A new approach to the Templar - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

A new approach to the Templar

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
terminus_vortexa
Apr 10, 2005 18:17:51 I realized something earlier today. A templar uses stolen energy from the Elemental Planes siphoned to him by a Sorceror King. Many templars also seem to have other vocations, such as wizardry and psionics, and maybe even roguery or just plain fighting. Wouldn't it make sense to use the Ur-Priest class as the Athasian Templar class (with minor variations) to free up the Templar to pursue other paths simultaneously? Also, it just seems to make sense to me that a Templar's capabilities with divine spellcraft should not be quite on par with a true Priest's, and the Ur-Priest seems just about perfect for the role I see the templars filling. This also allows for extreme city-based customization for the Templars, simply add a prestige class or even levels of soulknife or psychic warrior, and you have a fully developed divine spellcaster with a range of backup abilities to rely on. The fact that an Ur-Priest gets less spells per day than a true cleric also makes sense, since the SKs don't seem to enjoy being bothered for spell energy, especially Hamanu. It also seems to fit perfectly that the templar (ur-priest) gets higher level spells more quickly, since they are merely recieving their spells and not really drawing energy to use them on their own, they just recieve the spell ready for casting.
Thoughts, yea or nay?
#2
ruhl-than_sage
Apr 10, 2005 19:31:26 That seems like an overburdensome approach to make a Templar. On top of that you cannot have low level templars, because they need to qualify for the prestiege class first. Oh, and the Templars don't steal the magic or in fact have any real spellcasting ability of their own, like an Ur-Priest would. They merely recieve it from their Sorcerer-King who I think would much prefer to have his servants fully beholden to him rather than capable of their own feats of magic.

If you look at the Ur-Priest Prestiege class description it says they need Spell Focus (Evil) as a feat which requires them to be able to cast spells, but they cannot be capable of casting Divine spells. In order to furfill both of these requirements they would all have to be defilers and while the Sorcerer-Kings do have a few Defiliers that serve them, I doubt that the would want all of their Templars to be Defiliers, especially in the case of the Oba of Gulg.... I don't think the Creasant Forest would have lasted this long if they were.
#3
terminus_vortexa
Apr 10, 2005 19:50:05 OBVIOUSLY, it would require a little modification. As far as where they get their spell energy from. that part is FLUFF, which is mutable. Once again, I have to point out the separation of FLUFF and GAME MECHANICS . I chose Ur-Priest because of their rapid progression to high level spells, and their relatively few spells per day. So they get their spells from their SK, rather than stealing them. No big deal at all. It doesn't affect a thing. All one has to do is remove the requirement for the Spell Focus(Evil) feat, in exchange for eliminating the Steal Spell-Like ability gained at 10th Ur-Priest level,and grant them the Secular Authority ability, and you have a templar that is capable of rapid progression and diversification. Urikite templars can then take levels of Fighter or Psychic Warrior, in keeping with their military theme, and templars who lose their SK aren't at quite as large a disadvantage as they would be if a traditional 20 level class was used. Tyrian templars (before the fall) could focus on Psionics, etc. It leads to a much easier way to personalize them, especially in tandem with the Prestige Class document recently released. Also, let me clarify that the class would be called Templar, not Ur-Priest.
#4
ruhl-than_sage
Apr 10, 2005 19:59:35 Fair enough, I just thought I would point out some of the difficulties involved in case you hadn't thought about them. If you want to take your game in that direction then by all means...
#5
jon_oracle_of_athas
Apr 11, 2005 0:52:41 The Shadow Templars of Balic utilize the Ur-priest spell progression, though they get arcane spells.
#6
terminus_vortexa
Apr 11, 2005 7:03:04 That is one of the things that sent me along this line of thinking! :D
#7
ruhl-than_sage
Apr 11, 2005 19:11:35 Considering the changes you were thinking about. Having all your Templars have a solid background in Psionics, would make them much more effective as a police force. Especially in Clairsentience and Telepathy and it would garuntee a lawful alignment, which isn't bad for civil servants and administrators. I still don't think I would use that approach, but it does have merit, I must admit.
#8
terminus_vortexa
Apr 11, 2005 19:27:11 Using a 10 level templar class in tandem with a psionic or martial or even arcane background for each Templar also would help keep the City-States from falling into chaos after the events of Dregoth Ascending, as well (Assuming he isn't stopped before he does his Godhood Spells), because the Templars would have at least some form of strengths and abilities to rely on, instead of being essentially reduced to Commoners of various levels. Using this method would also help explain why the templars in Draj haven't completely lost control of the city, notwithstanding their agreement with the House of the Mind. Even without clerical spells, they could fake it well enough if they had a few levels of Defiler, Psion or Psychic Warrior, and a little creativity, thus making it believable that Atzetuk was a god, just like the people thought Tectuktitlay was. A few Egoists to heal, a few Clairsentients to pretend to use oracular divinatory magic, and nobody outside the loop would know a thing! :D
#9
jon_oracle_of_athas
Apr 12, 2005 11:00:40
Considering the changes you were thinking about. Having all your Templars have a solid background in Psionics, would make them much more effective as a police force. Especially in Clairsentience and Telepathy and it would garuntee a lawful alignment, which isn't bad for civil servants and administrators. I still don't think I would use that approach, but it does have merit, I must admit

I have toiled with the idea of a templar/telepath Inquisitor or Interrogator prestige class. I scrapped the draft though, wasn't satisified with it.
#10
ruhl-than_sage
Apr 14, 2005 22:16:54
I have toiled with the idea of a templar/telepath Inquisitor or Interrogator prestige class. I scrapped the draft though, wasn't satisified with it.

The SKs can always employ telepaths. I recently used a Telepath "Interrogator" in my game that was working for Hammanu and had been trained by him in the psionic arts. With the access to spells and abilities that SKs have the could easily train and employ just about any sort of Psion or Wizard themselves. There really isn't any point to making your Interrogators (or Defilers) Templars too. The multiclassing would just make them less effective agents.
#11
terminus_vortexa
Apr 15, 2005 8:37:36 One or two levels of templar wouldn't offset things too much, I think. It would just represent that they are indeed a Templar with secular authority, but their main focus in their service to their SK lies primarily in methods other than using Divine Magic. In rank terms, they'd be like a Warrant Officer. Equal to certain officer ranks, but tiered differently.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 terminus_vortexa Apr 10, 2005 18:17:51	I realized something earlier today. A templar uses stolen energy from the Elemental Planes siphoned to him by a Sorceror King. Many templars also seem to have other vocations, such as wizardry and psionics, and maybe even roguery or just plain fighting. Wouldn't it make sense to use the Ur-Priest class as the Athasian Templar class (with minor variations) to free up the Templar to pursue other paths simultaneously? Also, it just seems to make sense to me that a Templar's capabilities with divine spellcraft should not be quite on par with a true Priest's, and the Ur-Priest seems just about perfect for the role I see the templars filling. This also allows for extreme city-based customization for the Templars, simply add a prestige class or even levels of soulknife or psychic warrior, and you have a fully developed divine spellcaster with a range of backup abilities to rely on. The fact that an Ur-Priest gets less spells per day than a true cleric also makes sense, since the SKs don't seem to enjoy being bothered for spell energy, especially Hamanu. It also seems to fit perfectly that the templar (ur-priest) gets higher level spells more quickly, since they are merely recieving their spells and not really drawing energy to use them on their own, they just recieve the spell ready for casting. Thoughts, yea or nay?
#2 ruhl-than_sage Apr 10, 2005 19:31:26	That seems like an overburdensome approach to make a Templar. On top of that you cannot have low level templars, because they need to qualify for the prestiege class first. Oh, and the Templars don't steal the magic or in fact have any real spellcasting ability of their own, like an Ur-Priest would. They merely recieve it from their Sorcerer-King who I think would much prefer to have his servants fully beholden to him rather than capable of their own feats of magic. If you look at the Ur-Priest Prestiege class description it says they need Spell Focus (Evil) as a feat which requires them to be able to cast spells, but they cannot be capable of casting Divine spells. In order to furfill both of these requirements they would all have to be defilers and while the Sorcerer-Kings do have a few Defiliers that serve them, I doubt that the would want all of their Templars to be Defiliers, especially in the case of the Oba of Gulg.... I don't think the Creasant Forest would have lasted this long if they were.
#3 terminus_vortexa Apr 10, 2005 19:50:05	OBVIOUSLY, it would require a little modification. As far as where they get their spell energy from. that part is FLUFF, which is mutable. Once again, I have to point out the separation of FLUFF and GAME MECHANICS . I chose Ur-Priest because of their rapid progression to high level spells, and their relatively few spells per day. So they get their spells from their SK, rather than stealing them. No big deal at all. It doesn't affect a thing. All one has to do is remove the requirement for the Spell Focus(Evil) feat, in exchange for eliminating the Steal Spell-Like ability gained at 10th Ur-Priest level,and grant them the Secular Authority ability, and you have a templar that is capable of rapid progression and diversification. Urikite templars can then take levels of Fighter or Psychic Warrior, in keeping with their military theme, and templars who lose their SK aren't at quite as large a disadvantage as they would be if a traditional 20 level class was used. Tyrian templars (before the fall) could focus on Psionics, etc. It leads to a much easier way to personalize them, especially in tandem with the Prestige Class document recently released. Also, let me clarify that the class would be called Templar, not Ur-Priest.
#4 ruhl-than_sage Apr 10, 2005 19:59:35	Fair enough, I just thought I would point out some of the difficulties involved in case you hadn't thought about them. If you want to take your game in that direction then by all means...
#5 jon_oracle_of_athas Apr 11, 2005 0:52:41	The Shadow Templars of Balic utilize the Ur-priest spell progression, though they get arcane spells.
#6 terminus_vortexa Apr 11, 2005 7:03:04	That is one of the things that sent me along this line of thinking! :D
#7 ruhl-than_sage Apr 11, 2005 19:11:35	Considering the changes you were thinking about. Having all your Templars have a solid background in Psionics, would make them much more effective as a police force. Especially in Clairsentience and Telepathy and it would garuntee a lawful alignment, which isn't bad for civil servants and administrators. I still don't think I would use that approach, but it does have merit, I must admit.
#8 terminus_vortexa Apr 11, 2005 19:27:11	Using a 10 level templar class in tandem with a psionic or martial or even arcane background for each Templar also would help keep the City-States from falling into chaos after the events of Dregoth Ascending, as well (Assuming he isn't stopped before he does his Godhood Spells), because the Templars would have at least some form of strengths and abilities to rely on, instead of being essentially reduced to Commoners of various levels. Using this method would also help explain why the templars in Draj haven't completely lost control of the city, notwithstanding their agreement with the House of the Mind. Even without clerical spells, they could fake it well enough if they had a few levels of Defiler, Psion or Psychic Warrior, and a little creativity, thus making it believable that Atzetuk was a god, just like the people thought Tectuktitlay was. A few Egoists to heal, a few Clairsentients to pretend to use oracular divinatory magic, and nobody outside the loop would know a thing! :D
#9 jon_oracle_of_athas Apr 12, 2005 11:00:40	Considering the changes you were thinking about. Having all your Templars have a solid background in Psionics, would make them much more effective as a police force. Especially in Clairsentience and Telepathy and it would garuntee a lawful alignment, which isn't bad for civil servants and administrators. I still don't think I would use that approach, but it does have merit, I must admit I have toiled with the idea of a templar/telepath Inquisitor or Interrogator prestige class. I scrapped the draft though, wasn't satisified with it.
#10 ruhl-than_sage Apr 14, 2005 22:16:54	I have toiled with the idea of a templar/telepath Inquisitor or Interrogator prestige class. I scrapped the draft though, wasn't satisified with it. The SKs can always employ telepaths. I recently used a Telepath "Interrogator" in my game that was working for Hammanu and had been trained by him in the psionic arts. With the access to spells and abilities that SKs have the could easily train and employ just about any sort of Psion or Wizard themselves. There really isn't any point to making your Interrogators (or Defilers) Templars too. The multiclassing would just make them less effective agents.
#11 terminus_vortexa Apr 15, 2005 8:37:36	One or two levels of templar wouldn't offset things too much, I think. It would just represent that they are indeed a Templar with secular authority, but their main focus in their service to their SK lies primarily in methods other than using Divine Magic. In rank terms, they'd be like a Warrant Officer. Equal to certain officer ranks, but tiered differently.