Tracy Hickman and Raistlin answer - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Tracy Hickman and Raistlin answer

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Charles_Phipps
Mar 07, 2005 16:26:07 I was surfing the Amber and Ashes board and I found him talking about a proposal for the Appendix that may explain the question about Raistlin's abilities that has been bugging alot of fans for years.

Here it is

I proposed a paragraph on renegades for the Appendix that couldn't be
>included due to time and space constraints. The gist of it was that
there
>were three categories of renegades: Those who used focused magic from
the
>moons but didn't abide by the laws of the Conclave, those who used
ambient
>magic during the time when it was largely forgotten, and those who
somehow
>received focused magic from sources _other_ than the moons. Examples
of
>this
>might be Galan Dracos and the Thorn Knights, and I hypothesized that
>Fistandantilus and Raistlin had managed to learn enough about the magic
of
>Krynn and amass enough power that they were essentially
>'self-focusing'--they
>could take ambient creation energy and focus it _themselves_ to produce
the
>results of High Sorcery.
>
#2
talinthas
Mar 07, 2005 17:03:49 wow.
where exactly is this board? got a link for us?

that answer is very interesting...
#3
Dragonhelm
Mar 07, 2005 17:04:20 Interesting.

A renegade is simply any arcane magic-user who uses his magic outside of the Orders of High Sorcery.

I think that's a fairly basic definition.

I would amend that somewhat to be all ambient magic-users are renegades, whether it was when ambient magic was forgotten or not.

I'm not sure I would go with the self-focusing idea, though.

Of course, there should be some mysterious elements to magic as well.
#4
Charles_Phipps
Mar 07, 2005 17:08:44 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amberandashes/message/106 is the post itself.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amberandashes/ is the list.

I think self-focusing is a deus es machine largely. Self focusing explains basically when a mortal needs the power to challenge the gods or to do something so utterly off the wall that you can't think ANY god would support/ignore it.

Raistlin destroying the world, The Kingpriest (though this would only be speculation), and others are all examples of this. It basically just provides a reason why they would not lack magic when they're being nasty to the gods.
#5
ferratus
Mar 07, 2005 17:24:01 Well, that does make things very simple.

Category 1 Renegade: Renegade

The renegade wizard of high sorcery that has learned the secrets of the moon gods, and has broken faith with that organization. Belize and Liam(from the Defenders of Magic trilogy) fit this mold, as might a few other renegades we have seen.

Category 2 Renegade: Sorcerer

I've always felt that there should be some relaxing to the stance "no sorcerers before the 5th Age" rule to make the speed in which mortals picked up the magic in the 5th Age make any sense. One way of doing it is through having small areas of wild sorcery, where dragons, fey and other magical creatures make their lairs. Darken Wood for example, with its undead and fey, would be an example of a wild sorcery. Think of it as an pool of magic after the sea of magic dried up.

Category 3 Renegade: Uber-Mage

Certainly this makes perfect sense to me. You go beyond the rites and mysteries of the moons and access the magical power from the Astral, Ethereal, and Shadow planes directly. This could perhaps be the prerequisite to achieving epic levels as a Dragonlance Mage. In this category, the renegade becomes powerful enough to challenge the Gods. That's what I think Tracy Hickman means by "self-focusing".

Category 4 Renegade: Other Sources

This I would use to tie in the wizards who are using magical talismans and items, as well as those wizards who make pacts with dieties or demons for their power.
#6
Dragonhelm
Mar 07, 2005 17:36:55 I took a look at that post, and it should be noted that Tracy was replying to another post, by Matthew Martin it appears, at least according to this post:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amberandashes/message/102

Tracy's comments were preceded by (TRH).

Also note that this is a discussion from 2002, from when the list was dedicated to Dragons of a Vanished Moon. Tracy was not involved with A&A.

It is interesting to see and brings some things to light. I just want to make sure that credit is given where due.
#7
Matthew_L._Martin
Mar 07, 2005 17:42:09 Thanks for clearing that up, Trampas.

And 'self-focusing magic' is pretty much impossible without lifetimes of study and practice. As far as I'm concerned, Fistandantilus/Raistlin is the only one to ever manage it.

Matthew L. Martin
#8
Charles_Phipps
Mar 07, 2005 17:45:44 *blush*

I'm so embarrassed.

Oops.

sorry you two!
#9
silvanthalas
Mar 07, 2005 19:22:27
Also note that this is a discussion from 2002, from when the list was dedicated to Dragons of a Vanished Moon. Tracy was not involved with A&A.

I was gonna say, that particular group has been so dead for so long, that I finally unsubscribed from it.
#10
zombiegleemax
Mar 10, 2005 6:38:19 I like of the idea of mages like Raistlin gaining the ability to focus ambient magic on there own, but then how did he lose his powers after his stay in the abyss?
#11
frostdawn
Mar 10, 2005 8:53:08
I like of the idea of mages like Raistlin gaining the ability to focus ambient magic on there own, but then how did he lose his powers after his stay in the abyss?

The way I'd interpret it (not sure if it's the official view, but what the hey) is that magic users have sort of a magical connection, or tether to the source of their magic. Think of it sorta like an invisible phone cord, with the mage on one end, and the source of the magic on the other. If the mage gets shunted to another plane (the Abyss) it's sorta like the person with the phone just had the phone line severed, so they lost connection with the magic 'operator'. To make matters worse, since he's in the Abyss, Tak's home, she could effectively shut off all sources of magic going towards Raistlin, kinda like keeping him in an anti magic field indefinitely. She'd definitely have the impetus to do so, particularly after Raist attempted to kill her, so he could be (and rightly so) perceived as a threat.
#12
Sysane
Mar 10, 2005 9:11:56
The way I'd interpret it (not sure if it's the official view, but what the hey) is that magic users have sort of a magical connection, or tether to the source of their magic. Think of it sorta like an invisible phone cord, with the mage on one end, and the source of the magic on the other. If the mage gets shunted to another plane (the Abyss) it's sorta like the person with the phone just had the phone line severed, so they lost connection with the magic 'operator'. To make matters worse, since he's in the Abyss, Tak's home, she could effectively shut off all sources of magic going towards Raistlin, kinda like keeping him in an anti magic field indefinitely. She'd definitely have the impetus to do so, particularly after Raist attempted to kill her, so he could be (and rightly so) perceived as a threat.

Sounds similar to the Weave in FR.
#13
true_blue
Mar 10, 2005 12:06:41 eh... but he *did* cast spells in the Abyss. He took on legions and legions of Takhisis's loyal followers.
#14
frostdawn
Mar 10, 2005 14:18:30
eh... but he *did* cast spells in the Abyss. He took on legions and legions of Takhisis's loyal followers.

He might still have been 'self channeling' at that point. When he gave into Tak when faced with the horrors of the reality he was bound to create by killing her (thanks Caramon), it was probably about the time Tak stripped him of his access to magic. Or maybe he had burned through his prepared spells, and since he no longer had access to the sources of magic he drew from (not to mention spellbooks to refresh his daily reportoire of spells) he didn't have anything left at that point. Just guesses, though. :P
#15
zombiegleemax
Mar 15, 2005 16:47:11 Did he lose his powers or was he forbidden to practice magic? I thought he was forbidden. Someone read Dragons of Summer Flame again...
#16
Charles_Phipps
Mar 15, 2005 17:28:00 He lost his ability to do magic when he entered the mortal world. Takhasis curse on him.

My guess is that it was removed because he was the one who found Krynn

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Charles_Phipps Mar 07, 2005 16:26:07	I was surfing the Amber and Ashes board and I found him talking about a proposal for the Appendix that may explain the question about Raistlin's abilities that has been bugging alot of fans for years. Here it is I proposed a paragraph on renegades for the Appendix that couldn't be >included due to time and space constraints. The gist of it was that there >were three categories of renegades: Those who used focused magic from the >moons but didn't abide by the laws of the Conclave, those who used ambient >magic during the time when it was largely forgotten, and those who somehow >received focused magic from sources _other_ than the moons. Examples of >this >might be Galan Dracos and the Thorn Knights, and I hypothesized that >Fistandantilus and Raistlin had managed to learn enough about the magic of >Krynn and amass enough power that they were essentially >'self-focusing'--they >could take ambient creation energy and focus it _themselves_ to produce the >results of High Sorcery. >
#2 talinthas Mar 07, 2005 17:03:49	wow. where exactly is this board? got a link for us? that answer is very interesting...
#3 Dragonhelm Mar 07, 2005 17:04:20	Interesting. A renegade is simply any arcane magic-user who uses his magic outside of the Orders of High Sorcery. I think that's a fairly basic definition. I would amend that somewhat to be all ambient magic-users are renegades, whether it was when ambient magic was forgotten or not. I'm not sure I would go with the self-focusing idea, though. Of course, there should be some mysterious elements to magic as well.
#4 Charles_Phipps Mar 07, 2005 17:08:44	http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amberandashes/message/106 is the post itself. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amberandashes/ is the list. I think self-focusing is a deus es machine largely. Self focusing explains basically when a mortal needs the power to challenge the gods or to do something so utterly off the wall that you can't think ANY god would support/ignore it. Raistlin destroying the world, The Kingpriest (though this would only be speculation), and others are all examples of this. It basically just provides a reason why they would not lack magic when they're being nasty to the gods.
#5 ferratus Mar 07, 2005 17:24:01	Well, that does make things very simple. Category 1 Renegade: Renegade The renegade wizard of high sorcery that has learned the secrets of the moon gods, and has broken faith with that organization. Belize and Liam(from the Defenders of Magic trilogy) fit this mold, as might a few other renegades we have seen. Category 2 Renegade: Sorcerer I've always felt that there should be some relaxing to the stance "no sorcerers before the 5th Age" rule to make the speed in which mortals picked up the magic in the 5th Age make any sense. One way of doing it is through having small areas of wild sorcery, where dragons, fey and other magical creatures make their lairs. Darken Wood for example, with its undead and fey, would be an example of a wild sorcery. Think of it as an pool of magic after the sea of magic dried up. Category 3 Renegade: Uber-Mage Certainly this makes perfect sense to me. You go beyond the rites and mysteries of the moons and access the magical power from the Astral, Ethereal, and Shadow planes directly. This could perhaps be the prerequisite to achieving epic levels as a Dragonlance Mage. In this category, the renegade becomes powerful enough to challenge the Gods. That's what I think Tracy Hickman means by "self-focusing". Category 4 Renegade: Other Sources This I would use to tie in the wizards who are using magical talismans and items, as well as those wizards who make pacts with dieties or demons for their power.
#6 Dragonhelm Mar 07, 2005 17:36:55	I took a look at that post, and it should be noted that Tracy was replying to another post, by Matthew Martin it appears, at least according to this post: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amberandashes/message/102 Tracy's comments were preceded by (TRH). Also note that this is a discussion from 2002, from when the list was dedicated to Dragons of a Vanished Moon. Tracy was not involved with A&A. It is interesting to see and brings some things to light. I just want to make sure that credit is given where due.
#7 Matthew_L._Martin Mar 07, 2005 17:42:09	Thanks for clearing that up, Trampas. And 'self-focusing magic' is pretty much impossible without lifetimes of study and practice. As far as I'm concerned, Fistandantilus/Raistlin is the only one to ever manage it. Matthew L. Martin
#8 Charles_Phipps Mar 07, 2005 17:45:44	blush I'm so embarrassed. Oops. sorry you two!
#9 silvanthalas Mar 07, 2005 19:22:27	Also note that this is a discussion from 2002, from when the list was dedicated to Dragons of a Vanished Moon. Tracy was not involved with A&A. I was gonna say, that particular group has been so dead for so long, that I finally unsubscribed from it.
#10 zombiegleemax Mar 10, 2005 6:38:19	I like of the idea of mages like Raistlin gaining the ability to focus ambient magic on there own, but then how did he lose his powers after his stay in the abyss?
#11 frostdawn Mar 10, 2005 8:53:08	I like of the idea of mages like Raistlin gaining the ability to focus ambient magic on there own, but then how did he lose his powers after his stay in the abyss? The way I'd interpret it (not sure if it's the official view, but what the hey) is that magic users have sort of a magical connection, or tether to the source of their magic. Think of it sorta like an invisible phone cord, with the mage on one end, and the source of the magic on the other. If the mage gets shunted to another plane (the Abyss) it's sorta like the person with the phone just had the phone line severed, so they lost connection with the magic 'operator'. To make matters worse, since he's in the Abyss, Tak's home, she could effectively shut off all sources of magic going towards Raistlin, kinda like keeping him in an anti magic field indefinitely. She'd definitely have the impetus to do so, particularly after Raist attempted to kill her, so he could be (and rightly so) perceived as a threat.
#12 Sysane Mar 10, 2005 9:11:56	The way I'd interpret it (not sure if it's the official view, but what the hey) is that magic users have sort of a magical connection, or tether to the source of their magic. Think of it sorta like an invisible phone cord, with the mage on one end, and the source of the magic on the other. If the mage gets shunted to another plane (the Abyss) it's sorta like the person with the phone just had the phone line severed, so they lost connection with the magic 'operator'. To make matters worse, since he's in the Abyss, Tak's home, she could effectively shut off all sources of magic going towards Raistlin, kinda like keeping him in an anti magic field indefinitely. She'd definitely have the impetus to do so, particularly after Raist attempted to kill her, so he could be (and rightly so) perceived as a threat. Sounds similar to the Weave in FR.
#13 true_blue Mar 10, 2005 12:06:41	eh... but he did cast spells in the Abyss. He took on legions and legions of Takhisis's loyal followers.
#14 frostdawn Mar 10, 2005 14:18:30	eh... but he did cast spells in the Abyss. He took on legions and legions of Takhisis's loyal followers. He might still have been 'self channeling' at that point. When he gave into Tak when faced with the horrors of the reality he was bound to create by killing her (thanks Caramon), it was probably about the time Tak stripped him of his access to magic. Or maybe he had burned through his prepared spells, and since he no longer had access to the sources of magic he drew from (not to mention spellbooks to refresh his daily reportoire of spells) he didn't have anything left at that point. Just guesses, though. :P
#15 zombiegleemax Mar 15, 2005 16:47:11	Did he lose his powers or was he forbidden to practice magic? I thought he was forbidden. Someone read Dragons of Summer Flame again...
#16 Charles_Phipps Mar 15, 2005 17:28:00	He lost his ability to do magic when he entered the mortal world. Takhasis curse on him. My guess is that it was removed because he was the one who found Krynn