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The Ylari Bard

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Platonix
Mar 21, 2005 21:28:34 I own a copy of the Dungeons & Dragons Rules Cyclopedia ©1991, which briefly describes the Known World in Appendix 1. It mentions that the use of "magic" (meaning arcane magic) is forbidden in the Emirates of Ylaruam: "Magic-users and elves are hunted down, tried and executed when their presence becomes known" (this is from back in the days when Elf was a class and they were all fighter/wizard hybrids.)

I can easily extend this into 3rd Ed. rules: Wizardry is a forbidden art, and wizards are hunted down, tried, yadda yadda yadda. The same fate meets foreign sorcerers. If a native Ylari develops sorcerous powers, he is exiled from the Emirates; if he dares to return, he is treated as a foreign sorcerer.

Then I come to bards. Bards wield arcane spells too, but they're an integral part of any society (just ask them.) You can't just exclude poets and songwriters because some place doesn't fancy the arcane.

So how are Bards handled in 3rd Ed. Ylaruam? Has the cultural taboo against arcane magic been dropped (I can't find any reference to it online!?) I was thinking of crafting a variant Bard class that doesn't get arcane spells and compensates by having a slightly better Base Attack Bonus progression and getting bardic music abilities sooner (maybe even giving it some lesser Virtuoso Performance abilities); has this, or something like it, already been done?
#2
culture20
Mar 21, 2005 21:55:35 Skills in itinerant singing and playing of musical instruments does not make one a Bard (a fighter/thief/mage with a talent for everything), merely a bard (a [traveling] performer).
I would say that a Bard would have some explaining to do if he added a few magical effects to his performances in the Emirates.
#3
Cthulhudrew
Mar 21, 2005 21:57:55 The references to arcane magic users in the Cyclopedia is a very simplified version of what actually appears in the Gaz2: Emirates of Ylaruam product. In that product, wizards were not specifically targeted, nor were elves. In point of fact, the Ylari army has an entire unit of mounted spellcasters. The only forms of magic that were specifically outlawed were necromancy and fire magicks. Elves were rare and viewed with suspicion, but were not outright hated and feared.

At some point post-Gaz2, this did sort of change. Other writers seemed to have misinterpreted what was written in Gaz2 and introduced the whole "Ylari hate wizards and elves" spiel that was, unfortunately, used in the Cyclopedia.
#4
Hugin
Mar 21, 2005 22:05:48
It mentions that the use of "magic" (meaning arcane magic) is forbidden in the Emirates of Ylaruam:

I thought the same thing for a long time until I finally found a copy of the Ylaruam gaz at a used book store (and there was much rejoicing ). Seeing that the gaz was printed before the Rules Cyclopedia, I was surprized to find that sorcerery was veiwed as a craft which one could purchase a licence to practice, and it is "taxed and regulated" as other crafts. It also says that "in the interest of public safty, sorcerers [all magic-users are called this in Ylaruam] are required to wear distinctive garments which announce their profession to observers". I'm not sure why the difference between the RC and the gaz.

It continues to say "the public use of deadly or destructive magic itself is no more criminal than violence or destruction caused caused by a skilled warrior or escaped wild animal." It is the results that are the crime, not the means. The sentence for concealing sorcerous ability is exile or imprisonment.

IMC, I play the Ylari people as very cautious and suspicious of sorcerers (mainly if a foreigner), but not confrontational if you followed the laws.

Now, back to bards, I never thought about them in the Emirates before. The gaz goes into great detail about the importance of story-telling! Bards would be quite common I'd think! Of course, just as with sorcerers, they would be treated as a special craft requiring them to be licenced, taxed, and identified.

Seeing as how the players IMC are presently in the Emirates, I think a Bard NPC is in order. (Mind you, they have their hands full right now with the Magian Fire-Worshippers :evillaugh )

(Added: Boy these guys are quick! Beat me to the punch, they did!)
#5
Platonix
Mar 21, 2005 22:54:17
Now, back to bards, I never thought about them in the Emirates before. The gaz goes into great detail about the importance of story-telling! Bards would be quite common I'd think! Of course, just as with sorcerers, they would be treated as a special craft requiring them to be licenced, taxed, and identified.

Ah, so there's no need for a non-spellcaster Ylari Bard class, even for Bards raised and trained in the Emirates? Okay, thanks for the info!
#6
Platonix
Mar 21, 2005 23:20:14 Hm. Just thought of something else. If Ylari aren't the arcanophobes I thought they were, then is the RC also overstating the situation in the Principalities of Glantri?

"Description: This forested and mountainous northern land is a magocracy, a land ruled by magic-users. Clerics are outlawed (they're sentenced to death when found)."

This seems a tad bit extreme to me. Does no one there worship Boccob, god of magic, at least?
#7
thorf
Mar 22, 2005 0:33:07
"Description: This forested and mountainous northern land is a magocracy, a land ruled by magic-users. Clerics are outlawed (they're sentenced to death when found)."

This seems a tad bit extreme to me. Does no one there worship Boccob, god of magic, at least?

Hehe, this one is right on I'm afraid. Clerics are indeed outlawed, although this of course causes problems when disease and plague break out, as in Wrath of the Immortals.

The only form of worship sanctioned in Glantri is the worship of the Immortal Rad, which is somewhat different from normal clerical worship if I remember right. Of course that's not surprising, since Rad in a mortal identity is also one of the leaders of the land...

As for Boccob and other gods, Mystara doesn't follow the same rules for gods as the rest of the D&D worlds. Instead of gods, it has Immortals.
#8
agathokles
Mar 22, 2005 1:55:12
Hehe, this one is right on I'm afraid. Clerics are indeed outlawed, although this of course causes problems when disease and plague break out, as in Wrath of the Immortals.

In later products, this restriction was lifted (by having the Council pass laws that allow Clerics to operate in the Principalities).
At GAZ time (1000 AC), though, being a cleric or priest is a crime, punished by burning at the stake.

The only form of worship sanctioned in Glantri is the worship of the Immortal Rad, which is somewhat different from normal clerical worship if I remember right. Of course that's not surprising, since Rad in a mortal identity is also one of the leaders of the land...

And, BTW, is not considered by the Glantrians as an individual, but as a force (i.e., Rad is a name for magic). Only members of the Brotherhood of Radiance, IMO, should be aware that Rad is actually a person (and they probably understand that he is an Immortal).
#9
zombiegleemax
Mar 22, 2005 8:00:10
Hm. Just thought of something else. If Ylari aren't the arcanophobes I thought they were, then is the RC also overstating the situation in the Principalities of Glantri?

"Description: This forested and mountainous northern land is a magocracy, a land ruled by magic-users. Clerics are outlawed (they're sentenced to death when found)."

I think they made the Ylaruam restriction more extreme in the RC just to make it look more symmetrical with the situation in Glantri, which was well established.

BTW, check out http://mystaranet.jamm.com/m3e/pages/immortals.htm for 3E details of the Mystaran Immortals. The most important ones for Ylaruam and Glantri are Al-Kalim and Rad.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Platonix Mar 21, 2005 21:28:34	I own a copy of the Dungeons & Dragons Rules Cyclopedia ©1991, which briefly describes the Known World in Appendix 1. It mentions that the use of "magic" (meaning arcane magic) is forbidden in the Emirates of Ylaruam: "Magic-users and elves are hunted down, tried and executed when their presence becomes known" (this is from back in the days when Elf was a class and they were all fighter/wizard hybrids.) I can easily extend this into 3rd Ed. rules: Wizardry is a forbidden art, and wizards are hunted down, tried, yadda yadda yadda. The same fate meets foreign sorcerers. If a native Ylari develops sorcerous powers, he is exiled from the Emirates; if he dares to return, he is treated as a foreign sorcerer. Then I come to bards. Bards wield arcane spells too, but they're an integral part of any society (just ask them.) You can't just exclude poets and songwriters because some place doesn't fancy the arcane. So how are Bards handled in 3rd Ed. Ylaruam? Has the cultural taboo against arcane magic been dropped (I can't find any reference to it online!?) I was thinking of crafting a variant Bard class that doesn't get arcane spells and compensates by having a slightly better Base Attack Bonus progression and getting bardic music abilities sooner (maybe even giving it some lesser Virtuoso Performance abilities); has this, or something like it, already been done?
#2 culture20 Mar 21, 2005 21:55:35	Skills in itinerant singing and playing of musical instruments does not make one a Bard (a fighter/thief/mage with a talent for everything), merely a bard (a [traveling] performer). I would say that a Bard would have some explaining to do if he added a few magical effects to his performances in the Emirates.
#3 Cthulhudrew Mar 21, 2005 21:57:55	The references to arcane magic users in the Cyclopedia is a very simplified version of what actually appears in the Gaz2: Emirates of Ylaruam product. In that product, wizards were not specifically targeted, nor were elves. In point of fact, the Ylari army has an entire unit of mounted spellcasters. The only forms of magic that were specifically outlawed were necromancy and fire magicks. Elves were rare and viewed with suspicion, but were not outright hated and feared. At some point post-Gaz2, this did sort of change. Other writers seemed to have misinterpreted what was written in Gaz2 and introduced the whole "Ylari hate wizards and elves" spiel that was, unfortunately, used in the Cyclopedia.
#4 Hugin Mar 21, 2005 22:05:48	It mentions that the use of "magic" (meaning arcane magic) is forbidden in the Emirates of Ylaruam: I thought the same thing for a long time until I finally found a copy of the Ylaruam gaz at a used book store (and there was much rejoicing ). Seeing that the gaz was printed before the Rules Cyclopedia, I was surprized to find that sorcerery was veiwed as a craft which one could purchase a licence to practice, and it is "taxed and regulated" as other crafts. It also says that "in the interest of public safty, sorcerers [all magic-users are called this in Ylaruam] are required to wear distinctive garments which announce their profession to observers". I'm not sure why the difference between the RC and the gaz. It continues to say "the public use of deadly or destructive magic itself is no more criminal than violence or destruction caused caused by a skilled warrior or escaped wild animal." It is the results that are the crime, not the means. The sentence for concealing sorcerous ability is exile or imprisonment. IMC, I play the Ylari people as very cautious and suspicious of sorcerers (mainly if a foreigner), but not confrontational if you followed the laws. Now, back to bards, I never thought about them in the Emirates before. The gaz goes into great detail about the importance of story-telling! Bards would be quite common I'd think! Of course, just as with sorcerers, they would be treated as a special craft requiring them to be licenced, taxed, and identified. Seeing as how the players IMC are presently in the Emirates, I think a Bard NPC is in order. (Mind you, they have their hands full right now with the Magian Fire-Worshippers :evillaugh ) (Added: Boy these guys are quick! Beat me to the punch, they did!)
#5 Platonix Mar 21, 2005 22:54:17	Now, back to bards, I never thought about them in the Emirates before. The gaz goes into great detail about the importance of story-telling! Bards would be quite common I'd think! Of course, just as with sorcerers, they would be treated as a special craft requiring them to be licenced, taxed, and identified. Ah, so there's no need for a non-spellcaster Ylari Bard class, even for Bards raised and trained in the Emirates? Okay, thanks for the info!
#6 Platonix Mar 21, 2005 23:20:14	Hm. Just thought of something else. If Ylari aren't the arcanophobes I thought they were, then is the RC also overstating the situation in the Principalities of Glantri? "Description: This forested and mountainous northern land is a magocracy, a land ruled by magic-users. Clerics are outlawed (they're sentenced to death when found)." This seems a tad bit extreme to me. Does no one there worship Boccob, god of magic, at least?
#7 thorf Mar 22, 2005 0:33:07	"Description: This forested and mountainous northern land is a magocracy, a land ruled by magic-users. Clerics are outlawed (they're sentenced to death when found)." This seems a tad bit extreme to me. Does no one there worship Boccob, god of magic, at least? Hehe, this one is right on I'm afraid. Clerics are indeed outlawed, although this of course causes problems when disease and plague break out, as in Wrath of the Immortals. The only form of worship sanctioned in Glantri is the worship of the Immortal Rad, which is somewhat different from normal clerical worship if I remember right. Of course that's not surprising, since Rad in a mortal identity is also one of the leaders of the land... As for Boccob and other gods, Mystara doesn't follow the same rules for gods as the rest of the D&D worlds. Instead of gods, it has Immortals.
#8 agathokles Mar 22, 2005 1:55:12	Hehe, this one is right on I'm afraid. Clerics are indeed outlawed, although this of course causes problems when disease and plague break out, as in Wrath of the Immortals. In later products, this restriction was lifted (by having the Council pass laws that allow Clerics to operate in the Principalities). At GAZ time (1000 AC), though, being a cleric or priest is a crime, punished by burning at the stake. The only form of worship sanctioned in Glantri is the worship of the Immortal Rad, which is somewhat different from normal clerical worship if I remember right. Of course that's not surprising, since Rad in a mortal identity is also one of the leaders of the land... And, BTW, is not considered by the Glantrians as an individual, but as a force (i.e., Rad is a name for magic). Only members of the Brotherhood of Radiance, IMO, should be aware that Rad is actually a person (and they probably understand that he is an Immortal).
#9 zombiegleemax Mar 22, 2005 8:00:10	Hm. Just thought of something else. If Ylari aren't the arcanophobes I thought they were, then is the RC also overstating the situation in the Principalities of Glantri? "Description: This forested and mountainous northern land is a magocracy, a land ruled by magic-users. Clerics are outlawed (they're sentenced to death when found)." I think they made the Ylaruam restriction more extreme in the RC just to make it look more symmetrical with the situation in Glantri, which was well established. BTW, check out http://mystaranet.jamm.com/m3e/pages/immortals.htm for 3E details of the Mystaran Immortals. The most important ones for Ylaruam and Glantri are Al-Kalim and Rad.