Red Curse, still realistic or not? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Red Curse, still realistic or not?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Mortepierre
Mar 16, 2005 13:41:57 I refer specifically to the red curse described in Red Steel and the Savage Baronies (and converted to 3.5E in Dragon #315).

The only problem I have with it in its current form is that it affects far too many people (at least following the events of Wrath of the Immortals ).

If it takes one ounce of Cinnabryl to be protected from the curse for one week and one ounce is worth 1 gp, that means each post-puberty being would have to invest 48 gp (12 months, 4 weeks per month) per year to stay on the safe side.

So, ok, 48 gp is nothing to nobles, merchants and adventurers but what of the commoners? I know we're dealing with a heroic-fantasy setting roughly of Renaissance era (at least in the Savage Baronies area) but that still remains a lot of money to peasants, no?

And that's with the price outlined in the old Red Steel boxed set! According to Dragon #315, 1 lb of Cinnabryl is now worth 600 gp and thus, each ounce is worth roughly 38 gp. Our yearly due goes from 48 gp (2E) to an incredible 1800 gp (!!!) in 3.5E

Not to mention that with so many people needing such amounts of Cinnabryl, the mines would be depleted in record time! Yes, I am aware that Cinnabryl 'regrows' naturally but only if left alone for a long while. If you dig up everything, nothing remains.

Moreover, with each protected inhabitant 'producing' roughly 3 lbs of red steel per year, the metal would no longer be considered 'rare', no?

One more question. I seem to recall maps showing the areas under the curse before and after the 'day without magic'. Anyone remember in which magazine/accessory/module that was?
#2
culture20
Mar 16, 2005 20:43:23 Cinnabryl tends to get distributed amongst the poor in the enlightened states (and they can resell the red steel for a profit; sometimes they turn in the redsteel for the cinnabryl, increasing the redsteel weapons for the state). Narveaz & Torreon tend to let their peasants suffer, except that Narvaez expects its peasants to be blessed by the priests.

Thus the "Maintain" spell:
Maintain
6th-level Wizard Spell (Necromancy, Abjuration)
3rd-level Priest Spell (Protection)
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M
Duration: 1 day per level
Casting Time: 1 turn
Area of Effect: One creature
Saving Throw: None
Since cinnabryl is difficult to find in some places, priests developed a spell to counteract some of the effects of the Red Curse. After some work, wizards were able to duplicate the spell's effects.
The caster must recite the spell's verbal component while touching the target individual. The material component of the spell is at least one ounce of undepleted cinnabryl. This must be touched to the recipient's head at the end of casting, but it is not consumed in the casting.
The target is maintained at his current stage of the Red Curse for the duration of the spell. A recipient in the Time of Grace remains at that stage (except for suffering the loss of a single ability point); a recipient in the Time of Loss or the Time of Change stays at exactly the same point as when the spell is cast. The use of a Legacy by the recipient immediately dispels the maintain spell.
As mentioned, this spell does not prevent the loss of the initial 1 point from the appropriate ability score, nor does it eliminate or heal any existent detrimental effects. It also does not work on Inheritors. If the recipient is the victim of a successful deplete spell, the maintain spell is immediately eliminated, and the full time called for by the deplete spell is instantaneously applied to the Time of Loss and Change.
This spell is used throughout the Savage Coast, but most commonly in Robrenn, Eusdria, Renardy, Bellayne, and Herath. In several small towns, the village priest or wizard makes rounds, casting the spell on all who need it. This holds off detrimental effects and keeps the common folk in those small towns from using Legacies.

I tend to make this a 1st level clerical spell since _every_ peasant in Narvaez is expected to be "maintained" (if afflicted, it's proof that you didn't attend church). It's unrealistic to assume that the group of clerics who can cast 3rd level spells can maintain all the peasants. But, as 1st level spells, and given Wis bonuses (2nd E AD&D), a small group of 1st/2nd level priests could maintain a whole village.

Concerning the rarity of red steel: It's still quite rare in Slagovich, which trades cinnabryl for the red steel. The red steel is also hoarded by the states for their personal armies, and also by the inheritors (to create artificial markets, for experimentation, for red steel smithing of their own).

I too would be interested in seeing such a map; I didn't know the prior-WotI map of the Curse existed. There is a map that came with the Red Steel Online supplement, which showed the different regions, but I assume you don't mean that one.
#3
agathokles
Mar 17, 2005 2:16:35
So, ok, 48 gp is nothing to nobles, merchants and adventurers but what of the commoners? I know we're dealing with a heroic-fantasy setting roughly of Renaissance era (at least in the Savage Baronies area) but that still remains a lot of money to peasants, no?

As Culture20 said, the Maintain spell is used to help people who cannot afford Cinnabryl. While it's true that, as a 3rd level spell, Maintain cannot cover the whole population of the Savage Coast (especially since priests are not that common in the Savage Baronies, except Narvaez), I'd rather allow priests to use Maintain in combination with faith/devotional magic (AD&D-wise) than lower its level. That way, while a mid-level priest would be still required, low level priests (and even lay followers) could be of help.

Use of the Combine spell is already within the rules, and would allow each Maintain spell to be prolonged by four days.
Use of the Focus spell is a bit unortodox, since Maintain is not in the list of spells that can be affected by Focus, but it would not be the first spell with personal effect that can be used in a Focus ritual.
#4
zombiegleemax
Mar 17, 2005 4:13:39 Another thing I might add: Mantain is commonly used to help the poor not turn into Afflicted, but nobody ever made a census of all the Afflicted of the Savage Coast, so there might be MANY.

Morevoer, I don't get why Dragon mag had such an incredibly High cost for Cynnabryl! After all Red Stell is set in Mystara POST Wrath, so it must have the correct cost rate for Cynnabril. I advise you to use the RS cost, or if you really wanna have it higher, double it, but don't make it more expensive than this.
#5
Mortepierre
Mar 17, 2005 4:40:46
I too would be interested in seeing such a map; I didn't know the prior-WotI map of the Curse existed. There is a map that came with the Red Steel Online supplement, which showed the different regions, but I assume you don't mean that one.

No, indeed, I am aware of that one but it shows mainly which region uses what table to determine which legacy you have.

IIRC, there was an issue of Dragon - published after Wrath of the Immortals - that had dual maps of before/after to show how the red curse now affected a larger area. Guess I'll have to dig out my old Archives CD and hope the Search function turns up something...

Thanks for the advice guys!
#6
agathokles
Mar 17, 2005 9:00:43
I advise you to use the RS cost, or if you really wanna have it higher, double it, but don't make it more expensive than this.

Note, though, that Inheritors have a near monopoly of Cinnabryl, and some of them may charge more than others, or otherwise affect the price. Basically, Cinnabryl is not available on the free market, and is a good that is usually reserved only to adventurers and other people who cannot rely on Maintain spells -- many Inheritors even refuse to sell to the average citizens and/or rise the prices artificially in order to prevent people from using their legacies, and therefore from becoming permanently dependent on Cinnabryl.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mortepierre Mar 16, 2005 13:41:57	I refer specifically to the red curse described in Red Steel and the Savage Baronies (and converted to 3.5E in Dragon #315). The only problem I have with it in its current form is that it affects far too many people (at least following the events of Wrath of the Immortals ). If it takes one ounce of Cinnabryl to be protected from the curse for one week and one ounce is worth 1 gp, that means each post-puberty being would have to invest 48 gp (12 months, 4 weeks per month) per year to stay on the safe side. So, ok, 48 gp is nothing to nobles, merchants and adventurers but what of the commoners? I know we're dealing with a heroic-fantasy setting roughly of Renaissance era (at least in the Savage Baronies area) but that still remains a lot of money to peasants, no? And that's with the price outlined in the old Red Steel boxed set! According to Dragon #315, 1 lb of Cinnabryl is now worth 600 gp and thus, each ounce is worth roughly 38 gp. Our yearly due goes from 48 gp (2E) to an incredible 1800 gp (!!!) in 3.5E Not to mention that with so many people needing such amounts of Cinnabryl, the mines would be depleted in record time! Yes, I am aware that Cinnabryl 'regrows' naturally but only if left alone for a long while. If you dig up everything, nothing remains. Moreover, with each protected inhabitant 'producing' roughly 3 lbs of red steel per year, the metal would no longer be considered 'rare', no? One more question. I seem to recall maps showing the areas under the curse before and after the 'day without magic'. Anyone remember in which magazine/accessory/module that was?
#2 culture20 Mar 16, 2005 20:43:23	Cinnabryl tends to get distributed amongst the poor in the enlightened states (and they can resell the red steel for a profit; sometimes they turn in the redsteel for the cinnabryl, increasing the redsteel weapons for the state). Narveaz & Torreon tend to let their peasants suffer, except that Narvaez expects its peasants to be blessed by the priests. Thus the "Maintain" spell: Maintain 6th-level Wizard Spell (Necromancy, Abjuration) 3rd-level Priest Spell (Protection) Range: Touch Components: V, S, M Duration: 1 day per level Casting Time: 1 turn Area of Effect: One creature Saving Throw: None Since cinnabryl is difficult to find in some places, priests developed a spell to counteract some of the effects of the Red Curse. After some work, wizards were able to duplicate the spell's effects. The caster must recite the spell's verbal component while touching the target individual. The material component of the spell is at least one ounce of undepleted cinnabryl. This must be touched to the recipient's head at the end of casting, but it is not consumed in the casting. The target is maintained at his current stage of the Red Curse for the duration of the spell. A recipient in the Time of Grace remains at that stage (except for suffering the loss of a single ability point); a recipient in the Time of Loss or the Time of Change stays at exactly the same point as when the spell is cast. The use of a Legacy by the recipient immediately dispels the maintain spell. As mentioned, this spell does not prevent the loss of the initial 1 point from the appropriate ability score, nor does it eliminate or heal any existent detrimental effects. It also does not work on Inheritors. If the recipient is the victim of a successful deplete spell, the maintain spell is immediately eliminated, and the full time called for by the deplete spell is instantaneously applied to the Time of Loss and Change. This spell is used throughout the Savage Coast, but most commonly in Robrenn, Eusdria, Renardy, Bellayne, and Herath. In several small towns, the village priest or wizard makes rounds, casting the spell on all who need it. This holds off detrimental effects and keeps the common folk in those small towns from using Legacies. I tend to make this a 1st level clerical spell since _every_ peasant in Narvaez is expected to be "maintained" (if afflicted, it's proof that you didn't attend church). It's unrealistic to assume that the group of clerics who can cast 3rd level spells can maintain all the peasants. But, as 1st level spells, and given Wis bonuses (2nd E AD&D), a small group of 1st/2nd level priests could maintain a whole village. Concerning the rarity of red steel: It's still quite rare in Slagovich, which trades cinnabryl for the red steel. The red steel is also hoarded by the states for their personal armies, and also by the inheritors (to create artificial markets, for experimentation, for red steel smithing of their own). I too would be interested in seeing such a map; I didn't know the prior-WotI map of the Curse existed. There is a map that came with the Red Steel Online supplement, which showed the different regions, but I assume you don't mean that one.
#3 agathokles Mar 17, 2005 2:16:35	So, ok, 48 gp is nothing to nobles, merchants and adventurers but what of the commoners? I know we're dealing with a heroic-fantasy setting roughly of Renaissance era (at least in the Savage Baronies area) but that still remains a lot of money to peasants, no? As Culture20 said, the Maintain spell is used to help people who cannot afford Cinnabryl. While it's true that, as a 3rd level spell, Maintain cannot cover the whole population of the Savage Coast (especially since priests are not that common in the Savage Baronies, except Narvaez), I'd rather allow priests to use Maintain in combination with faith/devotional magic (AD&D-wise) than lower its level. That way, while a mid-level priest would be still required, low level priests (and even lay followers) could be of help. Use of the Combine spell is already within the rules, and would allow each Maintain spell to be prolonged by four days. Use of the Focus spell is a bit unortodox, since Maintain is not in the list of spells that can be affected by Focus, but it would not be the first spell with personal effect that can be used in a Focus ritual.
#4 zombiegleemax Mar 17, 2005 4:13:39	Another thing I might add: Mantain is commonly used to help the poor not turn into Afflicted, but nobody ever made a census of all the Afflicted of the Savage Coast, so there might be MANY. Morevoer, I don't get why Dragon mag had such an incredibly High cost for Cynnabryl! After all Red Stell is set in Mystara POST Wrath, so it must have the correct cost rate for Cynnabril. I advise you to use the RS cost, or if you really wanna have it higher, double it, but don't make it more expensive than this.
#5 Mortepierre Mar 17, 2005 4:40:46	I too would be interested in seeing such a map; I didn't know the prior-WotI map of the Curse existed. There is a map that came with the Red Steel Online supplement, which showed the different regions, but I assume you don't mean that one. No, indeed, I am aware of that one but it shows mainly which region uses what table to determine which legacy you have. IIRC, there was an issue of Dragon - published after Wrath of the Immortals - that had dual maps of before/after to show how the red curse now affected a larger area. Guess I'll have to dig out my old Archives CD and hope the Search function turns up something... Thanks for the advice guys!
#6 agathokles Mar 17, 2005 9:00:43	I advise you to use the RS cost, or if you really wanna have it higher, double it, but don't make it more expensive than this. Note, though, that Inheritors have a near monopoly of Cinnabryl, and some of them may charge more than others, or otherwise affect the price. Basically, Cinnabryl is not available on the free market, and is a good that is usually reserved only to adventurers and other people who cannot rely on Maintain spells -- many Inheritors even refuse to sell to the average citizens and/or rise the prices artificially in order to prevent people from using their legacies, and therefore from becoming permanently dependent on Cinnabryl.