Exotic Two-handed Weapon:
Mekillot Sap 25 Cp 1d10 2d6 x2 10 ft. 30 lb. Bludgeoning
* Reach weapon.
* Deals nonlethal damage.
Mekillot Sap: The mekillot sap is a soft but tough large leather bag filled with fine gravel or sand, stitched together with giant’s hair, and tied to the end of a five-foot rope. The throwing sap is swung overhead with both hands. A throwing sap has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike other weapons with reach, you can grip the rope higher, and use the throwing sap against an adjacent foe. You can make trip attacks with the mekillot sap. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the sap to avoid being tripped. You gain a +2 bonus to your opposed Strength check when attempting to trip your opponent.
On a little bit of a side note, is there plans to better define/add to the region feats section (possibly supplying info as to bonus equipment received).
Oh...and some sort of guidelines to follow would be nice to have, in regards to athasian characters having access to far poorer equipment in accordance with their character level (ie. a dark sun character, realistically, should have far poorer quality equipment -not to mention way less equipment - for his level than say a Forgotten Realms character might have at the same level). Possibly adding a table with a lessoned ratio of wealth to level aspect, would probably be sufficient - and give players something to offset this balance. Or you could just say that its the harshness of the setting (ie. dark sun was always supposed to be tougher - don't know how this would affect the CR system though). However, there definately should be at least a sidebar for ways on how to handle this.
Afterall, when you think about it, none of the heroes of the Pentad had equipment according to their level (with the possible exception of Rikus, but even he seemed to have fairly little), and they certainly had as much a chance to get some goodies as any PC should.
Idea - would the inclusion of an extra feat (for purposes of including wild talent abilities), for athasian characters only, offset this lessoned amount of equipment. And if so, can this even be done without stepping on WotC's toes, so to speak.
I personally would love to see some implementation of the 2nd ed. piecemeal rules, as I believe this added much to the setting. Also a more varied armor selection would be nice.
Someone is working on a piecemeal armor mechanic, but its not guaranted its gonna provide any usable rules in the end.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by a more varied armor selection?
Do you want more types of armor (splint mail, full plate, leather) or more fluff desciptions for each type (mekillot full plate, carru leather, rasclinn hide)?
Can you elaborate on what you mean by a more varied armor selection?
Do you want more types of armor (splint mail, full plate, leather) or more fluff desciptions for each type (mekillot full plate, carru leather, rasclinn hide)?
Why, both, of course.
was thinking more the latter, but with ds specific armors as well (ie, resin chord armor seemed cool, or some such)
Before anyone misinterprets this, I mean:
In Terrors of Athas, there are entries which state things like "Fire Lizard eggs sell for X ceramic pieces, young Fire Lizards sell for Y ceramic pieces"...
A table listing all thos prices would make my life a lot easier when coping with my munchkins (Kill them all... and take their stuff!!!)
Oh...and some sort of guidelines to follow would be nice to have, in regards to athasian characters having access to far poorer equipment in accordance with their character level (ie. a dark sun character, realistically, should have far poorer quality equipment -not to mention way less equipment - for his level than say a Forgotten Realms character might have at the same level). Possibly adding a table with a lessoned ratio of wealth to level aspect, would probably be sufficient - and give players something to offset this balance. Or you could just say that its the harshness of the setting (ie. dark sun was always supposed to be tougher - don't know how this would affect the CR system though). However, there definately should be at least a sidebar for ways on how to handle this.
Afterall, when you think about it, none of the heroes of the Pentad had equipment according to their level (with the possible exception of Rikus, but even he seemed to have fairly little), and they certainly had as much a chance to get some goodies as any PC should.
Idea - would the inclusion of an extra feat (for purposes of including wild talent abilities), for athasian characters only, offset this lessoned amount of equipment. And if so, can this even be done without stepping on WotC's toes, so to speak.
I think that this would be a great idea, but with a slight modification.
Have the beginning equipment and average wealth be lower for say the first 5 to 8 lvls, but then as the PC's gain some status and renown, have the average wealth come back to the DMG amounts. This would be a great way to show two things- 1) the PC's very humble and struggling beginnings in a world where the poor are really poor, and 2) reward higher lvl PC's with a greater infusion of wealth to show them surpassing their humble beginnings and also that, in this world as in every other, the rich are able to do things beyond the "common mans" abilities in terms of things.
By the way, there is an Athasian Arms and Equipment Guide in the works. It will include Ral knows how many items, magical, psionic and mundane, armors and weapons etc.
Cool but I bet only Ral knows when it's going to come out. ;)
(Jokes aside, I think you guys do incredible work for underpaid slaves at Athas.org... and maybe that's an understatement)
I work for Guthay!Ral can go back to his filthy corner of the sky anyday...
Cool but I bet only Ral knows when it's going to come out.
Considering it was "just" started, that could be at least a partial truth.
Hey, don't insult me!
Ral can go back to his filthy corner of the sky anyday...
Well excuuuse me all to the Hollow!!! I get back from a collegian slave strike and everybody's a Drajian astronomer!!!
:D
Well excuuuse me all to the Hollow!!! I get back from a collegian slave strike and everybody's a Drajian astronomer!!!
It's draji and draxan.
Afterall, when you think about it, none of the heroes of the Pentad had equipment according to their level (with the possible exception of Rikus, but even he seemed to have fairly little), and they certainly had as much a chance to get some goodies as any PC should.
The pentad was a series of novels. I don't think the Krynn champions had all that much equipment in the Dragonlance novels, but nobody has ever asserted that they're low equipment. Artistic license doesn't have to follow the guidelines in the rules.
Look at the official modules for DS. They certainly don't rip you off on equipment. Even the ones that start you off in a slave caravan have you well equiped in relatively short order.
A Little Knowledge has the party walking out of the adventure with a +1 metal shortsword (granted, it's charge limited... but it's METAL)
An analogy for you:
Psionics::Athas as Magic::Faruen
And, there's nothing terribly taboo about clerical magic. And templars can probably make items as well, without much trouble (well, the limited spell list puts a damper on it, but). There's no difference between the process of making psionic-enhanced weapons/items and magic-enhanced. Unlike previous editions, where psionic enchantment was a rare thing to do.
So, we need to rework the random treasure tables, to give much more psionic items.
And the point about some new custom magic/psionic items is well taken.
It's draji and draxan.
NOW IT'S MY SPELLING!!! AAAHK!!! :headexplo
Back in 2e many of the DS specific weapons had special maneuvers associated with them based on whether a character was proficient or specialized or not. Just curious if there was any thought given to bringing that mechanic back in anyway. Perhaps as a special feat (i.e Advavanced Weapon Maneuver feat)?
I was always a big fan of that mechanic back in the day. I'd love to see it brought to 3e in some fashion.
This is an odd inquiry but I'll ask anyhow.
Back in 2e many of the DS specific weapons had special maneuvers associated with them based on whether a character was proficient or specialized or not. Just curious if there was any thought given to bringing that mechanic back in anyway. Perhaps as a special feat (i.e Advavanced Weapon Maneuver feat)?
I was always a big fan of that mechanic back in the day. I'd love to see it brought to 3e in some fashion.
This could be achieved by making a gladiator PrC that specilalizes in developing combat manouvers for a restricted number of weapons. The weapons would be fixed, and there would be more combat manouvers than a character could take by advancing to the final level of the class, meaning each such gladiator would be different from one another.
This could be achieved by making a gladiator PrC that specilalizes in developing combat manouvers for a restricted number of weapons. The weapons would be fixed, and there would be more combat manouvers than a character could take by advancing to the final level of the class, meaning each such gladiator would be different from one another.
I was thinking more along the lines of a special feat. The prerequisite could be a +13 Wisdom and Weapon Focus, or something along those lines. Each DS weapon could have a special maneuver listed next to, much like the set up for weapons in 2e's Complete Gladiator. So long as the character has Weapon Focus and spends a feat on Weapon Maneuver on said weapon they can preform the special ability listed.
Just an idea.
3E got rid of that stuff (pervasive entries throughout a book for the sole use of a specific feat or class) and replaced it with Tactical and Weapon Style feats.
Its just bad the very concept of Tactical and Weapon Style feats is not OGC...
It just looks cumbersome, Sysane.
3E got rid of that stuff (pervasive entries throughout a book for the sole use of a specific feat or class) and replaced it with Tactical and Weapon Style feats.
Its just bad the very concept of Tactical and Weapon Style feats is not OGC...
I hear where your coming from.
What if it was just a feat "Weapon Maneuver" with the same prereqs of 13 Wisdom and Weapon Focus. But instead of having a special ability listed next to a specific weapon the character got to pick from a series of abilities that is set the moment the feat is taken?
The list could consist of the following:
+1 Dodge bonus
+1 to Damage
+2 to Sunder Weapon attempts
+2 to Disarm attempts
etc......
The feat could only be applied to one selected weapon and the feat could be taken multiple times each time for a different weapon.
Some effort should be made not to simply make non-metal standard weapons head and shoulders above the metal weapons too. Perhaps a wooden sword does less damage while a wooden staff does not, but they still break just as easily? Or just assume that Athasian wood does not stack up against wood from lush worlds and so it doesn't matter if you're making a stick or a sword out of it, it's still not going to be ideal.
As to the availability of magical items and character wealth I would say that anything that attempts to put DS characters in line with normal characters would be completely selling out the system. Even if psionics is just as prevalent in DS as magic is in normal settings it's still not a setting that would encourage the expensive and time consuming process of creating magical items. The feeling of a Dark Sun city just shouldn't be that of a peaceful cosmopolis with plenty of time and security to create a magical artifact.
Lastly, in a slightly off-topic suggestion, I think the RPing problems with magic and the scarcity of wealth should be factored into characters in some way. When reading the player's guide I was quite disappointed to see that the intrinsic boosts that used to offset the generally hostile environment and less powerful equipment were discarded (higher raw stats, more powerful base races, and innate psionics).
These things allowed for characters to be stripped of their equipment and be forced to work with whatever they could find without alienating the players involved. They didn't feel that equipment made the character (mechanically) because they never expected to get much, but the innate bonuses still let them feel like they weren't just playing a dumbed down version of normal D&D.
Most DMs have a houserule breakage mechanic. Not sure if its our place to suggest such an optional rule. We'll discuss this.
As for the prevalence of items in the game, our hands are tied. Items are an integral part of the CR system, so we can't change it without throwing the system overboard.
As for boosted up characters and dangers, well, it has already been discussed here on the boards and the arguments weren't good: people said that to express the harshness of Athas characters ought to be made more powerful one way or the other. Well, it doesn't make the game harsher, just easier. Besides, it attracts power gamers: I remember I liked it a lot in 2E DS that my character could have a natural ability score of 20 before modifications...
As to the availability of magical items and character wealth I would say that anything that attempts to put DS characters in line with normal characters would be completely selling out the system. Even if psionics is just as prevalent in DS as magic is in normal settings it's still not a setting that would encourage the expensive and time consuming process of creating magical items. The feeling of a Dark Sun city just shouldn't be that of a peaceful cosmopolis with plenty of time and security to create a magical artifact.
You mean like the various psionic academies and templarates? Nope! They've never had time to create magic items. [/sarcasm].
There are game balance issues that we must bow down to. Low magic and monty haul variants are up to individual DM's to worry about, because characters in 3.5 are balanced against encounter CRs based upon availability of magic items. That's a whole can of worms that not only should we not be playing with, but since this is an official product I would argue that we have a mandate NOT to.
However, have no fear, the Equipment Templarate is working feverishly to bring a nice low arcane, high psionic item table to a published document near you.
You mean like the various psionic academies and templarates? Nope! They've never had time to create magic items. [/sarcasm].
Do they create and distribute them often? Two relatively closed societies with magic items does not mean that they're going to be scattered across every monster lair and available (and useful) to the broad population.
There are game balance issues that we must bow down to. Low magic and monty haul variants are up to individual DM's to worry about, because characters in 3.5 are balanced against encounter CRs based upon availability of magic items. That's a whole can of worms that not only should we not be playing with, but since this is an official product I would argue that we have a mandate NOT to.
Dark Sun (official 2E) was different than normal D&D. It was weighted differently and while that would be more difficult to balance than just going with standard D&D with cosmetic flavor, it would keep the mechanics in line with the flavor. Honestly I'd far prefer DS3E stuck to being DS (and since DS2E defined much of what DS is, it shouldn't be ignored) than to make sure I can use goblins and standard treasure tables. I have heard there's some agreement with Wizards requiring that it be interoperable, but I don't think that really prevents Dark Sun from keeping its flavor.
Lower wealth can be countered by blanket CR adjustments (ie in DS all monsters are +1 CR) or bonuses (ie everyone gets Wild Talent or better stats) that are independent of the races and monsters presented. More powerful races could simply be implemented with a +1 LA (to all races, akin to how Midnight works). Then the Elves can have their +4 dex (why are elves and half-elves just as dextrous?) without breaking with basic D&D but still present Athas as a land of survival of the fittest.
However, have no fear, the Equipment Templarate is working feverishly to bring a nice low arcane, high psionic item table to a published document near you.
Switching "psionic" for "arcane" doesn't really do anything.
Make weapon quality matter (and quality of equipment in general). If someone has a metal sword, it should be special rather than just style points.
Since most characters will start at 3rd level (to allow for the higher LA races), and assuming that you're sticking with standard wealth distribution, a starting character gets 2700 cp. This means that right away they can pretty much ignore buying inferior equipment. Add to that either that most of the best weapons were included without penalty since they were non-metal (bows of all sorts) or cloned in a non-metal version (like the Longsword and Greatsword clones) and there's no reason for anyone to ever use a substandard weapon.
If this is the case, why even bother? Sure metal may be rare, but it's not like it seems to actually affect anything. Replace "Longsword" with "Macahuitl" and you just have a funny named Longsword. Replace "magic item" with "psionic item" and you've just got a magic item with crystals. I suppose these difference can be purely flavor, but when there's no difference whatsoever in the mechanics it really doesn't feel unique.
As for boosted up characters and dangers, well, it has already been discussed here on the boards and the arguments weren't good: people said that to express the harshness of Athas characters ought to be made more powerful one way or the other.
To balance out the supposed difficulties with magic and weaponry (difficulties which don't seem to get much attention in the current incarnation) something should balance it.
Besides, it attracts power gamers: I remember I liked it a lot in 2E DS that my character could have a natural ability score of 20 before modifications...
Did you think when you were playing that while you had great stats your character wasn't nearly as well equipped as others or that your character had the odds stacked against him? The point wasn't to make the system more deadly, it was to balance it in a unique way.
What attracted me to DS was that it was entirely different. The races, the equipment, and the setting in general were all radically different from basic D&D and that made it exciting and alien. With the push to keep everything in-line with basic D&D it seems like DS3E is suffering from a lack of creativity. I look at a race and just see a minor tweak to its basic variety or I look at weapons and I see an old weapon with a new description. Even the gameplay (with standard treasure and psions as a sub for wizards) tends to look just like any medieval setting with a facelift.
Balancing such things is tough, so I won't say that staying in line with 2E DS is the definitive best answer, but the lack of uniqueness in the new rules is a concern of mine as I consider whether to use DS3E.
Might it be an option to simply present the proposed ideas on 1) tables for lower equipment/character level and 2)possible balancing mechanics - such as free wild talent,etc- in an "optional rule" format. This could effectively circumvent the issues some might have.
Sure house ruling these thoughts would be simple enough. However, by offering it to all players, feedback from the community can only strengthen the setting as a whole.
I hear where your coming from.
What if it was just a feat "Weapon Maneuver" with the same prereqs of 13 Wisdom and Weapon Focus. But instead of having a special ability listed next to a specific weapon the character got to pick from a series of abilities that is set the moment the feat is taken?
The list could consist of the following:
+1 Dodge bonus
+1 to Damage
+2 to Sunder Weapon attempts
+2 to Disarm attempts
etc......
The feat could only be applied to one selected weapon and the feat could be taken multiple times each time for a different weapon.
Take a look at the Exotic Weapon Master from Complete Warrior: a 3-level PrC that lets you choose 1 maneuver/level with the Exotic Weapon for which You have Weapon Focus...
If that doesn't do it, you could take those maneuvers and make them Feats with BAB +6 and Weapon Focus in appropriate weapon as prerequisites...
the atlatl, javelin (and one for darts, too) was recently printed in Dragon. I think it's under the Barbarian's class acts for last months (the one with "Sandstorm Spells) on the cover. can't remember which # that was right now. So you might want to see how those compare to the one in the DS3.0 currently up online.
Take a look at the Exotic Weapon Master from Complete Warrior: a 3-level PrC that lets you choose 1 maneuver/level with the Exotic Weapon for which You have Weapon Focus...
If that doesn't do it, you could take those maneuvers and make them Feats with BAB +6 and Weapon Focus in appropriate weapon as prerequisites...
I've seen that PrC. Its not bad, but feel that a style or maneuver makes more sense being a feat(s) vs. just PrC.
To balance out the supposed difficulties with magic and weaponry (difficulties which don't seem to get much attention in the current incarnation) something should balance it.
If we're just going to be balancing things in the end, then in all truth, why bother changing the balance? Doesn't that seem a little backwards to you? You're over-complicating the issue. It's balanced, don't fix it because it ain't broke.
Did you think when you were playing that while you had great stats your character wasn't nearly as well equipped as others or that your character had the odds stacked against him? The point wasn't to make the system more deadly, it was to balance it in a unique way.
Bah, that's the DM's problem, really. There is absolutely nothing that we can do other than make sure that the game is balanced as it goes out the door, and we have to do that, there is no choice in the matter, as much as anyone would like to make it different. If the DM can't make the players feel like they always have the odds stacked against them, then there is absolutely nothing we can do to change that.
Repeat after me: "There is nothing we, as developers, can do to influence how players 'feel' under a particular DM."
What attracted me to DS was that it was entirely different. The races, the equipment, and the setting in general were all radically different from basic D&D and that made it exciting and alien. With the push to keep everything in-line with basic D&D it seems like DS3E is suffering from a lack of creativity. I look at a race and just see a minor tweak to its basic variety or I look at weapons and I see an old weapon with a new description. Even the gameplay (with standard treasure and psions as a sub for wizards) tends to look just like any medieval setting with a facelift.
Balancing such things is tough, so I won't say that staying in line with 2E DS is the definitive best answer, but the lack of uniqueness in the new rules is a concern of mine as I consider whether to use DS3E.
Lack of uniqueness, hrmm, you're right, ceramic pieces and bits are not unique, mekillots, johzals, tembo, sorcerer kings, dwarven banshees, running elves, muls, gladiators, nonmagic bards, defilers, preservers, advanced beings of all varieties, world-spanning deserts, slave tribes, the ivory triangle, no gods, templars, elemental clerics, dark lenses, the Dragon of Tyr, Tyr-storms, sun mages, shadow mages, grey mages, city-states, half-giants, thri-kreen... none of these things are unique in any way to Athas. What was I thinking? I guess I'll slink off and go play in Toril again and hope my DM will let me bring my wrist razors along.
If you can't induce magic in your self or your players, how is that a problem of the rules? I'm sorry that I don't have much sympathy for you, I really wish it were different, but everything that you've brought up is entirely the purview of the DM and her players and has absolutely nothing to do with the rules. The rules aren't magic, they have no inherent sense of mystery, no spell upon them that creates facination, that is, always has been and always will be - up to you.
If we're just going to be balancing things in the end, then in all truth, why bother changing the balance? Doesn't that seem a little backwards to you? You're over-complicating the issue. It's balanced, don't fix it because it ain't broke.
Standard 2E's balance between personal ability/stats and items is not the same as DS2E's. It doesn't matter if it's well balanced if it's not the thing you were trying to build in the first place.
Bah, that's the DM's problem, really. There is absolutely nothing that we can do other than make sure that the game is balanced as it goes out the door, and we have to do that, there is no choice in the matter, as much as anyone would like to make it different.
When have I said the game shouldn't be balanced? I've just said that the route to take in order to create that balance should be different in order to faithfully replicate DS2E.
If you can't induce magic in your self or your players, how is that a problem of the rules?
If the rules don't help, why use them? I own a DS2E boxed set and should be able to find my 2E base books, and while I do like 3E's basic mechanics, if that means dropping core descriptions ("To one extent or another, every human and demihuman on Athas has psionic powers." - Wanderer's Journal) or reducing Dark Sun to a renaming of standard gear and flavor rules that don't actually matter, is it really worth it? Sure, I can house-rule all these things in, but why am I house-ruling in core concepts?
At the very least I suggest putting in some optional rules to help those that want to replicate DS2E.
The rules aren't magic, they have no inherent sense of mystery, no spell upon them that creates facination, that is, always has been and always will be - up to you.
Then why were the rules of DS2E inherently different from the rules of standard D&D? Were the original developers just out to lunch?
Standard 2E's balance between personal ability/stats and items is not the same as DS2E's. It doesn't matter if it's well balanced if it's not the thing you were trying to build in the first place. [...] Then why were the rules of DS2E inherently different from the rules of standard D&D? Were the original developers just out to lunch?
Something to remember, we are not allowed to make a new D20 variant of Dark Sun, we must (on orders by Wizards of the Coast) comply with D&D3.5 rules. So, even if DS2 deviated from AD&D2E, our conversion cannot. I suggest reading the FAQ on athas.org for more information and clarification on the terms D20 vs D&D 3.5 and our obligations to Wizards. You can argue about this until the end of time, but we cannot and I repeat cannot change core rules aspects (ex. inflating racial ability score modifiers would force us to apply level adjustments to the races - and then you might as well just play Paizo's DS version). An article with house rule compilations is another matter - that can be added to our site.
Something to remember, we are not allowed to make a new D20 variant of Dark Sun, we must (on orders by Wizards of the Coast) comply with D&D3.5 rules. So, even if DS2 deviated from AD&D2E, our conversion cannot. I suggest reading the FAQ on athas.org for more information and clarification on the terms D20 vs D&D 3.5 and our obligations to Wizards. You can argue about this until the end of time, but we cannot and I repeat cannot change core rules aspects (ex. inflating racial ability score modifiers would force us to apply level adjustments to the races - and then you might as well just play Paizo's DS version). An article with house rule compilations is another matter - that can be added to our site.
Hmm... is it just me or does this sound familiar? OH MY GAWD! IT'S THE DEAD KANK RISING!!!
Something to remember, we are not allowed to make a new D20 variant of Dark Sun, we must (on orders by Wizards of the Coast) comply with D&D3.5 rules. So, even if DS2 deviated from AD&D2E, our conversion cannot. I suggest reading the FAQ on athas.org for more information and clarification on the terms D20 vs D&D 3.5 and our obligations to Wizards. You can argue about this until the end of time, but we cannot and I repeat cannot change core rules aspects (ex. inflating racial ability score modifiers would force us to apply level adjustments to the races - and then you might as well just play Paizo's DS version). An article with house rule compilations is another matter - that can be added to our site.
Forgotten Realms runs with blanket modifications like regional feats, why couldn't Dark Sun do the same (ie psionic wild talents)? And is there anything wrong with making all LA +1 races? Dark Sun games would commonly be starting at 3rd level to accomodate the Half-Giants and Thri-Kreen anyway.
These modifications all comply perfectly with D&D 3.5 rules, they just tweak the system to act similar to DS2E.
Forgotten Realms runs with blanket modifications like regional feats, why couldn't Dark Sun do the same (ie psionic wild talents)? And is there anything wrong with making all LA +1 races? Dark Sun games would commonly be starting at 3rd level to accomodate the Half-Giants and Thri-Kreen anyway.
These modifications all comply perfectly with D&D 3.5 rules, they just tweak the system to act similar to DS2E.
Call me dumb, but I'm not really getting what you're saying here. Would you like to see higher stats to make up for lower magic? If so, then you have a really big problem on your hands: Stats don't scale, magic does. The whole point is that while an extra +2 on a stat at the beginning seems useful, it isn't really. A +2 on a stat translates to a +1 bonus. IOW, there's no real difference between giving a 3rd level char a +1 bonus due to stats and giving that same character a +1 sword, except that you have more control as a DM over the sword.
Now, here's where 'balanced differently' falls apart and shows itself to be not balanced at all: What happens when that same character is 10th level, or 15th even? That whopping +2 stat adjustment doesn't mean so much anymore, and there are monsters around that need higher level weapons, not to mention the fact that characters are balanced on the fact that they'll have a certain amount of gp value in equipment, equipment that you seem hellbent on denying them, all so they can have a measly +2 to str (or +4 or +8 or whatever, the problem remains the same).
Repeat after me: high stats are not a replacement for low magic.
That is not 'balanced differently' that is 'not balanced at all'.
*pulls out Gargantuan crossbow, shoots kank again. "Stay down!"*
Would you like to see higher stats to make up for lower magic?
That is one of the things I would like to see. Strangely not the thing I was talking about in the post you quoted.
I would like to see DS characters that are more focussed on their abilities than their stuff and would like to see something that would balance that out. I admit that messing with equipment is a pretty tricky proposition, but I really don't see it being as insurmountable as everyone seems to imply.
If so, then you have a really big problem on your hands: Stats don't scale, magic does.
I'm not advocating the removal of magic gear, just not being as stacked as characters of the same level. A +2 strength is roughly equivalent to a +1 sword and that balances as long as their weapons are always 1 step below what they would normally be. They start at -1 (crappy material) when they'd normally be +0, move to +0 when they'd normally be +1, and so forth. Yes, there would be a 3-4 level gap where they'd have to rely on Magic Weapon to handle creatures that are DR/magic, but that's not going to turn the game upside down.
...there are monsters around that need higher level weapons...
Not in D&D 3.5. DR/Magic is DR/Magic. One would think that CR modifications would already need to be made for anything with DR/Silver or DR/Cold Iron to account for the inflated cost of metal...
Er, right. Except we can't touch them. Any of it. Nor can we make slightly altered doubles.
True, but there's nothing that says that you can't say, "This is good stuff, take a look at it if you can, it comes highly recommended."
:D
note to self: smilies are the work of the devil
exactly. what's to stop you from saying "if you have access to these books, these would be some good things to use"?
Actually, we have a tight leash in all bureaus about keeping references to non-SRD material down to a minimum. A few things have croped up here and there - you'll remember Zaachila's Forgoten Realms' feat in CSoD, and also notice that next to it it gives you the option of changing that feat for a core one in case you don't have that specific FR book.
I've seen that PrC. Its not bad, but feel that a style or maneuver makes more sense being a feat(s) vs. just PrC.
Hey, bud! Check out Athas.org's Dark Sun Prestige Class Appendix 1.
It has a prestige class called the Arena Champion. The Arena Champion has a Signature Move special ability that seems to be just what you're looking for.
Oh, and it can be upgraded at a later level with Improved Signature Move.
Jon also has a Weapon Devotee PrC that revs up a warrior like you've rarely seen, and which is not limited to the arena. Maybe he will add that PrC to Appendix II...
Hey, bud! Check out Athas.org's Dark Sun Prestige Class Appendix 1.
It has a prestige class called the Arena Champion. The Arena Champion has a Signature Move special ability that seems to be just what you're looking for.
Oh, and it can be upgraded at a later level with Improved Signature Move.
I just don't feel that abilities like that should be class/PrC only features. Thats like saying Improved Sunder,Improved Trip, and Cleave should be class only abilities vs feats.
Don't get me wrong, those PrC are cool but I think a feat similar to what I've proposed isn't to far fetched of an idea. Thats just IMO.
I might toy around with that concept Sysane, but not for DS.
Why wouldn't it fit for DS?
I didn't say it wouldn't fit DS, just that I wouldn't create any with DS in mind (at least not now - other DS priorities).
Agreed. The feat could be used beyond just a DS setting.
this armor was composed of what looked like several reeds (the kind of which could be found in numbers around Draj and other mudflats at the very least). these reeds were slatted together from side to side to form a breastplate of sorts as well as pieces that covered the upper arm. now this probably served more of a ceremonial purpose, but with the application of several layers of resin, this could become a light weight, yet durable piece of athasian armor.
Thoughts?
I think this would follow very closely with the piece-meal armor that defined the armor type of 2e.
Kalthandrix : Thanks for the info, I never checked the arms and armors section of the book, strangely.
Squidful- : We're talking bamboo + resin armor here I think...
Kalthandrix : Thanks for the info, I never checked the arms and armors section of the book, strangely.
I do what I can with what I got Pennarin. :D
I have been playing with this idea since I re-started my DS campaign. I just liked the flavor of the different possibilities offered by piecemeal armor, and when I first got the Planar Handbook I thought it would work perfectly. With the different types of material on Athas, the idea is just ripe for a modification into DS equipment.
I remember in an adventure from the 2nd box set (it think) that had some swords that were given to the PC's from a group of pterrans for helping them. The swords were wood, but as hard as steel due to a special treatment of id fiend blood.
I am hoping that you folks will have some stuff like this in the new material.
Id Fiend blood already has some properties...I could add that to the list.
As for other materials, we created some but they still need to be ratified by the Overcouncil, like everything else.
I created Rajaatsblood, supposed to be the material that composes the swords Scorcher and Silencer, but it ended up being cut for DA part 2, I tink. I didn't see the final version of the sword, so I don't know. If the material is still there, then its only in name, with its properties being...well, you'll see it when it comes out!
There's also Vorpal Steel, the material that composes the Scourge, and, optionaly, some other weapons from the deep past as well.
There's Living Crystal, a psionically active material made from crystal spider tissue and made into armors and weapons. It replaces deep crystal (yet has different properties) since that material is inadequate for Athas, fluffwise.
I remember in an adventure from the 2nd box set (it think) that had some swords that were given to the PC's from a group of pterrans for helping them. The swords were wood, but as hard as steel due to a special treatment of id fiend blood.
That would be the slodak, which is already included in the DS3 Core Rules.
That would be the slodak, which is already included in the DS3 Core Rules.
Thanks Jon- I was looking through all of my old material but counld not find it- I was wondering if work had actually starting disableing my RPG fact recall.
That would be the slodak, which is already included in the DS3 Core Rules.
Hehe, thanks too, Jon. Now that you pointed it out I reread it and remembered that I once read it, long ago, and promptly forgot it.
Edit: the description of the swatter describes it as a half-giant weapon, but the two weapon damages listed are for small and medium creatures... IIRC, he wanted to use a 2 handed swatter. So we made the weapon size Large (so that he could use it 1 handed, as it is the same size as the weilder) which brought the damage up to 3d8. Impressed with the damage for his 1 handed weapon, he decided to make it so large he had to weild it 2-handed. that brought the damage up to 4d8 damage. I don't recall his strength bonus, but if it were +6, he could have rolled 4d8+9 damage as a 4th level character (1st level fighter)...
I don't know if this was intentional, or if you feel that the half-giant should roll damage like that, but as a DM I kind of felt cheated, or that I had done something wrong in allowing that kind of weapon...
Edit Edit: All above was piecing together a game that happened several months ago. I see that the above is using 3.0 logic, as the rules for weapons had changed. Under 3.5 rules, the damage would have stopped at 3d8. I don't know if I misread the rules the same way then. Honestly the whole business had me confused.
I do have one suggestion, though... as one of your standard races is large size, perhaps you could include a Large damage column for the half-giant players?