer to wear Chainmail), Shields
Tanagoro
Cultural Melee Weapons: Dagger, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Quarterstaff, Longspear, Spear, Shortspear
Cultural Missile Weapons: Long Bow, Sort Bow, Javelin, Sling
Cultural Armour: Shield only
Special Compensations: Fast Movement (40 foot), Improved Toughness
Traldar
Cultural Melee Weapons: Battleaxe, Dagger, Shortsword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Warhammer, Quarterstaff, all polearms, Longspear, Spear, Shortspear, Lance
Cultural Missile Weapons: Javelin, Trident, Net, Long Bow, Short Sword, Sling
Cultural Armour: Any upto Plate mail, Shields
Neathar
Cultural Melee Weapon: Handaxe, Dagger, Shortsword, Mace (Light), Mace (Heavy), Club, Warhammer, Light Hammer, Quarterstaff, Spear, Shortspear, Lance (hiakrai tribe only)
Cultural Missile Weapon: Long Bow, Short Bow, Sling, Blowgun, Bolas, Javelin, Trident, Net
Cultural Armour: Shields only
Special Compensations: +2 dodge bonus to AC, Weapon Focus (primary tribal weapon or spear for clerics and rogues, staff for wizards.)
Balatai Primary Tribal Weapon: Long Bow
Hiaktai Primary Tribal Weapon: Lance
Makai Primary Tribal Weapon: Trident
Toralai Primary Tribal Weapon: Spear
Valgrai Primary Tribal Weapon: Shortsword
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=107897
Someone on the ENWorld boards was doing conversions of Hollow World magic a few months ago.
Thanks for reminding me, completely forgot about that thread, I'm the Mortis on the thread :D
Gary
Don't know if you have it or not, but the Frostburn supplement might give you some really good ideas for Antalian (and cold) based campaigns. Very good supplement.
Brute-men
I did a writeup of a Brute-Man race in 3.5 terms based on the Hollow World sourcebook a while back. You can find the thread here somewhere... better yet, just check the Vaults: http://www.mystaranet.jamm.com/vaults/html/denbrute.html
Also, the Neanderthal in Frostburn is also a really good option. In some ways similar to what I did (which was just a straightforward conversion) but with some better options/characteristics.
I won't plug that book any more, I swear.
Gentle Folk
If you own the Book of Exalted Deeds, I'd suggest considering allowing Gentle Folk characters to take the Sacred Vow feats, without the prerequisite of serving a deity/Immortal. Might help make them more playable and interesting.
Elves of Icevale
Icevale elves, hmm. Must... refrain... from... mentioning... book!
Hutaakan
Racial stats as by Andrew Theisen, although not sure about the 'Gnoll Blood' trait
I wasn't too sure about that myself, but ultimately went with it mainly for the reason that I didn't really like having too many "sub" races of humanoid (humanoid human, humanoid goblin, humanoid elf, etc.)- didn't want to add a "humanoid hutaaka". When you have creatures that are so similar (hutaaka, gnolls, lupins) it seems to me there should be a broader category to fit them all into- like the goblin category covers goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears.
Kogolor Dwarves
I'd also suggest changing the "traditional" dwarven bonuses to stone/metal crafts to something else (like brewing, etc.) and perhaps giving them a bonus to Perform (yodelling).
Malpheggi Lizard Men
Cultural Armour: Shields only? (Possibly Leather and Hide armour types, Padded would get waterlogged, metal armour would rust.)
I could see leather, hide, and also scale armor (made from "real" scales of dinosaurs), though they'd probably be rare- only in "heavy" infantry.
The conversions all look good and balanced.
I have moved away from preventing spellcasters as favored classes though, and moved back to the requirement of having 16+ in the relevant ability score. My main reason for doing this is because I decided that all HW races, including humans should be detailed as demihumans.
This is linked to the Spell of Preservation, which I was working on making into a "HW package" for all the races of the HW. The SoP has limited the versatility of humans, but compensate this by strengthening their culture.
Basically, I have decided to give out more bonuses than penalties:
Each race receives a +1 bonus with his/her cultural weapons. In addition, inferior technology penalties do not apply when both sides are fighting with their cultural weapons in the HW. This bonus is lost if the character begins using equipment outside his own culture.
In addition, the race gains a bonus to a skill or similar linked to its culture, also lost by those who "betray" their culture.
Those who do betray their culture suffer a -2 penalty to reactions from their own. (Maybe this could be extended to all HW cultures, as forreigners might also feel threatened by this).
This is from memory though, I cant access those files right now
Håvard
Funny seeing this thread appear just as I was posting today's map... ;)
... or conspiracy?
... or conspiracy?
:heehee
or am I laughing just to cover my paranoia... I gotta go... they're watching...
Frostburn - Haven't got that one - couldn't justify the cost at the time - but after the hard sell... :D
Brutemen - Possibly use either - though I do like the Quick Reconnoiter feat
Gentle Folk - Don't own the BoED but do have access to one - Sacred Vow feats could add certain something.
Hutaakan - 'Gnoll Blood' - In hindsight I agree, it's just a shame WotC didn't use Humanoid, Canine. I've seen a similar discussion regarding Rakasta and other cat based humanoids.
Kogolor Dwarves - I don't have a problem with changing the dwarven crafts to brewing or similar, and a bonus to Perform (yodelling) could be fun - Dwarven bard anyone
Malpheggi Lizard Men - Yes, there could be scale armour made from dinosaur scales, and maybe even crude breastplates made from the same source.
16+ Ability scores for spellcasters - I agree with keeping this requirement - As I said earlier a higher stat is easier in 3.5 (either with a 'points buy' system or rolling the best of 4d6 in any order - instead of 3d6 in the order they're rolled).
Will have a look at the spell lists on ENworld over the weekend. Also Unless a spell from a Complete series book springs out as being 'Hollow World' I think we can safely say that they are at least unknown in Hollow World to keep the list of spells manageable. And then there's that Frostburn book... bound to be more spells in that one. :D
I don't know about +1 in ALL cultural weapons (but then again I can be a bit mean
, maybe +1 in two weapons (1 melee and 1 ranged).I don't have a problem with ignoring technological differences - assuming that the character is following cultural bias.
A bonus to a cultural skill is appealing, but what type of bonus? Racial?, Circumstance? (Circumstance being while following cultural bias, or simiply an un-named bonus?
Gary
Gary
Someone on the ENWorld boards was doing conversions of Hollow World magic a few months ago. Here's a link to the thread- it might give you some ideas:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=107897
I had a look at the thread again, and decided rather than writing long lists of spells just to follow the rules that he came up with. They are:-
By Herzog on Enworld Boards
Rule 1: All Enchantment(Compulsion)[Mind-Affecting], NOT harmless spells do not function in the Hollow World.
Rule 2: All Enchantment(Charm)[Mind-Affecting] spells do not function in the Hollow World.
Rule 3: All spells that somehow take control over a creature (typically having the word 'control' or 'command' in the spell name or description) do not function in the Hollow World.
Rule 4: All Divination spells Requiring communication with a being on another plane do not function in the Hollow World.
Rule 5: All Divination[Mind-Affecting] spells do not function in the Hollow World. Note: I only found one(Detect Thoughts).
Rule 6: All spells that function by inserting a 'soul' into a body do not function in the Hollow World. Note that this would include 'Magic Jar' in a rather unpleasant way: you can leave your body to posses the 'jar', but cannot return to your body.( A slight alteration from the original rules, but logical nonetheless I think.)
Rule 7: All spells that have the (Teleport) descriptor and all spells that function through planar travel (including to the ethereal plane) do not function in the Hollow World.
Rule 8: All spells that have the (Summoning) descriptor do not function in the Hollow World.
Things change post WOTI, and the following spells now work.
Spells of Holding (eg, hold person)
Spells of charming and commanding (eg, charm person, quest, geas)
Spells of Immortality (eg, raise dead, resurrection, reincarnation)
Gary
nice to see someone using my list of rules...
It definately triggered my interest enough to start working on the conversions again.
Since this thread is mainly about the HW cultures and races, and the other one about spells, I'll post some of my ideas on the cultures here, while continueing about spells in the enworld thread.
I took a quick glimpse at the conversions posted in this thread, and they seem alright. I haven't had time to compare them with my own notes, but the following came up immediately:
1. I remember giving some cultures weapon focus or even weapon specialization based on bonusses they got in the HW books.
I notice you do that too, but also give out 'clean' bonusses now and then.
I prefer to stay with the weapon focus, since this gives the culture in question a headstart, without being 'always better' with the weapon. (other characters can get the weapon focus too, if they want to spend feats on them)
2. I remember giving some cultures AC bonusses. You do that too, but I notice you gave away some 'clean' AC bonusses. I know I gave the Neathar a +2 bonus, but I also remember making it a 'dodge' bonus.
Whenever giving out bonusses to AC, specify the type. We know it matters...
3. Another extra I added (although the details are a bit vague to me at the time, it being half a year ago) is that I gave the more nature aligned cultures (naethar, traldar ) a favored class in either ranger or druid (depending on the culture, of course). This especially makes sense for subcultures (tribes) of which the orginal books mention strong alliances with wolf-packs etc.
One last thing:
With the conversion in progress, I have only relied on the core rules. I see verious different sources mentioned here.
Although I certainly agree we shouldn't re-invent the wheel by creating new feats or racial treats that are an almost exact duplicate of ones available elsewhere, I also think people should be able to use any conversion of older versions without having to buy all the 3.5 edition available books....
Herzog.
Glad to have you aboard.
1. I remember giving some cultures weapon focus or even weapon specialization based on bonusses they got in the HW books.
I notice you do that too, but also give out 'clean' bonusses now and then.
I prefer to stay with the weapon focus, since this gives the culture in question a headstart, without being 'always better' with the weapon. (other characters can get the weapon focus too, if they want to spend feats on them)
Where've I given a 'clean' bonus to attack or damage.2. I remember giving some cultures AC bonusses. You do that too, but I notice you gave away some 'clean' AC bonusses. I know I gave the Neathar a +2 bonus, but I also remember making it a 'dodge' bonus.
Whenever giving out bonusses to AC, specify the type. We know it matters...
Yeah they were supposed to have been 'dodge' bonuses. Will change them immediately.
3. ...I gave the more nature aligned cultures (naethar, traldar ) a favored class in either ranger or druid ...
Favored classes were something I hadn't got round to doing for most races, although I would probably give the majority of nature inclined races the Ranger class as their favored class. I tend to think of druids as being rather scare no matter the culture, so don't really want to penalize most of the race that aren't druids.
I do agree with you about what sources to use for a conversion. At the moment I'm posting what I'm thinking of doing for my group (where I'm fortunate enough to own or at least have access to all the books listed). I will, time permitting, give alternates from the core rule books were that is necessary.
If you get time to develop your ideas, I for one and no doubt the rest of this board would like to see them.
Regards,
Gary
Hi Herzog,
Favored classes were something I hadn't got round to doing for most races, although I would probably give the majority of nature inclined races the Ranger class as their favored class. I tend to think of druids as being rather scare no matter the culture, so don't really want to penalize most of the race that aren't druids.
I agree with the scarcity of druids being a deciding factor in not making them a favored class. I do however have a problem with making ranger anybody's favored class. The ranger is balanced to be a spellcasting class (although a weak one) and Hollow World has significant prohibitions on spellcasting. Most ranger characters will not have the requisite ability score in Wisdom to be able to cast spells at all in Hollow World, so you are penalizing a charcter who is taking levels in their favored class. I would rather use barbarian, fighter or rogue as favored classes (maybe those races have knowledge (nature) as a class skill too)- none of them preclude a close relationship with nature, and your not nullifying an aspect of the character class.
I agree with the scarcity of druids being a deciding factor in not making them a favored race. I do however have a problem with making ranger anybody's favored class. The ranger is balanced to be a spellcasting class (although a weak one) and Hollow World has significant prohibitions on spellcasting. Most ranger characters will not have the requisite ability score in Wisdom to be able to cast spells at all in Hollow World, so you are penalizing a charcter who is taking levels in their favored class. I would rather use barbarian, fighter or rogue as favored classes (add maybe those races have knowledge (nature) as a class skill)- none of them preclude a close relationship with nature, and your not nullifying an aspect of the character class.
Unless, of course, you use the alternate non-spellcasting ranger (sort of like the forester from BD&D) from - IIRC -Unearthed Arcana. Of course when you need a 16 in a stat and it's not your main stat you're going to have problems.
Regards,
Gary
I have started giving the Hollow World races and cultures some thought, and here is my initial list of ideas.
NB: I still need to evaluate the results of the cultural bias. I will post that later.
Overall:
1. All hollow world cultures are treated as racial templates, with the following exception to the rule:
-Humans keep the general rule for humans that they can choose whatever favored class they like.
Other exceptions are noted below.
2. Characters should examine the OD&D rules for cultural weapons and armor.
3. Elf cultures get normal Elf racial modifiers, except where noted differently.
4. Some cultures have required skills. if the original rules require characters to take a skill, characters will be required to put one fourth of their skillpoints in that skill. If more then one skill is required, one fourth of their skillpoints must be devided over those skills. As a compensation, they will recieve a +2 on that skill if it is a single skill, or a +1 per skill if more than one skill is required.
(NB: I will list required skills later)
The cultures:
1. Antalians.
Because antalians are fearfull of non-clerical magic use, they may not select an arcane class as favored class.
+2 to climb skill. climb skill always a class skill.
effects of cultural bias:
bonus to climb skill disappears. climb skill is no longer automatically treated as a class skill. may still not select arcane class as favored class. feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
2. Azcan
Toughness feat at first level, 1, 3, 6 etc.. (imitates +1hp/lvl from original rules)
(note: i don't want to use improved toughness, because it is not in the core rules)
effects of cultural bias:
no longer gains toughness feat. existing toughness feats remain in effect.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
3. Beastmen
Favoured Class: Barbarian,
+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Dex,
2 pts Natural Armour,
Low-light vision 60 feet.
(copied from Gazza555)
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
4. Blacklore elves.
This one is giving me headaches. I tend to give them restrictions such as: no favored class (second class gives immediate xp penalty), starts at first level without class benefits, etc.
Anyone have any ideas?
NB: not hindered by cultural bias rules.
Edit:
After some thinking, I came up with this one:
Blacklore elves start out as Commoners (see DM guide).
Commoners have no weapon or armor feats, and can use one (simple) weapon. In case of the blacklore elves, this is the torchweapon.
Whenever they want, blacklore elves may take up an adventuring career, immediately gaining all the weapon and armor feats that come with it.
5.Brute-Men
Favored Class: Barbarian
-2 Int, +2 Con
+2 Racial bonus on Listen, Search and Spot checks. A Brute-man who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it, but ONLY when that door is conceiled as a natural object. (slightly modified from elf racial traits)
Improved Initiative.
Uncanny dodge. (even when not taking barbarian class)
Illiteracy.(even when not taking barbarian class)
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
6. Gentle Folk
Same as Blacklore elves, but with different reason.
Ideas, anyone?
Edit:
As with the blacklore elves, with some changes:
Gentle Folk start out as Commoners (see DM guide).
Commoners have no weapon or armor feats, and can use one (simple) weapon. In case of the Gentle Folk, this is the knife.
Different from the blacklore elves, the Gentle Folk are true pascifists.
Therefore, different from the original rules, they suffer from the cultural bias in the following way:
When the temptation of abandoning the pascifistic lifestyle becomes to great, Gentle Folk may take up an adventuring career.
However, they do not automatically gain all weapon and armor feats that come with the chosen class. Instead, they may select a specific armor and weapon from the feats list that comes with the class each level they gain. They do not have to spend additional feats.
7. Elves of Icevale
Favoured Class: Female - ranger, Male - fighter
(copied from Gazza555)
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
8. Hutaakans
-2 Str, +2 Wis
base speed 20
+1 natural armor
+2 on move silently and hide checks
Favoured Class: Cleric.
Hutaakans must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on knowledge(religion)
They get a +2 on knowledge(religion) checks, and an additional +2 if the information is about Pflarr.
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
9. Jennites
Favoured Class: any but rogue.
+2 racial bonus to Ride, Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery feats.
results of cultural bias:
Lose Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery feats.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
10. Kogolor Dwarves
As dwarf, with the following changes:
+2 stonecunning becomes +2 brewing, +2 perform (yodelling)
kogolor dwarves must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on perform (yodelling) and climb. they get a +1 on their climb check.
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
11. Krugel Orcs
+4 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Wis
No longer suffer from Light Sensitivity
No longer have Darkvision
(copied from Gazza555)
Krugel orcs must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on riding. they get a +2 on riding checks.
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
12. Kubitts.
Favoured class: any.
+2 Dex, -4 Str.
Tiny (18")
Base speed 30
+2 on move silently and hide
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
13. Malpheggi Lizard men
Amphibious,
Speed 20 feet, Swim 30 feet,
Natural Armour +4
(from Gazza555)
Str +2, Dex -2
Malpheggi Lizard men must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on Survival. They get a +2 on survival checks.
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
14. Merry pirates
Treat as original race having lost special abilities due to cultural bias.
(NB: if the cultural bias contains restrictions spanning several levels, it is assumed this has already happened)
Merry pirates must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on Profession(Sailor). They get a +2 on Profession(Sailor) checks.
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
15. Milenians
Weapon Focus and Weapons Specialization (Spears)
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
weapon focus and weapon specialization (spears) are lost.
16. Nithians
Favored Class: men: any
women: any but fighter or thief.
nithian women may not become fighters or thieves without undergoing the cultural bias.
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
17. Oltecs
Favoured Class: any but thieves.
+1 Dodge bonus.
+2 to move silently, climb and hide.
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
Dodge bonus is lost.
18. Schattenalfen
As elf, with the following exceptions:
-Darkvision instead of Low-Light vision
-Light sensitivity
-Stonecunning, appraise and craft bonusses (as dwarf) instead of search, spot and listen bonusses.
Schattenalven must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on Knowledge(Dungeoneering). They get a +2 on skillchecks.
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
19, Tanagoro
Base move 40.
Toughness feat at level 1,3,5,7,9 etc. (this may seem big, but remember they have no armor!)
results of cultural bias:
Base move reduced to 30
No additional Toughness feats. (existing remain in effect)
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
20. Traldar
Nothing special
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
21. Neathar
+2 dodge bonus to AC, Weapon Focus (primary tribal weapon or spear for clerics and rogues, staff for wizards.)
(from Gazza555)
results of cultural bias:
Lose dodge bonus and weapon focus.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor have to be bought.
Ok, that's it for now.
I will edit this post later to add required skills.
Herzog
hi all!
I have started giving the Hollow World races and cultures some thought, and here is my initial list of ideas.
NB: I still need to evaluate the results of the cultural bias. I will post that later.
Cultural bias? Don't need it. Chuck the dinosaur out the window. :D
The reason cultural bias was introduced in the original setting, after all, is because 0E D&D had no solid rules for weapon or (especially) armor proficiency - if you were a Fighter, you knew how to use two-handed swords and wear plate mail, even if your character's background was as a neolithic savage who'd never even heard of steel. Cultural bias was a rules attempt to stop munchkins from creating HW characters, grabbing neato Special Compensations, and immediately borrowing their OW allies' spare equipment and waltzing around with the best of both worlds.
In 3E, this problem doesn't exist. A Neathar fighter simply doesn't have proficiency feats in Greataxe or Heavy Armor, even if that'd normally be part of the class package. He gets Special Compensations instead. A Neathar silly enough to try strapping into a suit of full plate five minutes after starting his adventuring career is going to suffer loads of nonproficiency penalties; if the character is determined to become an Outer World clone, that's half a dozen feats spent on the proper proficiencies that could have been used for other purposes.
There's just no real reason to use an explicit cultural bias rule in a 3E setting. Not when rules for proficiency are already in place, effective, functional, and better implement what the designers were originally looking for.
Cultural bias? Don't need it. Chuck the dinosaur out the window. :D
...
There's just no real reason to use an explicit cultural bias rule in a 3E setting. Not when rules for proficiency are already in place, effective, functional, and better implement what the designers were originally looking for.
I would disagree with that. Cultural bias was not in place simply to prevent a Neathar warrior from using plate and a two-handed sword. It is a mechanism through the Spell of Preservation to preserve the culture of the group. It is not that a Neathar couldn't use plate, it is he wouldn't want to use plate. He is given advantages to compensate for this. By violating this bias, he should lose those cultural advantages. You suggestion does not penalize a Hollow World character for this violation (you may argue that burning feats is a punishment, but I don't view it that way). If you eliminate the cultural bias, you have to eliminate the cultural advantages, and doing that would make Hollow World far less interesting.
I always found the cultural bias rule a little heavy-handed. I think that perhaps cultural advantages/disadvantages should be an option left up to the player at character creation. The cultural advantages/disadvantages work almost like the Flaw rules from Unearthed Arcana. "Give up that, and gain this instead."
I think it's a great approach to handling the cultural bias without overly penalizing players who are not interested in playing a "typical" Neathar/Nithian/Azcan/etc. I mean, the original rules said that not only do you lose your cultural advantages, you also have to take a 50% XP hit for, what was it, three levels? That's huge, and doesn't sound fun at all.
I need to dig out my own HW conversion files, I know they are *somewhere* on my Hard Disk. What I did with cultural bias for 3E was to divide it into two things: Sense of Superiority and Cultural Bias.
Sense of Superiority: The SoP gives the denizens of the HW a great confidence in their own culture and traditions. In game terms this usually results in some bonus or other when using the traditional weapons and armor of ones own culture. If a character (typically a PC) decides to abandon the traditional ways, he will lose these bonuses. I'd suggest a +1 bonus to attack or AC when using equipment associated with ones native culture. Penalties for inferior material (Bronze, wood, bone) are ignored.
Cultural Bias: Although the denizens of the HW are not neccesarily negative towards forreigners, they certainly dont like it when their own people abandon their ways. A character who has started behaving too much like a forreigner (read: use weapons and armor not on his cultural list) suffers a -2 penalty to all social skills (Diplomacy, intimidate etc) when dealing with people of his native culture.
Thoughts?
Håvard
-XP penalty conversion.
In OD&D, as said by katana_one, you got a huge XP penalty for several levels when abandoning your cultural restrictions.
I think this is largely covered by refusing HW characters Weapon and Armor proficiencies for those weapons and armors that are not part of their culture.
They must then later spend feats to be able to use those weapons and armor.
Example: cultural weapons include some, but not all simple weapons.
character is a fighter.
character must spend an additional simple weapons feat to be able to use simple weapons not part of his cultural weapons list.
-Losing cultural compensations
I plan to go over my own list later today, and add to each entry which compensations are lost when abandoning their own culture.
Herzog
Also entered my current ideas for blacklore and gentle folk elves.
Also added required skills to some cultures.
Herzog
I like cultural bias but at the same time I can see eldersphinx's point too. Perhaps it should be turned into a DM's tool rather than a player restriction.
Thoughts? Discussions? Curses on the post's author?
--Ray.
Thats why I previously suggested the mechanic where:
Sense of Superiority: The SoP gives the denizens of the HW a great confidence in their own culture and traditions. In game terms this usually results in some bonus or other when using the traditional weapons and armor of ones own culture. If a character (typically a PC) decides to abandon the traditional ways, he will lose these bonuses. I'd suggest a +1 bonus to attack or AC when using equipment associated with ones native culture. Penalties for inferior material (Bronze, wood, bone) are ignored.
Cultural Bias: Although the denizens of the HW are not neccesarily negative towards forreigners, they certainly dont like it when their own people abandon their ways. A character who has started behaving too much like a forreigner (read: use weapons and armor not on his cultural list) suffers a -2 penalty to all social skills (Diplomacy, intimidate etc) when dealing with people of his native culture.
The benefit of this system, especially the last part is that it puts an emphasis in game mechanical terms on the fact that Hollow Worlders are very sceptical of people who abandon their traditional ways.
I don't like the idea of XP penalties. I didn't like them in OE either, but especially for 3E, it seems very inapriopriate. Another way of handling it would be to make a feat:
Culturally independent
Prerequisites: Must be a Hollow World native, must have had contact with forreign cultures, wis 13+
Benefits: Allows the character to use all equipment normally allowed by his class, without any penalties for his race or culture, that would normally exist for natives of the Hollow world.
Normal: The character may still use such equipment, but suffers a -4 penalty to attack rolls when using it.
Thoughts?
Håvard
Almost all Hollow World cultures get extra's. Be it higher AC, bonus to hit or extra speed, they get something outer world characters do not.
For game balance, this is countered by the fact that they have a limited choice in weapons and armor.
Whenever a HW character starts to use equipment outside of his culture, the game balance is disturbed.
Cultural bias is used to get the character balanced again.
I realise now that for some cultures, I might have given cultural bias effects that are not balanced against the compensations they get to keep. I will look into that later.
Using negative modifiers in social skill roles seems a bit limited in my opinion.
Aside from that, this is typically something I would like to see roleplayed instead of trying to catch it in a game rule.
Herzog
Overall:
Characters should examine the OD&D rules for cultural weapons and armor.
The cultures:
1. Antalians.
Because antalians are fearfull of non-clerical magic use, they may not select an arcane class as favored class.
+2 to climb skill. climb skill always a class skill.
effects of cultural bias:
bonus to climb skill disappears. climb skill is no longer automatically treated as a class skill. may still not select arcane class as favored class.
additional balancing rules:
Positive effect after abandoning culture is very limited.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
2. Azcan
Toughness feat at level, 1, 3, 6 etc.. (imitates +1hp/lvl from original rules)
effects of cultural bias:
no longer gains toughness feat. existing toughness feats remain in effect.
Positive effect after abandoning culture is medium.
feats for non-cultural weapons are gained at next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
feats for non-cultural armor have to be bought.
3. Beastmen
Favoured Class: Barbarian,
+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Dex,
2 pts Natural Armour,
Low-light vision 60 feet.
(copied from Gazza555)
results of cultural bias:
Beastmen are balanced even without the weapons and armor restrictions.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
4. Blacklore elves.
Blacklore elves start out as Commoners (see DM guide).
Commoners have no weapon or armor feats, and can use one (simple) weapon. In case of the blacklore elves, this is the torchweapon.
Whenever they want, blacklore elves may take up an adventuring career, immediately gaining all the weapon and armor feats that come with it.
(Note: they do NOT have to gain a level first! The current level immediately becomes the selected class level. Current Character level and experience points remain the same. )
5.Brute-Men
Favored Class: Barbarian
-2 Int, +2 Con
+2 Racial bonus on Listen, Search and Spot checks. A Brute-man who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it, but ONLY when that door is conceiled as a natural object. (slightly modified from elf racial traits)
Improved Initiative.
Uncanny dodge. (even when not taking barbarian class)
Illiteracy.(even when not taking barbarian class)
results of cultural bias:
Brute-men are balanced even without the weapons and armor restrictions.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken. However, brute-men have to spend a feat to lose illeteracy.
6. Gentle Folk
Gentle Folk start out as Commoners (see DM guide).
Commoners have no weapon or armor feats, and can use one (simple) weapon. In case of the Gentle Folk, this is the knife.
The Gentle Folk are true pascifists.
Therefore, different from the original rules, they suffer from the cultural bias in the following way:
When the temptation of abandoning the pascifistic lifestyle becomes to great, Gentle Folk may take up an adventuring career.
However, they do not automatically gain all weapon and armor feats that come with the chosen class. Instead, they may select a specific armor and weapon from the feats list that comes with the class each level they gain. They do not have to spend additional feats.
7. Elves of Icevale
Favoured Class: Female - ranger, Male - fighter
(copied from Gazza555)
results of cultural bias:
Icevale elves do not get any special bonusses.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
8. Hutaakans
-2 Str, +2 Wis
base speed 20
+1 natural armor
+2 on move silently and hide checks
Favoured Class: Cleric.
Hutaakans must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on knowledge(religion)
They get a +2 on knowledge(religion) checks, and an additional +2 if the information is about Pflarr.
results of cultural bias:
no longer required to spend skillpoints. +2 on knowledge(religion) disappears. +2 on checks related to Pflarr remains.
feats for non-cultural weapons are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
feats for non-cultural armor are gained at one type per level gained. no additional feats have to be spend.
9. Jennites
Favoured Class: any but rogue.
+2 racial bonus to Ride,
Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery feats.
results of cultural bias:
Lose Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery feats.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
10. Kogolor Dwarves
As dwarf, with the following changes:
+2 stonecunning becomes +2 brewing, +2 perform (yodelling)
kogolor dwarves must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on perform (yodelling) and climb. they get a +1 on their climb check.
results of cultural bias:
no longer required to spend skillpoints. bonus to climb check disappears.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
11. Krugel Orcs
+4 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Wis
No longer suffer from Light Sensitivity
No longer have Darkvision
(copied from Gazza555)
Krugel orcs must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on riding. they get a +2 on riding checks.
results of cultural bias:
no longer required to spend skillpoints. bonus to riding check disappears.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
12. Kubitts.
Favoured class: any.
+2 Dex, -4 Str.
Tiny (18")
Base speed 30
+2 on move silently and hide
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
13. Malpheggi Lizard men
Amphibious,
Speed 20 feet, Swim 30 feet,
Natural Armour +4
(from Gazza555)
Str +2, Dex -2
Malpheggi Lizard men must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on Survival. They get a +2 on survival checks.
results of cultural bias:
no longer required to spend skillpoints. bonus to survival check disappears.
feats for non-cultural weapons are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
Feats for non-cultural armor have to be bought.
14. Merry pirates
Treat as original race having lost special abilities due to cultural bias.
(NB: if the cultural bias contains restrictions spanning several levels, it is assumed this has already happened)
Merry pirates must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on Profession(Sailor). They get a +2 on Profession(Sailor) checks.
results of cultural bias:
no longer required to spend skillpoints. bonus to sailor check disappears.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
15. Milenians
Weapon Focus and Weapons Specialization (Spears)
results of cultural bias:
weapon focus and weapon specialization (spears) are lost.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
16. Nithians
Favored Class: men: any
women: any but fighter or thief.
nithian women may not become fighters or thieves without undergoing the cultural bias.
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
17. Oltecs
Favoured Class: any but thieves.
+1 Dodge bonus.
+2 to move silently, climb and hide.
results of cultural bias:
Dodge bonus is lost.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
18. Schattenalfen
As elf, with the following exceptions:
-Darkvision instead of Low-Light vision
-Light sensitivity
-Stonecunning, appraise and craft bonusses (as dwarf) instead of search, spot and listen bonusses.
Schattenalven must spend 1/4 of their skillpoints on Knowledge(Dungeoneering). They get a +2 on skillchecks.
results of cultural bias:
no longer required to spend skillpoints. bonus on knowledge(dungeneering) is lost.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
19, Tanagoro
Base move 40.
Toughness feat at level 1,3,5,7,9 etc. (this may seem big, but remember they have no armor!)
results of cultural bias:
Base move reduced to 30
No additional Toughness feats. (existing remain in effect)
feats for non-cultural weapons are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
feats for non-cultural armor have to be bought.
20. Traldar
Nothing special
results of cultural bias:
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
21. Neathar
+2 dodge bonus to AC, Weapon Focus (primary tribal weapon or spear for clerics and rogues, staff for wizards.)
(from Gazza555)
most naethar tribes have required skills. (see the original rulebook to find out which skills). if the original rules require characters to take a skill, characters will be required to put one fourth of their skillpoints in that skill. If more then one skill is required, one fourth of their skillpoints must be devided over those skills. As a compensation, they will recieve a +2 on that skill if it is a single skill, or a +1 per skill if more than one skill is required.
results of cultural bias:
Lose dodge bonus and weapon focus.
no longer have to spend skillpoints. bonusses to skills are lost.
feats for non-cultural weapons and armor are gained at the next level. Feats gained are for the class taken.
Ok, note that I have changed the buying feats rule to getting feats at next level for most of the cultures. This does still mean that HW characters will suffer non-proficient penalties untill they reach a new level.
Second, feats gained are for the class taken. If you have gained 4 levels as a HW fighter, undergo the cultural bias, and select mage when reaching a level afterwards, you will not gain the heavy armor proficiency until you have taken at least another level in a class that grants that feat!
I am very curious as to what you think of my conversions now...
Herzog
A couple of queries.
About the races that are required to spend 1/4 of their skill points on a specific skill. You do realise that this would take the ranks over the maximum allowed (= level + 3) for classes with high skill points are characters with a high Int. For example a 1st level Schattenalfen rogue with an Int of 13 would be getting 36 skill points of which he is required to spend 9 ranks on Knowledge (dungeoneering) while his maximum rank is 4 - what happens to the other 5 are they lost, may they be spent on other skills, or do you ignore the maximum rank cap and keep all 9? I realise that I've used a fairly extreme example but it's something to think about.
Instead of giving races Toughness (or in my case Improved Toughness) did you consider giving them a Con boost instead - I can't remember why I opted for the feat now. I curently thinking that upping the Con would be better as it gives a boost to Fort saves as well.
Regards,
Gary
first, thanx for the input.
One of the reasons I stopped putting effort in the conversion was a certain lack of feedback, which kept me drifting on my own, not a very constructive way of getting results.
As to your remarks:
You're absolutely right about the skillpoints.
My intention was as follows:
You should stick with the basic rules, of course. If you are restricted in spending points because of max ranks, the remaining skillpoints may be spent freely.
On the other hand, if you happen to have low int, and only 1 skillpoint to spend per level, you only have to spend 1 skillpoint per 4 levels. ( 1 at lvl 1, one at lvl 2, one at lvl 6, etc.)
As to the Toughness feat instead of Con boost:
Con boost also improves skills, duration of rage, and (indeed) Fort saves.
This is exactly why I chose the Toughness feat instead of Con boost.
It is more in line with the original rules, and Toughness stacks without braking basic rules.
Herzog
Glad to help.
Concerning skills again, I would also state that any compulsory skills always count as class skills.
One other point, for now, you should really give bonuses a 'type' (I've been guilty of giving out unnamed bonuses in the past though ;) ) be it racial, circumstance, etc.
Regards,
Gary
Ok, so modifications so far:
-Skillpoints that cannot be put into required skill due to max ranks may be spend on other skills.
-The rule of 1/4th of your skillpoints does not count per level, but for overall skillpoints. Therefore, if you have only 1 skillpoint to spend per level, you only have to spend 1 skillpoint per 4 levels.
-Required skills are treated as class skills until you undergo cultural bias.
On bonusses:
-Bonusses kept after cultural bias are treated as 'racial' bonusses. (Where human cultures are treated as races for this purpose)
-Bonusses lost after cultural bias are treated as 'curcomstance' bonusses. (Where the curcomstance in this case is the all-over cultural way of life)
I will give it one more week to allow other comments to be made, then post a new list including abovementioned changes.
Herzog.