The longer-lived races may show some reluctance to accept deities once again, especially after they left the world not once, but twice.
Many mortals don't even remember a time with gods. Those who do may curse the gods for "abandoning" them to the dragon overlords.
And while some ambient spellcasters may undergo an epiphany, many won't and will continue using ambient magic.
So yeah, there has been some focus on the gods, but there are many still who are done with them.
So you've got the sorcerers, but they are largely just wizards only without the powerful, esoteric and mysterious WoHS. You have the mystics, but they don't have the prophecy and the power of their dieties.
So what to do with the mystics? That's something we will have to figure out yet. Thus the question is, what can mystics do that clerics cannot (besides not having a god) and what can a sorcerer do that a wizard cannot (besides not being bound to the WoHS?)
Frankly, I think the sorcerers should embrace the freaky. Renegade magic, dragon mage magic, channeling, demonology, dangerous artifacts and so forth. All the mad cackling chaotic magic... because magic which is predictable and ordered is easily contained by the Order of the Black Robes. With that "ambient magic" isn't going to cut it for developing interest.
For mystics false cults (The Seekers, the Last Disciples of Takhisis), and various extreme humanistic philosophies (since this is the power of the heart after all). The Sunrisers for example would be excellent patrons of Mysticism. For this I am more dissapointed with the game designers and novel writers not dealing more with the fact that people simply don't need the clerics for battle and healing magic. Obviously there has to be a religious revolution emphasizing the other things people get out of religion besides cheap and reliable health care on Krynn.
For example, it seems strange that clerics are welcomed so quickly and easily into Ansalonian society without opposition from atheist groups. I would imagine there would be large groups of Solamnic Knights, through the revised Measure, who would say "thanks but no thanks, we've had enough of your fickleness". Perhaps a cleric's attempt at offering healing magic to a village might be rebuffed with a "thanks but we've got our mystics now and they stayed with us through the thick and thin, while you didn't".
Sorry for the rant.
DL will always take top spot in my heart it's just hard to see such great promise being flushed down the toilet like a child putting the toilet paper in the bowl while leaving it attached to the rolloer and pulling the lever.
Atheists can't really exist unless your delusional. There are gods in Ansalom. That's a fact.
The real question is who are possessed of humanistic hubris.
Pride that they can do without Gods.
Raistlin is the first of these individuals and as such we actually have a bunch of material about their lack.
Ditto the entire 5th Age.
The real question is though...
Why would someone disregard such an amazingly useful source of power?
Cheers,
Cam
So what to do with the mystics? That's something we will have to figure out yet. Thus the question is, what can mystics do that clerics cannot (besides not having a god) and what can a sorcerer do that a wizard cannot (besides not being bound to the WoHS?)
Mystics do have access to some domains that clerics do not. However, I don't think you're looking for a game mechanics answer here.
Think of it in terms of roles. There might be a time when a sorcerer or mystic is preferred to a wizard or cleric. Some people might fear godly spellcasters, while they would be more likely to trust the "everyman" magic of sorcerers and mystics.
Frankly, I think the sorcerers should embrace the freaky. Renegade magic, dragon mage magic, channeling, demonology, dangerous artifacts and so forth.
I wouldn't say "freaky" so much as I would say "different paths to magical power". Sorcerers do have the option of taking routes to power that the Orders probably wouldn't follow. So that opens up a lot of avenues there.
I would imagine there would be large groups of Solamnic Knights, through the revised Measure, who would say "thanks but no thanks, we've had enough of your fickleness".
Even during the early Age of Mortals, when the knighthood practiced mysticism, the Knights of Solamnia still revered Kiri-Jolith. So it was easy for them to switch to clerical magic.
That being said, I can see some of the younger Knights of Solamnia not embracing clerical magic and remaining mystics.
Perhaps a cleric's attempt at offering healing magic to a village might be rebuffed with a "thanks but we've got our mystics now and they stayed with us through the thick and thin, while you didn't".
Right. Also consider longer-lived races who have seen the gods leave not once, but twice. ;)
Some go back to be what they once were, some don't and some can't (e. g. a cleric who lost faith and sinned in the eyes of his gods and now fears the god's retribution).
Mystics do have access to some domains that clerics do not. However, I don't think you're looking for a game mechanics answer here.
Not really no, but this is a very important nonetheless. In many ways, mystics have it a lot easier than sorcerers do in defining their identity. While clerics represent their god's doctrines and dogmas, with clerical dress and specific rituals.
Mystics on the other hand embody (in a Jungian way) the domains that they represent. For example, a plains barbarian with the trickster domain is Whiskey Jack or Coyote. They are essentially "hero gods" in of themselves, a personal apotheosis. I have full confidence that this idea will have to take root, simply because it is the only way I can see of seperating mystics and clerics in any meaningful way.
What bothers me more, in terms of mystics or clerics, is that there doesn't seem to be any account as to how this has changed. It seems over and over we have clerics who are embracing the gods due to the power they give them, even in the 5th Age. Why bother to serve a god if all you want is power? This question simply isn't being asked. This is a shame, because if it was asked, the wonder and mystery would be returned to the Holy Order of the Stars... something which hasn't been there since the early stages of the War of the Lance. The answer thus has to be a transcendant and religious one, not a pragmatic one as it is in the Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk.
Think of it in terms of roles. There might be a time when a sorcerer or mystic is preferred to a wizard or cleric. Some people might fear godly spellcasters, while they would be more likely to trust the "everyman" magic of sorcerers and mystics.
But then the need for mystics and clerics evaporate as soon as you create a personable, "down to earth" wizard or cleric. It isn't like we haven't seen them before in Dragonlance.
I fear this attitude is really limiting mystics and sorcerers as being the default when you want to apply for specific prestige classes (ie. mystic theurge) rather than having an identity in and of themselves. They seem to be morphing into the equivalent of clerics in the PHB who don't need to serve a god. If this is the case, then you can't blame people for being enthusiastic about them as either PC's, NPC's or novel characters.
I wouldn't say "freaky" so much as I would say "different paths to magical power". Sorcerers do have the option of taking routes to power that the Orders probably wouldn't follow. So that opens up a lot of avenues there.
It certainly does. Sorcerers will need to be defined by their feats and prestige classes if we want them to step out of the shadows of the Wizards of High Sorcery. What is more however, is that it cannot be as predictable and measured as High Sorcery is. The magic of wizards is simply a matter of learning the secrets and casting the spells.
Sorcery I imagine involves embracing magical power directly, but in much more unhealthy ways. It is explosive, barely contained magic... due to the simple fact that its being reversed engineered from alternate power sources.
Dragon magic and other elemental magics were the first step in the 5th Age (as Dragons are elemental creatures). Now I expect to see branching into demonology, Fey and nature magic (such as the Cha'asi), runic magic, fetishism and sympathy magic and so forth.
Right. Also consider longer-lived races who have seen the gods leave not once, but twice. ;)
So what's the religious answer to why one should follow the Gods? How are the gods still relevant to a post-mysticism world? As far as I can see, the only one who's answered that question thus far is Chemosh.
Why bother to serve a god if all you want is power?
Ah, but that's not the entirety of why a person becomes a cleric or a mystic. In both cases, they are people who seek a higher level of spiritual fulfillment. Clerics look outward while mystics look within.
I fear this attitude is really limiting mystics and sorcerers as being the default when you want to apply for specific prestige classes (ie. mystic theurge) rather than having an identity in and of themselves. They seem to be morphing into the equivalent of clerics in the PHB who don't need to serve a god. If this is the case, then you can't blame people for being enthusiastic about them as either PC's, NPC's or novel characters.
I think there is a certain tendency to look at sorcerers and mystics in this fashion. The key thing to ask is what the identity of sorcerers and mystics are at their basic, key level. Mystics are easier, as they are the ones who look within themselves for spiritual enlightenment. Sorcerers, on the other hand, have some hefty competition.
It certainly does. Sorcerers will need to be defined by their feats and prestige classes if we want them to step out of the shadows of the Wizards of High Sorcery.
Should that be the case, though?
In Dragonlance, the WoHS prestige class is pretty much required for those who play wizards. While not 100% true, wizards and WoHS walk hand-in-hand.
This really isn't the case for sorcerers. They can adopt any number of roles, none of which are really tied to one another. The thing is, though, sorcerers now come across as any other spellcaster from any other setting.
What differentiates a DL sorcerer from a Forgotten Realms sorcerer? Perhaps some flavor text, and some PrCs, but otherwise they are identical.
The SAGA rules on magic at least gave DL's sorcerers some flavor, something that has been lost in the current edition. I will say that the Academy Sorcerer goes a long way to recapturing some of this flavor, but it is a PrC that isn't as widespread in its knowledge, especially after the fall of the Academy of Sorcery.
So what's the religious answer to why one should follow the Gods? How are the gods still relevant to a post-mysticism world? As far as I can see, the only one who's answered that question thus far is Chemosh.
That's a question that many of Krynn's mortals are asking. How are the gods relevant?
For some, they look to the gods for spiritual guidance. Some people feel better knowing that there are gods to guide them and to watch after them. It's a "big brother" scenario.
Yet for many, they don't need the gods. Some don't need spiritual guidance at all, while others look within themselves for the answers they seek.
I think the point of the Age of Mortals is that the gods aren't necessary, and that mortals have alternatives to following the ways of the gods.
"Without gods, your world was a little piece of hell on Earth with the Dragon Overlords. They're gone, now worship us or return to them."
You can see this as a kind of conduit between the person and ambient divine energy on a broader scale. The person isn't making the magic on his or her own, but that deeper reservoir of power is connected to the greater whole of ambient magic on Krynn. Most people cannot access this inner source, and those with the deepest conviction are usually actually the kind of people who become clerics. When Chaos was freed from the Graygem, the energies of his release swung the power of ambient magic into reach of mortals, and together with the absence of the gods who would normally respond to such faith the first mystics appeared.
So, it's very possible for there to be a cult of New Seekers, or the Faithful of Chaos, or the Deep And Abiding Disciples of the Kender Spoon of Turning. They just have to really believe what they're talking about, or the magic won't come.
Cheers,
Cam
Ah, but that's not the entirety of why a person becomes a cleric or a mystic. In both cases, they are people who seek a higher level of spiritual fulfillment. Clerics look outward while mystics look within.
That is true, but my point was that the looking outwards isn't really being explored. Perhaps this will get some coverage in the Holy Orders of the Stars book, though it might be too busy dealing with nuts and bolts of liturgy, organization and creeds to deal metaphysical questions.
[rant] Why does WotC insist on calling those little blurbs about beliefs dogma? They are obviously creeds (declarations of faith) meant to be recited. [/rant]
This is really a question that has to be asked of anyone who is playing a cleric character. What answers, looking outside himself, does a cleric hope to gain. For this I think, Hinduism would probably be an excellent guide. We might also consider how one could expand the dieties into being more than just a dominion over a particular subject, and more about how the portfolio illuminates the proper way to live.
The key thing to ask is what the identity of sorcerers and mystics are at their basic, key level. Mystics are easier, as they are the ones who look within themselves for spiritual enlightenment. Sorcerers, on the other hand, have some hefty competition.
I completely agree here, and it should be noted that accomplished mystics who gain that spiritual enlightenment become something that is human and yet more than that. It is divine power that springs from yourself which makes you an beastmaster, a trickster, a healer, a warrior, or whatever. Much cooler than the way the 5th Age handled mysticism, IMO, which was largely renamed clerics and druids.
The SAGA rules on magic at least gave DL's sorcerers some flavor, something that has been lost in the current edition. I will say that the Academy Sorcerer goes a long way to recapturing some of this flavor, but it is a PrC that isn't as widespread in its knowledge, especially after the fall of the Academy of Sorcery.
See, I disagree with this. SAGA sorcery wasn't a distinct form of magic the way that spellfire, psionics, or even bardic music. Heck, it isn't even as distinct as sorcery derived from bloodlines (the default in the PHB.) While the mechanics of casting spells was different, the thematic approach to magic was exactly the same. You learned it in a school, you studied it, you practiced it, you mastered it. You wore robes and pointy hats. You categorized and subcategorized the types of magic that you cast.
It is no wonder then that with the return of the Wizards of High Sorcery, the SAGA sorcerer is feeling like it doesn't have a niche of its own. True, WotC's insistance that DL use the PHB sorcerer exacerbates the problem, but it would have been a problem regardless.
So we know that sorcery is the avenue of power closed to the Wizards of High Sorcery. Why are those avenues closed. What secrets belong to the wizards of High Sorcery alone? For example, in the 5th Age, sorcerers could not cast necromancy. They were largely elemental wizards, drawing upon raw power to shape and cast it.
Should we distinguish sorcerers and wizards by making black wizards more subtle, with enchantment and necromancy? Can only white wizards draw upon the powerful magics of protection, while only the red robes are the masters of illusion?
Can Wizards use demons for power? Channel off the magic of dragons and other elemental creatures?
Clearly a seperation of powers is required in order to make them distinct, the same way there is a seperation between the powers of wizards and psionicists. We do not have a distinct semi-race (bloodlines) to define the sorcerers themselves, so we must do it by abilities. The first thing we have to do then, is to decide what wizards cannot do, then allow the sorcerers to fill the gap.
For some, they look to the gods for spiritual guidance. Some people feel better knowing that there are gods to guide them and to watch after them. It's a "big brother" scenario.
Well, certainly that is the way things are being presented in Dragonlance. A powerful diety to back you up. However, that is certainly not the culmination of religious experience. To the devout, it usually isn't really the point. Especially since in many religious traditions there is the conceit that faith gives you power, but it is not power that look after your own security and self interest. For many beleivers you are called on to suffer and sacrifice. You are called on to struggle, and you are called on to make yourself better than you are. As we all know as well from the reading of the original chronicles (if your religious education lacking in other places) you are also called on to question.
Not exactly the experience of being nurtured and guided as you'd expect from a big brother. ;)
The problem mystics have is that looking within their own hearts won't lead them to mysticism unless they already have something to build on. A person doesn't just wake up one morning, focus inwardly and find spells sitting in the middle of his being. He has to have a spiritual framework, something to believe in, and this in turn leads to a focus not on an external deity but an alignment within himself to that belief. It is then, when the person really feels a connection to that belief, that he can reach within himself to supply that belief with actual power from the so-called divine spark.
I'm sure that a mystic requires wisdom and charisma (strength of will) in order to push himself towards self-transcendence. Karl Rahner actually might be an excellent theologian to consult on the philosophy required for a successful mystic actually. He always though it was problematic to approach theology from the perspective of God and Dogma rather than from the human level. He believed you should start from the human and you will encounter the divine, while if you start from the other way, you will simply believe things without that encounter with the divine that is so important.
You can see this as a kind of conduit between the person and ambient divine energy on a broader scale.
The problem is, this really sucks the mystery out of mysticism. ;) Now I don't mind using the divine to reflect a broader, unspeakable truth... (this is the age of mortals after all). But refering it to an energy that is just floating around to be tapped, as you would an oil reserve isn't going to generate interest in mysticism. Of course, this might reflect our own western approach to everything, even spirituality. ;)
So, it's very possible for there to be a cult of New Seekers, or the Faithful of Chaos, or the Deep And Abiding Disciples of the Kender Spoon of Turning. They just have to really believe what they're talking about, or the magic won't come.
I don't think it is just based on strength of belief. It has to be based, I think, on something which strikes a chord of mystical truth and divine wisdom... or else it will turn very quickly to the silly. The first two I would encourage, the faithful of the Kender Spoon of Turning though.... only as one part of a very syncretistic and broader kender spirituality.
I don't think it is just based on strength of belief. It has to be based, I think, on something which strikes a chord of mystical truth and divine wisdom... or else it will turn very quickly to the silly. The first two I would encourage, the faithful of the Kender Spoon of Turning though.... only as one part of a very syncretistic and broader kender spirituality.
On this end I'm less of the same mind. It implies there's power to insanity and also that the "proof" of the gods is less important than the mortals themselves.
Poor Burrtassle Hotfoot, my first kender character, believes that his Spoon is divine after a conk on the head. That the spoon talks to him in his commune and auguries all may be part of his delusions but his power is real and so is his philosophy
what makes it less viable to the Clerics whose sole claim to power used to be the ability to work miracles?
what makes it less viable to the Clerics whose sole claim to power used to be the ability to work miracles?
Exactly. No matter how silly it seems, if it really sings true to the individual, it should be enough to allow the use of mysticism. Of course, that person might not have much Wisdom, so the spells he can cast might not be that effective, but the gist is there.
The Seekers had no gods at all, even though they were an organized faith. Or rather, they had gods, they just didn't know what they looked like, where they were, or what they would do with them once they found them. A bizarre approach to religion, but one that worked very well when the gods weren't actually around to dispel the falsehood.
Cheers,
Cam
Atheists can't really exist unless your delusional. There are gods in Ansalom. That's a fact.
It's entirely reasonable, however, to believe that they are not worthy of worship as gods, and instead simply think of them as extremely powerful extraplanar creatures, which is functionally equivalent to atheism.
Think of it in terms of the story of the 5 blind men telling you about what an elephant is. They all are essentially right, but fail to see the whole picture. This is why there is a Holy Order of the Stars and 21 gods, granting many perspectives on the one divine reality.
In the Age of Mortals, there is a profound shift in that we no longer need the intermediaries (the gods) in order to find that divine truth. You can instead find it through spiritual effort, and commune with transcendant reality yourself. This I think would make the mystic much more interesting and profound than simple religious relativism, and also accord them a little bit of respect which otherwise might be lacking. The mystic personalizes a particular platonic form. A shimmering insight into a very limited, but very deep and profound truth. A person with the animal domain for example, is a manifestation of nature made human. A person with the trickster domain a manifestation of deceit. A person with the healing domain a manifestation of compassion.
So that is why I think that mystics should have something to say to the Krynnish world at large.
As for the Seekers, I like the way Cam is presenting them very much. :D
Any comments?
Though its in no way reflective of canon. I like the Sorcery=Dark Side of the Force theme of Wizard's conclave.
Sorcery is the end of the world! Fear it!
Though its in no way reflective of canon. I like the Sorcery=Dark Side of the Force theme of Wizard's conclave.
Sorcery is the end of the world! Fear it!
I like that theme from the perspective of a wizard, but not as the hard-and-heavy rule.
Of course, that's part of their appeal - trying to overcome anti-sorcerer bias.
Though its in no way reflective of canon. I like the Sorcery=Dark Side of the Force theme of Wizard's conclave.
Personally, I prefer the black robes as the Dark Side of the Force.
Oh they exist alright. And they are nothing but trouble. It is their divinity that is in question. They are not divine; they are instead, demonstrably, a menace.
Full of all the petty jealousies and flaws that are among the worst qualities in humanity. They are, to the core, tragically flawed.
Personally, I rather think that a group of cultists of wildly divergent perspectives and backgrounds on Krynn might come to the sane and, in my opinion, correct conclusion that the real problem with Krynn, from the perspective of mortals, is The Gods.
Not the evil ones, not the neutral ones and not the good ones.
The problems is the gods: all of them.
Never mind not worshipping them; I could see both good and evil rational men agreeing that it was clear that the gods have long ago since outlived their usefulness and that it is the gods, not men, who are to blame for most of the ills of the world. And I think they'd be right.
Thy children have judged Ye and found you...wanting.
In short, it is time to get rid of ALL of the gods ...permanently. Whether they want to go, or not.
If one mad mage could take a good run at it - surely an organized group might accomplish more?
Given what the gods have done to Krynn, they probably don't deserve much better treatment.
If balance is what is needed - here's a thought: None is just as balanced as five or six among each alignment.
Age of Mortals, indeed.
Of course the thought of commit deicide probably runs into the same stumbling block on why collective the same thing could not had been done with the Dragon Overlords in that regard. Frankly most violent rejection against the deities will likely run into several issues on acheiving the proper method of dispatching them. Especially given all the sore issues amongst the deities in recent time. That and such thoughts of deicide certainly would make the Athars cry tears of joy.
If any a group or organisation that is appropriate to Krynn in the Age of Mortals, Athars would be it.
Oh they exist alright. And they are nothing but trouble. It is their divinity that is in question. They are not divine; they are instead, demonstrably, a menace.
Full of all the petty jealousies and flaws that are among the worst qualities in humanity. They are, to the core, tragically flawed.
That's pretty much how I'm running the Seekers. The Seekers I imagine, don't view the Krynnish dieties as gods for the simple reason that they can conceive of something greater. The Krynnish dieties dropped a flaming mountain and then buggered off. The Seekers then went searching for new gods, coming up with theological and philosophical ideas about what "true gods" must look like.
I imagine, after the gods return, many saw them as simply being ultra-powerful humans. Masters to be served rather than paths to enlightenment. Immortal creatures whose benevolence you cultivate so you don't get crushed underfoot. In other words, more demons than gods.
In short, it is time to get rid of ALL of the gods ...permanently. Whether they want to go, or not.
If one mad mage could take a good run at it - surely an organized group might accomplish more?
Given what the gods have done to Krynn, they probably don't deserve much better treatment.
If balance is what is needed - here's a thought: None is just as balanced as five or six among each alignment.
Age of Mortals, indeed.
We've already had a time period without gods, as seen in the early Age of Mortals. If you want to game in a period without gods, this is it.
Besides, to get rid of Dragonlance's deities would be to take away one of the major themes of Dragonlance.
This is the Age of Mortals, mainly due to the fact that there is a choice and there are options. To gain arcane or divine magic, you no longer need the gods.
Sure, the deities have been a bit fickle in their time. At the same time, they are an integral part of the setting. For example, without Chislev around, the dragon overlords were able to distort the very geography of Ansalon.
Frankly, I could see how such a group could be very popular in certain quarters, because of the fickleness of the Gods. After all, ultimately a god was responsible for the dragon overlords themselves.
I am suggesting that it is nigh past time that mortals judged the gods and found them wanting and that an alliance of the dissatisfied - even from those who are wildly divergent in alignment, become passionately consumed by the desire to destroy the gods in punishment for their multitude of sins.
A bona fide sect that unapologetically wants to get rid of the gods permanently. Not sent to a vacation home - but killed.
I would personally love to read a passage in a novel where the incensed god demands how the human dares think herself worthy to judge a god, and in his moment of Great Chastisement of the puny mortal, is then met with grim defiance and a righteous can of cunning whup-ass opened upon the god who then must fleeing in real alarm.
Because in all honesty, the gods of Krynn are collectively deserving of a good spanking.
What do you call Takhsis on the end of a Silvanesti sword?
[b]A good start[/b]
A bona fide sect that unapologetically wants to get rid of the gods permanently. Not sent to a vacation home - but killed.
Hmm...something like the Society of Atheists from Mongoose Publishing's Quintessential Wizard perhaps? Except, that PrC is developed with killing clerics in mind, so it would have to be tooled so that it would also be effective in the slaying of Outsiders (ie, deities).
I am not suggesting the DragonLance novel line write out the gods.
I am suggesting that it is nigh past time that mortals judged the gods and found them wanting and that an alliance of the dissatisfied - even from those who are wildly divergent in alignment, become passionately consumed by the desire to destroy the gods in punishment for their multitude of sins.
A bona fide sect that unapologetically wants to get rid of the gods permanently. Not sent to a vacation home - but killed.
I would personally love to read a passage in a novel where the incensed god demands how the human dares think herself worthy to judge a god, and in his moment of Great Chastisement of the puny mortal, is then met with grim defiance and a righteous can of cunning whup-ass opened upon the god who then must fleeing in real alarm.
Because in all honesty, the gods of Krynn are collectively deserving of a good spanking.
What do you call Takhsis on the end of a Silvanesti sword?
[b]A good start[/b]
Largely the problem is the gods, even the evil ones, are so damn differential to the mortals, how exactly can you write a scene and not want the mortals smote like the idiots they are?
Seriously?
paladine: I'm going to die for you despite you rejecting me.
Mishkhale: Want some free healing?
Solinari: Here, have some magic.
Branchala: Have some nice songs and stuff.
Majere: pillow?
Mortals: Grrr...those damned gods! Hate them all!
paladine: I'm going to die for you despite you rejecting me.
Actually you didn't die. You only became mortal to punish Takhisis not to benefit Krynn or anything noble like this. That act by itself is rather spiteful really.
Mishkhale: Want some free healing?
No thanks, we got our mystics in whom we can rely on and believe in, even through the dark times when the dragon overlords oppressed us. You, however, left us not once but twice
Solinari: Here, have some magic.
No thank you! I don't want to die if I step out of line. I don't want my use of magic curtailed by your arbritary sense of morality. In short I don't want to be your cleric to use magic.
Branchala: Have some nice songs and stuff.
No thanks, my songs are better because when I sing, people get healed.
Majere: pillow?
Ummm....
Athar: Stop your worship of the gods and realise the truth! What truth? There are no gods.
paladine: I'm going to die for you despite you rejecting me.
Mishkhale: Want some free healing?
Solinari: Here, have some magic.
Branchala: Have some nice songs and stuff.
Majere: pillow?
In Harmony:Here - have some HOT FLAMING METEOR
In Harmony:Here - have some HOT FLAMING METEOR
Actually, honestly, that always did bug me. With how repressive the Kingpriest was, you'd think that someone would be glad about the Cataclysm.
I am not suggesting the DragonLance novel line write out the gods.
I am suggesting that it is nigh past time that mortals judged the gods and found them wanting and that an alliance of the dissatisfied - even from those who are wildly divergent in alignment, become passionately consumed by the desire to destroy the gods in punishment for their multitude of sins.
The gods of Krynn are laughable as "divine beings" worthy of respect, let alone worship. They wouldn't even make worthy parents let alone gods guiding the footsteps of devoted followers. Imagine if your dad told you that since the bully's dad down the street got the electric chair now he was going to have to kill himself to "maintain the balance." Idiotic.
The gods are weak, have a dimmer perception of reality than mortals themselves, and are regularly duped by beings with lifespans billions of years shorter than them. They even lost their own world! That's a first. The "gods" of Krynn are wanting all right, and a certain group of mortals in my campaign have realized that anything seeking worship short of the High God is a deceiver and should be put down. We're having a lot of fun with that.
Actually, honestly, that always did bug me. With how repressive the Kingpriest was, you'd think that someone would be glad about the Cataclysm.
That would be the minotaurs. ;)
The "gods" of Krynn are wanting all right, and a certain group of mortals in my campaign have realized that anything seeking worship short of the High God is a deceiver and should be put down. We're having a lot of fun with that.
Sounds like you have a familiarity with St. Augustine's City of God.
iconconclastic polytheistsIs that not in every religion at Krynn!
In the Age of Mortals, ideology will become more prominent, and ideology can be as potentially dangerous as religion. Its called the other edge of the extreme.
Interesting times ahead for Krynn.
Is that not in every religion at Krynn!
They are polytheists yes, but to be iconoclast you have to be against representing the divine through images and works of art.
Last I checked, the dieties of Krynn weren't opposed to that.
Why would someone disregard such an amazingly useful source of power?
Because they don't want to rely on something that may just disappear again like it already has twice.
Because they don't want to rely on something that may just disappear again like it already has twice.
Yes, cause the Power of the Heart served them SOOOOo well against the Dragon overlords.
Like it or not, the Gods defeated the Dragoverlords in a month
Yes, cause the Power of the Heart served them SOOOOo well against the Dragon overlords.
Like it or not, the Gods defeated the Dragoverlords in a month
So? The Gods are unreliabe. They disappear on the mortals constantly
and then expect them to forgive and forget when they come back again.
I'm sure there are some people on Krynn that are just a bit bitter about that.