The group is in the middle of an area north of Draij that is rocky badlands (I think). I estimated that travel to the city-state would be two weeks and then I set up my encounters around that timeline. The PC's have almost no equipment or supplies (I adapted the opening situation from the original DS box set).
One item that I have not had a lot of time to read up on is overland travel and the DC's related to Survival checks and heat conditions. There is one character, a halfling ranger, who has suggested to the group that he can basically provide for the group the food and water that they need to survive, though now it will take 30 days to reach Draij if they do that every day.
I wanted this part of the adventure to be a physical struggle for the PC's and was kind of surprised that this came up.
So the thing that I wanted to know is if any of you have a wandering encounter chart converted to 3.5 and if anyone knows the Survival DC's for an environment as barren as Athas?
Even if the DC check (for survival) was successful I’d make them role-play each day rather than just take it for granted (as Dawnstealer suggests). The halfling would have to decide whether to go out on his own (not wise) or take others (with the chances of heat damage, which would range between very hot to extreme (3ed. DMG p.86). The basic DMG rules aren’t that bad and it becomes harder to survive heat endurance checks as the day wears on (add a dust storm and you could impose a harsh penalty on survival checks for a couple of days).
With a good survival check you could allow the halfling to find game or cacti for water and food, but than he would have to catch and kill animals or use knowledge skill checks to determine if a hungry cacti was likely to turn the tables…
Similarly, the halfling spends half a day/night foraging to find water, only to find that a Gag, Drik or something equally hideous has taken up residence at a spring, preying on game (and players) coming to the only source in the local area. They would have to divert the creature or sneak in to get supplies for that day, or find somewhere else and starve in the meantime.
Even if the DC check (for survival) was successful I’d make them role-play each day rather than just take it for granted (as Dawnstealer suggests).
Actually, that's the opposite of what I was suggesting. Let the player make the roll, then make him actually go out there, find the cactus/waterbeetle/kank/whatever and then get the water. Of course he has to play it out - it's Athas! Even cutting up a cactus can be life-threatening.
Even cutting up a cactus can be life-threatening.
Especially if it has a cape, crown, and minions!
Even if the DC check (for survival) was successful I’d make them role-play each day rather than just take it for granted (as Dawnstealer suggests). QUOTE] Actually, that's the opposite of what I was suggesting. Let the player make the roll, then make him actually go out there, find the cactus/waterbeetle/kank/whatever and then get the water. Of course he has to play it out - it's Athas! Even cutting up a cactus can be life-threatening.
Cross-wires, that was what I ment, when I said for them to role-play each day.
A lot of people in the old America west thought they could do the same thing.
They died.
Living near a desest, I can say that hiking though the desert is no fun choir.
I've gone hiking through some small canyons just south of Joshua Tree. I did bring water. However, there was nothing to eat. Very few plants were growing. It was hot, about 105F and on occasions we had to climb over some boulders. We spent half a day looking for an oasis one of my friend's swore was there, but the last time she was there, she was stoned and they drove there. We didn't find it. They're not going to find any large animals or drinkable water that isn't perhaps, a day or two's journey. They are most likely going to have to do what the native American's who lived in the desert did, eat anything they can catch. Bugs, snakes, lizards whatever. They probably will not find enough to sustain them and they're always going to be hungry. In the badlands, they might find a trapped pool of muddy water (or stale water). Since water doesn't flow upwards, there's not going to be any springs in the elevated badlands, only trapped water from a rain storm. They players will probably have to turn to raiding if they're near a trade route or eat one of their own.
Secondly, badlands can proved shelter. Where there's shelter, there's people or animals (they might luck out and find a game animal, but the animal will probably be as hungry as they are). They might run into a hermit who will either help them or trick them (or they might kill him and take his supplies).
In other words, you're players will have an ordeal ahead of them. It should be great fun. Be sure to play the affects of exhaustion on them. I bet the next time, they travel through Athas, they'll have plenty of supplies, if they survive or luck out and find a herd of game.
Do any of you folks think that raising the Survival DC's for DS by 5 or 10 more would be outrageous? Athas is not your normal desert- I have lived in the Saudi, Jordan, and several other deserts while I was in the Marines and that was not a lot of fun (but I do like the view and area).
I think I asked before, but has anyone come up with a wandering monster chart by CR and terrain? If so, could I get it? I have the one that was in the original DS Terrors of Athas (I cannot remember the exact name but I think that this was it), but it does not have a very good selection of bad beasties from the newer material.
I think I asked before, but has anyone come up with a wandering monster chart by CR and terrain? If so, could I get it? I have the one that was in the original DS Terrors of Athas (I cannot remember the exact name but I think that this was it), but it does not have a very good selection of bad beasties from the newer material.
Chief list monkey Kamelion, are you hearing this?
Do any of you folks think that raising the Survival DC's for DS by 5 or 10 more would be outrageous? Athas is not your normal desert- I have lived in the Saudi, Jordan, and several other deserts while I was in the Marines and that was not a lot of fun (but I do like the view and area).
I think I asked before, but has anyone come up with a wandering monster chart by CR and terrain? If so, could I get it? I have the one that was in the original DS Terrors of Athas (I cannot remember the exact name but I think that this was it), but it does not have a very good selection of bad beasties from the newer material.
Hmmm, know what you mean, not as bad as Saudi or Jordan but I've been digging mid-summer in eastern Turkey and it isn't fun. However, depending on the race (thinking about a forest ridge halfling) the players they will be used to a hotter environment. Maybe raising the DC by a few point during mid-day, or by 5 at the worst, but I'd save that for exceptional places (IIRC The Valley of Dust and Fire had a good chart for extreme weather conditions that could be converted to 3.5).
As for CR and terrain. I never tried to scale encounters, if they see something that's going to kill them then they should hide or run away (or learn the hard way, it is Athas
). The Monsters Beyond Tyr (2nd compendium) book didn't have all the creatures from the previous material either, haven't got anything recent.Maybe I could give one of them a level of ranger.
I've had one player begging to play a thri-kreen so I think it would be fun the introduct them to the savage cousin.
Chief list monkey Kamelion, are you hearing this?
:D
Sounds like a fun idea - I'll get to it once those NPCs are stowed away ;)
>crawls back under mekillot to continue working<
Wha?
If you intend on raising the DC of survival checks (which I personally think is reasonable) your players should agree to this house rule. That way, you get to be appropriately harsh without seeming arbitrarily mean to your PCs.
btw, I like the trin idea. Have fun.
Athas is harsh, but as DM you need to be fair. You should be having this conversation with your PCs not us.
If you intend on raising the DC of survival checks (which I personally think is reasonable) your players should agree to this house rule. That way, you get to be appropriately harsh without seeming arbitrarily mean to your PCs.
btw, I like the trin idea. Have fun.
You can be fair and still come to these forums for queries like this. I'm fair to my Players. They all know their characters have an equally likely chance of being killed.
Cooling Canopy is a 1st level spell that lasts 12 hours...
Now, being a munchkin myself, I understand the NEED to abuse those advantages.
But so do small desert critters.
Like a little pack of Phrenic Horrid Advanced Dire Rats who has taken a liking to the PCs.
As the PCs travel, there are rats following the Cooling Canopy and stealing rations from them whenever they stop to rest. The poor PCs think they have somehow angered a Druid who sent the rats to make their life miserable...
There are also people other than the PCs who will take a particular interest in the Cooling Canopy: the Black Sand Raiders.
I'm running them through Dragon's Crown and they will soon be trying to find the raiders' camp:
PC: "How did they know we were coming?".
ME: "Roll a spot check".
PCs: "2...","5","4","42!".
ME: "42? Never mind. As no one rolled a 1, you all see a lonely 30 foot radius cloud that has been moving towards the raiders' camp for the last two days".
All of these players are semi-experiences, but this is the first time most of them have trod the sun-blasted and hostile world of Athas.
The only reason that I am doing this it to expose them to the reality that Dark Sun is not a place that you can just prance in the tulips- thanks Dawnstealer!
I went to this forum, because I respect your opinions and, while I know the material very well, I do not know everything, and just wanted to see how other DM's would handle the situation.
Realistically, how would anyone, with almost nothing in the way of gear or supplies, make it in the desert- the Survival skill would let a person experienced in it know the correct materials that they would need to survive- the situation should be harder if that same person with the same knowledge had nothing to work with.
I think it would be interesting to have the Trin clutch leader, who has 1 lvl as a Ranger, sneak into their camp, crouch over the half-elf (elves being his favored enemy), poke PC with his claws poised over his throat and say "Hello food! You are in my packs hunting lands, but seeing as though we have made a goog kill the other day, we are going to have some fun!
I plan on giving the PC's a fighting chance- as long as they keep moving and hurry along- I have a timeline and the trin are hungry!!!!
Like a little pack of Phrenic Horrid Advanced Dire Rats who has taken a liking to the PCs.
This is just perfection itself! Must remember to use this next time the PCs are in the desert :D.