Contours and the Streel Water Basin - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Contours and the Streel Water Basin

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Hugin
Apr 01, 2005 17:22:49 A good suggestion was made in the Catch Ravenloft thread to move the discussion about contour mapping and the trouble with the Streel to its own thread, so here it is! Besides, Thorf's mapping thread has plenty of traffic as it is so let's spread it out a bit. ;)

Malteen wrote:
#2
dave_l
Apr 02, 2005 5:23:43 Would it be an idea to start with the 24 mile/hex map and shade it in 500ft increments? I would think that actual contour lines would be pretty difficult to work out accurately on that scale - you'd probably have to go to the 8 mile/hex scale to do real contour lines.

For the actual contour lines - are we looking at 100ft increments, or something even more detailed?

As far as the river system is concerned, I agree that although the creation of the system can have Immortal actions included, the actual day by day operation should be as natural as possible.

Part of the appeal of Mystara for me was that taking the broad principles as givens (magic works, elves & dwarves are real etc.), this world could exist. The Hollow World was a big pill to swallow in that regard, but having to have rivers flow uphill because of crazy geography would really be a step too far, for me personally.

So it's over to all of you geographical wizards to explain why it all works.
Hopefully I'll even understand some of it!
#3
Hugin
Apr 02, 2005 8:30:45
Would it be an idea to start with the 24 mile/hex map and shade it in 500ft increments?

This exactly what I tried to do. I started with how the contours flowed in a "general" sense to give me a better over-all picture of the lay of the land. Once you have the basic version, it is a little easier to begin to detail it. This is something I definately have to try my hand at again.
#4
eric_anondson
Apr 02, 2005 13:28:07 I've been doing a contour map of the Flanaess of Greyhawk. Some of those maps are located over on Canonfire . Greyhawk has its own geography problems. For one, the rivers flow from a swamp at the edge of the continent, thousands of miles across the land to an ocean on the other side... Plus, on of the tributaries comes from near the edge of the continent on a plain, flows in through a mountain chain and then to the other side of the continent. Both of these rivers enter a large lake that has two outlets on opposite sides out to the sea, one short and swift and the other long, wide and slow.

It has causes no end of cognitive dissonance among those with passing familiarity with geology and geography.

But it can be dealt with and worked around.

As far as 500 foot contours, I don't think it would be wise. An example. Minneapolis is under 1000 feet above sea level, but is thousands of miles from any ocean. On a 24 hex map of the entire continental US (far larger than the Known World, you'd have a single contour interval in the middle of the continent. 100 foot intervals would be better, until you reached mountains, where you'd leap to a higher interval (also change the color). You're not trying to do a USGS topographic map, just a basic reference map with practical topography for the user.

Navigable rivers need a very, very gradual decent, or else you will get rapids that will block navigation. If the Streel is not dotted with portages all through Darokain, then you won't find the 500 foot elevation contour along the Streel river inside Darokin. I would probably place the 500 foot interval just inside the Broken lands border, probably at the first cataract encountered. Depending on how much drop you want the cataracts to have through the Broken Lands, you could be justified with placing the 1,000 foot interval at the Ethengar/Broken Lands border. Following the flow to Rockhome, I would then place the 1,500 foot interval about where the Hrap river enters Ethengar from Rockhome.
#5
zombiegleemax
Apr 04, 2005 1:11:39 I am replying here to the last post in the other thread.

If you want to stick two portals to the plane of Water in the lakes thats your perogative, but it still wouldn't explain the fertile nature of the lowlands without actual rain.

The spirits in Ethengar have been determined to be different from elementals, but again, if that works for you, go for it. There has always been confusion concerning these entities.

Fortunately (this is usually unfortunately) my players won't waste time on skills like weather sense, geography, or cartography so I really don't have to figure it all out, as I'm the only one who cares and I don't need another headache.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Hugin Apr 01, 2005 17:22:49	A good suggestion was made in the Catch Ravenloft thread to move the discussion about contour mapping and the trouble with the Streel to its own thread, so here it is! Besides, Thorf's mapping thread has plenty of traffic as it is so let's spread it out a bit. ;) Malteen wrote:
#2 dave_l Apr 02, 2005 5:23:43	Would it be an idea to start with the 24 mile/hex map and shade it in 500ft increments? I would think that actual contour lines would be pretty difficult to work out accurately on that scale - you'd probably have to go to the 8 mile/hex scale to do real contour lines. For the actual contour lines - are we looking at 100ft increments, or something even more detailed? As far as the river system is concerned, I agree that although the creation of the system can have Immortal actions included, the actual day by day operation should be as natural as possible. Part of the appeal of Mystara for me was that taking the broad principles as givens (magic works, elves & dwarves are real etc.), this world could exist. The Hollow World was a big pill to swallow in that regard, but having to have rivers flow uphill because of crazy geography would really be a step too far, for me personally. So it's over to all of you geographical wizards to explain why it all works. Hopefully I'll even understand some of it!
#3 Hugin Apr 02, 2005 8:30:45	Would it be an idea to start with the 24 mile/hex map and shade it in 500ft increments? This exactly what I tried to do. I started with how the contours flowed in a "general" sense to give me a better over-all picture of the lay of the land. Once you have the basic version, it is a little easier to begin to detail it. This is something I definately have to try my hand at again.
#4 eric_anondson Apr 02, 2005 13:28:07	I've been doing a contour map of the Flanaess of Greyhawk. Some of those maps are located over on Canonfire . Greyhawk has its own geography problems. For one, the rivers flow from a swamp at the edge of the continent, thousands of miles across the land to an ocean on the other side... Plus, on of the tributaries comes from near the edge of the continent on a plain, flows in through a mountain chain and then to the other side of the continent. Both of these rivers enter a large lake that has two outlets on opposite sides out to the sea, one short and swift and the other long, wide and slow. It has causes no end of cognitive dissonance among those with passing familiarity with geology and geography. But it can be dealt with and worked around. As far as 500 foot contours, I don't think it would be wise. An example. Minneapolis is under 1000 feet above sea level, but is thousands of miles from any ocean. On a 24 hex map of the entire continental US (far larger than the Known World, you'd have a single contour interval in the middle of the continent. 100 foot intervals would be better, until you reached mountains, where you'd leap to a higher interval (also change the color). You're not trying to do a USGS topographic map, just a basic reference map with practical topography for the user. Navigable rivers need a very, very gradual decent, or else you will get rapids that will block navigation. If the Streel is not dotted with portages all through Darokain, then you won't find the 500 foot elevation contour along the Streel river inside Darokin. I would probably place the 500 foot interval just inside the Broken lands border, probably at the first cataract encountered. Depending on how much drop you want the cataracts to have through the Broken Lands, you could be justified with placing the 1,000 foot interval at the Ethengar/Broken Lands border. Following the flow to Rockhome, I would then place the 1,500 foot interval about where the Hrap river enters Ethengar from Rockhome.
#5 zombiegleemax Apr 04, 2005 1:11:39	I am replying here to the last post in the other thread. If you want to stick two portals to the plane of Water in the lakes thats your perogative, but it still wouldn't explain the fertile nature of the lowlands without actual rain. The spirits in Ethengar have been determined to be different from elementals, but again, if that works for you, go for it. There has always been confusion concerning these entities. Fortunately (this is usually unfortunately) my players won't waste time on skills like weather sense, geography, or cartography so I really don't have to figure it all out, as I'm the only one who cares and I don't need another headache.