It'd be interesting if Telchur sided with Iuz in this conflict.
The barbarian chief Kabloona Starskull has The Edge hanging in his tent north of Kelten in Howl from the North. Harmonizer is in a polymorphed wooden case on the banks of a frozen river.
The critical point is when Karasten's invocation to the summon the Great God is interupted in Howl from the North. The Great God says the "rest of the spell was superflous." A clue suggesting he is not who he claims? Convenient how the scroll with the summoning spell turns to dust and the swords disappear. There really is no motivation for the PCs to attack the Great God. And, a huge battle is looming, literally moments away.
Good question, ripvanwormer, regarding Telchur.
Anyway, just a few ramblings about this topic.
But if that's what you want to happen, go for it. I just wish I could participate. My moniker sacked Rauxes during the Wars after foiling Iuz's plans. We didn't stick around mind you, just stole everything that wasn't bolted down and burned everything that was. I'd have loved to have fought alongside the real Vatun and stayed in Rauxes. :D
... if the PC's reunite the 5 blades and call Vatun, he banishes or destroys Iuz?
CT, I think what you are looking for is in Howl from the North. On page 51 it notes that the ritual of summoning of the Great God of the North is interupted by Iuz. The Old One disrupts the ceremony and poses as the Great God. It also notes that the Blades of Corusk, when together, can banish Iuz from Oerth. The text reads "... destroy Iuz, sending him back to the plane of his origin." That's why he scatters them from, literally, under the PCs' noses.
I noticed that while reviewing these two adventures, that the word Vatun isn't used in either. I don't think Vatun is mentioned until David Cook uses it in Greyhawk: Wars (see page 40). I might be wrong, though.
Anyway, Karasten only learns of the ritual near the end of Howl from the North. When he sees all five the weapons together, it occurs to him that they must be laid side-by-side in a particular order. Because, a different part of the incantation to summon or free the Great God of the North is written on each of the blades.
Does any of this help?
Plus If Iuz is confined to his home plane then that means he is still a deity, i.e. he can grant spells etc....He just has the same rules as other deities about manifesting on the prime, i.e. he must send an avatar.
Also does anyone know the status of soul gems in 3.5??? how long would Iuz be banished if his physical form were destroyed??
Anyways, what do you think of it as a plot hook....an epic race versus the agents of Iuz to reunite the blades against the back drop of the greyhawk wars.
I think it is a teriffic story line. Bringing in agents of Iuz in an effort to gain the weapons before the PCs is a great plot idea, I think.
In the published adventures, perhaps some more clues like that should have been provided. It seemed a bit too abrupt for the "ceremony" to end the way it does in boxed text in Howl from the North. Before that, there should've been more suggestions that another fell power (Iuz) was after the weapons.
Also, why would the Old One scatter the swords during the ritual? More likely, he teleported them to a deeply hidden and staunchly protected vault in Dorakaa, where their security is assured, rather then scattered hither and thither to be found by who only knows. Especially if they pose such a particular danger to him.
Also, clean up the history of this Great God of the North. Some of the language regarding him doesn't resonate with aspects of Suel barbarian history. Whoever he is, Vatun or not, he has not been a barbarian god for "thousands of years" as Five Shall be One says. The Suel barbarians have not been around that long in the northeast. I've read one account about how Vatun adapted the Suloise that were lost in the Hellfurnace Mountains. He offered them (cool) comfort and a path away from the Oeridians.
Just a few thoughts. The above are issues I would address if I were incorporating Five and Howl into my campaign. Another issue is the consequences of events at the end of Howl from the North. Do you allow Iuz to spark war in the Flanaess? If not he, then who? Do you want the Greyhawk Wars in your campaign? If so, these two adventures are the basis for the canonical events leading to the conflict.
Dang, I talk too much. I'm done, lol. Sorry about the long responses. Let us know what else we can offer, CT. And keep us posted on what you decide to do.
I've read one account about how Vatun adopted the Suloise that were lost in the Hellfurnace Mountains.
Yet he's related to the Suel pantheon, since he's the brother of Dalt. If he's been, for thousands of years, more interested in the lands of the North than the empire the rest of his family had adopted, I wonder what the reason might be.
Perhaps he was exiled for some crime, or some alleged crime.
Isn't Iuz native to the prime material plane? Why would banishing work then?
I thought he kept his soul in an amulet in the Abyss.
1, Leave the beginning of the war as it is and assume that the original characters summoned Iuz and not Vatun.
2, When Iuz teleports them away some force, a god, a group of god's, all the gods together keep Iuz from getting them since Nerull and Incabulous would agree thwart Iuz's plan to teleport them to Dorakka. They can only block his magic, not take them to their followers to perform the ritual so the blades teleport around randomly again. Originally in 2ed I was going to use a whole bunch of high level hiding places for them. Return to the Tomb of horrors, Isle of the Ape, Baba Yaga's hut, Put one in the temple in Paladin in hell, etc....
3, The PC's find can find out about the Legend of the Swords in many ways- They might come across a prophecy about them in the library at Greyhawk, some of the Barbarians might start talking about them after they realize they have been duped by Iuz, the God's of the PC's might give them visions. They might even find out through the agents of Iuz himself who are now desperately looking for the swords alaa the Nazgul in lord of the rings. Plus finding the swords distracts Iuz and keeps him busy during the war.
4, My original PC's were gnarley forest types, the first thing they had to do was travel to the Barbarian lands and find the original characters and get the info on the swords. Plus they needed to convince the Bard to come with them and use Dreamweaver again to find the other blades. The first thing they had to do was convince the Barbarians of their sincerity by slaying the Jarl of the Frost giants, i.e. G2. Just getting to the Barbarian lands during the middle of the war would be a huge pain and give a backdrop on the whole of the wars since they gotta go through Nyrons, Great Kingdom, etc...
5, Once they get the bard they gotta go get dreamweaver from Return to the tomb of horrors, this also means sailing from the north to the south and avoiding the Sea Barons....
6, The PC's had finished Vecna Lives and so I put Kas in charge of the Necromancers in that twisted swamp city.
7, Next they need to find Greenswaithe which is on the Isle of the Ape, which is not nearly as hard of an advernture with a ranger and druid to lead the way.
8, Then well things kind of pettered out, I'm thinking of switching it to 3.5....
Iuz is about a million times more powerful in 3rd edition than in second or first there he was on par with a demon prince and not much more.
Your campaign sounds pretty cool. I like that you've used all of the Big GH adventures as a backdrop to accomplish the Summoning of Vatun. I'm envious of your players, it sounds like fun.
Just my 2 cents, but here's a suggestion: I think Vatun sounds an awful lot like Wotan and by another small leap, Odin. If you're going to build Vatun from the ground up I'd suggest using the entire Norse pantheon for some inspiration if not outright plagarism. I was never satisfied with the Suel Pantheon (Kord just wasn't enough) oh so many years ago when I played Valkaun Dain, the misunderstood Northman hero who tread the streets of Greyhawk City in his furry boots. With much arm twisting I was allowed (begrudgingly) to use the Norse pantheon instead.
Being much older and wiser, if I were to do it again I would take that same Suel Pantheon and give them a "Thillonrian Makeover". In the Thillonrian Peninsula, Wee Jas, for example, with a little Hel mixed in, would more closely resemble a deity a Snow barbarian may not worship but at the very least revere and fear. Perhaps a twist in her name, Wejus or some such thing. Who's the Suel sea god? Procan? I can't remember, but you see my point, which I have just realized is probably of no use to you at all. Later.
Perhaps a twist in her name, Wejus or some such thing. Who's the Suel sea god? Procan? I can't remember, but you see my point, which I have just realized is probably of no use to you at all. Later.
Xerbo and Osprem. Procan is Oeridian.
I like your ideas a lot, though (since they're similar to my own). There could be Rhizian tales of Wee Jas hanging herself on the Tree of Life to find the secrets of magic on the far side of death; Xerbo and Osprem's relationship could resemble the marriage of Njord and Skadi (she was tricked into marrying him, their relationship was rocky, and ultimately she left him for another god). Vatun, Kord, and Llerg might have slaughtered the gods of the giants together as I recounted in this story.
Xerbo and Osprem. Procan is Oeridian.
I like your ideas a lot, though (since they're similar to my own). There could be Rhizian tales of Wee Jas hanging herself on the Tree of Life to find the secrets of magic on the far side of death; Xerbo and Osprem's relationship could resemble the marriage of Njord and Skadi (she was tricked into marrying him, their relationship was rocky, and ultimately she left him for another god). Vatun, Kord, and Llerg might have slaughtered the gods of the giants together as I recounted in this story.
Wow! That was pretty cool. DId you write that yourself or what? I felt a serious Greek mythology vibe while I was reading it too. Very cool.
DId you write that yourself or what?
I wrote it with the aid of my robot, Myth-o-Matic 1000, which lives in my brain.
The robot tells me that a stanza ought to have been added concerning Wee Jas. I agree.
Kord, Vatun, and Llerg conspired to slay Memnor,
Cast him down, end his reign.
With Phaulkon their father,
And Jascar and Fortubo, grandsons of Skoraeus,
The gods marshaled on Memnor’s castle in the clouds.
Long was the fight, full of terror and storming.
The blood fell like rain on the land.
The first plants bloomed, drinking rich godsblood.
Phyton, son of Hiatea, watched over the green.
Long was the fight, full of fury and weeping.
Great were the wounds of the gods.
Memnor worked evil magics upon them,
Terrible runes, baneful wyrds.
Exhausted, defeated, the gods fell back.
Dragged to their fortress, unable to move.
It was Wee Jas - IA! Wee Jas! - who hatched a plan to save them.
Crafty Wee Jas, daughter of Beltar and Vatun.
Hanging herself on the Tree of Life
She sought magics to equal those of ancient Memnor
Seven days she hung, seven days she wandered in Hell
Dark and profound, the runes of creation
On the far side of death, they burned in her brain.
She brought them back to the living, back to the gods,
Power to counter the old one, to break his enchantments,
While spears pierced his body, and swords tore his flesh.
Exhausted, defeated, it was Memnor who fell.
The gods cast Memnor down into Gehenna, the Furnaces,
The realm of fire and darkness and terrible malice.
Even the yagnadaemons avoided him, in his shame.
It was the morning of the gods, according to Lendor's ordering.
What ever floats your boat CT. However % shall be one and Howl from the north never revel the fifth blades location so your gonna have to add somethings if you want the fifth blade to be found.
On page 6 of the Atlas of the Flanaess, it's said that the fifth blade (Harmonizer) was never found but someone claiming to be Vatun appeared anyway, who was later revealed to be Iuz. So, I guess officially it's still locked in a wooden case polymorphed into a stone on the northern bank of the Frozen River...
My players have finally recovered all five of the Blades of Corusk (it took a few years to locate the fifth blade, but they found the other four rather quickly), but have no intention of slaying Iuz, for they know that Pazrael, an Abyssal lord, has designs on his empire and they have no desire to deal with him and his legions of demonic lackeys. Instead, they will let Iuz know they have the blades by sending simulacrums with copies of them; the Old One will recognize them and know they must truly have the blades in order to have made such copies. The adventurers have yet to decide on a list of demands, but the basic idea is to essentially render Iuz powerless under the threat of banishment to the Abyss for a century, since the blades can slay anyone falsely claiming to be Vatun.
Will this greatly change my campaign? In the long run, probably not; Iuz is dependent on the Soul Husks for his demigod status, and should they be destroyed, he reverts to nothing more than a cambion. Thus, there are two ways to emasculate Iuz, and that must worry him greatly...
I came across a little gem in the FR Faiths & Avatars (pp. 176-177): during the Time of Troubles, Waukeen sought to escape Toril and shed her mantle of divinity, leaving it in the care of Lliira; as she made her way back home, she was captured by Graz'zt, who is none other than the father of Iuz. Once Ao lifted his restrictions and the Powers could leave Toril, Lliira was still in possession of Waukeen's divinity...
In my campaign, Iggwilv is still alive and a behind-the-scenes player in her son's demonic Empire, and she surely knows of Waukeen's predicament. If she can devise a way to deceive Lliira and claim Waukeen's divinity as her own and then give Iuz true demigod status, that will effectively cancel out any power the Blades of Corusk have over him. The Soul Husks would no longer be necessary and with his own mother a lesser goddess, they could carve out a place of their own in the Lower Planes far out of the reach of the adventurers and the blades...
This is something I've been planning for years now, and since the players have all five blades, it looks like things are going to get very interesting. Iuz will still be a demigod and a major bad guy and will continue to cause trouble for the Flanaess, but will instead rule over his Empire from a little farther afield than Dorakaa on Oerth...
What ever floats your boat CT. However % shall be one and Howl from the north never revel the fifth blades location so your gonna have to add somethings if you want the fifth blade to be found.
Wrong. All five blades' locations are revealed on p.46 of WGS2.
My impression and the way I ran it, was that Vatun and Dalt become gods sometime after their houses fled the Suel Imperium. In that case it makes no sense that the Blades of Corusk would be a singular summoning spell that can only be read when the blades are set down together. (Which I think is incredibly silly even if the Thillonrian's still had a lot of arcane magic-users.) In my game the blades each had a power that had to be used to free Vatun at the appropriate time. He was sealed away inside a peak of the Corusks and only a group of adventurers that had the blades would get by all of Telchur's traps and monstrous guardians. Eventually they would have to make their way into the middle of the peak and with the 5 blades were able to use the planar gate which took them to Telchur's demiplane prison.
Not that this happened of course, before finding the 5th blade Iuz appears in Vatun's guise and creates an army from the barbarian host and Stonefisters.
I came across a little gem in the FR Faiths & Avatars (pp. 176-177): during the Time of Troubles, Waukeen sought to escape Toril and shed her mantle of divinity, leaving it in the care of Lliira; as she made her way back home, she was captured by Graz'zt, who is none other than the father of Iuz. Once Ao lifted his restrictions and the Powers could leave Toril, Lliira was still in possession of Waukeen's divinity...
FYI you can read all about that in the FR Adventure "For Duty & Deity" which is available as a free pdf download from WotC. It also includes a lot of info on GRaz'zt
Wrong. All five blades' locations are revealed on p.46 of WGS2.
Which was published first FtA or WGS2?
Mike
FYI you can read all about that in the FR Adventure "For Duty & Deity" which is available as a free pdf download from WotC. It also includes a lot of info on GRaz'zt
That was why I got one.
Which was published first FtA or WGS2?
Mike
Five Shall be One was published in 1991. From the Ashes has a copyright of 1992. I think the modules were supposed to lead into the boxed set.
I remember 1991's releases with fond nostalgia. Those were the days!
Kwint
The lamest part of these modules is the fact that the blades were created specifically to free Vatun and yet the runes on the sword blades form an arcane spell. Now I guess this might be viable if the blades were created at some point when those Suel houses still had mages [Fruztii, Schnai, Cruski] but that's not the impression that I had. I completely changed the ending of the module when I ran it.
My impression and the way I ran it, was that Vatun and Dalt become gods sometime after their houses fled the Suel Imperium. In that case it makes no sense that the Blades of Corusk would be a singular summoning spell that can only be read when the blades are set down together. (Which I think is incredibly silly even if the Thillonrian's still had a lot of arcane magic-users.)
I'd never really thought about it too deeply, but since it detailed events 19 years prior IMC, I just glossed over it and used Howl from the North as an historical sourcebook rather than as a current adventure and am basing subsequent happenings on the fact that the blades are able to slay anyone falsely claiming to be Vatun. Since my players have no intention or even interest in awakening Vatun, I guess the inconsistencies are not really that relevant to my campaign.
FYI you can read all about that in the FR Adventure "For Duty & Deity" which is available as a free pdf download from WotC. It also includes a lot of info on GRaz'zt
Thanks! I shall have to check that out. Being a diehard Greyhawker, I've never played FR, but picked up Faiths & Avatars many years back since it detailed a lot of new spells (I'm always on the lookout for more...). Other than that basic outline on Waukeen and Graz'zt, I know nothing more, so I'll be checking it out for more ideas...
The five blades, when assembled, spell out a ceremony (in Ancient Suloise, of course) which creates a gateway. Being attuned to Vatun, they can generate a passage to his present location, no matter where it is or how warded it is. The trick is that to open the gate, you need the power of Vatun's brother (either a high level cleric of Dalt casting a Knock spell or, perhaps, the Silver Key of Portals which Mordenkainen owned for a time (as shown in WG5))