So, here goes...I have a PC who has taken the shifter prestige class from "Masters of the Wild". Our group has been debating back and forth about what kind of abilities a druid shifter can and cannot have while in a shifter form. Are any of the abilities associated with a particular form accessible to the shifter beyond physical attacks? For example:
(potential shifter form- do they have the ability)
beholder- levitation (means of locomotion); anti-magic field for the central eye, spell stalks
dragon- breath weapon
ooze (any)- cold/acid damage (argument for is this is also their means of digestion, but a 'magical' attack)
etc etc etc
so does that mean if the shifter morphs into a fearsome beholder s/he has to roll around on the ground? :P heh...don't have my MM on me and can't recall if their levitation is (ex) or (sp).
The beholder's flight power is an extraordinary ability which does not fall into the categories of extraordinary special attack forms or mundane movement abilities, and so is not acquired under the spell descriptions for alter self and polymorph in the Player's Handbook 3.5. Hence, according to the letter of the rules, the shifter should seem not to possess this ability.
On second thoughts, the druid's elemental wild shape power does confer all extraordinary, supernatural and spell-like abilities, and arguably the same should apply to the shifter's magical beast, aberration, dragon and outsider wild shapes . Furthermore, the Magical Beast Wild shape and Dragon Wild shape epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook also confer supernatural (and in the case of the dragon form, extraordinary) abilities; the shifter's transformation powers could be trated as "virtual feats" in this respect. In any case, there seems to be little advantage in being able to assume the form of a magical creature, if you do not actually get any magical abilities!
In any case, there seems to be little advantage in being able to assume the form of a magical creature, if you do not actually get any magical abilities!
Thanks, very informative. I'm playing the druid/shifter in a FR campaign (druid 9/shifter 7) and have gotten up to the dragon form. While the character cannot use breath weapons or innate magical abilites, sometimes the physical attributes of the forms themselves are well worth it (especially flight for the dragon). With the dragon form, you can have up to 6 attacks a round, with a +23 or more to attack (thanks to the size class open to the dragon form at shifter lvl 7- huge IIRC). And with a background as a druid, still be able to cast spells. It's like having an uber fighter casting attack AND limited healing spells all in one package.
The common sense calls to "the druid and momf levels stack for the matter of wild shape" but theres no reference in the book, the example usas a diferent duration, wich one is incorrect
The shifter prestige class has been updated in the book complete adventurer, now its called "Master of many forms" p59, give it a look you'll find all your answers there, just a lil thing its unclear... the duration and limit of improved wild shape, look at the example, druid5/momf2, wild shape duration... 5 hours, not seven, that makes me think about the stacking of this Improved wild shape and the common wild shape, do they stack? if they dont thats just ridiculous, but if they stack why the duration is 5 hours and not 7, whats the limit HD for this wild shape, also theres no note in the book that especifies that they stack, but thats an update for the 3.0 class, when they used to stack...
The common sense calls to "the druid and momf levels stack for the matter of wild shape" but theres no reference in the book, the example usas a diferent duration, wich one is incorrect
Yeah, I saw that, and aside from a select handful of abilities, it really pales in comparison to the Shifter. The Shifter has almost twice as many forms and variations to choose from AND the shifter levels stack with the druid levels for determining length of time a character can maintain a given form.
If as a druid, I'm giving up spell-casting, I better get something for that lost ability than a mere handful of forms. I kinda thought the MoMF was a bit of rip-off for what ya got. :P
Yeah, I saw that, and aside from a select handful of abilities, it really pales in comparison to the Shifter.
I think the designers were a little concerned that the shifter was too powerful and unbalanced. In a way, they're right, but it's hard to strike that balance with classes like that.
Cheers,
Cam
I think the designers were a little concerned that the shifter was too powerful and unbalanced. In a way, they're right, but it's hard to strike that balance with classes like that.
Cheers,
Cam
Yeah, it's a little rough to balance, but then again, the druid is giving up all advancement in spell casting ability for the prestige class, plus the extra feat-like abilities granted by the base class. That's a pretty big thing to give up, so what you get in return should be something worth it. Plus, advancing as a shifter means giving up the elemental form you get as a high level druid, which has all the powers and abilities of a true elemental IIRC. Somthing none of the shifter forms can provide. Your also giving up dire animal forms as well.
The shifter, while providing lots of forms to chose from, only gives shapes that may increase number of attacks or damage depending on the form chosen, since none of the forms confer any special abilities really. The one exception is the undead form where it specifically says you can take an incorporeal form. In dragon form, the druid shifter does almost as much damage as an equivalent level fighter, but doesn't have the fighter's hit points, and that is arguably the uber form for the shifter.
My advice is that if you are playing 3.5 use the updated classes for 3.5, if you dont do it funny things will happen at higher levels, believe me, i've been there
There is also the point that if you are playing in 3.5 with a class of 3.0 you will upset the balance in the game because almost every class has been updated to fit in the current rules, is like playing a 3.0 archmage in 3.5 because they nerfed the spell powers, they did it because in the new system all the spells and prestige classes were adjusted to stay in the balance with the new rules.
My advice is that if you are playing 3.5 use the updated classes for 3.5, if you dont do it funny things will happen at higher levels, believe me, i've been there
Not a problem, I've been playing RPGs for about 20 years or so, and as a group, we generally reach a consensus on different classes, abilities and spells before just going with it, so things don't get TOO far out of hand. Using a class from 3.0 in 3.5 won't exactly be a 'game-buster'. ;)