Also indicative of...
1. those defiler warlords were more martial than the others, why they got "captain" positions
2. they were Rajaat's favorites while they lived.
On a semi-related note, I have combed through some of my DS core and supplement book and cannot find reference to Irikos. Did he go by another name??
I agree with Pennarin in that these were titles. I would assume it gave them greater pull with the others, but would not translate into a template or PrC.
On a semi-related note, I have combed through some of my DS core and supplement book and cannot find reference to Irikos. Did he go by another name??
I don't know. If they were tasked with taking down preservers I would think they would have needed some special skills and abilites to aid them in doing so.
He is scarcely documented. I think he's only mentioned in two sources. 2e Book of Artifacts and PAoA.
On a semi-related note, I have combed through some of my DS core and supplement book and cannot find reference to Irikos. Did he go by another name??
He is in Psionic Artifacts of Athas, under the description of the Scorcher, but the main references to him are found in the 2e Book of Artifacts, under the description of the Silencer. There is are also a couple of threads that give his status and identity a, shall we say, comprehensive treatment ;)...
There is are also a couple of threads that give his status and identity a, shall we say, comprehensive treatment ;)...
Thats an understatement
If anyone wants to give a shorty (3 level?) PrC a go for the hands of rajaat, maybe take a gander at the renegade hunter from towers of high sorcery for dragonlance to get some ideas. Or any other wizard-killing class.
I've seen 3 level PrC's kicking around. Paragon classes from UA (not really PrC's though) and the Dragon Highlord PrC from Dragonlance come to mind.
He is in Psionic Artifacts of Athas, under the description of the Scorcher, but the main references to him are found in the 2e Book of Artifacts, under the description of the Silencer. There is are also a couple of threads that give his status and identity a, shall we say, comprehensive treatment ;)...
You wouldn't happen to remember any of those thread titles would you Kamelion?
Aside from the list of Champions in the Revised DS box set, has anyone found a list of other Champions that would be considered canon?
You wouldn't happen to remember any of those thread titles would you Kamelion?
Why yes, yes I would :D. Their titles are:
Why Kamelion is so clearly right about the Irikos thing
and
More reasons why anyone who disagrees with Kamelion about Irikos is obviously a deluded kank.
and
More silly wafflings about Irikos being a Champion. As if!
and
Oh look, another thread about the Champions that gets derailed by this Irikos nonsense. What a surprise!
Aside from the list of Champions in the Revised DS box set, has anyone found a list of other Champions that would be considered canon?
No. And here is why:
Why Kamelion is right about all the other Champions too
(No, I am not going to take this topic - or myself - seriously. All apologies, folks :P)
Here & Here
Irikos was killed during the destruction of Bodach right.
The Silencer survived.
Would it be too much of a stretch to think that the sentience that inhabits the Silencer is actually Irikos. From the 2e description of the Silencer it says that those that fall under the possession of the blade develops a fanatical hatred for those who oppose Rajaat or imprison him. This sounds like the mind of a person that served Rajaat and believed in the cause so much that they were willing to kill an entire race to me.
This could also be the origin of the mysterious red glowing rune that is on the Silencer.
Irikos was killed during the destruction of Bodach right.
The Silencer survived.
Would it be too much of a stretch to think that the sentience that inhabits the Silencer is actually Irikos. From the 2e description of the Silencer it says that those that fall under the possession of the blade develops a fanatical hatred for those who oppose Rajaat or imprison him. This sounds like the mind of a person that served Rajaat and believed in the cause so much that they were willing to kill an entire race to me.
Not a bad idea. I don't remember the part that the sword forced the wielder in having a huge hate on for the enemies of Rajaat though. I thought the Silencer only urged its possessor to raise a horde of raiders and sack one of the city-states.
Granted, I haven't read the 2e Book of Artifacts in some time.
Title.
Also indicative of...
1. those defiler warlords were more martial than the others, why they got "captain" positions
2. they were Rajaat's favorites while they lived.
I thought Irikos, was Undead in Bodach? at least he is in my campaign, wonder where I got that?
I thought Irikos, was Undead in Bodach? at least he is in my campaign, wonder where I got that?
It could be your confusing the facts of that Irikos sacked Bodach and meeting his end there and that the ruins are currently filled with undead.
It could be your confusing the facts of that Irikos sacked Bodach and meeting his end there and that the ruins are currently filled with undead.
naah I do have him as THE undead lord of Badach and Dote mal payne is his lackey you are right, I just thought there was an obscure reference to this
Thanks
naah I do have him as THE undead lord of Badach and Dote mal payne is his lackey you are right, I just thought there was an obscure reference to this
I use his in my campaign as well.
The short of it is that Irikos was tipped off by one of the PCs that he would be meeting his end in the near future when the party encountered him in Athas' past.
I don't know. If they were tasked with taking down preservers I would think they would have needed some special skills and abilites to aid them in doing so.
There's no real reason why anything special should be required.
Thematically you can give all three swords a kind of wizard or preserver bane enchantment, or SR, but since the wielders of those swords are themselves powerful magic users, they should manage to fend off any magical onslaught while they slice and dice those responsible.
Aside from the list of Champions in the Revised DS box set, has anyone found a list of other Champions that would be considered canon?
Nothing else than what is below can be considered canon:
- There is some debate as to the champion status of Irikos, but canon says he existed and was a champion, so we add it to the list in the Wanderer's Chronicles, even though its supposed to be a complete list already.
- There is also debate as to weither or not the Neksos guy from TotDL is the prior identity of a currently living champion, or an actual additional champion, so the door is wide open on that one.
- The only other possibility, a kind of semi-canon status, is the champion Pennarin from RaFoaDK, currently deceased.
Also, I have actually wrote up several short documents pertaining to the problems about inconsistencies in regards to the Champions. I'll try to post some later, as I'm particular interested in getting feedback for my short little write-up about the "History of Irikos".
I don't think you need to invent a prestige class for two people, they aren't the answer for everything.
Whose to say that Irikos and Myron were the only beings to have the title of "Hand"? Sure, they were "The Right and Left" Hands, but there could have been many lesser Hands or replacement Hands.
Sometimes you just have to look outside of the box.
There's no real reason why anything special should be required.
Thematically you can give all three swords a kind of wizard or preserver bane enchantment, or SR, but since the wielders of those swords are themselves powerful magic users, they should manage to fend off any magical onslaught while they slice and dice those responsible.
I beg to differ. The same logic can be used about the Champions in that it could have been just a title that Rajaat bestowed along with bringing his students to the first level of dragonhood. However, people feel that Champion is some sort of special template which sets the SK apart from other dragons (me included).
I don't find it unfeasible to think that Rajaat would have granted special insight/training or abilities to those tasked with slaying preservers during the Jihad. Especially the two heading up the endeavor.
Hand of Rajaat
Hit Die: d8
RequirementsTo qualify to become a hand of Rajaat, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Base Attack: +9
Skills: Sense Motive 18 rank, Spellcraft 18 ranks, Survival 7 ranks
Feats: Improved Counterspell, Leadership, Track
Spells: Ability to cast arcane spells of 5th level or higher.
Special: Must not be a preserver and be in good favor with Rajaat.
Class SkillsThe Hand of Rajaat’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Chr), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Survival (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
[HTML]Table: The Hand of Rajaat
Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per Day
1st +1 +2 +2 +2 Detect Preserver, Wizard Bane +1 level existing arcane spellcasting class
2nd +2 +3 +3 +3 Dampening Aura -
3rd +3 +3 +3 +3 Will of The Warbringer +1 level existing arcane spellcasting class [/HTML]
Class Features
All the following are Class Features of the hand of Rajaat prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Hand’s of Rajaat gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells per Day: When a new hand of Rajaat level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a hand of Rajaat, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Detect Preserver (Sp): At will, a hand of Rajaat can sense preservers. This ability functions like detect evil, except that it detects the auras of preservers, and you are vulnerable to an overwhelming preserver aura if you are a defiler.
Wizard Bane (Ex): At 1st level, the hand of Rajaat gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against a wizard. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such opponents.
Dampening Aura (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a hand of Rajaat radiates an aura that prevents preservers from efficiently tapping the land for spell energy. Preservers within a radius 30 feet + 10 feet per Charisma modifer (minimum 30’) suffer a –2 penalty to save modifiers and caster level checks to their spells. This penalty also stacks with modifiers based on the terrain the preserver is on the at the time of casting.
Will of the Warbringer (Su): At 3rd level, a hand of Rajaat can rob a wizard of the ability to cast spells through preserving. Once per day as a standard action, he may prevent a wizard from casting spells through preserving on a single target within 30 feet. The target wizard is allowed a Will save to negate the effect (DC 10 + arcane caster level + Charisma bonus). If the target makes its saving throw there is no effect, however, if they failed the save they are unable to cast spells unless they resort to defiling. This effect lasts a number of rounds equal to the hand of Rajaat’s arcane spellcaster level.
Ex-Hand of Rajaat
A hand of Rajaat who ceases to be lawful evil, or who willfully goes against the desires of the Warbringer, loses all supernatural class abilities. He may not progress any farther in levels as a hand of Rajaat. He regains his abilities and advancement potential if he is absolved by Rajaat for his violations. However, in most cases the ex-hand of Rajaat is sentenced for death.
Base Attack: +12
Skills: Sense Motive 21 rank, Spellcraft 21 ranks, Survival 10 ranks
Now the above prerequisites, they look like they are there only to ensure very powerful defilers will be able to take this class, which is your goal, as spelled out in the Special section...
I would drop Track and Survival, a wizard can do as well with magic, and those ranks are orrendous Sysane! The high numbers are unjustified by the gains of the class. Unless the character is 18th level, at which point this PrC is not that interesting, besides its flavor.
A nice and flavorful PrC Sysane, although I still think this is a definitive mistake, but kudos on the build anyways.
Thanks. I know we don't see eye-to-eye on it, but I do think its logical, especially during the time of Jihad.
Now the above prerequisites, they look like they are there only to ensure very powerful defilers will be able to take this class, which is your goal, as spelled out in the Special section...
Well its to push a fighter/wizard build on the character as noted by the high Base Attack prereq needed. Tainted wizards could also fit this PrC as well, not just defilers.
I would drop Track and Survival, a wizard can do as well with magic, and those ranks are orrendous Sysane! The high numbers are unjustified by the gains of the class. Unless the character is 18th level, at which point this PrC is not that interesting, besides its flavor
True, but what if the wizard is using magic to obscure themselves from being found magically? I was shooting for an 18th level PrC but could drop it to 15th instead by dropping the BAB to +10 and the Sense Motive and Spellcraft to 19, and Survival to 8. I feel it would be still a useful PrC at level.
If you would take your Complete Arcane copy to Argent Savant, Fatespinner, and Geometer, you'll find 5-level PrCs not that dissimilar to your own, in fact most can be considered to have more punch.
The important factor are the requirements. All are below 12 ranks, requiring level 9 minimum, and ability to cast 5th-level spells.
I strongly suggest you review those classes and reajust both power levels and requirements accordingly.
Now as for the very important factor of having only defiler warlords take this PrC, you already have "Must be in good favor with Rajaat", so that's enough. Its the DS canon that determined those guys were high levels, so you don't need to make the requirements very high to ensure the characters will be high level: Rajaat chooses only powerful servants from the get go.
Also, one angle I'm not seeing in this PrC is the warlord side of the equation. As a class, it could confer the Ignore Spell Failure Chance class ability (a scalable feature), but require the character to already be able to use light armor. The high BAB and the armor requiremtn ensure the character will probably take fighter levels, or it can have a bunch of levels in other classes and take 1 or more levels of human paragaon, which, if you recall ;), grants the use of light armor.
(Uber human is a good Champion/defiler warlord theme, after all.)
Also, one angle I'm not seeing in this PrC is the warlord side of the equation. As a class, it could confer the Ignore Spell Failure Chance class ability (a scalable feature), but require the character to already be able to use light armor. The high BAB and the armor requiremtn ensure the character will probably take fighter levels, or it can have a bunch of levels in other classes and take 1 or more levels of human paragaon, which, if you recall ;), grants the use of light armor.
(Uber human is a good Champion/defiler warlord theme, after all.)
You've made a few good points. I'll take a look at that book tonight.
Though I'd also like to stress that the abilities to effectively sway/push/force a preserver to defile (Dampening Aura and Will of the Warbringer) should not be seen as under powered. Thats a pretty potent ability IMO.
In short, yeah, it's been talked about once or twice. And with all respect to resident Kamelions, everyone knows that Dawnstealers are always correct...
You are indeed a man who knows his squid.
I beg to differ. The same logic can be used about the Champions in that it could have been just a title that Rajaat bestowed along with bringing his students to the first level of dragonhood. However, people feel that Champion is some sort of special template which sets the SK apart from other dragons (me included).
Actually, I'm of the mind that being a Champion IS nothing more than a title. However, I feel the Champions (minus Kalak) ARE deservant of special powers. This is NOT because of their title, but because of their having been subjected to the powers of the Dark Lens by Rajaat in the Steeple of Crystals.
Paying close attention to how every Champion, whose death has been recorded, has been killed with either Rajaat or (his Champion-killer) Hamanu being involved somehow. (NOTE - this excludes Kalak's death, with his status as a Champion being questionable). It doesn't seem a stretch to say, that even still, Champions can only be killed by another Champion (specifically Hamanu- as it seems that Nibenay and Lalali-puy have obviously never figured out how
)Irikos seems to have simply fallen to a bunch of "mortals", so it doesn't seem very reasonable that he would have the powers of a Champion, or anything remotely close (and the only reason Myron would have any powers beyond the norm, would be because of his status as a Champion).
Irikos seems to have simply fallen to a bunch of "mortals", so it doesn't seem very reasonable that he would have the powers of a Champion, or anything remotely close (and the only reason Myron would have any powers beyond the norm, would be because of his status as a Champion).
I sort of doubt that the Warbringer would have given the Silencer to just a "nobody". I feel Irikos would have had to be something special in order for him to be dubbed one of the Hands of Rajaat.
Just like Kalak was caught in the middle of the transformation and was a lot easier to neutralise than he normally would have been.
It doesn't seem a stretch to say, that even still, Champions can only be killed by another Champion
They should only be able to be killed by someone able to approach their power - hence the champions, the biggest fish in the pond, are only been killed by other who can match them in power (like other SK's, like Rajaat, like Rajaats essence in the Scourge, Sadira with rajaat's power).
Hamanu was built to be better at killing champion-level threats than the others - but he couldnt have killed Dregoth, or Borys, by himself as he was, and the others probably could have killed Dregoth without him (though might have been more difficult/longer battle).
Hamanu doesnt have some special 'champion killing' ability - but he does have abilities that make him more capable of killing the powerful characters on Athas (the most obvious of whom are the champions).
Hand of Rajaat
The hands of Rajaat were the elite inquisitors during the Preserver Jihad of the Green Age. Selected by the Warbringer himself for their battle prowess and skills in magic, each led small armies tasked with the elimination of those practicing the preserving arts.The most infamous of the hands during this dark period were the orders commanders, Myron and Irikos, the Left and Right Hands of Rajaat,.
All hands of Rajaat are accomplished wizards, but their backgrounds can be varied. Most have skills as warriors in order to handle especially aggressive or troublesome opponents. Others may have had backgrounds in other classes based on the individual, however they rarely came from divine spellcaster professions.
NPC hands of Rajaat would most often be encountered in pursuit of a powerful preserver or uncovering a conclave of refuge wizards. After the Preserver Jihad, the surviving hands of Rajaat where used by the Warbringer for special assignments of assassination and espionage during the time of the Cleansing Wars.
Hit Die: d8
RequirementsTo qualify to become a hand of Rajaat, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Base Attack: +7
Armor Proficiency: Must be proficient with light armor
Skills: Sense Motive 7 ranks, Spellcraft 12 ranks, Survival 7 ranks
Feats: Improved Counterspell, Leadership, Track
Spells: Ability to cast arcane spells of 5th level or higher.
Special: Can not be a preserver and must be in good favor with Rajaat.
Class SkillsThe Hand of Rajaat’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Chr), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Survival (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
[HTML]Table: The Hand of Rajaat
Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per Day
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Armored Spellcaster -10%, Detect Preserver, Wizard Bane -
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Dampening Aura +1 level existing arcane spellcasting class
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Armored Spellcaster -20%, Will of The Warbringer -[/HTML]
Class Features
All the following are Class Features of the hand of Rajaat prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Hand’s of Rajaat gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells per Day: At 2nd level, the hand of Rajaat gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a hand of Rajaat, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Armored Spellcaster (Ex): A hand of Rajaat is better suited than other characters to cast arcane spells while wearing armor. At 1st level, the hand of Rajaat reduces the arcane spell failure chance for any armor he wears by –10%. At 3rd level, he reduces the spell failure by –20%.
Detect Preserver (Sp): At will, a hand of Rajaat can sense preservers. This ability functions like detect evil, except that it detects the auras of preservers, and you are vulnerable to an overwhelming preserver aura if you are a defiler.
Wizard Bane (Ex): At 1st level, the hand of Rajaat gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against a wizard. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such opponents.
Dampening Aura (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a hand of Rajaat radiates an aura that prevents preservers from efficiently tapping the land for spell energy. Preservers within a radius 30 feet + 10 feet per Charisma modifer (minimum 30’) suffer a –2 penalty to save modifiers and caster level checks to their spells. This penalty also stacks with modifiers based on the terrain the preserver is on the at the time of casting.
Will of the Warbringer (Su): At 3rd level, a hand of Rajaat can rob a wizard of the ability to cast spells through preserving. Once per day as a standard action, the charater may prevent a single wizard within 30 feet from casting soell through preserving.The target wizard is allowed a Will save to negate the effect (DC 10 + arcane caster level + Charisma bonus). If the target makes its saving throw there is no effect, however, if they failed the save they are unable to cast spells unless they resort to defiling. This effect lasts a number of rounds equal to the hand of Rajaat’s arcane spellcaster level.
Ex-Hands of Rajaat
A hand of Rajaat who ceases to be lawful evil, or who willfully goes against the desires of the Warbringer, loses all supernatural and spell like class abilities. He may not progress any farther in levels as a hand of Rajaat. He regains his abilities and advancement potential if he is absolved by Rajaat for his violations. However, in most cases the ex-hand of Rajaat is sentenced for death.
Basically, Champions were created by Rajaat and definitely had some special abilities. In my opinion, this included the ability to channel spells to followers, but you might disagree (especially if you believe that Kalak used Sacha and Wyan to enable his templars, which wouldn't explain why templars lost their powers after Kalak died :P ).
The Champions that turned on Rajaat (of which Kalak and Kalid-Ma were not ones) turned Borys into the Dragon and also changed themselves. The SKs that didn't participate were still just champs and not dragons, forcing them to play catch-up.
It would seem logical that Rajaat would empower his captains with more power than the rest, so maybe a "Greater Champ of Rajaat" is in order?
I'm starting to come around to the idea that their is a difference between a Champion and a Dragon.
Basically, Champions were created by Rajaat and definitely had some special abilities. In my opinion, this included the ability to channel spells to followers, but you might disagree (especially if you believe that Kalak used Sacha and Wyan to enable his templars, which wouldn't explain why templars lost their powers after Kalak died :P ).
I do not hold with the two heads granting Kalak's followers spells, but I wanted to throw this idea out there.
The lose of spell casting ability of Kalak's templars, which had been granted by Sacha & Wyne, following his death was the cause of the two heads cutting off the templars. Perhaps during Kalak's life they had been bound by a spell that forced obediance, but that would have ended when Kalak was killed.
The two disembodied heads were then grooming Tristian (don't think this is right but you know what I mean) and planned on allowing him to use them to grant spells when he was able to fill the role of King. This would be why they pushed him to master the Way and why they suggested going to the Dragon and having his aid in starting the transformation.
I'm starting to come around to the idea that their is a difference between a Champion and a Dragon.
Basically, Champions were created by Rajaat and definitely had some special abilities. In my opinion, this included the ability to channel spells to followers, but you might disagree (especially if you believe that Kalak used Sacha and Wyan to enable his templars, which wouldn't explain why templars lost their powers after Kalak died :P ).
The Champions that turned on Rajaat (of which Kalak and Kalid-Ma were not ones) turned Borys into the Dragon and also changed themselves. The SKs that didn't participate were still just champs and not dragons, forcing them to play catch-up.
It would seem logical that Rajaat would empower his captains with more power than the rest, so maybe a "Greater Champ of Rajaat" is in order?
Well Dawn, that is an insane ;) mix of PP and RaFoaDK, with plenty of discarding of key passages in RaFoaDK. Let's rectify.
- Kalak used Sacha and Wyan to enable his templars: Kalak was controlling the whole thing. It wasn't the heads who gifted Kalak with the templar connection, it was Kalak who was usurping it from them. The heads were unaware they were the originators of the templar connection, having been captured long ago by Kalak who brainwashed them. When Kalak died, the templars did lose their spells, since no one was at the controls anymore.
- The Champions that turned on Rajaat, turned Borys into the Dragon and also changed themselves: Actually the last part is not in RaFoaDK, but in the Timeline. The Champions battle their master, emprison him, turn Borys into a full dragon so he can keep the prison going for all of eternity, then Borys goes insane right in the middle of the process. The Champions do not change themselves, and Borys does not reward the Champions. All Champions, from the moment of their creation, have been given - by Rajaat - a dragon form that progresses on its own without the need of spells, and a templar connection.
Penn, here's the reveised PrC. Let me know what you think.
Its definitely better.
You'd need to ask someone else, though, for the Spell per Day section, because you might need a 0/+1/0 progression instead of your current 0/+1/+1. Since I have difficulty judging the power of any given level, I'm not the right person to determine if it deserves a +1 to spellcasting class.
Its definitely better.
You'd need to ask someone else, though, for the Spell per Day section, because you might need a 0/+1/0 progression instead of your current 0/+1/+1. Since I have difficulty judging the power of any given level, I'm not the right person to determine if it deserves a +1 to spellcasting class.
Thanks for looking it over. I don't think its to out of wack balance wise now. I'll more than likely stick with this unless someone can give me a good reason that its unbalanced.
All Champions, from the moment of their creation, have been given - by Rajaat - a dragon form that progresses on its own without the need of spells, and a templar connection.
That's always been my vote, as well, but you know how "they" are on these boards. You know? "Them?" "Those people?" Anyways, it was just an attempt at consensus - in my own campaigns, they're all dragons.
That's always been my vote, as well, but you know how "they" are on these boards. You know? "Them?" "Those people?" Anyways, it was just an attempt at consensus - in my own campaigns, they're all dragons.
Same here. Made dragons when Rajaat made them his Champions along with a connection to the vortices.
I sort of doubt that the Warbringer would have given the Silencer to just a "nobody". I feel Irikos would have had to be something special in order for him to be dubbed one of the Hands of Rajaat.
Maybe he was just Rajaats best friend :P , or the First student he took on and had the position out of seniority (happens all the time in the real world, the "cream doesn't immediately rise to the top").
Hadnt Irikos just destroyed a city? I think the preservers caught him when he was weak (low on spells, low on hps, busting for a toilet break) and could kill him.
Just like Kalak was caught in the middle of the transformation and was a lot easier to neutralise than he normally would have been.
They should only be able to be killed by someone able to approach their power - hence the champions, the biggest fish in the pond, are only been killed by other who can match them in power (like other SK's, like Rajaat, like Rajaats essence in the Scourge, Sadira with rajaat's power).
Hamanu was built to be better at killing champion-level threats than the others - but he couldnt have killed Dregoth, or Borys, by himself as he was, and the others probably could have killed Dregoth without him (though might have been more difficult/longer battle).
Hamanu doesnt have some special 'champion killing' ability - but he does have abilities that make him more capable of killing the powerful characters on Athas (the most obvious of whom are the champions).
I fully agree with your interpretation
. Personally I'm going to give Hamanu a bunch of extra levels in fighter that the other SKs wouldn't have and maybe something along the lines of the Mage Slaying feats that appear in the 'Complete Arcane' and other sources. + :fight!: = 
Maybe he was just Rajaats best friend :P , or the First student he took on and had the position out of seniority (happens all the time in the real world, the "cream doesn't immediately rise to the top").
I kinda doubt that Rajaat works that way. Especially when it comes to giving out epic level artifacts. ;)
, remember Rajaat was pretty crazy.:heehee
Don't take me too seriously.
I don't think Rajaat is on top of his game as you seem to think he is. He did basicaly destroy the the world in his effort to restore it to its original splendor and purity, talk about a ***k up. It's possible that Irikos was a big ***k up just like his master Rajaat and so Raji took a shine to him
:heehee
Don't take me too seriously.
I cought that. Don't worry :D
Seriously, though, in about ten minutes of freedom, Rajaat made a monster storm that's still in existence and pummeling the world with rain. Had he been made totally free, it's likely he could have reversed any damage done to the world, so he wouldn't have cared too much what happened to it in the process.
That's always been my vote, as well, but you know how "they" are on these boards. You know? "Them?" "Those people?" Anyways, it was just an attempt at consensus - in my own campaigns, they're all dragons.
Oh sorry, I hadn't realised you were attempting to mesh PP/Timeline and RaFoaDK, I thought you were solely mentionning events from that last novel.
My bad.
I, on the other hand, am going to take it very personally and rant. RANT, I tell you!
Seriously, though, in about ten minutes of freedom, Rajaat made a monster storm that's still in existence and pummeling the world with rain. Had he been made totally free, it's likely he could have reversed any damage done to the world, so he wouldn't have cared too much what happened to it in the process.
Hrmmm, that's an interesting thought. You might have something there
. Maybe if Rajaat was freed again he would restore the world to its former state in the Blue Age, still I find it kind of hard to believe that he is capable of undoing all the damage done by the champions.