Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Agathokles 01-06-08, 02:07 PM	Here is a Timeline of Traladara, from 1000 BC to 1000 AC. It is widely based on the Traladaran Timeline by Zendrolion from the Italian MMB (I've translated it, shortening some parts and removing some elements that did not fit with my view), plus Havard's Dymrak materials, Steven Wilson's Karameikan Timeline ( http://pandius.com/sieltime.html ) and Aaron Nowack's list of Darokin Kings. This timeline differs widely from the one by Francesco Defferrari -- it tells a different version of Traladara's history in several ways. First, in this version there's almost never a "Kingdom of Traladara". Traladara is always divided in three major zones of influence: Halag -- which controls the western coasts and some inland communities, up to Koriszegy's lands; Marilenev, which controls the eastern coast (basically the current fiefs from Sulescu to Dmitrov); and the north, which is divided in several different principalities, of which Halavos (Kelvin) and Vaion (Penhaligon) are the most important. Second, the major clans emerge during the centuries, rather than being the heirs of the original clans. Third, I've tried to take Darokin's and Minrothad's history into account as much as possible -- the Traladaran Wars and several other events have been linked with the events in the neighbouring nations to a deeper extent. Most of this is due to long and fruitful discussions with Atila (Wilhelm here on the MMB) on the history of the City States of the Gulf of Hule and the general state of affairs in the KW around 450 AC. And without further ado, here is the... History of Karameikos This article covers the history of Traladara and Karameikos in the last two millennia, that is from the Beastman invasion to the present time of the Gazetteer. The Beastman Invasion Before BC 1000, the Traldar people, a nation of southern Neathar descent led by a small Nithian aristocracy, had settled in the lands now know as Traladara, which had previously been the northern frontier of the Taymor kingdoms. A few Taymor survivors had been absorbed into the Traldar colonies. However, due to unfavorable climatic conditions, the colonization attempt had mostly failed. The Nithian aristocracy had been absorbed into the larger Neathar population, leaving traces of its presence in the culture of the few surviving villages. The Hutaakans, jackal-like humanoids of Nithian culture, had taken control of the Traldar, providing training in agriculture, bronze working and other vital crafts in return for labor and goods, slowly allowing the Traldar to build a network of small city-states. BC 1200 Reign of Tahrek the Bright, lord of Krakatos and owner of the Diadem of the Sun. Tahrek's descendants will become the Torenescu clan. [DMSK] BC 1050 Nithian wizards create the Gnolls. [GAZ10] BC 1000 Beastman invasion (BC 1000-992): the Gnolls escape Nithia and invade the Traldar lands, conquering the western half of modern Karameikos up to the Volaga and most of modern Darokin. [GAZ1, HW] Hutaakans retreat to the Valley of Hutaaka. King Milen leads a migration towards Davania rather than fighting the Gnolls. [HW, HW3] Part of the Traldar population is moved to the Hollow World by the Immortals. [HW] Some western Traldar clans flee west through the Five Shires and the lands of the Atruaghin Clans, and settle in Sind, where they become known as the Dom. King Halav of Lavv, Queen Petra of Krakatos and the Hutaakan-trained wizard Zirchev guide a coalition of eastern Traldar city-states in the war against the Gnolls. [GAZ1] Elsewhere, King Blystar III of Rockhome defeats the Goblinoids of the Broken Lands. [GAZ10] Other Orcish tribes found the Kingdom of Othrong in the territory of the modern Five Shires. [GAZ8] [B]BC 992 Battle of Volaga River: Halav defeats the Beastman king Flahgr. He dies in the battle, but is raised by Queen Petra. [GAZ1, WotI] The Dark Ages After the rout of the Gnollish horde, the Traldar lands are left almost devoid of population, and revert quickly to wildernesses. A number of Antalian tribes, related to the Yevo of western Brun and the Vatski and Viaskoda of Norwold, take part in the battles for control of the Hin lands, but are defeated by Loktal Ironshield. These Vandars move into lightly populated lands between the rivers Achelos and Volaga and settle there, speeding the transformation of the Traldar people into the Traladarans. The barony of Halag and the kingdom of Krakatos are the major human nations in the area, though Marilenev, Halavos and other city-states rise to power at the end of the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages end with the emergence of a unified Kingdom of Traladara under King Ithron. BC 950 The last Gnolls are driven away from the Traldar lands, but the Traldar population has dropped to 20% of the pre-war level. [GAZ1] BC 938 Fall of the Kingdom of Hindon at the hands of the Orcs. [GAZ8] The Vandar tribes migrate from central Darokin to the Five Shires. BC 933 The Vandars, northern raiders that had taken part in the Hindon wars, invade the western Traldar lands. Due to the massive damages wrought by the Gnolls in that area, they find no opposition. More Vandar tribes will enter the Traldar lands in the following twenty years. BC 930 Petra becomes Immortal under the patronage of Khoronous. BC 910 Halav becomes Immortal under the patronage of Odin. [WotI] BC 900 First appearance of the Witches of Dymrak, a group of nine Crones of Chaos. BC 875 Zirchev creates the refuge-land of Haven as part of his path to Immortality. He also trains an apprentice, the Seer of Traldar, to whom he entrusts the Eyes of Traldar. [B]BC 870 Zirchev becomes Immortal under the patronage of Ilsundal. [WotI] BC 800 The Traldar population rises, and the Traldar mix with the now sedentary Vandars. Elsewhere, Mealiden Starwatcher leads the Sylvan Elves to the steppes between Nithia and the Streel river, founding the Kingdom of Alfheim and beginning the creation of Canolbarth. [GAZ5] Halag is founded around this time by a Vandar tribe. BC 612 Nob Nar, a Hin adventurer, kills the Vandar baron Ulstagh of Halag. [GAZ8] BC 600 The Dom people return to Traladara after a long exile, but no longer fit with the Traladaran culture. BC 500 The fusion of Vandars and Traldars has brought to a new people, the Traladarans. [GAZ1, HW] Elsewhere, the Empire of Nithia is destroyed by the Immortals. [GAZ2, HW] BC 492 Goblinoid hordes defeated by the Dwarven armies in the Battle of Sardal Pass. Death of Queen Ubdala. [GAZ6] BC 491 Goblinoid hordes fleeing the Sardal Pass take refuge in the Cruth Mountains. [GAZ10] BC 490 Lavv e Krakatos are destroyed by the hordes of the Hobgoblin king Leptar. The goblinoids themselves are decimated by the plague spread by Leptar to weaken the Traladaran cities. BC 488 Traladaran clans chase back the hordes of Leptar and found the town of Halavos near the ruins of Lavv. BC 480 The Goblinoid hordes are pushed back into the mountains and in the Dymrak woods. BC 470 The Kerendas tribe conquers the southern Doulakki city-states. BC 415 Hobgoblin king Leptar becomes Immortal under the patronage of Orcus. BC 308 Trinkla, a young magician, steals the Black Opal Eye from the Isle of Lost Dream while the Seer of Traldar is absent. She flees to western Traladara and becomes known as the Black Seer. BC 276 The Black Seer dies, and the Black Opal Eye is entombed with her. BC 195-147 Traladaran prince (Ban) Ithron unifies the Traladaran clans and takes the title of King of Traladara. [KKoA] BC 162-158 The Doulakki City-State of Salonikos is attacked by King Alevar of Alfheim. The siege of Salonikos is broken by the intervention of a dwarven volunteer corps. BC 100 Gnomes from the Hardanger Range, led by the Hilltopper clan, found the city of Highforge. [GAZ1, KKoA] BC 7 The Thyatian wizard Elyas receives the Fire Opal Eye and becomes the next Seer of Traldar. BC 4 Elyas recovers the Black Opal Eye from the tomb of Trinkla the Black Seer. The Rebirth of Traladara By the end of the millennium, the short-lived unification of Traladara, the arrival of friendly demi-human clans,the defeat of the Orcs in the west and the formation of the Thyatian Empire in the east help Traladara emerge from the Dark Ages. New trade centers rise to greatness along the major rivers. Traladara is soon divided into a number of small principalities called Banates. AC 1 Traladara's population raises, especially in the coastal and riverside areas. Marilenev is the major trade center. Halavos, Lugsid, Zadreth and other towns and villages are found along the rivers Volaga and Shutturga. The elven Callarii clan from Alfheim settles in the Radlebb woods. [GAZ1] AC 3 Elyas, the Seer of Traldar, dies in a struggle with the Witches of Dymrak. The Black Opal Eye is lost. AC 300 A dwarven clan, the Stronghollow, settles in Highforge. [B]AC 301-356 Bogdan Ivanovich, Ban of Marilenev, claims the title of King of Traladara. He manages to bring under his heel several clans, but the kingdom dissolves at Ivanovich's death. [KKoA] AC 400 Thyatian missionary clerics translated the Song of Halav and set it in writing. [GAZ1] This leads to the formation of an organized Church of Traladara. The Church assumes slightly different forms in the three main regions (Halag, Marilenev and the north-east). The church is known as the Church of Traladara only in Marilenev. Elsewhere, it is known as the Church of Halav. AC 410 Minrothaddan merchants bring lycanthropy and vampirism to Traladara. [PC4, GAZ1, GAZ9] At the same time, the descendants of the Taymoran Nosferatu resurface. The Traladaran Wars As the Banates assume a more stable form, Traladara falls under the greedy eyes of the Kings of Darokin, leading to a century of conflicts known as the four Traladaran Wars. While this is a time of strife, it also leads to the modernization of the Traladaran Banates, thanks to the increasing contacts with both Darokin and Thyatis. The Traladaran League emerges as an attempt to form a unified Traladaran nation. AC 412 Corwyn VIII of Darokin reduces the northern Traladaran clans, including those of Lugsid and Vaion, to vassal status. He is killed by assassins sent by the coastal clans with ties with the city-states of New Alphatia and Harbortown. His heir, Corwyn IX, declares war on the lords of Marilenev, Vidrin and Halavos. The lords of Salonikos, Dmitrov, Lumm, Gorenenov and Volaga ally with Marilenev, Vidrin and Halavos to counter the Darokinian egemony. AC 415 The King of Darokin, Corwyn IX, dies in battle against the Traladaran League. His son, Corwyn X, continues the war effort. Harbortown and New Alphatia enter the war on the League's side. AC 417 The First Traladaran War ends with the Peace of Marilenev. Darokin relinquishes all claims on Northern Traladara. Traladaran nobles claim titles styled on the Thyatian and Darokinian model, replacing the old Ban and Zhupa titles. Marilenev, Salonikos and Halavos claim ducal rank, while the other nobles of the Traladaran League take the title of Count or Baron. The old Traladaran titles remain in use in western Traladara. The Monastery on the Hill is founded by the Count of Vaion and dedicated to Halav. AC 436 The Alasiyan warlord Sabir ibn Ibrahim conquers Salonikos, renaming the city Al-Zalenikah. He founds a state, the Imarat al Zalenikah, that will survive for two generations, and will be a centre of learning, specially in astronomy and geometry. AC 443-445 The Silver Purge is unleashed against lycanthropes along the coasts of the Sea of Dread. New Alphatia is almost destroyed in a battle between lycanthropes, humans and elves. Many lycanthropes survive deep in the woods of Traladara. AC 444-450 Religious conflicts within the Church of Traladara and political manipulation by the Harbortown envoys leads to the Second Traladaran War, which pits Halag against Marilenev and Halavos against Vaion. The Hojah, ruling clan of Halag, and several of their allies are forced to flee to the eastern coast of the Gulf of Hule. Seven city-states (Kladanovich, Slagovich, Hojah, Zvornik, Nova Svoga, Zagora and Boyarski) are founded there. [RS] Vaion is home to another heresy, which is uprooted within twenty years by priests from Halavos and Selenica, but survives in the isolated Monastery on the Hill. AC 468 Duke Demara of Halavos unifies several of the northern clans. AC 474 Demara is acknowledged as King of Traladara by the Barons of Volaga and Lugsid and the Count of Vaion. The coastal clans, Marilenev, Dmitrov, Vidrin, and Sulescu, oppose this move, but they obtain only limited support from Harbortown. In the following years, Demara manages to obtain the submission of the ruling clans of Gorenenov, Lumm and Koriszegy. [KKoA] AC 488 King Demara marries the daughter of King Mithras V of Darokin and launches the Third Traladaran War. A combined force of Demara's and Mithras' troops conquer Al-Zalenikah, which is renamed Selenica and added as a duchy to the Kingdom of Darokin. Elsewhere, Hadric Corser found the city of Minrothad over the ruins of New Alphatia. [GAZ9] AC 490 Death of King Demara. Mithras V of Darokin claims the regency of Traladara for his infant grandson Mithras Demaravich. The lords of Lumm, Volaga and Koriszegy rebel against the Darokinian king and form a new Traladaran League with the coastal clans. Mithras V sends as army to quell the rebellion. AC 493 Mithras' army is defeated by the forces of the Traladaran lords in the Fourth Traladaran War. The Traladaran League is confirmed as a permanent institution, led by the Diet of Marilenev, an assembly of the Traladaran nobles. The lord of Koriszegy takes the title of Count, marking its independence from the Banate of Halag. The End of the Darokinian Hegemony The Elfwar and the passage of the Darokinian crown to the Ansimont line mark the end of the hegemonic ambitions of Darokin on Traladara. However, the growing instability of the northern neighbour leads the Traladaran principalities to turn on each other, dissolving the Traladaran League. AC 500 Lycanthropy and vampirism return in the more isolated regions of Traladara. [PC4] Elsewhere, the Red Orc chief, Sitting Drool, becomes supreme chief of the Broken Lands hordes, leading to a twenty years-long war with the Kingdom of Darokin, the Kingdom of Alhambra and the Kingdom of Braejr. [GAZ10] The Empire of Thyatis, meanwhile, is locked in a pitched war against Alphatia in the Alasiyan colonies. [GAZ2] AC 501 Mithras V of Darokin blames ``elven treachery'' for his defeat in Traladara, bringing on the Elfwar right when Corunglain is threatened by Sitting Drool's hordes. AC 503 Mithras V and his grandson Mithras Demaravich are killed by the elves of Alfheim. The Darokinian nobles name Corwyn Ansimont as the new King. AC 504 Corwyn XIII puts an end to the Elfwar. AC 511 The Diet of Marilenev elects the wizard Perrantin as Warlord of the Traladaran League, giving him power to lead an army to help the Flaems of the Highlands in case of a dragon invasion, which never comes. The northern warrior Solveig White-Gold and Perrantin uncover the Shield of Halav, and present it to the Church of Traladara, helping its consolidation. They found the Temple of the Shield and the village of Zadreth [HtH] AC 523 Sitting Drool conquers and sacks Corunglain. AC 525 Corunglain is freed from the orcish hordes, but becomes an independent city-state. AC 527 Sitting Drool is killed by adventurers. AC 534 Charles III, an incompetent ruler, is the new King of Darokin. Due to a mix of incompetence and adverse circumstances causes the next three kings to be reduced to mere figureheads, as the nobles become more and more independent and the merchant houses become the real power in Darokin city. Selenica and Athenos claim their own independence as the Principality of Selenica and the Duchy of Athenos. AC 570 The Hins of the Five Shires found colonies in the Ierendi achipelago. [GAZ4] AC 585 Thyatis occupies the archipelago of Ierendi to use the islands as penal colonies for the Hattian rebels. [GAZ4] AC 596 The Traladaran nosferatu Aden marries Emilia Ansimont, sister and heir to the King of Darokin, and sets in motion a plan to restore royal power in Darokin. In the following years, he manages to regain the power lost by the inept Ansimont kings, and takes the throne with the name of Aden III. AC 600 The Traladaran League is finally dissolved due to dissension between the clans and the disappearance of the Darokin threat. In Vaion, the local lord, a descendant of Demara's sister, claims the title of King of Vaion, which is mostly ignored by the other nobles. The Ban of Halag assumes the title of Duke, following most other Traladaran nobles. In Ierendi, former Hattian rebel, pirate, and convict Mad Creeg leads a successful rebellion against the Empire of Thyatis. [GAZ4] AC 612 The failure of the Traladaran League leaves the Duchy of Marilenev deprived of much of its political power. The trade guilds, led by the Radu family, oust Duke Alexandr Marilenev and replace the ducal government with an oligarchic republic. AC 657 The undead nature of Aden III is revealed by spies from the House of Corun, and the nosferatu king is forced to flee. Without Aden's energic rule, the Kingdom of Darokin dissolves. AC 658 The lords of House Corun claim the title of Duke of Corunglain. In the following years, the northern and western regions of Darokin follow suit, claiming independence. The Vampire Wars Increasing Entropic cult activities build over the rivalries among the clans and the rise of religious fanatism. Several clans are accused of harboring Entropic cultists or vampires, and another century of war sweeps away much of the progresses brought on by the Traladaran League. AC 675 The vampire-king psychosis and the political chaos of Darokin reach Traladara as well. A numer of "holy wars", more or less justified, are fought between the Traladaran nobles during the course of the following fifty years, instigated by Orcus in the form of a devil swine. AC 681 The town council of Marilenev finances the construction of the city walls. AC 691 Foundation of the Minrothad Guilds. [GAZ9] AC 700 Zemiros Sulescu becomes a Nosferatu. [GAZ1] By this time, the Monastery on the Hill is home to an obscure Entropic order devoted to Orcus, Leptar and other Fiends. AC 720 Count Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany, lord of Lumm and Gorenenov, becomes the nosferatu known as the Black Count of the Moor. The clashes between Traladaran lords become more violent, and Gorenenov, Lumm, Vaion, Volaga and Halavos are destroyed in the following decade. AC 723 The Kingdom of Darokin is formally dissolved with the death of the last king, Santhral. A dozen of duchies, baronies, and city-states war over the former territory of Darokin. AC 725 Queen Elendorath of Vaion is defeated and killed by the Prince of Selenica. Her goblinoid armies disperse in the mountains. The Monastery on the Hill is razed, but a few priests survive. AC 728 Morphail, defeated by an alliance including Marilenev, Vidrin and Selenica, flees to Glantri with his people. [GAZ3] AC 750 Favorable policies by the town council of Marilenev and the threat of war cause a large part of the rural population of Marilenev to settle within the walls of the city-state. AC 783 Castle Koriszegy is struck by a curse that destroys the entire clan, except for the Count, who becomes a mad vampire. The territory around the castle quickly becomes a wilderness, as the local Traladarans flee to Halag. [KKoA] The Modern Age The IX century is comparatively quiet. Only the City-State of Marilenev, the Duchy of Halag, and the Principality of Selenica survive mostly unscathed. However, the noble houses of Selenica are severely reduced in power, and the merchant houses take control of the city. North-eastern Traladara suffered the largest damage, and no major towns survive. AC 802 Year of Infamy in the Highlands. [GAZ3] Some Dwarven survivors settle in Marilenev. AC 810 Blynos Kivinivich, a Traladaran priest, writes "My journey: story of a country preacher", a collection of parables. [HtH] AC 813 The mythical Sword of Halav is last seen in the hands of the Duke of Halag, Uidar the Quick. [DMSK] AC 829 Foundation of the Republic of the Highlands. [GAZ3] AC 830 Blynos Kivinivich, now an elderly priest, writes two more autobiographical tomes in the course of the next five years. [HtH] AC 831 Foundation of the Emirates of Ylaruam. [GAZ2] AC 858 Light of Rad: the Republic of Glantri becomes the Principalities of Glantri. [GAZ3] The Thyatian Conquest and the Birth of Karameikos The dissolution of Darokin leads the Emperors of Thyatis to plan the conquest of Traladara and eastern Darokin. However, the wars with Alphatia absorbed most resources, and the imperial plan never went beyond the occupation of Marilenev and the other major settlements of Traladara. AC 900 The Emperor of Thyatis, Gabrionius IV, sends his legions in Traladara, and installs a governor in Marilenev, which is renamed Specularum. Garrisons are sent to the borderlands, with the goal of setting up spearheads for a campaign against the Darokinian successor states. [DotE, GAZ1, KKoA] Traladara is incorporated in the Empire as an Imperial Province. Thyatian troops invade Lugsid and raze it. A plague in Zadreth force the population to abandon the village and the nearby Temple of the Shield. The survivors settle on the lakeside villages and in Fogor. [HtH] As a reaction, Selenica establishes closer ties with Darokin. AC 927 Foundation of the Republic of Darokin. [GAZ11] AC 960 The Spike Assault brings to the death of Gabrionius V and the rise of Thincol Torion. [DotE] AC 970 Stefan Karameikos III trades the Duchy of Machetos to Emperor Thincol for the Grand Duchy of Traladara and independence. [DotE, GAZ1] AC 971 The Radu, Torenescu and Marilenev clans rise against the new government, but fail. The clan Marilenev is almost destroyed. [GAZ1] AC 972-978 Several lesser Thyatian nobles arrive in Karameikos, offering their fealty to the Duke, and receiving fiefs and titles. [GAZ1] Threshold, Kelvin and Vorloi are founded on the ruins of Lugsid, Halavos and Vidrin, while Ludwig von Hendricks takes control of Halag, renaming it Fort Doom, and builds the Duumtor on the hill that overlooks the city. [B]AC 979 Duke Stefan marries Olivia Prothemian. [GAZ1] AC 980 Birth of Adriana Karameikos. [GAZ1] AC 982 Birth of Justin Karameikos. [GAZ1] AC 986 Birth of Valen Karameikos. [GAZ1] AC 989 Many Traladarans from Halag flee to the Five Shires. Baron Ludwig von Hendriks sends his troops in the Shires, but the Black Eagle is rebuffed by Hin militia. [GAZ8] AC 990-991 Ludwig von Hendriks sends two military expeditions against the Hin, but fails in both attempts. [GAZ8] AC 991 The wizard Krollan, a counsellor of Duke Stefan, is murdered. [DMSK] AC 992 Duke Stefan orders Baron Von Hendricks to put an end to his war with the Five Shires. [GAZ8] AC 993 Elwyn the Ardent founds a temple devoted to the Dark Triad in the hills north-east of Kelvin. AC 996 Baron Desmond Kelvin I dies in a duel with the Ylari ambassador, Mustapha ibn Ibrahim. His son, Desmond II, is confirmed Baron of Kelvin.[GAZ1, GAZ2]
slashnull 01-11-08, 01:50 PM	Great stuff, I like especially the Vampire struggles of the 700's!
Agathokles 01-11-08, 04:36 PM	Thanks. Glad you liked it! GP
Twin Campaigns 01-14-08, 09:05 PM	This is very nice. You have written the history very well. I especially enjoyed the references to other countries, they were very well thought out. Traladara didn't seem isolated from the rest of the world. Could you make a small list of the locales you mention and the places where you have intended them to be? Most of them can be derived from the story, but still a glossary would be useful. Also there are some unfamiliar acronyms in the timeline (DMSK, HtH, DMSG). Or I may just be to tired to figure them out. It's nice to have two compatible and detailed timelines on Karameikos and Darokin. I used the Darokin timeline as a basis for my previous campaign. Perhaps I'll use this next.
sbwilson 01-14-08, 09:21 PM	Good stuff! This is one of the reasons I love Mystara (and the community) - we can take ideas from each other and make it our own without worrying about what is canon and what is not. This is the essence of D&D...not having every little detail described in a sourcebook - it gives us a chance to be creative!
Wilhelm_ 01-15-08, 12:33 AM	Back from the dead, but only briefly, I'll be truly back only in a month or two :) Most of this is due to long and fruitful discussions with Atila (Wilhelm here on the MMB) on the history of the City States of the Gulf of Hule and the general state of affairs in the KW around 450 AC. ;) The barony of Halag and the kingdom of Krakatos are the major human nations in the area But do you think it's best to use "Halag" instead of "Hojah" even before the traladaran migration to the SC? I'm not against doing so, but I think the changing of names may be explained by the marilenevian puppet wanting to mimic some things of Marilenev, even if the change of the title names happened only later (keeping "Ban"). Also, the sc traladarans usually uses the ruling family name or the actual name of the "capitol" city for their city-states and Halag is none of them (assuming that the Halag/Hojah city-state capitol's name is Svoga, which may not be the case), but may be the ruling family name after the Second Traladaran War. :) The lords of Koriszegy, Salonikos, Dmitrov, Lumm, Gorenenov and Volaga ally with Marilenev, Vidrin and Halavos to counter the Darokinian egemony. But is Koriszegy a vassal of Hojah/Halag by this time? If so, why Koriszegy joined the league while Hojah/Halag didn't? AC 450 Religious conflicts within the Church of Traladara and political manipulation by the Harbortown envoys leads to the Second Traladaran War, which pits Halag against Marilenev and Halavos against Vaion. The Hojah, ruling clan of Halag, and several of their allies are forced to flee to the eastern coast of the Gulf of Hule. Seven city-states (Kladanovich, Slagovich, Hojah, Zvornik, Nova Svoga, Zagora and Boyarski) are founded there. [RS] Indeed :) But I still think that, in order to fit this timeline with most of Christian Constantin's work, we would need to set the Halag Revolt/Second Traladaran War in AC 444, as a immediate response to the Silver Purgue at that traladaran city-state, because of it's Hojah ruler's sudden lose of (economic) power. The timely minrothian diplomatic intervention helped to solve the religious problem at Hojah/Halag, shipping the followers of the Church of Halav to the Mule Beach in AC 445, where Kladanovic is founded (for the first time; some time later, it's razed and then again rebuilt as a slagovichi outpost and, after that, it becomes an independent city-state again). "429-445AC": Minrothad's merchants, Sardjik traders and Traldar immigrants introduce lycanthropy in the region. "438-454AC": Traldar migrants arrive in the GoH. The dwarven stronghold of Slago is renamed Slagovich by the new population. Traldar establish new settlements on the western GoH coast, although they are assimilated in the native population. The Olgar clan moves north along the Kizil Alaçan (R. Guadiana) and west along the GE edge. They stop in southern Bulzan. Native Hulean and Bulzan gradually adopt the Olgar Clan's language, custom and faith. A new nation is formed out of this synthesis. (quoted from http://www.pandius.com/htime.html) Thus, the only real chances we would need to make are about Zhan Olgar's history (http://www.pandius.com/levtja.html): He actually arrived in Slagovich in AC 452, not AC 442, and when he arrived at SW Hule, in AC 454, he and his followers travelled only for one to two years, not "six years of a long journey". And everything else works perfectly, especially it's consistence with canon, that says that traladarans arrived at the SC "About 560 years ago" (SCCB), not a generic "about 550 years ago" that may mean anything from 575 to 525 years (I'm assuming that anything between 565 to 555 years may pass as 560 years). AC 450 is, however, a important year for the traladarans (the SC branch, at least), since that's the year where the few colonists stats a small crusade agains the goblinoids of the SW Black Mountains, helping the dwarven stronghold (Slagowarf Clan) / LB outpost agains them (Zhan Olgar left Kladanovic with this crusade, bringing with him some poor peasants, in a classic crusadistic cliché ;) ). And two years after that, they actually take over the settlement, changing the name to Slagovich. The news of the traladaran success at both Kladanovic and Slagovich, the crusade aganst evil gnolls and other goblinoids, and the trade opportunities the minrothian merchants found at the Western Sea, added by the poor administration of the new Halag ruler, triggened a new wave of traladarans lefting "old Svoga" to the SC, allowing the new city-states to be founded at there (Hojah, by a surviving member of the Hojah family; Zvornik; Nova Svoga; Zagora; Boyarski; and Gonica) and making Halag situation even worse (of course Koriszegy and Marilenev are glad to help to worse it even more). :)
Agathokles 01-16-08, 04:42 PM	Thanks for your comments, guys. @Ville: I do have a list of the locations. I'll post it (and possibly a map as well) ASAP. As to the acronyms, I'll dig the reference out of the Italian MMB and post it tomorrow. [done, except the map] @Atila: Halag: there's one thing that has led me to keep Halag: there's a mention of an earlier Baron of Halag (a contemporary of Nob Nar). Thus, I think we should keep Halag has the town's name, though the Banate itself and its ruling family may have changed name (e.g., the Hojah Banate might be a reference to the ruling family, and be changed to the Duchy of Halag in later times, with a possible Banate of Halag in the middle). [As a side note, it is possible (even likely) that Hojah is a Traldar-originated name, and Halag a Vandar one] Koriszegy: I think Koriszegy is the least stable of the vassals of Hojah/Halag -- depending on the waxing or waning strength of the current Hojah/Halag ruler, it drifts between independence and vassaldom. Olgar: Yes, I'll update the timeline. 450 AC is more a general indication than a fixed date. [done] GP
Agathokles 01-16-08, 05:02 PM	Could you make a small list of the locales you mention and the places where you have intended them to be? Most of them can be derived from the story, but still a glossary would be useful. Halavos: Kelvin Volaga: south of Kelvin Lumm, Gorenenov: in the Moor NE of Kelvin (see my map of NE Karameikos on the VoP) Vidrin: Vorloi Zadreth, Lugsid: Lugsid is Threshold, and Zadreth is very near (both from Hail the Heroes) Vaion: near Penhaligon (on the other bank of the river, though) Al Zalenikah, Salonikos: Selenica Marilenev: Specularum Harbortown, New Alphatia: city states of the Minroth and Alphatian humans in current Minrothad Also there are some unfamiliar acronyms in the timeline (DMSK, HtH, DMSG). Or I may just be to tired to figure them out. DMSK: Dungeon Master's Survival Kit HtH: Hail the Heroes DMSG: this seems to be a typo for DMSK. However, this is a book I don't have, so I rely on Zendrolion's work here. I'll ask him and eventually I'll correct the notes. [checked, it's a typo; thanks to Zendrolion for checking it up] GP
Wilhelm_ 01-16-08, 07:28 PM	@Atila: Halag: there's one thing that has led me to keep Halag: there's a mention of an earlier Baron of Halag (a contemporary of Nob Nar). Oh, I see. I'm not against it anyway, I'm just looking for the best way to make the whole thing fits better :) Thus, I think we should keep Halag has the town's name That could be, but then we have the problem, to decide which settlement was the "old" Svoga (since we have at the SC the "new" Svoga). Besides, the modern capitol of the Barony of Halag appearently isn't also named "Halag", but "Town of Fort Doom" instead. though the Banate itself and its ruling family may have changed name (e.g., the Hojah Banate might be a reference to the ruling family, and be changed to the Duchy of Halag in later times, with a possible Banate of Halag in the middle). Yes, it's quite possible, although, OTOH, this means that at some point Halag/Hojah had a Zhupan/Baron instead of a Ban. [As a side note, it is possible (even likely) that Hojah is a Traldar-originated name, and Halag a Vandar one] Yes, it's indeed likely. But if both Hojah and Halag aren't versions of the name "Halav", are they at least related (pehaps Hojah being the traladaran version of the old Vandar name "Halag")? Koriszegy: I think Koriszegy is the least stable of the vassals of Hojah/Halag -- depending on the waxing or waning strength of the current Hojah/Halag ruler, it drifts between independence and vassaldom. Indeed. :) And, in fact, Koriszegy may be the only vassal as well, unless we also include some other small villages around Hojah/Halag's capitol (pehaps one of them is the "old" Svoga?). But I guess that by that time, Hojah/Halag was quite strong (for a traladaran city-state), even defying Marilenev supremacy refusing to joing the traladaran league. I guess that Koriszegy may decided to stay with Hojah/Halag this time, even because it would be able to give little help for the league anyway (but, indeed, after the Second Traladaran War, Koriszegy is probably even stronger than Halag, but never reached the same power Hojah/Halag once had). Olgar: Yes, I'll update the timeline. 450 AC is more a general indication than a fixed date. [done] :)
Agathokles 01-17-08, 01:54 PM	That could be, but then we have the problem, to decide which settlement was the "old" Svoga (since we have at the SC the "new" Svoga). Besides, the modern capitol of the Barony of Halag appearently isn't also named "Halag", but "Town of Fort Doom" instead. For the modern town, yes, it has been renamed to Fort Doom by Ludwig, IIRC. Svoga could well have been one of the vassal towns of Halag, possibly along the southern coast (near Vandevicsny). Yes, it's quite possible, although, OTOH, this means that at some point Halag/Hojah had a Zhupan/Baron instead of a Ban. Indeed, of course the Barons would have aggrandized themselves to Bans at some point in the (long) history of Halag. Yes, it's indeed likely. But if both Hojah and Halag aren't versions of the name "Halav", are they at least related (pehaps Hojah being the traladaran version of the old Vandar name "Halag")? Note that even if Halag is a Vandar name, it does not mean it can't derive from Halav (it can be a mispelling/mispronounciation of some word beginning with Halav, for example). And, in fact, Koriszegy may be the only vassal as well, unless we also include some other small villages around Hojah/Halag's capitol (pehaps one of them is the "old" Svoga?). Exactly, I'd include Svoga and possibly the Ourosco and Moboutka families (or their predecessors in the same area) as vassals of Halag/Hojah. But I guess that by that time, Hojah/Halag was quite strong (for a traladaran city-state), even defying Marilenev supremacy refusing to joing the traladaran league. I guess that Koriszegy may decided to stay with Hojah/Halag this time, even because it would be able to give little help for the league anyway (but, indeed, after the Second Traladaran War, Koriszegy is probably even stronger than Halag, but never reached the same power Hojah/Halag once had). Ok, we can remove Koriszegy from the list. I've postponed Koriszegy's independence to the Fourth Traladaran War. GP
Agathokles 01-18-08, 07:01 PM	Here's the promised map. Zadreth is not shown on the map for distance reasons (it's a few miles to the north-east of Lugsid/Threshold). http://home.dei.polimi.it/agosta/.private/traladara-wars.png
Wilhelm_ 01-19-08, 12:20 PM	Very very nice map, GP. ;) BTW, I think that's a perfect location for "old" Svoga :) Note that even if Halag is a Vandar name, it does not mean it can't derive from Halav (it can be a mispelling/mispronounciation of some word beginning with Halav, for example). And Hojah, a mispelling/mispronounciation of the vandar name :) Exactly, I'd include Svoga and possibly the Ourosco and Moboutka families (or their predecessors in the same area) as vassals of Halag/Hojah. Ok, but where can I read more about then? Are they canon? And did they migrate to the SC as well? :) Ok, we can remove Koriszegy from the list. I've postponed Koriszegy's independence to the Fourth Traladaran War. Yes, it's likely that Koriszegy needed about 50 years from it's "independence" to the point where it had enough power for claim a better noble title :) BTW, does Al-Zalenikah territory also includes the Urt-Ust Valley? And will we use the Radu and Marilenev as related families, as their coat of arms including Lymphads may suggest? ;)
Agathokles 01-19-08, 12:56 PM	And Hojah, a mispelling/mispronounciation of the vandar name :) Indeed :) Ok, but where can I read more about then? Are they canon? And did they migrate to the SC as well? :) These are from Night of the Vampire, so, yes, these are canon Traladaran families from the area around Vandevicsny (more or less where I put Ourosco). They did not move to the SC -- or maybe some members did, but the families are still present in Karameikos. The Ourosco, Moubotka and Strolojca families seem to hold Landed Lord titles (though they might also be Court Lord with land properties -- I don't have the NotV module). BTW, does Al-Zalenikah territory also includes the Urt-Ust Valley? Very likely. Or at least has some control over the tribal chiefs of the area -- who would be vassals of the Zalenikahn Emir. And will we use the Radu and Marilenev as related families, as their coat of arms including Lymphads may suggest? ;) It's likely that the Radu were originally a merchant family, and married into nobility (i.e., the Marilenev) at some point. GP
havard 01-19-08, 01:09 PM	Sweet map GP! I would have liked to see Haven marked on the map as well, but otherwise it looks fine. :) Havard
Wilhelm_ 01-19-08, 01:14 PM	These are from Night of the Vampire, so, yes, these are canon Traladaran families from the area around Vandevicsny (more or less where I put Ourosco). They did not move to the SC -- or maybe some members did, but the families are still present in Karameikos. The Ourosco, Moubotka and Strolojca families seem to hold Landed Lord titles (though they might also be Court Lord with land properties -- I don't have the NotV module). Oh, I see :) I'm asking that because we're lacking canon traladaran families for the SC city-states. Since Halag influence go as far as Ourosco, some of the SC traladaran families may be related to those three. OTOH, Ourosco isn't powerful and the main families at there probably came from powerful Halag and the closer Svoga (and it's especially true if Svoga was razed during the Second Traladaran Wars, forcing everyone out of there). Very likely. Or at least has some control over the tribal chiefs of the area -- who would be vassals of the Zalenikahn Emir. I guess that fits Darokin GAZ that describes the kingdom (or at least the components that nowadays forms the republic) as being larger than moderm Darokin, including parts of Ylaruam and Karameikos. :) It's likely that the Radu were originally a merchant family, and married into nobility (i.e., the Marilenev) at some point. Yes. The Radu/Marilenev connection, if it did exist, it's likely quite old anyway. But it's a interesting thing that should be included in a historical campaign :)
Agathokles 01-19-08, 01:27 PM	Sweet map GP! I would have liked to see Haven marked on the map as well, but otherwise it looks fine. :) I don't know if Haven already existed at the time, though. Any idea on when it was created? GP
Agathokles 01-19-08, 01:50 PM	Oh, I see :) I'm asking that because we're lacking canon traladaran families for the SC city-states. Since Halag influence go as far as Ourosco, some of the SC traladaran families may be related to those three. OTOH, Ourosco isn't powerful and the main families at there probably came from powerful Halag and the closer Svoga (and it's especially true if Svoga was razed during the Second Traladaran Wars, forcing everyone out of there). Some of them could be used in the SC as well, indeed. However, here is a list of modern Karameikan NPCs from NotV (actually, from the transcript of the voice CD on the Vaults): Lord Hugo Strolojca (probably a mid-level fighter, suitor of Constantina Brezovo) Sir Ulric Brezovo (experienced army captain) Constantina Brezovo (daughter) Eric Brezovo (son, died in a duel with Strolojca) Lord Gustav Vandevic (reclusive nobleman) Lady Vandevic (wife) Laina Vandevic (niece and heir, bethroted to Iajo Moubotka) Andru Vandevic (long lost "cousin") Lord Moubotka (neighbour of Vandevic) Iajo Moubotka (son and heir, bethroted to Laina Vandevic) Lord Vasil Ourosco (another neighbour of Vandevic, his family lands were taken by Jan Vandevic, the first Lord of the line, in 900 AC)
havard 01-20-08, 01:57 PM	I don't know if Haven already existed at the time, though. Any idea on when it was created? Glad you asked :cool: According to James Mishler's Haven Almanac Entry (http://pandius.com/haven.html), Haven was founded by elves around 2200 BC. IMC Haven was the capital of Traldar, who also created the Silver Palace. (He also created a Second Silver Palace on the Adri Varma Plateau, having sensed that some of his descendants would settle near that area sometime in the distant future. The descendants of his vision were ofcourse the Boldavians*). Haven was lost to the Traldar after the demise of their leader, but was rediscovered by Halav and his companions (Zirchev would likely be prominent in this quest). They made a bargain with King Oberon of the Fey for support in their war against the Beastmen in return for Haven being placed within the domain of the Fey. My version doesn't quite fit with the one James wrote (although that's what I started out with), but maybe it can be modified so that the two versions fit better. *Links the orange cover B3 with the whole thing. The idea of a Second Silver Palace is an analogy to the Second Foundation from Asimov's novels. The palaces were created to aid the Traladarans in times of need. Perhaps the Adri Varma Palace contains some secret that will allow Morphail to break away from the yoke of Alphaks? :) Havard
Agathokles 01-20-08, 05:02 PM	My version doesn't quite fit with the one James wrote (although that's what I started out with), but maybe it can be modified so that the two versions fit better. James' idea seems quite easy to mix in, and the idea of involving Sidhe in Haven in both versions is certainly good -- it also helps to explain how the palace can exist at the same time in the Adri Varna and in Karameikos, if one wants to have it that way. However, it seems that Haven has no significant interaction with the outer world in the last two millennia. It could even be considered a very reclusive Faerie Kingdom in Karameikos (possibly fully replacing dwarves and humans with Faerie and Sidhe). GP
maddog 01-21-08, 12:04 PM	Here's the promised map. Zadreth is not shown on the map for distance reasons (it's a few miles to the north-east of Lugsid/Threshold). Hi Agathokles! Any chance of making the town labels on the map a darker red? I have red/green color blindness and am having trouble reading them. --Ray.
Agathokles 01-21-08, 05:07 PM	Any chance of making the town labels on the map a darker red? I have red/green color blindness and am having trouble reading them. Sorry! Anyway, I'd have no problem changing the labels. Which color would make for the better contrast? GP
maddog 01-21-08, 07:32 PM	Sorry! Anyway, I'd have no problem changing the labels. Which color would make for the better contrast? GP NP, Thanks for changing the map. I really appreciate it. I can see a dark maroon easily against the greens. Just stay alway from fire engine red against green and brown and you should be ok. :) I can see the dark maroon borders and labels on this map (not a Mystara hex map, sorry). http://nothome.dyndns.org:8080/%7Emaddog/DnD/WnW/Dark_Coast_24mile.png Thanks again! --Ray.
Agathokles 01-22-08, 01:49 PM	Here is the map with darker labels: http://home.dei.polimi.it/agosta/.private/traladara-wars2.png
maddog 01-23-08, 07:48 AM	Thanks! I can read those easily. :) --Ray.
Wilhelm_ 01-23-08, 12:40 PM	The label for 'Selenica' is missing ;)
Agathokles 01-23-08, 01:34 PM	The label for 'Selenica' is missing ;) Ops, I forgot it... well, luckily it's a pretty obvious one, but I'll update the map ASAP. GP
Wilhelm_ 01-24-08, 01:49 PM	BTW GP, this maps shows Traaldara in which year, exactly? AC 400?
Agathokles 01-25-08, 01:06 PM	BTW GP, this maps shows Traaldara in which year, exactly? AC 400? I'd say the map is mostly accurate for all the time between 0 AC and 800 AC. Svoga will be in ruins after 450 AC, though. GP
OldDawg 01-28-08, 04:35 AM	GP, nice work. One correction and one question. Correction: the central river should not go all the way over to the Darokin side of the mountains. It stops about two hexes in. Question: Halavos - did its founder know that this was the site of Laav? Or is this just a coincidence of names? The impression I got from Gaz1 was that no one knew were Laav originally was. -OldDawg
Agathokles 01-28-08, 06:54 AM	Correction: the central river should not go all the way over to the Darokin side of the mountains. It stops about two hexes in. Thanks, I'll correct this in the next version. Question: Halavos - did its founder know that this was the site of Laav? Or is this just a coincidence of names? The impression I got from Gaz1 was that no one knew were Laav originally was. Uhm, consider that modern people in Threshold, with the exception of 2 sages, don't know about Lugsid, Zadreth and the Temple of the Shield, even though these where clearly around up to 900 AC. Halavos was destroyed in the Vampire Wars, so it is possible that people forgot its connection to Lavv at that time. Anyway, the name is not entirely coincidential, but is related to Halav rather than to Lavv. GP