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errata question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Apr 18, 2005 12:13:45 is KOD the only product with an officail errata? the only reason i ask is that i went through the DLCS last night and noticed a few things that didn't make much sense. For example the write up re: Derek Crownguard states he is a a Rose knight but his stat block says he is Noble 4/Ftr 4/ legendary tactician 2. If he doesn't hve any KOS levels how can he be a rose knight? Lord alfred is listed as having ftr/sword levels, yet Lord Gunthar has levels in Crown/Sword/Rose. Furthermore linsha is listed as having levels in Mystic/rogue and then all 3 levels as a knight, so why wouldn't Loerd Alfreds stats reflect his levels as a crown knight. basically what i'm getting at is there a reason why some of the knights have levels in each tier, while others don't? and if it is a mistake, has an errata been compiled for the DLCS and AOM books?
#2
Dragonhelm
Apr 18, 2005 12:53:46
For example the write up re: Derek Crownguard states he is a a Rose knight but his stat block says he is Noble 4/Ftr 4/ legendary tactician 2. If he doesn't hve any KOS levels how can he be a rose knight?

Membership in an organization is not dependent upon taking a prestige class. Crownguard didn't fit all the criteria needed to take the Rose Knight PrC, yet he was most definitely in the order. The rules as listed represent the ideal Crownguard.

Remember, in the "real world", nobody is asking what PrC you've taken. ;)

Also remember that some knights as presented in War of the Lance have taken the variant class levels presented in that book. At that time, there were no knightly spellcasters, ergo the variant class levels.

Hope that helps.
#3
zombiegleemax
Apr 18, 2005 13:42:16 sorry double post
#4
zombiegleemax
Apr 18, 2005 13:47:18 sorry tripple post
#5
zombiegleemax
Apr 18, 2005 13:50:34 I guess i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that you dont have to have the prc to be a KOS. afterall, and I know it is a much different organization, but you have to have at least 1 level of WOHS prc to play a high level mage(unless you go renegade) so why wouldn't at least 1 level of crown/sword/rose be required just to gain admittance in teh order?

when you consider the real world, for example i'm a mental health therapist, so to get my position(or therapist PRC if you will) certain requirements must be met like a degree in psychology, a state liscense, etc. so without meeting the prerequisite, you don't get the job. this can be extended to the military as they would be the closest real world example to the KOS. one cannot qualify to be a SEAL without being in the navy, or a green beret without being in the army.

if you apply the smae reasoning to Derek's stats its hard to justify, and in my case even envision him as a KOS at all, let alone a Rose knight. it kinda makes him even more of a hippocrit when you consider how he treated Sturm when he learned Sturm wasn't a KOS.

as far as teh variant rules in WOTL, I just got my copy last week, but haven't read that yet, so i will make it a priority, but why is it that every other knight detailed in AOM or DLCs has levels in KOS prc. I mean if you dont have to have these levels to be a KOS, why would Derk be the only one without it?

finally regarding my original question, is there an officail errata, or plans to do one. Thanks for all your help
#6
zombiegleemax
Apr 18, 2005 14:07:26 sorry for the triple post, my computers having issues.
#7
cam_banks
Apr 18, 2005 15:13:36
I guess i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that you dont have to have the prc to be a KOS. afterall, and I know it is a much different organization, but you have to have at least 1 level of WOHS prc to play a high level mage(unless you go renegade)

Actually, no you don't.

To be absolutely clear, in Dragonlance all of the prestige classes based on organizations are optional. They are contigent on you being a member already, or having passed some kind of trial, or having acomplished some quest. That membership is what matters. It is not the other way around. If this were the case, low-level characters would never run into any dark knights or legionnaires or Solamnics. The truth is, you can be a Solamnic knight of the Rose and still only be a 15th level fighter.

The reason you take the prestige classes is to show that your character has a significant investment in the organization or group, that they are benefiting from that investment, and that they are more iconic representatives of the order than the run-of-the-mill individual. A LG human wizard 10 and a LG human wizard 5/WoHS 5 can both be White Robes, for example, but one of them benefits from a closer alignment to Solinari, knows more secrets, and has promised himself more to the Order. The other one just hangs out with his fellow wizards, goes on long adventures, and doesn't really think too much about Solinari except when he's studying his spellbook or stargazing.

So, to summarize: you don't need to have levels in any of the classic DL prestige classes. It's just nice when you do.

Cheers,
Cam
#8
Dragonhelm
Apr 18, 2005 15:16:11
I guess i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that you dont have to have the prc to be a KOS.

I can quite understand. It's a bit hard to wrap your head around at first. I'll answer a few points below and hopefully that will help some.

afterall, and I know it is a much different organization, but you have to have at least 1 level of WOHS prc to play a high level mage(unless you go renegade) so why wouldn't at least 1 level of crown/sword/rose be required just to gain admittance in teh order?

All you have to do to be a Wizard of High Sorcery is to pass the Test. You could, theoretically, use straight wizard levels. That's a role-playing thing, not a rule mechanic.

when you consider the real world, for example i'm a mental health therapist, so to get my position(or therapist PRC if you will) certain requirements must be met like a degree in psychology, a state liscense, etc. so without meeting the prerequisite, you don't get the job. this can be extended to the military as they would be the closest real world example to the KOS. one cannot qualify to be a SEAL without being in the navy, or a green beret without being in the army.

Good point, but let me counter with another real-world scenario. Before I worked in advertising, I worked in TV. Now, I went through college, got my degree, worked at the station at the college and I got a job in TV afterwards. You might say I fulfilled the requirements of the broadcaster PrC. Yet I also worked with people who didn't have a degree or prior experience, and they too got a job. All of us are broadcasters, yet I was the one who met the requirements.

as far as teh variant rules in WOTL, I just got my copy last week, but haven't read that yet, so i will make it a priority, but why is it that every other knight detailed in AOM or DLCs has levels in KOS prc. I mean if you dont have to have these levels to be a KOS, why would Derk be the only one without it?

The various KoS PrCs are representative of what a knight should be. Not every knight, though, is a LG champion of justice. Some are corrupt, delusional, etc. How, then, does one represent those who don't meet the requirements of the PrC yet is a member of the organization.

One can also play Knights of Solamnia using base classes only. Remember that a Knight of Solamnia is a role within the world. Almost anybody can fit that role. The KoS PrCs are ways of portraying that role, but they are not the only way. And while they are the epitome of what a champion knight should be, not every knight meets those high moral standards.

finally regarding my original question, is there an officail errata, or plans to do one. Thanks for all your help

I'm not sure at this point. Jamie would have to answer that one.

Anyway, I hope that clears it up some. Just remember that a prestige class is but one way of playing a role, and that the role is what truly makes you a Knight fo Solamnia.
#9
zombiegleemax
Apr 18, 2005 21:13:47 I think that if a character was to make her/his way into one of DL's organizations, they would probably take the appropriate PrC. As before, they don't HAVE to, but it seems silly to me that they wouldn't if that's what they were interested in doing with their character. NPC's wouldn't need to have PrC levels if it didn't really match up with their character. That would be the DM's discretion.

---Tamora Amberleaf
#10
zombiegleemax
Apr 18, 2005 22:55:41 It may be a little off-topic, but you can most assuredly be a SEAL or Green Beret with out being a member of the U.S. Navy or Army respectivly. For instance, both units often take trainees from other U.S. or even foreign militaries, and will give those who pass the training their tabs and markings.

Also remember standards change with circumstance..... There were times when these units needed troops so badly you merely would have to volunteer and be willing to go on the mission. I imagine the Knights of Solamnia were a little less stringent during war-time. Remember, quests and traing are meaningless if you have been fighting next to a SEAL or Knight for the past few months.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Apr 18, 2005 12:13:45	is KOD the only product with an officail errata? the only reason i ask is that i went through the DLCS last night and noticed a few things that didn't make much sense. For example the write up re: Derek Crownguard states he is a a Rose knight but his stat block says he is Noble 4/Ftr 4/ legendary tactician 2. If he doesn't hve any KOS levels how can he be a rose knight? Lord alfred is listed as having ftr/sword levels, yet Lord Gunthar has levels in Crown/Sword/Rose. Furthermore linsha is listed as having levels in Mystic/rogue and then all 3 levels as a knight, so why wouldn't Loerd Alfreds stats reflect his levels as a crown knight. basically what i'm getting at is there a reason why some of the knights have levels in each tier, while others don't? and if it is a mistake, has an errata been compiled for the DLCS and AOM books?
#2 Dragonhelm Apr 18, 2005 12:53:46	For example the write up re: Derek Crownguard states he is a a Rose knight but his stat block says he is Noble 4/Ftr 4/ legendary tactician 2. If he doesn't hve any KOS levels how can he be a rose knight? Membership in an organization is not dependent upon taking a prestige class. Crownguard didn't fit all the criteria needed to take the Rose Knight PrC, yet he was most definitely in the order. The rules as listed represent the ideal Crownguard. Remember, in the "real world", nobody is asking what PrC you've taken. ;) Also remember that some knights as presented in War of the Lance have taken the variant class levels presented in that book. At that time, there were no knightly spellcasters, ergo the variant class levels. Hope that helps.
#3 zombiegleemax Apr 18, 2005 13:42:16	sorry double post
#4 zombiegleemax Apr 18, 2005 13:47:18	sorry tripple post
#5 zombiegleemax Apr 18, 2005 13:50:34	I guess i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that you dont have to have the prc to be a KOS. afterall, and I know it is a much different organization, but you have to have at least 1 level of WOHS prc to play a high level mage(unless you go renegade) so why wouldn't at least 1 level of crown/sword/rose be required just to gain admittance in teh order? when you consider the real world, for example i'm a mental health therapist, so to get my position(or therapist PRC if you will) certain requirements must be met like a degree in psychology, a state liscense, etc. so without meeting the prerequisite, you don't get the job. this can be extended to the military as they would be the closest real world example to the KOS. one cannot qualify to be a SEAL without being in the navy, or a green beret without being in the army. if you apply the smae reasoning to Derek's stats its hard to justify, and in my case even envision him as a KOS at all, let alone a Rose knight. it kinda makes him even more of a hippocrit when you consider how he treated Sturm when he learned Sturm wasn't a KOS. as far as teh variant rules in WOTL, I just got my copy last week, but haven't read that yet, so i will make it a priority, but why is it that every other knight detailed in AOM or DLCs has levels in KOS prc. I mean if you dont have to have these levels to be a KOS, why would Derk be the only one without it? finally regarding my original question, is there an officail errata, or plans to do one. Thanks for all your help
#6 zombiegleemax Apr 18, 2005 14:07:26	sorry for the triple post, my computers having issues.
#7 cam_banks Apr 18, 2005 15:13:36	I guess i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that you dont have to have the prc to be a KOS. afterall, and I know it is a much different organization, but you have to have at least 1 level of WOHS prc to play a high level mage(unless you go renegade) Actually, no you don't. To be absolutely clear, in Dragonlance all of the prestige classes based on organizations are optional. They are contigent on you being a member already, or having passed some kind of trial, or having acomplished some quest. That membership is what matters. It is not the other way around. If this were the case, low-level characters would never run into any dark knights or legionnaires or Solamnics. The truth is, you can be a Solamnic knight of the Rose and still only be a 15th level fighter. The reason you take the prestige classes is to show that your character has a significant investment in the organization or group, that they are benefiting from that investment, and that they are more iconic representatives of the order than the run-of-the-mill individual. A LG human wizard 10 and a LG human wizard 5/WoHS 5 can both be White Robes, for example, but one of them benefits from a closer alignment to Solinari, knows more secrets, and has promised himself more to the Order. The other one just hangs out with his fellow wizards, goes on long adventures, and doesn't really think too much about Solinari except when he's studying his spellbook or stargazing. So, to summarize: you don't need to have levels in any of the classic DL prestige classes. It's just nice when you do. Cheers, Cam
#8 Dragonhelm Apr 18, 2005 15:16:11	I guess i'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that you dont have to have the prc to be a KOS. I can quite understand. It's a bit hard to wrap your head around at first. I'll answer a few points below and hopefully that will help some. afterall, and I know it is a much different organization, but you have to have at least 1 level of WOHS prc to play a high level mage(unless you go renegade) so why wouldn't at least 1 level of crown/sword/rose be required just to gain admittance in teh order? All you have to do to be a Wizard of High Sorcery is to pass the Test. You could, theoretically, use straight wizard levels. That's a role-playing thing, not a rule mechanic. when you consider the real world, for example i'm a mental health therapist, so to get my position(or therapist PRC if you will) certain requirements must be met like a degree in psychology, a state liscense, etc. so without meeting the prerequisite, you don't get the job. this can be extended to the military as they would be the closest real world example to the KOS. one cannot qualify to be a SEAL without being in the navy, or a green beret without being in the army. Good point, but let me counter with another real-world scenario. Before I worked in advertising, I worked in TV. Now, I went through college, got my degree, worked at the station at the college and I got a job in TV afterwards. You might say I fulfilled the requirements of the broadcaster PrC. Yet I also worked with people who didn't have a degree or prior experience, and they too got a job. All of us are broadcasters, yet I was the one who met the requirements. as far as teh variant rules in WOTL, I just got my copy last week, but haven't read that yet, so i will make it a priority, but why is it that every other knight detailed in AOM or DLCs has levels in KOS prc. I mean if you dont have to have these levels to be a KOS, why would Derk be the only one without it? The various KoS PrCs are representative of what a knight should be. Not every knight, though, is a LG champion of justice. Some are corrupt, delusional, etc. How, then, does one represent those who don't meet the requirements of the PrC yet is a member of the organization. One can also play Knights of Solamnia using base classes only. Remember that a Knight of Solamnia is a role within the world. Almost anybody can fit that role. The KoS PrCs are ways of portraying that role, but they are not the only way. And while they are the epitome of what a champion knight should be, not every knight meets those high moral standards. finally regarding my original question, is there an officail errata, or plans to do one. Thanks for all your help I'm not sure at this point. Jamie would have to answer that one. Anyway, I hope that clears it up some. Just remember that a prestige class is but one way of playing a role, and that the role is what truly makes you a Knight fo Solamnia.
#9 zombiegleemax Apr 18, 2005 21:13:47	I think that if a character was to make her/his way into one of DL's organizations, they would probably take the appropriate PrC. As before, they don't HAVE to, but it seems silly to me that they wouldn't if that's what they were interested in doing with their character. NPC's wouldn't need to have PrC levels if it didn't really match up with their character. That would be the DM's discretion. ---Tamora Amberleaf
#10 zombiegleemax Apr 18, 2005 22:55:41	It may be a little off-topic, but you can most assuredly be a SEAL or Green Beret with out being a member of the U.S. Navy or Army respectivly. For instance, both units often take trainees from other U.S. or even foreign militaries, and will give those who pass the training their tabs and markings. Also remember standards change with circumstance..... There were times when these units needed troops so badly you merely would have to volunteer and be willing to go on the mission. I imagine the Knights of Solamnia were a little less stringent during war-time. Remember, quests and traing are meaningless if you have been fighting next to a SEAL or Knight for the past few months.