So I was thinking about what the appropriate enchantment on a Karaash Sword might be - I've narrowed it down to the Wounding trait from the DMG (sword does additional CON damage), or the Maiming effect from the Miniatures Handbook (random crit multiplier), along with a suitable +1 or more enhancement bonus of course. Or do you think I should just assign the jagged blade a different damage die or a straight damage bonus?
How would you handle a Sword of Karaash in your 3.5 campaign?
Karaash Sword: The Karaash sword is a large exotic weapon in which one half of the blade is serrated with a number of toothed edges. Those with Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword) may wield this weapon as a normal greatsword. Those with Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Karaash sword) may use the serrated edge to deal extra damage on a critical (x3 instead of x2). Note that Weapon Focus and other weapon-specific feats taken for the Karaash do not apply when wielding a normal greatsword nor do the feats taken for the greatsword apply to the Karaash (unless the wielder foregoes the extra critical damage by wielding the weapon as a normal greatsword).
I think that works well for a non-magical version of the weapon. I would definitely add the Wounding ability and perhaps the keen trait if enhancing it through divine magic.
1. orcs living in Alphatia (how did they come there?)
2. a cult of Karaash in Alphatia (how did it begin?)
because that escapes me, really.. Alphatia isn't famous for its religious fervor, and humanoids make no exception.. and since I've been compiling a fairly major list of deities worshipped in all the countries, I couldn't see any humanoid cult surviving in Alphatia.
Just curious ;)
Ahem, not to be nitpicky, but... can you explain me exactly how come you have:
1. orcs living in Alphatia (how did they come there?)
2. a cult of Karaash in Alphatia (how did it begin?)
because that escapes me, really.. Alphatia isn't famous for its religious fervor, and humanoids make no exception.. and since I've been compiling a fairly major list of deities worshipped in all the countries, I couldn't see any humanoid cult surviving in Alphatia.
Just curious ;)
A land ruled by wizards, and you're asking how orcs come there? Who do you think they use as servitors?
Anyway, he said the Kingdom of Limn. It's in Dawn of the Emperors - I'm really surprised you're doing your religion list without having read that. One of the smaller Alphatian Kingdoms (they're more like provinces, really) is ruled by, IIRC, a dryad and a centaur, and is home to all sorts of nonhuman races that get spellcasting abilities. I don't believe the Tharian gods are widespread, but it's perfectly believable they'd have some traffic with Thar, through adventurers if nothing else. (Also, Alphatia *is* famous for its religious fervor, in a way, since clerics count as spellcasters and all spellcasters are held in high esteem there, unlike Glantri.)
Joe
A land ruled by wizards, and you're asking how orcs come there? Who do you think they use as servitors?
You're kidding Joe? They obviously use members of the races who dwell around their towers and can be subjected to their will (humans for the most part, and many created too). But humanoids? DO you really think Alphatia is full of noids? Last time I checked PWA, there weren't so many ... I'll doublecheck this data later, when I get my hands on my PWA ;)
Anyway, my question was: how did the noids get there? and When? Coz the whole history of modern noids has them living in only 2 continents by canon sources: Brun (where they're born) and Davania (where they migrate). I am not saying it's impossible for orcs to live in Limn, I just wanna hear your ideas on how come they got there and when
Anyway, he said the Kingdom of Limn. It's in Dawn of the Emperors - I'm really surprised you're doing your religion list without having read that.
eheh, you should expect the unexpected, Joe, always. ;)
On the contrary, I've done my homeworks well. I know that Limn is a strange and filled with multiracial towns and communities. It's the only country in Alphatia where monsters can walk around without the fear of being caged.. if they behave properly.
But that said, I still wonder how many orcs are there (noids in general) AND above all how come there's a cult of Karaash in a land so little concerned with warfare and honor as Limn (and in general all of Alphatia) is. Because you have to remember that Karaaash is only interested in warfare, bravery, tyranny and conquest.
One of the smaller Alphatian Kingdoms (they're more like provinces, really)
I beg to differ. They ARE KINGDOMS! Alphatia (continent) is divided into different regions, and each one functions as a separate nation, an independent kingdom in many aspects. They're much more independent than the provinces that make up the Thyatian Empire, that's clearly written in DotE and PWAs.
I don't believe the Tharian gods are widespread, but it's perfectly believable they'd have some traffic with Thar, through adventurers if nothing else.
Again, I fail to understand how Alphatia might have gotten in league with Thar, considering the Broken Lands is not even a nation ... I'm puzzled..
(Also, Alphatia *is* famous for its religious fervor, in a way, since clerics count as spellcasters and all spellcasters are held in high esteem there, unlike Glantri.)
I will quote some extracts from DotE (Book 3, Alphatia) to back up my point:
"You've doubtless gathered that the Alphatians are disinterested in most matters of the Immortals. That's true. There are few clerics in Alphatia..."
"Clerics are better-regarded in the colonies than Alphatia herself... the magic-user is top dog in Alphatia."
"There are several clerical orders in Alphatia, at least one per each of the Immortals described earlier. They're ill-attended and not politically important, but they're there."
The "immortals described earlier" are the few ones listed in DotE Book 3 (namely Alphatia, Koryis, Zirchev, Palartarkan, Eiryndul, Kagyar, Alphaks, Protius... ).
I believe that even though all spellcasters are considered aristocrats, there are some tiers in aristocracy, even among spellcasters, based on the "craft" considered more or less pure.
So on the lower tier you've got divine spellcasters (who are given their powers by higher beings), then you've got arcane spellcasters on the higher tier (who learn to master magic by themselves). And even among arcane spellcasters there might be two levels of importance: the lesser are the wizards (who study to master their spells), while the greater are the sorcerers (those born with natural attitude to magic), who have inherited the Alphatian ancestry of the glorious days of the first empire.
From the way Alphatia is described, it seems religion doesn't play a big part in its society. There will obviously be clerics and faiths, but they vary according to each kingdom and there are not many immortals worshipped in Alphatia (definitely less than those preached in the Known World).
For this reason I don't think it's likely that Karaash (a minor immortal, and an immortal of a very restricted species) would be known and have temples in Limn.
But again, I'm open to listen to suggestions on how to build up a Kaarash cult in Limn ;)
You're kidding Joe?
Uh, no?
They obviously use members of the races who dwell around their towers and can be subjected to their will (humans for the most part, and many created too). But humanoids? DO you really think Alphatia is full of noids? Last time I checked PWA, there weren't so many ... I'll doublecheck this data later, when I get my hands on my PWA ;)
Humanoids are traditional. For wizards of a certain mindset, they make more fitting servants. The wizards easily have enough resources to import some.
Anyway, my question was: how did the noids get there? and When? Coz the whole history of modern noids has them living in only 2 continents by canon sources: Brun (where they're born) and Davania (where they migrate). I am not saying it's impossible for orcs to live in Limn, I just wanna hear your ideas on how come they got there and when
Considering the capital of Limn is called "Trollhatten", I always just assumed there were trolls and similar living there... Is it so hard to believe that a band of humanoid shamans imported by some wizard for experiments got loose and ended up in Limn? Hell, even Alfheim has some monsters living there - I'd be astonished if there weren't some in Alphatia somewhere!
Again, I fail to understand how Alphatia might have gotten in league with Thar, considering the Broken Lands is not even a nation ... I'm puzzled..
We're not talking about Alphatia being allied with Thar! We're talking about once character who's a follower of Karaash! With all the variety that can be found throughout Alphatia, which is known for it's exporers even, why wouldn't someone have brought Karaash worship back to Limn?
Based on the fact that the character has been going to great effort to create a Karaash sword, I pictured them being an Alphatian orc who had come across Karaash worshippers somewhere and been intrigued by them, and was basically working out how to properly worship the god for himself.
I figure most of us agree that with the introduction of humanoid "classes" that Mystara's orcs are more intelligent and cunning that in other worlds (or atleast get played that way more often) What's to say a humanoid didn't get sick of being persecuted and hunted like a beast just for being what he is, and decided to migrate to a kingdom where all are welcomed on their merits regardless of how they look? If orcs are nearly as intelligent as humans and elves why is it assumed they spend all their non-raiding time sitting in a cave flinging punches and feces at each other?
Karaash's following isn't isolated in the brokenlands. It is assumed that anywhere there are humanoids there is possibility of his faith. this would extend to the regions that are near the coasts and are inhabited by humanoids. Why can't a troll build a boat if he had a mind to?
I have always believed that an immortal (or god) chooses their own. They decide who will be their instruments of divine favor. Whether that person decides to acknowledge this and pursue this course is totally up to them. They hear the calling but they do not have to listen. This orc could have heard his calling and simply taken up the faith, discovering as he went along how to do it. This could be an attempt to institute a new following (immortal plot). He could have been taught by an "old timer" who migrated from the mainland as well. This "old timer" could have been Karaash himself in mortal form.
Being as how this is obviously a small following I do not see the need for a full blown temple. Many people overlook the importance of shrines. It can function the same as a temple for the most part but doesnt need the resources (monetary or labor) that a temple would. There are many examples in history of the "state religeon" or the special God/Goddess of a city having the big temples but having many shrines to the others of a pantheon so as not to incurr their wrath for not being included. This can lead to building large temples later as the congregations (and their needs) become greater.
Clerics and religeon are some of the most looked-over and tricky subjects in fantasy. I believe that the situation in Alphatia is understated and over-simplified. (Might be a good subject for new thread?)
To me the question really isn't in the how as in the why.
As far as a cult of Karaash in Trollhattan goes, I never said there was one. DM just assumed it. In truth, the character grew up with a fascination with his orcish ancestry, and read anything he could find about orcish history, culture … and religion. He came to learn of Karaash of his own curiosity, and decided to take up the faith, making the journey to Brun in order to further his studies.
Nothing about this character violates any sacred canon source for Mystara. The player went out of his way to justify every aspect of the character's history and personality. Not that a cult of Karaash would have been a big deal anyway - the list of Immortals given in the Player's Guide to Alphatia is not exclusive.
To add to the Sword, I'd use Traianus' suggestions with the possible addition of an enchantment that causes damage from the sword curable only from magic (as it describes in the gaz).
However, and sorry for the insertion here Katana, but it would be interesting to have small populations under the continent of Alphatia, driven underground by the arrival of these Alphatians. Even more interesting is the possibility that they still exist in the floating continent in the Hollow World!
To add to the Sword, I'd use Traianus' suggestions with the possible addition of an enchantment that causes damage from the sword curable only from magic (as it describes in the gaz).
Oh, oh - this is the perfect application of vile damage (from the Book of Vile Darkness). I don't remember the exact effects, as I only thumbed through it in the store, but "not healing naturally" was one of them - I think it was even beyond that, and you needed really powerful healing spells to cure it.
Oh, oh - this is the perfect application of vile damage (from the Book of Vile Darkness).
Sounds pretty good, but I do not have the Book of Vile Darkness. I imagine that it would be quite expensive to create such a weapon, considering that Wounding from the DMG is listed as a +2 enhancement equivalent.
Oh, oh - this is the perfect application of vile damage (from the Book of Vile Darkness).
Let's see, vile damage, here it is... :evillaugh That could work...
Healing has to be done in conjunction with consecrate or hallow spells. It's a little more powerful than what I had in mind... but hehehehe...
Sounds pretty good, but I do not have the Book of Vile Darkness. I imagine that it would be quite expensive to create such a weapon, considering that Wounding from the DMG is listed as a +2 enhancement equivalent.
In Oriental Adventures, the Samurai class is able to sacrifice gold to upgrade their ancestral daisho as they go up in levels. (This is essentially to get around the problem that the fighter can keep swapping up to better weapons, but the Samurai who's using his family's sword for honour would either start with an overpowered weapon or be stuck with a crappy one later.) I believe it's balanced so that a Samurai using this ability will end up with the level of weapon recommended in the "creating higher level characters" section of the DMG.
So if you care about long term balance, you could make up a list of upgrades for the Karaash sword the player can purchase, so that he can get some abilities now and the cooler but more expensive ones when he can afford it. (I would probably just give him the cool abilities now, remember that I'll have to beef up the opponents to compensate, and not worry that I'm undercosting them, since it sounds like he's earned them through good RP. But that's because I usually play short campaigns so I'd never reach the high end of a long-term progression.)
Here's the Samurai's weapon table from the Rokugan sourcebook:
Ancencestral Daisho (variant):
...
At any time, a samurai may retreat to a temple or shrine and spend time in prayer to awaken the ancestral spritis in his katana or wakizashi. (Most samurai improve their katana, but nothing prevents a samurai from investing energy both weapons.) This requires the samurai to invest a bit of his own soul in the weapons, investing his own experience points as shown in the table below. The samurai must spend one day in prayer per 40 experience points spent, and must spend at least eight hours per day kneeling before the shrine and his weapons, pausing neither to eat or rest. The samurai may not spend experience points if doing so would cause him to lose an experience level, but he may choose not to advance in level for the purpose of investing his experience in his weapons.
...
Let's see, vile damage, here it is... :evillaugh That could work...
Healing has to be done in conjunction with consecrate or hallow spells. It's a little more powerful than what I had in mind... but hehehehe...
I would be reluctant to use vile damage. Vile damage is a result of overpowering evil that taints the wounds, which may or may not fit with the character (or Mystara in general). The Karaash sword's potential damage increase comes from its physical form (serrated edge)- weapon abilities that tie into that make much more sense to me.
I would like to use material from BoVD and BoED, but such strong associations with good/evil have not really been part of canon Mystara, so I haven't decided on what to use yet.
I've found the most appropriate stuff to be the drugs (Zzonga can't be the only drug those decadent Alphatians are partial too ) , unusual components (great for Glantrian wizards) and the new Cleric Domains. The Darkness domain is great for clerics of Nyx , the Corruption domain for Thanatos' clerics and I used the Bestial Domain for a cleric of Ranivorus.
I also used the Disciple of Mephistophles prestige class for a cult of Magian Fire Worshippers.
Here it is: non-magical Karaash swords use the same stats as standard swords of the same type, except they advance the damage dice one step down on the weapon damage by size table in the Player's Handbook. I think it's table 7-4, but I don't have my handbook with me at the moment.
Basically, for a medium size weapon, that means that a Karaash short sword would do 1d8 damage, a Karaash longsword does 1d10 damage (as mentioned in Orcs of Thar), and a Karaash greatsword does 2d8 damage.
Furthermore, only a faithful follower of Karaash (ie: listed as patron deity on his/her character sheet) can do the extra damage with the weapon, and only after a Shaman blesses it. Those who do not have Karaash as their patron deity find the weapons awkward and inefficient to use, doing only normal damage for a sword of its size and also suffering a -1 on the attack roll.
My reasoning is that I did not want to make it a Feat just to use the weapon, nor did I want to 'punish' my player for good roleplaying by sucking up one of his Feats. By making the extra damage a benefit of worshipping Karaash, I keep it from being abused by non-orcish PCs and maintain a bit of Mystaran flavor. Plus, I don't consider the damage bonus to be quite worth a Feat.
Enchanted Karaash swords will likely have the Wounding trait.
Well, I've finally come to a decision about what to do about Karaash swords in my campaign - thanks for all the suggestions.
I think you've made an excellent decision, IMHO. I'll be using it this way IMC from now on. I really like the alternative to making it a feat.
I will probably allow Orcs and Half Orcs to swap their Weapon Familiarity with the Double Axe for the Karaash sword though. I have never much liked the Double Axe anyway and this is a great way to introduce some more Mystaran flavour.
I think you've made an excellent decision, IMHO. I'll be using it this way IMC from now on. I really like the alternative to making it a feat.
Thanks, Hugin. I think it will make my player happy, at least - he's having a hard enough time choosing his next Feat as it is. This gives him one less selection to worry about.
I will probably allow Orcs and Half Orcs to swap their Weapon Familiarity with the Double Axe for the Karaash sword though.
I did consider making it a Feat, as well as a orc/half-orc racial weapon familiarity (half-orcs in 3.5 don't get any free racial weapon proficiencies in the PH, so it seemed fair). So even if I did make it an orcish racial weapon, it would still work out pretty much the same - except as a racial weapon, it would mean that half-orcs who don't follow Karaash would still get the extra damage.
The wounding effect was quite a shock to them! :D And greatly added to the "nasty" feel of the encounter :evillaugh
:-) Jesper
The wounding effect was quite a shock to them!
Very cool! So, how did your party do? I hope my idea wasn't responsible for too many PC deaths!
Very cool! So, how did your party do? I hope my idea wasn't responsible for too many PC deaths!
Well, the party's awesome thiefling barbarian fighting with a spiked chain decided to withdraw after just three rounds of fighting him :D By then he was down to 20% of his hit points and badly in need of healing!
We ended the session with a real cliff-hanger just then: six Alphatian bountyhunters teleported in and started blasting both sides of the battle with their spells! :evillaugh
:-) Jesper
We ended the session with a real cliff-hanger just then: six Alphatian bountyhunters teleported in and started blasting both sides of the battle with their spells! :evillaugh
:-) Jesper
OUCH! You really play rough - your players must love you! :D