In my campaigns the Order is just as Neutral as always, however they also travel in time, even back to the Blue age, (though there they are nearly impossible to detect, and they like to keep it that way) and they are record keepers and knowledge hunters. They collectively make up an equivalent to Astinus from the Krynn setting, only occasionally having an aberation of a High level member trying to influence the world.. I use them to be an oracle of sorts.. a sort of rite some non members can earn to glean some bit of info.
And the thri-kreen's in that huge forest on the other side of the mountains?? They are more than just a giant army about to invade, no, they have a unique culture and philosophy of their own, with prophecies and signs.. they have psionic masters unheard of in the Tyr region, and they have not previously invaded, awaiting the proper sign (that huge earth quake and the opening of the mountain pass). They have a very religious society, very strict, with every member having his place and duty and station. They are always working and preparing for a future war of some kind, with their queens being great seers who prophecy of great things for their people..
I've also toyed with the idea of a secret society of preservers (no, not that society) who study magic and broaden it's horizons.. who have vowed not to get involved with the world at large until it has managed to grow a little wiser, when the power they study wouldn't be used for the gratification of base lusts and evil designs, with both good and evil at each others throats, causing the world even greater harm.. so they wait, and they study, and they push the boundries of magic even further.. and they stay out of the way most importantly..
But imagine what would happen if one of their number were to decide it was wrong to stay hidden? and he took the knowledge he had and decided to use it in the world arround him??? Imagine an individual with an understanding of magic simiar to what you would imagine a person might have if taught by Rajaat, minus the desire to defile... and then toss in some of the more rare spells of other campaign worlds... don't you think the SK's would find such a character a little bit of a threat? or at least, a great jewel to be obtained?? And what of the Veiled Aliance?? Surely they too would seek to control this enhanced understanding, in a world where spells above sixth level are rare in wizardly circles (I read that somewhere, like the Dragon Kings book or something) would not they also seek this power?? So while the individual from this order may wish to teach wisdom, he would only upset the balance further, yet it would be interesting to see the effects it would have on the game world and the PC's to have such a wizard running around (he'd have to be young to not see the wisdom in his elders ways). I've yet to decide if this group is to be the world's only sorcerors with an uncanny understanding of magic...
What else do you like to toss into your campaigns??
The Sword of Coraanu Star Racer - each of the Elven Tribes has a sword that they claim is the One True Sword of the founder of the Athasian Elves. They each make all their swords based on that model (which is why each Tribe's swords are different, and why they bother to try and make something out of Obsidian that you can use iwth a Longsword skill). Of course there can only be one, true Sword of Coraanu Star Racer - if any of them is. I'm sure there's lots of plots there, but never really got beyond the initial idea...
The Last City of the Dwarves - buried under a mountain near Tyr is a city full of Undead Green-Age Dwarves. My original idea was that this was the city that was betrayed by Borys or Rajaat or something; these were the Dwarves that started the Banshee Curse.
Just to name a few
- Nibenay is an egyptian style city. When the shadow king appear, is 12 feet tall in a big black cloak with hieroglyph on it and he have a golden mask like Touthankamon. Once in my campaign, the PC were chased by templar cause they breaked-in the Naggamarakam. I had a huge Shadow-king magical head appearing over the city watching for the PC. It was pretty cool.
- Hamanu is 23th level even in year of the Priest defiance. Nibenay is 24.
- Balic are mix of Greek and normal athasian.
- The three Rajaat sword were made by Rajaat to eleminate the champinos once the cleasing war was over. He gave Silencer to Irikos, is most loyal follower so he can kill the champions and Hamanu hadthe Scorcher to kill the remaining and Irikos. Once Hamanu was the only one left, Rajaat could easely kill him.
- Magehome near the Lava gorge was Rajaat citadel. Back in the Green age, it was a psionic flying city but the Champions crashed it to the ground. Rajaat to defend himself agaisnt the Champions army created the Lava gorge, to summon hordes of Fire and earth elemental. There was a huge battle but Rajaat was finaly defeated and captured.
Which I seriously need to rework. Yes. It will be less cheesy this time around, I promise.
maybe i toss it in undersilt when i get rolling on that. could also make npcs of everyone on this board based on their posts as a contribution to dark sun :D
could also make npcs of everyone on this board based on their posts as a contribution to dark sun
Good luck. Flip threatened to send ninjas after me when I said I was planning on placing a mysterious character known as The Oracle in the Blue Shrine. :P
- The Far Side of the Silt Sea Project, still under construction.
- Flora and Fauna of Athas, a netbook dedicated to the birds and the bees, the flowers and the trees. Basically just a flavor book. Still under construction.
- Planes of Athas, currently in development.
- The Races of Athas; a detailed netbook dedicated to each player race on Athas where each chapter is (almost) as detailed as Elves of Athas. Still under construction.
- The Difinitive Map of Athas; a "zoomable" map of Athas where you can click anywhere on a map and it will "blow up" that area in more detail. I'm planning on adding a bump map and maybe doing it in VRML 2.0. In development.
An exploration of the Black in how it relates to Athas as a possibility-realm, alongside the nature and creation of the Hollow by the Sorcerer-Kings (and the effect this had on those most directly involved) within it (and why it was chosen for this purpose).
My take on the Elemental Planes as a part of Athas rather than seperate from it as other worlds/places/physicalities/locations one can (necessarily) visit. In essence, spiritual planes existing as metaphor/colored lenses over the physical landscape of Athas.
A partial history of the Green Age and snippets on the driving proaganda/impetus for the Cleansing Wars, including details of some of the lost races of Athas (and bits on the surviving races, particularly the elves). I've also written a little about the Cleansing Wars on the far side of the Silt Sea, and the current state of the land/society there.
Also, a theoretical explanation for the functioning of the Pristine Tower and the changes it wrought in bringing about each Age, why it consumed so much energy during its use, and why the seas became silt.
A take on the future of Athas, where it becomes a barren, wind-swept land of snowstorms, glacial ice, and mists. Psionic technology is everywhere, Rajaat is (for all intents and purposes) "freed", reality is literally crumbling: the world isn't just dying at this stage, it is dead and decaying.
When the Cleansing Wars began, the aboleth (along with their mind flayer and skum minions) declared allegiance to Rajaat, and waged a secret war against the subterranean Rebirth races, secretly (unknown to even the Champions) aiding in the destruction of races such as the goblins and kobolds. After the Cleansing Wars would to have been over, Rajaat promised to transform them back into rhulisti.
--after Rajaat's defeat, the three aboleth races retreated deep under the ground, and hid NB
Ouch. Well at least we know it has a happy ending. Right? ;)
yeah a happy ending if you're a halfing and you didn't bet on the wrong horse :P
Good luck. Flip threatened to send ninjas after me when I said I was planning on placing a mysterious character known as The Oracle in the Blue Shrine. :P
don't worry. I'm sure he wouldn't mind an oracle...amongst the flying dolphin legions!!!
I also added a few regions outside canon, the main one is known as The Untouched Continent. This forested plateau has a large sea in it's center that breaks off into rivers at it's quarter points. The rivers cross the plateau and fall off the "edge of the world" into the haze covered savannah miles below. Life on the Untouched Continent is the last bastion of the Green Age. The isolationist peoples who live there have no clue about the rest of Athas, the cleansing wars, sorcerer kings, etc., much less the ecological disaster that has been wrought on their world. Shielded from the blazing sun by humidity, altitude, and a mysterial spell eminating from a great towering city - much like the city of Sigil of Planescape fame - based in the geographical center of the plateau'd sea.
I've added dozens of sorcerer kings and queens - more "original" champions and many off-spring of champions spread throughout the world that mimic a myriad of cultures that we have on Earth, plus those borrowed (stolen, really) from Star Wars, Earth Dawn, Palladium, Everquest, Conan, and others.
In one campaign, probably my most radical one, I have super heroes from another RPG campaign who were sent to Athas via an extradimensional mishap and with the advent of d20 superhero games like Silver age Sentinels and Mutants and Masterminds, converting their heroic game stats to Dark Sun stats was relatively simple. The fun thing about this was a few heroes from earth arrived on this desert world filled with psionics and monsters and EVERYTHING is new to them. They don't know anything of the world, they face a multitude of language barriers, they lack any natural psionics, and the role-playing opportunities are bountiful - they had a complete fit at the first slave market they saw. They have been trying to find a way get home, all the while helping to free slaves, defeat bandits, battling undead, and gaining the attention of sorcerer-kings who want to find out how they ended up on Athas. (please be kind canon-police!)
Great Thread, I've gotten some great ideas from your sharing. Thanks! :D
I'm planning on using Oronis of Kurn as Rajaat's jailor. If I do a Dark Sun campaign.
Perhaps that's why the other sorcerer-kings never recruited Oronis and Daskinor for the assault on Ur Draxa: Both Jagged Cliffs Region sorcerer-kings were needed on the homefront, ritually supporting the other 6 (plus Borys) with magic from afar...
--it makes a certain sense NB
I'm planning on using Oronis of Kurn as Rajaat's jailor. If I do a Dark Sun campaign.
You know, that's a very good idea!! I think he could be sneaky enough to prevent his old master's escape and not draw attention to himself.. Also, he doesn't need to rely on Dragon Magic (or the Levy) to restrain Rajaat.. Interesting :-)
I've also altered the way Hamannu's progression works, removing some of the detriments to the Dragon Metamorphosis that others endure, streamlining things for him, and allowing him to progress without casing a spell of any kind, plus, when the other SK's use that same trick to advance his metamorphosis that they used on Borys, he looses nothing in his transformation, gaining all abilities as if he'd worked his way up normally..
(plus, he's not gone in my campaigns, he's too dang cool)...
Farcluun has a subteranean inverted triangular pyramid built in the far southern Forest Ridge, chiseled into the very stone of the ground; he long ago took the lives of the workers who built his pyramid for him though his metamorphosis. The halflings of the region worship him as a force of death, which is starting to worry northern halflings who are hearing rumors.
He has several simulacrums and epic simulacrums walking around, doing his dirty business for him, since he had unfortunate encounters with a SK and several members of the Order in the past, from which he barely escaped alive. Since then he's been hiding in his pyramid, so tightly warded against divinations its the next best thing to the curse that befell the Lens for all those thousand years.
He's slowly progressing towards his second stage of metamorphosis.
and wanted to see if I could get some responses outta people. But this actually turned into a rather nice find for information I'm rather impressed by the ideas that have floated around in this thread...
Makes me curious, do you think we could come up with something rather interesting (if not deadly and fun) to run a group of PC's through if we each picked a section of map and designed the goings on there???? Section A7 of the Table Lands holds this major villain or that forgotten relic.. It would be easy, factions that the PC's encounter in one area could be easily explained away in another area with a tiny bit of imagination.. It would be rather fun I think..
Who wants to be in charge of Ancient Relics, and who would want to work on the random seeming dispersal of epic level good guys and bad guys.. and who wants to tackle the historical landmarks, and who wants the marauding bands of contemporary baddies?? :P
If we could tie it off to that online zooming web map people have going, people could simply write up their own areas events and post it like a thread on a message board.. like little mini adventures and adventure hooks built into the maps by those willing to add some detail to it.. (we could have the map makers be able to veto anything that was really lame or that simply didn't belong.. like a band of 30th level Dragons suddenly sweeping in from the huge forest/jungle of the thrikreen... unless that forest was desimated in the last five minutes by said dragon hords, it aint happening
)Just some ramblings from me, but I thank ya'll again for the cool thoughts, gives me some things to work with.. who was the one who had some type of ancient water shrine?? I think that was on another thread, but still, an interesting idea...
Herbanak, a hidden subterranean mountain city run by a low-level shadow dragon (a half-elf shadow wizard dragon) who uses the population to fuel his advancement. In addition to getting their life energy, he got most of the resources he needed for the advancement spells from the city. It was sort of a symbiot relationship between the inhabitants and the dragon. The dragon provided resources the city could not produce on its own and helped maintain and expand the city through its spells and psionics. In return it took what it needed, including the citizens' lives, which was accepted in the community. The dragon had told the people it needed the energy otherwise it would die. It was a nice plan until the PCs came and killed him, only to be assaulted by angry citizens.
You know, I'm stealing this!
--yoink NB
An Athasian Kreen Dragon (The Terminus Vortexa) is a major player in my campaign
How is this possible, from a canon point-of-view? Tohr-kreen know nothing of arcane magic, and Rajaat sure as **** never taught any thri-kreen arcane magic, as he would see a sentient kreen as an abomination to the "glory" of Blue Age kreen "animals". Also, no sorcerer-king would so foolish as to teach the secrets of wizardry to a race with predatory instincts...after all, dragon kings are themselves predators, and predators don't like competition.
and a Defiler Avangion is in the works.
This is an impossibility, as far as canon is concerned. Sorry.
Warlocks trained in the Dead Lands
Now this sounds cool.
--but hey, canon exists to be shreded, if one sees the need NB
The ioun stone was actually Dom Ator, not the human they defeated! The stone was a psionically enchanted sentient item that had turned on its master centuries before and has been using the villagers as host bodies ever since. The unsuspecting PC that ended up claiming Dom Ator was under the impression it was just a normal ioun stone of +1 Int (remember, its was 2e). It wasn't till days later that the PC (a elf thief/psion) was dominated by the ioun stone and slipped off from rest of the group.
Later that night, as the rest of party searched for the elf they were confronted by their comrade dressed as Dom Ator( Which was actually quite comical because he was wearing a prissy/frilly nobleman's outfit sized for a human. It was way to small for the tall skinny elf).
I'll leave out the rest of the details, but in short, the PC's had to find a way to defeat their elven party member/bad guy and the psionically dominated townsfolk with out harming either of the two.
It was a very memorable session.
--*furiously takes notes for his offline Scarred Lands games* NB
How is this possible, from a canon point-of-view? Tohr-kreen know nothing of arcane magic, and Rajaat sure as **** never taught any thri-kreen arcane magic, as he would see a sentient kreen as an abomination to the "glory" of Blue Age kreen "animals". Also, no sorcerer-king would so foolish as to teach the secrets of wizardry to a race with predatory instincts...after all, dragon kings are themselves predators, and predators don't like competition.
On the flip side, though, the idea of a gigantic winged sentient insect that has vampiric, land-killing magic is very, VERY cool imagery.
--and if your dragon-bug became more and more locust-like each metamorphosis, it really fits NB
Well there is my whole thing on the descendants/followers of the Nature Benders. This includes the actual descendants being 3 groups.... a group of Halflings, the Yuan-ti (quite possibly the scariest of the three as they retain full use of the lifeshaping arts.), and the Kreen empire. As well as some of their "test subjects" that retained their lifeshaping knowledge to one point or another. (The Illithids being the ones with the most knowledge of lifeshaping) Did full write up of rules for lifeshaping and everything.
A Halfling who was part either a shadow giant, shadow wizard, or touched by the black. (Players never found out exactly what it was as it was an NPC, what they did know is it could cast wizard spells and was psionic) This character was first introed to the party when they finnished off Farcluun to have his body disappear into the shadow under the corpse. Later that night the half elf defiler/psionicist (yes this was 2ed) had a interesting mindscape where he was sacrificed on a halfling feast stone. (the Halfling used the bones from Farcluun legs, the obsidian orbs in his belly and the psychic and arcane energy of the player character to forge a shortsword that was later presented to the Mul gladiator in the party.... she liked it.... the half elf went preserver after that incident.... guess he did not like being food for the Green)
I have preserver dragons in my games (Nok being the most obvious example.) who use animal life to cast their spells instead of using plant life at all. It makes sense just takes a whole lot longer for them to gather the energy to transform.
Do not have defiler Avangions as the transformation would kill them.... a dragon can be slowed down to get the energy for a spell.... but speeding up making the inner pool would rupture a defiler trying to become an avangion.... IMHO (though one did try in my games.... it was bad.)
Quite a few extra SK's in the area outside the tyr region.... some were Champions.... some were not. The Sk's were not the only ones able to find a way to link to the elemental planes to grant power. (through vortexes and other methods.)
in some games I use the spellcasting system from arcana unearthed for arcane casters..... it adds much more flexibility.... and also gives an easy way to express the differences with defilers. They can cast the heightened versions at the normal use of slots (or the regular version at the reduced cost) when they defile. Even preservers can do so..... but once you start it becomes a concentration check to keep from defiling... DC is 5 x number of times you have cast defling spells. And it requires a ritual to "reset" this DC to zero. (and costs the defiler XP equal to the current concentration DC x 100)
there are others but this just some of the stuff I use. (oh and the SK's taken down by Rajaat are by no means all gone in my game..... even Borys has a chance of coming back)
--Kalak, on the other hand, might well make a return to the Material Plane, as a t'liz or kaisharga NB
My group ended up taking on the name of "The Order of the Claw" as introduced in CbtSS. They found and kept the book lying in undergound city beneath the ruins of Giustenal and started following the edicts and teachings of Taraskir, the Lion King.
Later on, they took on a quest to raise Taraskir from the dead. After many years of campaign play the PCs raised the lion headed giant/psion and was instrumental in the defeat of Dregoth.
Taraskir is now trying to rebuild the ruins of his former city, Giustenal, with the help of the PC's and their legions. Some of the PCs are becoming the first spell casting templars of the Lion King (long story behind how that came about).
--not to nitpick, as your idea is cool, but how did Taraskir get an elemental vortex? NB
Even though Taraskir probably wasn't a do-gooder paladin, he was a fair and just king, loved of his city, which is an exploit since it was full of varied races.
One could always try and bring back Nerad and Korgunard.
There's always the kreen Great One. Bringing him back might put an end to kreen hostilities in the Tyr region.
Haakar was a good guy too.
...
Beats me, there's no one else.
It requires an elemental vortex to be able to grant templars their spells.
--not to nitpick, as your idea is cool, but how did Taraskir get an elemental vortex? NB
Understandable. Let me explain.
IMC, Dregoth went around collection/stealing the SK's (living and dead) vorticies in order to preform a ritual to become Athas' first god (my version of DA because I gave up hope of ever getting a copy of the real one) .
During the SK's show down with Dregoth (I had the players play the SK's) Taraskir also showed up to lend a hand in defeating his one time slayer. When he had laid down the final blow, Dregoth had staggered into the astral conduit he had pulled to Athas (with the stolen vorticies) and disappeared in an explosion of energy as the conduit was ripped back to the astral. The result was that the vorticies reattached themselves to the gathered SK's as well as to Taraskir and Irikos (a story for another time).
Unfortunately, they all died during the Cleansing Wars, and the genocidal villains ended up in charge of the Material Plane.
--such is the way of life on Athas NB
I disagree about Borys coming back from the dead. Rajaat is the master of all arcane magic, not to mention a genius of the Way, plus having the innate magical abilities of a pyreen. If he kills someone, it's virtually guaranteed they'll stay deader-than-dead. This means Tectiktitlay, Abalach-Re, and Borys are quite dead and never coming back.
--Kalak, on the other hand, might well make a return to the Material Plane, as a t'liz or kaisharga NB
On my way of bringing them back was a combination of contingency and clones (actually epic magic versions of them that includes a form of mind seed) in the case of Borys.... as his physical form (possibly his soul but definately his physical form) was destroyed by the black metamorphosis liquid. If I were Borys I would have built things specifically that would bring me back if Rajaat ever broke free. This was only in my personal games and they did not follow the pentad exactly. (players made some changes)
sacha and wyan are both back in my games, and as to the other two.... I get the feeling they would have contingencies in place as well (if nothing else they mind seeded some clones.)
Note while Rajaat was the discoverer of arcane magic and the first sorcerer. He was a not described as all powerfull in the psionics arena from anything I remember reading. (by 2ed stats a pyreen was a 14+ level druid/psionicist) So while I personally think he was higher in psionics as well..... there is the distinct possibility that the SK's grew to be stronger than him in the way. (though they would not in arcane magic.)
So if the methods the Sk's used to make their contingencies were psionic in nature..... they might not have been discovered by Rajaat in the short time he was fighting them. (ie epic manifesting)
On my way of bringing them back was a combination of contingency and clones (actually epic magic versions of them that includes a form of mind seed) in the case of Borys.... as his physical form (possibly his soul but definately his physical form) was destroyed by the black metamorphosis liquid. If I were Borys I would have built things specifically that would bring me back if Rajaat ever broke free. This was only in my personal games and they did not follow the pentad exactly. (players made some changes)
sacha and wyan are both back in my games, and as to the other two.... I get the feeling they would have contingencies in place as well (if nothing else they mind seeded some clones.)
Note while Rajaat was the discoverer of arcane magic and the first sorcerer. He was a not described as all powerfull in the psionics arena from anything I remember reading. (by 2ed stats a pyreen was a 14+ level druid/psionicist) So while I personally think he was higher in psionics as well..... there is the distinct possibility that the SK's grew to be stronger than him in the way. (though they would not in arcane magic.)
So if the methods the Sk's used to make their contingencies were psionic in nature..... they might not have been discovered by Rajaat in the short time he was fighting them. (ie epic manifesting)
Rajaat didn't need uber-psionics to make certain Borys and those Champions he slew stayed dead; sheer, raw, unadulturated magical might is enough.
--remember, on Athas, spells do exist that disrupt and/or interfere with psionics NB
Understandable. Let me explain.
IMC, Dregoth went around collection/stealing the SK's (living and dead) vorticies in order to preform a ritual to become Athas' first god (my version of DA because I gave up hope of ever getting a copy of the real one) .
During the SK's show down with Dregoth (I had the players play the SK's) Taraskir also showed up to lend a hand in defeating his one time slayer. When he had laid down the final blow, Dregoth had staggered into the astral conduit he had pulled to Athas (with the stolen vorticies) and disappeared in an explosion of energy as the conduit was ripped back to the astral. The result was that the vorticies reattached themselves to the gathered SK's as well as to Taraskir and Irikos (a story for another time).
Even if Dregoth had succeeded, in a canonical DS campaign, he wouldn't have become a god.
--gods have never existed on Athas, and never ought to NB
Rajaat didn't need uber-psionics to make certain Borys and those Champions he slew stayed dead; sheer, raw, unadulturated magical might is enough.
--remember, on Athas, spells do exist that disrupt and/or interfere with psionics NB
No but he also did not take a lot of time on them either...... and the SK's had thousands of years to take percautions.... again this is just in my own campaign.
I personally do not think any opponent is infallible, there for I did not consider it likely for Rajaat to have planned out his combat against them round by round.... as he did not choose his place of attack. The shadow giants did not have access to Ur Draxa to give him detailed information on the battle ground before hand. He did not know which SK's he would be ultimately facing, and would not have had access to all the things they may have been able to prepare before hand. There for while he was MUCH stronger than them and able to swat them aside..... he would not have had all the information he would really have needed to take on all eventuallities.... he was attacked right after he got loose.
On the method I actually used for the contingencies in my campaign. First it was done with a combination of epic psionics and magic (10th level spells in 2ed) Several of the SK's (most assuradly Borys among them) Made exact duplicates of themselves (clones) and seeded them with copies of their minds. (in 3.5 mind seed, in 2ed was a psionic enchantment.) Stored these in stasis with contingencies set to awaken them. (in other words they were already ready along time before their deaths.... just updated occasionally) and it was the lack of the continuing of the spell which awakened them.... not a spell in an of itself. So unless Rajaat found out about them in the couple of minutes of combat that it took him to kill the SK's.... they would have awakened.
again this was just my campaign idea, as the thread was about what we brought to darksun. (and this was just one of many specials in my game.)
Even if Dregoth had succeeded, in a canonical DS campaign, he wouldn't have become a god.
--gods have never existed on Athas, and never ought to NB
True, but thats what makes it a "home game". I'm sure almost every DS campaign sways from canon at one point or another.
True, but thats what makes it a "home game". I'm sure almost every DS campaign sways from canon at one point or another.
True.
Hence my use of the phrase, "In a canonical campaign."--I personally like to keep Athas as pure and canonical as possible NB
True.
--I personally like to keep Athas as pure and canonical as possible NB
I try as well, but won't hesitate in deviating from canon when it betters the story or campaign.
I compiled the Wizard's Spell Compendium that Athas.org has on its official releases page. It was the first and only AD&D2e document that WotC gave semi-formal approval for. It is a compilation of every 2e spell for Dark Sun that was ever published, or had a note it was appropriate for Athas, into a single document.
Something unique I do to change Athas is to use a cosmology borrowed from the BXCMI/RC edition of D&D. Specifically, the alternate take on elemental dominance and opposition. It always seemed more interesting and flavorful for Athas, IMO. I also use that edition of D&D's cosmology's version of dimensions...
There are other's but they seem to minor to note.
Of course, this meant that Sacha, Wyan, Borys, Abalach Re, and (possibly) Tec are all making a comeback in my campaigns. I've done it in several campaigns with different groups of players. Sacha and Wyan make sense, Abalach Re usually comes back just to be toasted by Dregoth. Borys flips from his death being permanent to being temporary as the need arises. Tec's the same - if I need him to advance the plotline (which I usually don't as my players avoid Draj, dammit), he comes back.
So if you're a preserver going that route, make sure to make friends with a high level cleric or druid :P just in case... then set it up so that your body is transported to that person in the event of your death (leave a fake you behind, for evidence, like an already deceased simulacrum :P)
Unless there is some special circumstances around Advanced Beings. Maybe you can bring them back, but they would lose *all* the Advanced Being development they had undergone.
What would be the reasoning behind that? Maybe if they were reincarnated sure, but if they are resurrected, that sucker is back for good complete and whole.. What would you want to strip them of their AB status for? Gimee a good reason?
What would be the reasoning behind that? Maybe if they were reincarnated sure, but if they are resurrected, that sucker is back for good complete and whole.. What would you want to strip them of their AB status for? Gimee a good reason?
How about the sheer power of the energies involved with the metamorphic processes being lost upon a mere resurrection spell? Yes, mere. As in - not something Epic.
How about the sheer power of the energies involved with the metamorphic processes being lost upon a mere resurrection spell? Yes, mere. As in - not something Epic.
Ok, I see where you're coming from there, that's a good point, but then, you make it almost seem like in a way, the metamorphosis is almost dispellable.. like it can simply be undone if it's not continuously fed.. It's a permanent process.. not only does it increase the characters power, it alters their very physical form... it grants immortality for crying out loud... I could see a true resurrection spell bringing them back, but they'd be seriously underpowered.. very weak, near death in a way, since the spell isn't likely to restore their immortality, which is probably what makes them capable of surviving their transformation.. So, how about something in the middle.. they are braught to life, but they are extreemly week.. no spells, few psionic power points.. and aflicted like hit with a Harm spell.. if they survive the first day, and can replenish themselves.. then they may have a shot at restoring themselves to full vigor.. (it may be the act of absorbing their daily alotment of spell energy and their psp reserve kicking in that regenerates them...)
I see what you're saying, i do.. and it does make sense... but it just seems so unfair.... especially with a permanent physical alteration...
I'd rather say the spells couldn't bring them back if that were the case.. and rely on something epic to step in and alter things... (what would have been Dregoth's spell then???)
My SKs are SFs.
Yes, the mighty Sorcerer-Flumphs...
Sorry, couldn't resist.
It's a permanent process.. not only does it increase the characters power, it alters their very physical form... it grants immortality for crying out loud...
the champions were made immortal (or were regardless...see dregoth) before the dragon transformations, which were initiated only after the rebellion.
the champions were made immortal (or were regardless...see dregoth) before the dragon transformations, which were initiated only after the rebellion.
where do you get that?? I'm not quite familiar with the history back that far, how did they become immortal before the Transformation??? And why is it that every transformation from ground zero has that built in no matter who is the caster??
where do you get that?? I'm not quite familiar with the history back that far, how did they become immortal before the Transformation??? And why is it that every transformation from ground zero has that built in no matter who is the caster??
What if they WEREN'T immortal? What if that is an effect of their own studies and plotings post-Rajaat? What if their immortality is limited, in that they can age and die, or be killed, unless they do or have some rare thing that keeps them going?
I'm thinking of a twisted version of the Norse myths here. To refresh you all, the Norse gods only had immortality as long as they ate the golden apples of Idun; at one point they were cut off from this by the giants and grew old swiftly until they regained the apples. So, something -- a ritual, a certain fruit that grows on the Trees of Life they keep in their garden, or some combination of these -- maintains their immortality.
Another possibility is that when their court defilers grow too powerful, they simply drain out their life forces in order to maintain their own youth and power, and the more powerful the defiler, the more strength they gain from them. (That would certainly be a reason to keep them around and train them.)
Without this thing, whatever it is, the Sorcerer-Kings would die of old age.
Otherwise, I would want to argue that even Rajaat cannot destroy them: they're immortal, and continue to exist regardless of their physical status.
Could you imagine Ablach-Re returning to power because her templars, defilers, and the warrior-generals she has convinced she loves go out and capture a drake and various other powerful creatures with which to remake her form (why a drake, etc? Because those are the only things powerful enough to hold the essence of a Sorcerer-King or Sorcerer-Queen).
Time to rename the thread?
Nah, I think a little spinoff is good, afterall, since we're talking about unique additions, current fluff floating in our head is quite all right.. (I've actually never DM'd more than one short game :P but that doesn't mean I haven't come up with little twists of my own for the world that I haven't put into practice yet... the stuff I started this thread with I came up with when I wrote the posting.. other stuff I've commented on like the halfling nature masters creation of the green age, their purposes, and the linking of the dark lense to the blue age are all just fluff floating around in my head, but I like it so much its part of my campaign universe
What if they WEREN'T immortal? What if that is an effect of their own studies and plotings post-Rajaat? What if their immortality is limited, in that they can age and die, or be killed, unless they do or have some rare thing that keeps them going?
So, something -- a ritual, a certain fruit that grows on the Trees of Life they keep in their garden, or some combination of these -- maintains their immortality.
Another possibility is that when their court defilers grow too powerful, they simply drain out their life forces in order to maintain their own youth and power, and the more powerful the defiler, the more strength they gain from them. (That would certainly be a reason to keep them around and train them.)
Without this thing, whatever it is, the Sorcerer-Kings would die of old age.
Otherwise, I would want to argue that even Rajaat cannot destroy them: they're immortal, and continue to exist regardless of their physical status.
Ok, immortality is not being mortal anymore, if they can age and die then they aren't immortal, there's no limitation on immortality :P however immortality, isn't invulnerability.. it's not God status (and in D&D that doesn't grant invulnerability either, it just makes you freakin tough to beat!)
I like the concept of magical fruits in their gardens, but I'd keep those in reserve for honored templars and other servants who they want to keep around.
As for the training of the defilers, I like the idea more of training them, then absorbing their powers, much like the Bloodstone of Fistandantilus, gaining their uniqueness and abilities. they could absorbe the life energy too, and hord it for healing later. that way they could have something other than psionics or their templars for healing themselves...
These are just some of my thoughts on a different spin of what you had, what you wrote had merit (and yes I know I didn't post all of it) I liked the concepts you came up with, even though I wouldn't use them in my DS campaing, they are definitely worth using.. maybe both could be used, mortal and immortal wizards running around, some dragons, others of a different variety
some with potion fruits, others with greater magics - Magehome near the Lava gorge was Rajaat citadel. Back in the Green age, it was a psionic flying city but the Champions crashed it to the ground. Rajaat to defend himself agaisnt the Champions army created the Lava gorge, to summon hordes of Fire and earth elemental. There was a huge battle but Rajaat was finaly defeated and captured.
Nice Idea, I think I'll use that if you don't mind.
In fact, I should be on Athas.org team giving up good idea, but that another story
- The Difinitive Map of Athas; a "zoomable" map of Athas where you can click anywhere on a map and it will "blow up" that area in more detail. I'm planning on adding a bump map and maybe doing it in VRML 2.0. In development.
I've seen a map like that though I can't remember the name of the site... it's very high quality. Did you make it?
I have it as a Gate to the Plane of Water that Rajaat opened inside another pyreen that challenged him before the Cleansing Wars. He is chained deep underground and the water that is seen flowing form the parapets at the Mud Palace originated inside of him.
That is my one unique idea. Anything else is borrowed from someone else.
It does exist and it is being founded by a Avangion named Hope (the city= New Hope) So far, none of my groups have survived getting to it.
2- I am more open about other dimensions than cannon Darksun stuff. It is just very difficult and unpredictable to do. I have one dimensional traveler whom comes "home" once every few hundred years.
3- I have given history, location and personalities to many other Sorcerer-Kings than the existing 15. With the exception of one, all of the others have died (along with their cities) due to war, failing a transformation check or natural disaster. Dregoth may NOT be the only undead survivor however.
2- I am more open about other dimensions than cannon Darksun stuff. It is just very difficult and unpredictable to do. I have one dimensional traveler whom comes "home" once every few hundred years.
While I keep the Gray in my games as a bizarre crossover of the Ethereal and Astral planes (with Negative Energy influences), and the Black as a sundered/cut off piece of the Plane of Shadows trapped within the boundaries that the Gray sets forth, and have these planes being neigh impossible to penetrate (with only the denziens of the Astral Plane being able to do it a handful of times in all of history), there is one Transitive plane I do allow for access through . It is little-known, and here is no recorded (or unrecorded) references to it - the Plane of Mirrors (from Manual of the Planes). I even have it so that the Gate which Dregoth has, utilizes the Plane of Mirrors to bypass the boundaries of the Gray and allows access into other worlds/planes otherwise separated by the Gray. As the Plane of Mirrors is little-known in the outer realms (the Astral plane being far easier to travel through, and more available, is my reasoning) this still keeps Athas separated from most everything else. Of course, I also do allow for normal (non-spelljamming) space travel - but that's relatively unheardof in a Fantasy setting.