Ochalean Pantheon - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Ochalean Pantheon

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Apr 28, 2005 11:06:16 Well, this is a topic we've already discussed a bit on the Italian MMB, but I wanted to introduce it here as well.

From what we gather by the info presented in DotE, the Ochaleans worship especially Koryis, and their society is highly based on scholarship, traditions and religious belief. Ochalea resembles closely imperial China, even though we know that it's made up of religious or common ALPHATIANS who left Alphatia when they understood the only way to be respected in a magocracy was to leave the magocracy altogether ;)

I have then taken as base the model developed by Kit Navarro to create an Ochalean pantheon similar to the Chinese Celestial Bureocracy and the Yin/Yang philosophy.
The background of this decision is the following: when the Alphatians landed on Mystara, the Ochalese ethnic group took advantage of the chaos ensuing the colonisation of the Alphatian mainland to sail southwards. They ended up in the big island which was later renamed Ochalea around BC900.
Back in Old Alphatia the Ochaleans followed the philosophy of Yin and Yue, the dualism of opposites which created the universe and favoured its balance. When they came to Mystara and Immortals became more and more known among them, this philosophy turned into a religion, where each deity took its place in a specific cosmic Court that reflected the philosophy of Yin and Yue. This way the Ochalean Celestial Court was formed, an ordered cosmology which reflects the eternal balance between Yin and Yue on the three most important axis:
Law and Chaos
Good and Evil
Male and Female

Here's then the Celestial Court, ruled by a Divine Emperor and a Divine Empress which are the embodiment of Yin and Yue:

Emperor of Peace: Koryis (LG)
Empress of Strife: Talitha (CE)

They are advised by a body call the Council of the Four Savants (all rigorously Neutral immortals), each representing one of the four spheres (as Koryis dictated them):
Noumena (Thought)
Great Dragon (Matter)
Khoronus (Time)
Idraote (Energy)

Under them, the Court is made up of 14 ministers, each of them governing a specific ministry in contraposition to that of his or her own twin. The 14 Ministers are:

LG female: Terra (birth) vs CE male: Thanatos (death)
(or LG f Alphatia [creation] vs CE m Alphaks [destruction], I'm still considering this hypothesis)

NG f: Arnelee [virtue] vs NE m: Brissard or Masauwu [deceit]

NG m: Ixion [light] vs NE f: Nyx [darkness]

CG f: Valerias [love] vs LE m: Kurtulmak??(hard to find a male LE deity in Mystara!) [cruelty]

CG m: Korotiku [freedom] vs LE f: Aracne Prime [oppression]

LN f: Tarastia [order] vs CN m: Faunus [instincts]

LN m: Ssu-ma [scholarship/planning] vs CN f Tyche [fate]

Obviously I haven't made up yet Ochalean names for these deities as Kit did, but I'd like to hear your opinion on them
PS: I hope you do recognize at least half of these immortals ;)
#2
zombiegleemax
Apr 28, 2005 14:02:10
Under them, the Court is made up of 14 ministers, each of them governing a specific ministry in contraposition to that of his or her own twin. The 14 Ministers are:

LG female: Terra (birth) vs CE male: Thanatos (death)
(or LG f Alphatia [creation] vs CE m Alphaks [destruction], I'm still considering this hypothesis)

I love it! On the one hand, it makes sense for and Alphatian offshoot to make Alphatia part of their pantheon, but I think on the whole Terra and Thanatos work better than Alphatia and Alphaks - Alphaks just doesn't feel right to ever fit into a bureaucracy, even as lord of destruction. He's too single-minded. And nobody openly worships Alphaks. (Hmm, although I guess if Ochalea is the only place in the world where Alphaks is openly worshipped, people's reactions to it would be interesting - Alphatians would despise it, which is just one more reason to hate Thyatis, and other Thyatians might be seriously pleased. It would be a major haven for the Alphaks cultists there. Ok, now I've argued myself into the opposite of what I meant to post.)
#3
zombiegleemax
Apr 29, 2005 7:18:35 Anybody else wants to comment, especially on the Alphatia-Alphaks or Terra-Thanatos choice?
Oh, btw, Terra-Thanatos is a viable choice as long as you consider Terra LG and not LN (as much as I do) . ;)
#4
spellweaver
Apr 29, 2005 9:09:45 I like it. And I would use Terra and Thanatos. Other than that, I don't have a comment. But keep up the interesting ideas!

:-) Jesper
#5
zombiegleemax
May 02, 2005 11:09:59 It wouldn't be unusual in a Chinese-cultural context for both Alphatian and Mystaran immortals to be venerated. What is official at any one time probably depends on what dynasty is in power. Is it pro-Alphatian culture or pro-Mystaran? If it's pro-Imperial Thyatian then those Immortals prominent in Thyatis will get more promotion than others. And there is always the difference between what city-folk do and what the "real people" in the country-side do - ie the Great Tradition vs the Little Tradition. Have it both ways and keep them all.

My answer, with Teng Lin-Dieu in power, is that he probably has a power struggle on his hands if you take into account the secession in WotI and now rejoining the Imperium. Therefore his ministers are probably fighting this debate out amongst themselves.
#6
zombiegleemax
May 13, 2005 2:44:19 Okay after some revising and discussions on the IMMB (Italian Mystara Message Boards :P ), this is the final draft of my Celestial Court. Note that I used an online Chinese-English dictionary to come up with Ochalean sounding names for Immortals, and took only small liberties in a couple of cases:

Emperor Kor Si-Yi (Koryis): He who thinks and rules
Empress Ta Liu Ai-Tan (Talitha): She who sows bitter suffering

The Four Advisors (each one representing one of the elements that make up the universe and the living being):
Nian-Mai Si-Xiang (Noumena for Thought): Ancient thinker
Fu Shi Liu (Khoronus for Time): Father of the time that flows
Hen-Hao Ten (Idraote for Soul/Energy): Source of good health/spirit
Wei Long (Great One for Matter): Great Dragon

The 14 Ministers:
Xi-Yang (Ixion): Bringer of daylight
Nu-Shi Hei-An (Nyx): Lady of darkness
Yao-Lan Zi (Alphatia): Cradle of beauty
Hui Da-Zhi (Alphaks): Forge of destruction
An-Ying Zhu Hou (Aracne Prime): Spider Queen of shadows
Guan Zi-You (Korotiku): Guardian of freedom
Han Li (Arnelee): Keeper of virtue/reason
Ba Pian-Shu (Brissard): Master of deceit
Ta Lai Si-Fa (Tarastia): She who grants justice
Fu Han Qing (Faunus): Father that shakes passions
Ta Qi Ming (Tyche): She who spins fate
Ssu-Ma: Venerable sage
Biao Hun Xi-Ai (Valerias): Shining spirit that loves
Chai Shi Hui (Luup): Ravenous beast that devours

And here are the immortals who got specialty priests in Ochalea:

Koryis: peace, prosperity, dimplomacy, tolerance, respect the laws
Ssu-Ma: Knowledge, memory, education, history, writing, magic, scholars and sages
Ta Lai Si-Fa (Tarastia): Law, order, truth, justice and just vengeance
Mao You-Li (Saimpt Malinois), Powerful spear : Lupins, war, hunting, bravery, arms and armorers, wereslayers
Nin Fang-Li (Ninfangle), You watch over us : Rakasta, bravery, adventure, travels, battle, hunting
Wei Long (Great Dragon): Creation, cosmic order, magic, dragons
Dou Shang (Thor), King of battle: War, battle, honor, courage
An-Ying Zhu Hou (Aracne Prime) : Spiders and aranea, deceit, oppression, darkness
Chai Shi Hui (Luup): Death, cruelty, survival of the fittest, winter, night, clan loyalty
Pharamond: magic, egoism, cleverness, ogre-magi

Notes:
1. Ochaleans for the most part follow the philosophical faith of the Celestial Court, so they worship all together the deities that make up this pantheon. However, some of these immortals get individual cults as well because they are so much popular in the island. In particular, Koryis is considered overall patron of Ochalea, Ssu-Ma is the patron of civilization and knowledge, and the Great Dragon is patron of cosmic balance and wisdom.
2. Tarastia is one of the few Thyatian deities whose personal faith has a strong appeal to the Ochaleans and the Thyatian dwellers in the island alike.
3. Malinois is the patron of all Ochalean lupins, with the exception of the scholarly Chow-chow who follow Ssu-ma, and of the warlike Shar-pei who worship Thor. Also most lupins do revere and respect Loup, merciless patron of death, strength and winter.
4. Aracne Prime is worshipped by a cult of assassins led by aranea who pose as Ochaleans.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Apr 28, 2005 11:06:16	Well, this is a topic we've already discussed a bit on the Italian MMB, but I wanted to introduce it here as well. From what we gather by the info presented in DotE, the Ochaleans worship especially Koryis, and their society is highly based on scholarship, traditions and religious belief. Ochalea resembles closely imperial China, even though we know that it's made up of religious or common ALPHATIANS who left Alphatia when they understood the only way to be respected in a magocracy was to leave the magocracy altogether ;) I have then taken as base the model developed by Kit Navarro to create an Ochalean pantheon similar to the Chinese Celestial Bureocracy and the Yin/Yang philosophy. The background of this decision is the following: when the Alphatians landed on Mystara, the Ochalese ethnic group took advantage of the chaos ensuing the colonisation of the Alphatian mainland to sail southwards. They ended up in the big island which was later renamed Ochalea around BC900. Back in Old Alphatia the Ochaleans followed the philosophy of Yin and Yue, the dualism of opposites which created the universe and favoured its balance. When they came to Mystara and Immortals became more and more known among them, this philosophy turned into a religion, where each deity took its place in a specific cosmic Court that reflected the philosophy of Yin and Yue. This way the Ochalean Celestial Court was formed, an ordered cosmology which reflects the eternal balance between Yin and Yue on the three most important axis: Law and Chaos Good and Evil Male and Female Here's then the Celestial Court, ruled by a Divine Emperor and a Divine Empress which are the embodiment of Yin and Yue: Emperor of Peace: Koryis (LG) Empress of Strife: Talitha (CE) They are advised by a body call the Council of the Four Savants (all rigorously Neutral immortals), each representing one of the four spheres (as Koryis dictated them): Noumena (Thought) Great Dragon (Matter) Khoronus (Time) Idraote (Energy) Under them, the Court is made up of 14 ministers, each of them governing a specific ministry in contraposition to that of his or her own twin. The 14 Ministers are: LG female: Terra (birth) vs CE male: Thanatos (death) (or LG f Alphatia [creation] vs CE m Alphaks [destruction], I'm still considering this hypothesis) NG f: Arnelee [virtue] vs NE m: Brissard or Masauwu [deceit] NG m: Ixion [light] vs NE f: Nyx [darkness] CG f: Valerias [love] vs LE m: Kurtulmak??(hard to find a male LE deity in Mystara!) [cruelty] CG m: Korotiku [freedom] vs LE f: Aracne Prime [oppression] LN f: Tarastia [order] vs CN m: Faunus [instincts] LN m: Ssu-ma [scholarship/planning] vs CN f Tyche [fate] Obviously I haven't made up yet Ochalean names for these deities as Kit did, but I'd like to hear your opinion on them PS: I hope you do recognize at least half of these immortals ;)
#2 zombiegleemax Apr 28, 2005 14:02:10	Under them, the Court is made up of 14 ministers, each of them governing a specific ministry in contraposition to that of his or her own twin. The 14 Ministers are: LG female: Terra (birth) vs CE male: Thanatos (death) (or LG f Alphatia [creation] vs CE m Alphaks [destruction], I'm still considering this hypothesis) I love it! On the one hand, it makes sense for and Alphatian offshoot to make Alphatia part of their pantheon, but I think on the whole Terra and Thanatos work better than Alphatia and Alphaks - Alphaks just doesn't feel right to ever fit into a bureaucracy, even as lord of destruction. He's too single-minded. And nobody openly worships Alphaks. (Hmm, although I guess if Ochalea is the only place in the world where Alphaks is openly worshipped, people's reactions to it would be interesting - Alphatians would despise it, which is just one more reason to hate Thyatis, and other Thyatians might be seriously pleased. It would be a major haven for the Alphaks cultists there. Ok, now I've argued myself into the opposite of what I meant to post.)
#3 zombiegleemax Apr 29, 2005 7:18:35	Anybody else wants to comment, especially on the Alphatia-Alphaks or Terra-Thanatos choice? Oh, btw, Terra-Thanatos is a viable choice as long as you consider Terra LG and not LN (as much as I do) . ;)
#4 spellweaver Apr 29, 2005 9:09:45	I like it. And I would use Terra and Thanatos. Other than that, I don't have a comment. But keep up the interesting ideas! :-) Jesper
#5 zombiegleemax May 02, 2005 11:09:59	It wouldn't be unusual in a Chinese-cultural context for both Alphatian and Mystaran immortals to be venerated. What is official at any one time probably depends on what dynasty is in power. Is it pro-Alphatian culture or pro-Mystaran? If it's pro-Imperial Thyatian then those Immortals prominent in Thyatis will get more promotion than others. And there is always the difference between what city-folk do and what the "real people" in the country-side do - ie the Great Tradition vs the Little Tradition. Have it both ways and keep them all. My answer, with Teng Lin-Dieu in power, is that he probably has a power struggle on his hands if you take into account the secession in WotI and now rejoining the Imperium. Therefore his ministers are probably fighting this debate out amongst themselves.
#6 zombiegleemax May 13, 2005 2:44:19	Okay after some revising and discussions on the IMMB (Italian Mystara Message Boards :P ), this is the final draft of my Celestial Court. Note that I used an online Chinese-English dictionary to come up with Ochalean sounding names for Immortals, and took only small liberties in a couple of cases: Emperor Kor Si-Yi (Koryis): He who thinks and rules Empress Ta Liu Ai-Tan (Talitha): She who sows bitter suffering The Four Advisors (each one representing one of the elements that make up the universe and the living being): Nian-Mai Si-Xiang (Noumena for Thought): Ancient thinker Fu Shi Liu (Khoronus for Time): Father of the time that flows Hen-Hao Ten (Idraote for Soul/Energy): Source of good health/spirit Wei Long (Great One for Matter): Great Dragon The 14 Ministers: Xi-Yang (Ixion): Bringer of daylight Nu-Shi Hei-An (Nyx): Lady of darkness Yao-Lan Zi (Alphatia): Cradle of beauty Hui Da-Zhi (Alphaks): Forge of destruction An-Ying Zhu Hou (Aracne Prime): Spider Queen of shadows Guan Zi-You (Korotiku): Guardian of freedom Han Li (Arnelee): Keeper of virtue/reason Ba Pian-Shu (Brissard): Master of deceit Ta Lai Si-Fa (Tarastia): She who grants justice Fu Han Qing (Faunus): Father that shakes passions Ta Qi Ming (Tyche): She who spins fate Ssu-Ma: Venerable sage Biao Hun Xi-Ai (Valerias): Shining spirit that loves Chai Shi Hui (Luup): Ravenous beast that devours And here are the immortals who got specialty priests in Ochalea: Koryis: peace, prosperity, dimplomacy, tolerance, respect the laws Ssu-Ma: Knowledge, memory, education, history, writing, magic, scholars and sages Ta Lai Si-Fa (Tarastia): Law, order, truth, justice and just vengeance Mao You-Li (Saimpt Malinois), Powerful spear : Lupins, war, hunting, bravery, arms and armorers, wereslayers Nin Fang-Li (Ninfangle), You watch over us : Rakasta, bravery, adventure, travels, battle, hunting Wei Long (Great Dragon): Creation, cosmic order, magic, dragons Dou Shang (Thor), King of battle: War, battle, honor, courage An-Ying Zhu Hou (Aracne Prime) : Spiders and aranea, deceit, oppression, darkness Chai Shi Hui (Luup): Death, cruelty, survival of the fittest, winter, night, clan loyalty Pharamond: magic, egoism, cleverness, ogre-magi Notes: 1. Ochaleans for the most part follow the philosophical faith of the Celestial Court, so they worship all together the deities that make up this pantheon. However, some of these immortals get individual cults as well because they are so much popular in the island. In particular, Koryis is considered overall patron of Ochalea, Ssu-Ma is the patron of civilization and knowledge, and the Great Dragon is patron of cosmic balance and wisdom. 2. Tarastia is one of the few Thyatian deities whose personal faith has a strong appeal to the Ochaleans and the Thyatian dwellers in the island alike. 3. Malinois is the patron of all Ochalean lupins, with the exception of the scholarly Chow-chow who follow Ssu-ma, and of the warlike Shar-pei who worship Thor. Also most lupins do revere and respect Loup, merciless patron of death, strength and winter. 4. Aracne Prime is worshipped by a cult of assassins led by aranea who pose as Ochaleans.