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Dispel Magic in Dragonlance

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
amethal
Mar 25, 2005 13:28:43 I've never played a 3rd editon Dragonlance campaign, but I'd like to one day so I was looking through the book and something caught my attention.

Am I correct in thinking that normally only White Robes can use Dispel Magic?

(It looks to me that Red and Black Robes have to choose Abjuration as a barred school, either at 1st level or when they take the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class.)

If this is right, does it have much of an impact on Dragonlance campaigns?

(I am aware that bards, clerics, druids, mystics and sorcerers can also cast dispel magic.)
#2
cam_banks
Mar 25, 2005 13:36:31
I've never played a 3rd editon Dragonlance campaign, but I'd like to one day so I was looking through the book and something caught my attention.

Am I correct in thinking that normally only White Robes can use Dispel Magic?

(It looks to me that Red and Black Robes have to choose Abjuration as a barred school, either at 1st level or when they take the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class.)

There are many ways around this. The first is simply not to take arcane focus (called enhanced specialization in the DLCS, renamed and revised in Towers of High Sorcery) and therefore not concern yourself with prohibited schools. The next is not to take Abjuration as a prohibited school. You're not required to do so - in fact, a Red Robe and a Black Robe can each take the other's schools as prohibited schools and leave Abjuration alone, assuming they don't mind giving up Conjuration or Evocation.

Cheers,
Cam
#3
amethal
Mar 25, 2005 16:42:15
There are many ways around this. The first is simply not to take arcane focus (called enhanced specialization in the DLCS, renamed and revised in Towers of High Sorcery) and therefore not concern yourself with prohibited schools. The next is not to take Abjuration as a prohibited school. You're not required to do so - in fact, a Red Robe and a Black Robe can each take the other's schools as prohibited schools and leave Abjuration alone, assuming they don't mind giving up Conjuration or Evocation.

Cheers,
Cam

Thanks for the reply.

All I have is the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Is "Towers of High Sorcery" a Dragonlance RPG supplement? [If so, is it worth buying?]

From the DLCS p73 :-

"A wizard who hopes to enter any order must be specialised in one of the two schools favoured by his order ..... and he must choose all his barred schools from among the four schools that are favoured by the other two orders."

What is doesn't say there (but points out in the example on p74) is you can't choose Divination (per PHB) so that reduces barred schools to 2 from 3 schools if you aren't a White Robe.

Enhanced specialisation means you have to give up another of the schools that are favoured by the other two orders so that's 3 from 3, so you can't have abjuration.
#4
loreseeker
Mar 25, 2005 16:58:15 In the 2E, Dispel Magic is, as a 3rd Level spell, available to every Order of High Sorcery. At least in one of the rules used in 2E, up to 3rd level spells can be used by any wizard (of the Orders), regardless of whether they belongs to an otherwise prohibited school.
That is, the prohibition takes effect beginning with 4th level spells
#5
zombiegleemax
Mar 25, 2005 17:20:54 Towers of High Sorcery is, in fact, a Dragonlance supplement (a most excellent supplement, I would add). In that supplement it gives a sort of revamped version of the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class that allows you to either be a generalist wizard or take specialization after you become a wizard of high sorcery. In that case, a red robe or a black robe wouldn't have to pick abjuration as a barred school if they didn't want to.

I think that's pretty much what Cam Banks was getting at in his previous reply.
#6
amethal
Mar 25, 2005 18:22:27
Towers of High Sorcery is, in fact, a Dragonlance supplement (a most excellent supplement, I would add). In that supplement it gives a sort of revamped version of the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class that allows you to either be a generalist wizard or take specialization after you become a wizard of high sorcery. In that case, a red robe or a black robe wouldn't have to pick abjuration as a barred school if they didn't want to.

I think that's pretty much what Cam Banks was getting at in his previous reply.

Thank you. I will add Towers of High Sorcery to my wish list.

However, are there people out there getting by very well without ToHS? Is it just my own evil DM who punishes* wizards who don't prepare Dispel Magic?

(Incidentally, feel free to tell me to sod off back to the general boards as this has now become something of a general question.)

EDIT *these are in game punishments, where the combat would have been much easier had we been able to dispel the BBEG's buffs
#7
zombiegleemax
Mar 25, 2005 23:39:58 I seem to be getting along without ToHS, though from what I've seen of it, if you can afford it buy it. But I'm just a poor little white girl. Lol. Seriously, it's an awesome book, but I have two wizards in my game and we're still alive without it.
#8
zombiegleemax
Mar 25, 2005 23:44:21 As a DM, I can honestly say it would make my life a lot easier if the wizard in our group didn't have Dispel Magic. He is an abjurer, however, and I suppose it comes with the territory.

I suppose you could always try to get a wand or some scrolls made for you by one of your white-robed friends at the next WoHS Swap Meet.
#9
raistlinrox
Mar 26, 2005 10:49:26
There are many ways around this. The first is simply not to take arcane focus (called enhanced specialization in the DLCS, renamed and revised in Towers of High Sorcery) and therefore not concern yourself with prohibited schools. The next is not to take Abjuration as a prohibited school. You're not required to do so - in fact, a Red Robe and a Black Robe can each take the other's schools as prohibited schools and leave Abjuration alone, assuming they don't mind giving up Conjuration or Evocation.

Cheers,
Cam

I thought you had to take your prohibited schools from the other Order's specializations (with the exception to Divination of course), so conjuration and evocation wouldn't be possible (unless I'm reading something wrong, which I might be doing)
#10
cam_banks
Mar 26, 2005 12:35:31
I thought you had to take your prohibited schools from the other Order's specializations (with the exception to Divination of course), so conjuration and evocation wouldn't be possible (unless I'm reading something wrong, which I might be doing)

This is one of the other minor tweaks made to the class in ToHS. The only time you're forced to choose a school from another Order's favored schools is when you give up a school by taking an arcane focus in an existing specialization.

Cheers,
Cam
#11
raistlinrox
Mar 26, 2005 23:48:55 So as a 1st level specialist, they may choose any 2 schools? I didn't catch that, sweet.
#12
daedavias_dup
Mar 27, 2005 9:06:12
So as a 1st level specialist, they may choose any 2 schools? I didn't catch that, sweet.

It makes sense too, since hardly any of the wizards should know what robe color they will be receiving after their test. Of course, a black robe Abjurer would just be silly.
#13
amethal
Mar 28, 2005 8:24:01
It makes sense too, since hardly any of the wizards should know what robe color they will be receiving after their test. Of course, a black robe Abjurer would just be silly.

Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated!

I must admit I rather like the idea per the DLCS where the lawful good enchanter (who has dedicated his career so far to peacefully putting opponents to sleep and temporarily persuading enemies to see it from his point of view in order to avoid bloodshed) finally passes the test and is told congratulations, he's just joined the Black Robes.

Its almost as nice as imagining what happens to specialist evokers who pass the test .......
#14
true_blue
Mar 28, 2005 13:02:33 I actually dont see how any specialist couldnt be of any robe. I would think that the Black Robes have had a few Abjurers. I'm sure that the White Robes have had Enchanters like what you said, that use peaceful means and such. I'm sure either one has had a few people who just loved Illusions, but used them either for real evil or to do nice things for people(like birthday parties, etc.. I dunno =p).

Anyways, I by no means think that what school you specialize in should determine what Robe or alignment you end up having to be. I've had a few Evocationers who were Black Robes in my party before. It wouldnt have bothered me if one was an Illusionist, Abjurer, etc.

The main thing I limit the person on is they can't get the "Enhanced Specialization" unless the school is a favored school for that Robe. But seeing as I can't get anyone to actually take the ability no matter how much I try to convince them, it hasn't really ever came up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 amethal Mar 25, 2005 13:28:43	I've never played a 3rd editon Dragonlance campaign, but I'd like to one day so I was looking through the book and something caught my attention. Am I correct in thinking that normally only White Robes can use Dispel Magic? (It looks to me that Red and Black Robes have to choose Abjuration as a barred school, either at 1st level or when they take the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class.) If this is right, does it have much of an impact on Dragonlance campaigns? (I am aware that bards, clerics, druids, mystics and sorcerers can also cast dispel magic.)
#2 cam_banks Mar 25, 2005 13:36:31	I've never played a 3rd editon Dragonlance campaign, but I'd like to one day so I was looking through the book and something caught my attention. Am I correct in thinking that normally only White Robes can use Dispel Magic? (It looks to me that Red and Black Robes have to choose Abjuration as a barred school, either at 1st level or when they take the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class.) There are many ways around this. The first is simply not to take arcane focus (called enhanced specialization in the DLCS, renamed and revised in Towers of High Sorcery) and therefore not concern yourself with prohibited schools. The next is not to take Abjuration as a prohibited school. You're not required to do so - in fact, a Red Robe and a Black Robe can each take the other's schools as prohibited schools and leave Abjuration alone, assuming they don't mind giving up Conjuration or Evocation. Cheers, Cam
#3 amethal Mar 25, 2005 16:42:15	There are many ways around this. The first is simply not to take arcane focus (called enhanced specialization in the DLCS, renamed and revised in Towers of High Sorcery) and therefore not concern yourself with prohibited schools. The next is not to take Abjuration as a prohibited school. You're not required to do so - in fact, a Red Robe and a Black Robe can each take the other's schools as prohibited schools and leave Abjuration alone, assuming they don't mind giving up Conjuration or Evocation. Cheers, Cam Thanks for the reply. All I have is the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Is "Towers of High Sorcery" a Dragonlance RPG supplement? [If so, is it worth buying?] From the DLCS p73 :- "A wizard who hopes to enter any order must be specialised in one of the two schools favoured by his order ..... and he must choose all his barred schools from among the four schools that are favoured by the other two orders." What is doesn't say there (but points out in the example on p74) is you can't choose Divination (per PHB) so that reduces barred schools to 2 from 3 schools if you aren't a White Robe. Enhanced specialisation means you have to give up another of the schools that are favoured by the other two orders so that's 3 from 3, so you can't have abjuration.
#4 loreseeker Mar 25, 2005 16:58:15	In the 2E, Dispel Magic is, as a 3rd Level spell, available to every Order of High Sorcery. At least in one of the rules used in 2E, up to 3rd level spells can be used by any wizard (of the Orders), regardless of whether they belongs to an otherwise prohibited school. That is, the prohibition takes effect beginning with 4th level spells
#5 zombiegleemax Mar 25, 2005 17:20:54	Towers of High Sorcery is, in fact, a Dragonlance supplement (a most excellent supplement, I would add). In that supplement it gives a sort of revamped version of the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class that allows you to either be a generalist wizard or take specialization after you become a wizard of high sorcery. In that case, a red robe or a black robe wouldn't have to pick abjuration as a barred school if they didn't want to. I think that's pretty much what Cam Banks was getting at in his previous reply.
#6 amethal Mar 25, 2005 18:22:27	Towers of High Sorcery is, in fact, a Dragonlance supplement (a most excellent supplement, I would add). In that supplement it gives a sort of revamped version of the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class that allows you to either be a generalist wizard or take specialization after you become a wizard of high sorcery. In that case, a red robe or a black robe wouldn't have to pick abjuration as a barred school if they didn't want to. I think that's pretty much what Cam Banks was getting at in his previous reply. Thank you. I will add Towers of High Sorcery to my wish list. However, are there people out there getting by very well without ToHS? Is it just my own evil DM who punishes* wizards who don't prepare Dispel Magic? (Incidentally, feel free to tell me to sod off back to the general boards as this has now become something of a general question.) EDIT *these are in game punishments, where the combat would have been much easier had we been able to dispel the BBEG's buffs
#7 zombiegleemax Mar 25, 2005 23:39:58	I seem to be getting along without ToHS, though from what I've seen of it, if you can afford it buy it. But I'm just a poor little white girl. Lol. Seriously, it's an awesome book, but I have two wizards in my game and we're still alive without it.
#8 zombiegleemax Mar 25, 2005 23:44:21	As a DM, I can honestly say it would make my life a lot easier if the wizard in our group didn't have Dispel Magic. He is an abjurer, however, and I suppose it comes with the territory. I suppose you could always try to get a wand or some scrolls made for you by one of your white-robed friends at the next WoHS Swap Meet.
#9 raistlinrox Mar 26, 2005 10:49:26	There are many ways around this. The first is simply not to take arcane focus (called enhanced specialization in the DLCS, renamed and revised in Towers of High Sorcery) and therefore not concern yourself with prohibited schools. The next is not to take Abjuration as a prohibited school. You're not required to do so - in fact, a Red Robe and a Black Robe can each take the other's schools as prohibited schools and leave Abjuration alone, assuming they don't mind giving up Conjuration or Evocation. Cheers, Cam I thought you had to take your prohibited schools from the other Order's specializations (with the exception to Divination of course), so conjuration and evocation wouldn't be possible (unless I'm reading something wrong, which I might be doing)
#10 cam_banks Mar 26, 2005 12:35:31	I thought you had to take your prohibited schools from the other Order's specializations (with the exception to Divination of course), so conjuration and evocation wouldn't be possible (unless I'm reading something wrong, which I might be doing) This is one of the other minor tweaks made to the class in ToHS. The only time you're forced to choose a school from another Order's favored schools is when you give up a school by taking an arcane focus in an existing specialization. Cheers, Cam
#11 raistlinrox Mar 26, 2005 23:48:55	So as a 1st level specialist, they may choose any 2 schools? I didn't catch that, sweet.
#12 daedavias_dup Mar 27, 2005 9:06:12	So as a 1st level specialist, they may choose any 2 schools? I didn't catch that, sweet. It makes sense too, since hardly any of the wizards should know what robe color they will be receiving after their test. Of course, a black robe Abjurer would just be silly.
#13 amethal Mar 28, 2005 8:24:01	It makes sense too, since hardly any of the wizards should know what robe color they will be receiving after their test. Of course, a black robe Abjurer would just be silly. Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated! I must admit I rather like the idea per the DLCS where the lawful good enchanter (who has dedicated his career so far to peacefully putting opponents to sleep and temporarily persuading enemies to see it from his point of view in order to avoid bloodshed) finally passes the test and is told congratulations, he's just joined the Black Robes. Its almost as nice as imagining what happens to specialist evokers who pass the test .......
#14 true_blue Mar 28, 2005 13:02:33	I actually dont see how any specialist couldnt be of any robe. I would think that the Black Robes have had a few Abjurers. I'm sure that the White Robes have had Enchanters like what you said, that use peaceful means and such. I'm sure either one has had a few people who just loved Illusions, but used them either for real evil or to do nice things for people(like birthday parties, etc.. I dunno =p). Anyways, I by no means think that what school you specialize in should determine what Robe or alignment you end up having to be. I've had a few Evocationers who were Black Robes in my party before. It wouldnt have bothered me if one was an Illusionist, Abjurer, etc. The main thing I limit the person on is they can't get the "Enhanced Specialization" unless the school is a favored school for that Robe. But seeing as I can't get anyone to actually take the ability no matter how much I try to convince them, it hasn't really ever came up.