Plants
Animals
Shadow (the black)
Death (the grey)
Light (the sun)
Storm ( the Cerulean Storm )
Is there anything else we could possibly use?? About the only thing left I can think of, would be a counterpart to the sun wizard, and tap the life force of Athas, which Rajaat failed to do (having the Sun Wizard be a Defiler style PrC, and the other be Preserver) I'd make that an Epic PrC for Avangions
Anyone else come up with any other energy styles??
(like we really need them, after all, what you have listed above, should a caster have all of them, he'd be able to draw spells in any dimension or surrounding with the exception of the hollow, hehe, remind ya of anyone??)
Anyone ever thought about what it would do for a dragon to siphon the HD of a Spirit of the Land to fuel his spells?? isn't that like a double bonus? Living creature, and the life of the land.. would you grant major buku bonuses to that?? Like supercharging his spells?
I can post it here if need be.
*edit*
Actually here's a link to it HERE
I don't know what kind of magical power one could draw from Ral and Guthay, if any. They seem to be lifeless compared to the sun. Look at all of the abuse that has been done to the sun, and left the twin moons untouched and largely ignored, except by some false religious cults.
I don't know what kind of magical power one could draw from Ral and Guthay, if any. They seem to be lifeless compared to the sun. Look at all of the abuse that has been done to the sun, and left the twin moons untouched and largely ignored, except by some false religious cults.
Plus, drawing arcane power from the moons sounds to much like Dragon Lance.
Back to the topic at hand, I'd say arcane magic could draw on existant power sources. Think of the magic as a kind of plug that taps into the local energy. Most spellcasters on Athas tap into Life (be it plant or animal). Sadira taps the Sun, but that was only through use of the Pristine Tower. In my own campaigns, I would not go beyond that, although I realize there are prestige classes that allow for more obscure power sources (Cerulean Storm, Shadow, etc).
The Moon Priests of Draj have some tricks up their sleeves though, even after Tec's death...
Lynn Abbey has her templar/druid protagonist access the moons for energy in one scene.
Come to think of it, Wouldnt it be nice to have PrC classes specifically for Dragon's and Avangions?? Something like, True Defiler for dragons, which would explain Hamanu's ability to defile so well that he could absorb other dragons or their minions before they can draw from them... Maybe something like Land Touched for Avangions, where they are able to draw on that life spark of Athas... (enacting the first level of that PrC could be a ritual involving contact with several (say a half dozen?) Spirits of the Land!) that would be epic in and of itself!! (and maybe dang near impossible!!)
And what about a City Spirit PrC? For those druids who become Spirits of the Land and wish to occupy the area taken by a city as well?
What of an Elemental Purifier, for those elemental champions who are so capable, they can separate a paraelemental into it's two parts.. and demolish or set loose the other part! (Take that Magma man!)
What of an Elemental Purifier, for those elemental champions who are so capable, they can separate a paraelemental into it's two parts.. and demolish or set loose the other part! (Take that Magma man!)
I've actually been thinking abit about this. High level spell? Use of a turning attempt? If it was a spell, it'd probably have to be Fortitude based save. Most elementals don't seem to have that great of a will save. Secondly, what you've just effectively done, is turn an enemy into two(likely lesser powered) allies. That'd be more than a bit strong, especially if you were adventuring on Athas' elemental planes.
I've actually been thinking abit about this. High level spell? Use of a turning attempt? If it was a spell, it'd probably have to be Fortitude based save. Most elementals don't seem to have that great of a will save. Secondly, what you've just effectively done, is turn an enemy into two(likely lesser powered) allies. That'd be more than a bit strong, especially if you were adventuring on Athas' elemental planes.
I'd like to say turning attempt, except that part of me wants to see this effect done by an elemental (or at least priest) of both elements if both sides are to be saved.. otherwise the turning attempt might fail, or the other element may be destroyed or whatever... but imagine a a fire and earth purifier (I'd like to call them purists) kind of "draw" out the component elements.. it would rip the creature in two, and you'd have two lesser allies.. So while turning fits.. I don't know if its workable to require two different elementals (or priests) unless you were to say that was the only way to save the other piece, or ensure success..
Maybe you can only "draw out" half as much if you are solo, but if you have a purifier of the right co-element, then your working at full power.. able to draw all of your element with full strength, while they do the same...
course you realise, this could be how the paraelemental types take out their parent parts.. making them join together! lol.. so a paraelement joiner would be one who could say, attract a fire spirit and earth elemental to become a magma paraelemental... it would destroy both previous elementals and create one new powerful allie (especially since the apposing team just lost one each)
Maybe you can only "draw out" half as much if you are solo, but if you have a purifier of the right co-element, then your working at full power.. able to draw all of your element with full strength, while they do the same...
This or something like this, I think. One cleric could do it alone, but turns as if he were X levels(3 levels? 5 levels?) lower. Having both clerics coordinate result a turning at full power.
course you realise, this could be how the paraelemental types take out their parent parts.. making them join together! lol.. so a paraelement joiner would be one who could say, attract a fire spirit and earth elemental to become a magma paraelemental... it would destroy both previous elementals and create one new powerful allie (especially since the apposing team just lost one each)
Hmm...I am not sure the paraelementals are that devious. What I think happened was that as Athas was defiled, the elements and elementals became gradually weaker and weaker. Joining together allowed them to combine and survive the defiling. It was an act of desperation.
and the Process involved in the training!! I'd take the training for a character just to get those benefits regardless of ever being able to cast a spell!!! (immunities to 1st through 9th level illusions is mighty tempting!!) and that's just to start!! Is anyone else familiar with the type of magic I'm referring to from back then?? Some of the spells available to a single wizard caster were like 10th level spells, others with more casters were like 11th, and the most complex rituals were like 12th... I'd allow Avangions to have something like that (Imagine an Avangion built Weave Mythal spell over a sanctuary, or over Oronis of Kern's city) If you know what I'm talking about, tell me if you think the idea has some merit, or if it could be twisted into something worthwhile.. if not for Avangions.. then for Spirits of the Land maybe?? (perhaps more fitting for druids to cast in concert, even if just as spirits of the land??)
I'm thinking more on that Land Touched thingy I've been daydreaming about, about using the life spark of athas...
Isn't drawing the life/energy out of plant life and soil pretty much drawing on the life spark of Athas already?
Yeah, but not directly. It's filtered through plants. I think Lyric's talking about succeeding where Rajaat failed, and tappingthe well right at the source.
What would be the main benefit of that though?
What if certain schools of magic drew a portion of its energy form another source beyond just life force? Example being if a wizard cast a necromancy spell it pulls a bit of energy from the Gray? If an illusion spell is cast it draws a little energy from the black?
Like I said, this was just a random thought I figured I'd throw out there.
This is just a half thought out crazy idea.
What if certain schools of magic drew a portion of its energy form another source beyond just life force? Example being if a wizard cast a necromancy spell it pulls a bit of energy from the Gray? If an illusion spell is cast it draws a little energy from the black?
Like I said, this was just a random thought I figured I'd throw out there.
Well, if you wanted to get that complicated in your campaigns you could, however I'd say that the spells that are used in each wizards case are the same, only the energy differs.. (I don't think Sadira had to learn all new spells to incorporate sun energy, though I know she did learn new spells..) I'd say that though the energy source was different, the end spell is the same, and that is what interracts with another spell (which is why a dispell magic cast from a shadow mage is the same as one from a normal preserver or defiler..)
If you wanted to mix the energy sources at their raw form, I'd say the spells would have to be special to incorporate that factor.. if you did so, you'd have to have good reason for it.. what would you use it for??
Ok, more info on my previous ramblings momentarily, gotta find the books
This is just for a basic rough Idea of what may be involved in the PrC capabilities.. and I think it works well because the training involved takes a very long time, and only something immortal like an Avangion or Spirit of the Land could conceivably have the serenity of mind to go this route..
I haven't yet decided if this should be available to Avangions or Spirits, I'll let that be open for discussion after I post these ideas..
Ok, I'm quoting or summarizing from a FR book called Carmanthyr: Empire of the Elves.. check the back of that book for more details.. I'm editing out mentions of Toril or Elves, focusing on the magic itself.. trying to get the livign magic feel that I think Epic Avangion or Spirit magic could have.. I think these things are fairly close to what I'm looking for.. after reading this over, I got the sense that this had a great Athasian feel
especially if you think of it in terms of the way magic on Athas works.. I'm partially quoting sections here.. (check pages 123 - 148 of the above cited book)
"Magic is not some idle power or tool that awaits your beck and call. It is a living thing, a vigor that permeates the planet and the air, and can rightly be called.. (the planets) life force. Magic demands your respect. Magic encourages cooperation. Magic requires understanding. Magic Needs passion, for only in emotion can it truly become Art. Magic is not merely a pawn or force to manipulate at will and whim, for to do so is to invite disaster. Magic is not power, magic simply is."
hehe, try telling "that" to Rajaat! lol, some of the above would explain why he failed, he tried to take, he was a defiler through and through...
"... the Weave, the mystical balance of forces and energies that govern magic.. "
"High Magic's primary use is the protection and support of the Weave, the forces of nature, and for the betterment of ... High Magic may create mythals to protect cities and gates to allow instantaneous transport across the planet, or.. to grow majetstic buildings and walls around their sylvan cities. However, High Magic also (and far more frequently) is used to prevent droughts and blight from destroying forest glades, slow or speed the flow of rivers or winter run-off to prevent (or sometimes cause) floods, and work with the magics inherent in the planet to find large-scale problems and solve them for the Weave and all the races..."
"High Magic depends on the unity of Mind, Spirit, Emotion, and Sense of Self and community within the High Mage and his surroundings."
"Like Many forces, High Magic is both one thing and many. In its fullest essence, High Magic is the direct energy of the Weave, the web of energy that sustains the planet's life (and tha tof enery living being upon it) and provides the source of magic for both wizards and Hgih Mages. Whereas wizardly magic pulls an infinitesimal bit of energy out of the Weave to harness its effects, High Magic Maintains the Weave but redirects and Manipulates the local flow of energy to achieve the effects of the ritual."
Ok then, I'll paraphrase some stuff here because this thread would go on forever, also, the following isn't necessarily required, but could be kept and still have a nice flavor to it.. especially if more were done on cooperative magics.. which would explain the champions teaming up magically to imprison thier master, but that would be less effective than the following..
There are three types of High Magic rituals, Rituals of Solitude, Rituals off Complement, and Rituals of Myriad..
Rituals of Solitude - simply put, one caster required for the effect, little danger in the casting, and little stress upon the Weave.
Ritual of compliment - three casters required, each mind is linked and defenseless to the other, each performing part of the casting, major repurcussions happen if an individual in the casting tries to disrupt things through that mental link. (not to mention its bad form).
Ritual of Myriad - At least 5 High Mages in a center circle, sometimes 9, with lesser High Mages supporting outside that, purification rituals are often an opening to these potent sorceries, normal wizards may also passively join and support the casting (through the help of the main caster) granting spell slot memory to bolster the casting..
Training -
Originally you had to be at least 450 years old, (to gain time to mature) 17th level and have a Con of 12 and Int "and" Wis of 18 to begin studying.. on Athas I'd step that up quite a bit..
Training time, at least 75-100 years but can be more.
"Students are taught meditative techniques to allow themselves to more readily feel, see, and sense the Weave around and within them. In essence, the apprenticeship teaches the student to look beyond the physical world without the use of spells or other devices."
"By concentrating on the flow of water; (a student) can learn how and where it moves, what forces are at play within it, and how any intervention affects that flow. Once students master that, they learn the same about wood smoke, meditating in a smoke lodge for months or years at a time until they can track the tiniest cinder into the sky above the trees. By the time a student learns to see the flow of incense, then wind, and then heat, he begins to see hints of the weave. Students then learn to focus on the sun, moon, and other celestial bodies. They study each in turn, watching them rise and set, following the flow of light, energy, and the many forces set forth by each in succession."
Abilities Gained from Training alone...
Detect Magic - for every hundred years over 500, two schools of magic can be identified, at 900, all 8 can be detected.
See through Illusion - your intelligence is regarded as 2 points higher for ignoring illusion (check the old 2e intelligence table for that) for those of intelligence of 24 and 25 that meant being able to see through 8th and 9th level illusions, something no other mortal caster could do. (Very handy for an Epic caster, especially with how Dragons love illusions upon themselves..
Spell Boost - a 2 point penalty to apponents saves, and their age added to a spells range in feet.
Hindrance - can't caste regular (1st - 9th) wizard spells prior to casting a High Magic Ritual. Magic items are ok though.
There are a variety of protections involved in casting High Magic, preventing disturbances, and there are a variety of High Magic rituals listed, which I won't place here (this is long enough already!) However, just to finish the last little bit.. there are serious dangers to a caster of High Magic, sometimes it takes his life to complete a casting, sometimes less serious but just as dangerous effects apply. However, earthchanging and world altering are the effects of High Magic..
I wouldn't mind seeing some of the above modified and placed in with regular Psionic Enchantments
but anyway, tell me what you think, remember, this was all written in 2e, so it would need some modification for 3.5, however I think the spirit of it is good, and would well fit Athasian Preserver wizards So, this is "something" like what I had in mind for a Land Touched Wizard Epic PrC
I'd take this thought and use it to enhance Avangion Psionic Enchantments or Epic Level casting.. like I said, an uber good guy PrC, while a Dragon could take the True Defiler PrC... what mods would you make? or would you toss it out all together???It's called "The Banishing, Binding Outside of the People's Lands" pg 137
In part I'll quote it here, sound "similar" to what binds Rajaat? You tell me
"The most Advanced form of this ritual fully banishes the entity permanently from (that realm) and confines said Physical Avatar in a subdimentional prison. All levels of binding must have one way to undo the binding set by the High Mages".
Now, there aren't any Deities or Avatars on Athas, so such a spell would be different that just described... but.. sounds kinda like what separated Rajaat and sealed him in a subdemension of the Black called the Hollow, don't you think??
(And I know the original ritual is also crafted to work on extraplanar creatures, work with me people
I'm going on spirit of the concept, not letter of the law :P)However, the original ritual did require hundreds to thousands of hit points to fuel the spell. (in this case, in the form of the caster's lives.) Dragons would of course, like all life leaches, steal the life energy from others ;)