The problem I'm arriving at is this: A kreen can travel 38+ miles in a day and they don't sleep. I'm currently starting them in the shadow of the Blackspine Mountains, just north of Nibenay. The problem comes from the pacing. Basically, I want the kreen to go on a short circle taking about two weeks or so while the eggs at their dej hatch. Since kreen have a movement of 40, and don't sleep, they could conceivably travel as far as Balic and back in that time - hardly what I had in mind.
Anyone else have a problem with the scale of Athas? I like where everything's at, I just feel the actual area is a bit small. I've had similar problems with players who take crodlus as their riding animals.
It's not a big deal for early in this campaign, as they'll be traveling with the pack and moving at the pack's pace (which includes younguns). But when they're on their own, they'll have the ability to 'push it' and travel much, much faster from point to point.
I've had plenty of parties that included a thri-kreen. The problem here is that every PC is a kreen - they're a full blown kreen clutch. It's not a problem, yet. Hell, I haven't even started the adventure - they just made their characters. But slowing them down is going to be an issue. Even if I pregenerate encounters and lay them in their path, that will mean they'll likely jump levels enroute to whereever they're going - also not desired. If the Tablelands were, say, a factor of 10 larger, it would be perfect, and that might be what I end up doing.
Sandstorms and Tyr Storms would/should slow them up, as well as dropping warring elf tribes in there path. Each of those would give little to no Exp.
I've had plenty of parties that included a thri-kreen. The problem here is that every PC is a kreen - they're a full blown kreen clutch. It's not a problem, yet. Hell, I haven't even started the adventure - they just made their characters. But slowing them down is going to be an issue. Even if I pregenerate encounters and lay them in their path, that will mean they'll likely jump levels enroute to whereever they're going - also not desired. If the Tablelands were, say, a factor of 10 larger, it would be perfect, and that might be what I end up doing.
Make them play the Hunt Mentality...
If too complicated, burden them with a Dwarf NPC or a Thri-Kreen Expert NPC who is missing a leg... That should reduce their overland movement.
Tyr storms won't be happening for another ten years or so, but I do have plans for Silt/Sand storms in the near future. The problem would come from overusing that. Warring tribe of elves is a good one, as is roving bands of To'Ksa (they're Jeral). I was planning on a few of these, but I don't want to go overboard. I'll probably try to rope them into either Nibenay or Balic (or possibly Gulg - my players in the past have always avoided Gulg and Draj).
You could also cripple a few pack mates which would slow them down as well.
You could also try to draw or divert their attention in some way? An oasis off the beaten path after losing water to a sandstorm or chasing down several stray elves who survived a skirmish for food would also do the trick.
Just throwing out some random ideas.
It just doesn't seem like Athas is all that isolated; your average athasian, knowing another city was only a couple days away, at most, would be much more likely to leave their own city for greener pastures. Of course, we know they'd probably be eaten by a grue, but they wouldn't necessarily know that. From reading the Wanderer's Journal and the books of the Prism Pentad, it seemed that the cities were MUCH farther apart.
For example, take the Crimson Legion. In that book, it takes Rikus a week or so just to find the Urikite army. Then it takes him weeks to travel north to Urik. WEEKS! Were they dragging a dead mekillot behind them? I just think that the "mile marker" on the map of Athas, and the descriptions for the campaign world are a little off.
They'll lose the anchor of their pack very shortly. I won't say more due to the fact they might read these boards, but slowing the pack won't slow them for long. I have a few ideas that might work, but my point was that, as a whole, the map of Athas is a bit small. The crescent ridge, for example is only six miles long. The armies of Gulg and Nibenay could engage each other without even a fast hour's march. A person walking at a normal pace could easily make the walk, along the road, from Tyr to Urik in less than two days. And so on.
It just doesn't seem like Athas is all that isolated; your average athasian, knowing another city was only a couple days away, at most, would be much more likely to leave their own city for greener pastures. Of course, we know they'd probably be eaten by a grue, but they wouldn't necessarily know that. From reading the Wanderer's Journal and the books of the Prism Pentad, it seemed that the cities were MUCH farther apart.
Its not so much the actual distance that makes travel across the Tyr region dangerous, but more of what lies between each town or city-state. Oppressive heat, unpredictable weather, nightmarish creatures, blood thristy raiders. Thats what makes travel across the Tablelands unappealing if not down right frightening.
For example, take the Crimson Legion. In that book, it takes Rikus a week or so just to find the Urikite army. Then it takes him weeks to travel north to Urik. WEEKS! Were they dragging a dead mekillot behind them? I just think that the "mile marker" on the map of Athas, and the descriptions for the campaign world are a little off.
A ton of stuff transpired between Tyr and Urik that more than likely slowed down Rikus and his legion greatly (I'm half way thru rereading Crimson Legion again).
Its not so much the actual distance that makes travel across the Tyr region dangerous, but more of what lies between each town or city-state. Oppressive heat, unpredictable weather, nightmarish creatures, blood thristy raiders. Thats what makes travel across the Tablelands unappealing if not down right frightening.
Agreed, but in two days, if you stayed in the shade for a reasonable amount of time, or had a simple 1 gallon waterskin, the elements would not be an issue. The greater threats are the nightmarish creatures, as you say, but with a city only a day or two away (instead of several), your chances actually aren't that bad. I relate this to penguin mentality when there's a leopard seal around.
They all gather at the edge of the ice and pep each other up to go in the water, then they dive in twenty at a time. Sure, the leopard seal gets one or two, but the vast majority make it. The same would hold true for the city-states. If the distance was, at best, a week or more, those numbers start to diminish rapidly. Water becomes a serious issue after two days, as does navigation, finding food, etc. A person packing a light load could easily have enough supplies to last a couple days. It's much harder to pack for a week's travel. You have to actually say - "that much water will be too heavy. I can't carry that much food. I'll need a lot of room for weapons and hunting gear." and so on. Basically, your average Athasian would never leave their city if that were the case. However, since the actual distance is only a day or two, I'd be surprised if large numbers of pilgrims were constantly leaving and arriving at new cities in droves.
Nothing in the sourcebooks or novels suggests that this is the case.
A ton of stuff transpired between Tyr and Urik that more than likely slowed down Rikus and his legion greatly (I'm half way thru rereading Crimson Legion again).
Granted, not the least of which was a war and running battle. But even so, the Urikite army was withdrawing quickly back to Urik and not taking their time. Even when they stopped at Kled, it had taken the Tyrian Legion days to get there. If memory serves me right, Kled's about ten miles or less from Tyr. Get where I'm going with this?
Granted, not the least of which was a war and running battle. But even so, the Urikite army was withdrawing quickly back to Urik and not taking their time. Even when they stopped at Kled, it had taken the Tyrian Legion days to get there. If memory serves me right, Kled's about ten miles or less from Tyr. Get where I'm going with this?
I could speculate further in order to provide more reasons for slower rates of travel, but I seriously see where your coming from.
Have them get the attention of a tribe of Elves, and have to deal with the Elves randomly attacking them whenever they are travelling - that's a possibility for slowing them up a bit.
A running battle with a tribe of elves is part of the story arc, but there are two issues with having this be a continual way of slowing the party down:
1) Experience. The PCs will, undoubtably, kill more than a few of the elves and they will gain experience when they do so. Unless, of course, the entire tribe shows up and then just kills them - and that's not a lot of fun for anyone.
2) Contrived. It's contrived and with all my players experienced role-players and all over 30, and all pretty bright, they would see through it in an instant.
Not trying to shoot all these ideas down, I'm just looking for compelling realistic reasons why the Tablelands are described as being so isolated when, geographically (wandering nightmare beasts or no), that just isn't the case.
Not trying to shoot all these ideas down, I'm just looking for compelling realistic reasons why the Tablelands are described as being so isolated when, geographically (wandering nightmare beasts or no), that just isn't the case.
Stupid question, but have you factored in the types of terrain they would be crossing over or thru?
Stupid question, but have you factored in the types of terrain they would be crossing over or thru?
Solid point- Dawnstealewr, the movement you have been quoting is for travel on roads- if they are traveling through a trackless environment the daily movement in miles change.
That's correct, but even movement through trackless waste is only halved (I believe), so a kreen could still move at 19 miles a day and, even considering they'd stop for the night, would still reach any city in a day or two at most (because if they're traveling overland, they're likely going point-to-point as opposed to the circuitous road. All roads lead to Altaruk or Silver Spring).
How about requiring the PC's to make survival checks during travel to determine if they are on course or not.
This combined with some weather problems (i.e. sand storms and maybe a Tyr-storm) will solve the problem of having characters move too quickly without needlessly throwing random encounters in their path. If they did well with the checks and what-not, I would still give them xp for good role-playing (if it happened) but it would not be enough to level them.
A running battle with a tribe of elves is part of the story arc, but there are two issues with having this be a continual way of slowing the party down:
1) Experience. The PCs will, undoubtably, kill more than a few of the elves and they will gain experience when they do so. Unless, of course, the entire tribe shows up and then just kills them - and that's not a lot of fun for anyone.
2) Contrived. It's contrived and with all my players experienced role-players and all over 30, and all pretty bright, they would see through it in an instant.
Not trying to shoot all these ideas down, I'm just looking for compelling realistic reasons why the Tablelands are described as being so isolated when, geographically (wandering nightmare beasts or no), that just isn't the case.
I guess you could consider it as contrieved. Personally, I had a tribe of Elves hunt a party, and rather than direct conflict, the tribe did a number of things to impede the group's mobility, or even misdirecting the group once or twice. Everything from laying down traps ahead of them, to leading the group into patches of sand cacti. I had some Elves actually go and slit their waterskins one night (while their Thri-Kreen was away), but I don't think that would have too much of an impact on your group of all TK's. I guess you just have to come up with creative solutions.
Far side of the Blackspines might not be a bad solution, as part of the story is the rising gith populations there (wonder why THAT is...).
Far side of the Blackspines might not be a bad solution, as part of the story is the rising gith populations there (wonder why THAT is...).
I loved that adventure. It was fun to run it as a 2e adventure, I'm sure it would be insane converted to 3.5.
Back to the size of things: something else I just thought of is that Crescent Ridge. So it's six miles long. Nibenay has been working at chopping it down (against Lalalai Puy's wishes, granted) for the better part of a thousand years. Even at one tree a day, and they likely take much more than that, the forest would be long, long gone.
It's too small, dammit! :P
Back to the size of things: something else I just thought of is that Crescent Ridge. So it's six miles long. Nibenay has been working at chopping it down (against Lalalai Puy's wishes, granted) for the better part of a thousand years. Even at one tree a day, and they likely take much more than that, the forest would be long, long gone.
It's too small, dammit! :P
I don't think that the Nibenay/Gulg conflict stems from the Nibenese actively trying to destory the forest but its more that they don't replace what they take.
There are other problems with the size of Athas as written, too. I worked out that the territory of one single wolf would take up five or six individual hexes. I can't recall who said this before, but apparently if the printed map were a sattelite view, you could actually see the Dragon of Tyr wandering about, as a 2mm dot.
In my campaign, I doubled the size of the scale of the map. So, from Tyr, it take two day by forced march to reach Fort Skonz. Two week to reach Urik. Three week to reach Balic. And that if you follow the road. It take even more time to travel outside the road. In my campaign, it took a month and a half to cross the Ringing mountain near Ogo (from Makla to Ogo). So in my campaign, Athas is really huge and you must pack a lot of food and water to travel from a city to another.
The obvious answer is to multiply the distances involved by 2, or 4. It's something I've thought about.
There are other problems with the size of Athas as written, too. I worked out that the territory of one single wolf would take up five or six individual hexes. I can't recall who said this before, but apparently if the printed map were a sattelite view, you could actually see the Dragon of Tyr wandering about, as a 2mm dot.
In my last campaign, I wanted the party to never leave the Ivory Triangle. The whole lack of distance thing also struck me (Gulg and Nibenay are less than a day apart for a mounted rider!), so I multiplied distances by 10. This made the trip from Nibenay to Gulg even by the direct route a much longer (and therefore dangerous) prospect, and allowed me to insert several client villages, forts and ruins between the two city states.
I have no idea what this would do to a game on a much larger scale, but the x10 thing is quite easy to implement and remember, and would also keep your pack of kreen focused to a given geographic area if that was your desire.
I had no real issues (it was a house rule declared at the start which helped), and found it actually helpful in that telling my players it would take over a month to go to a city other than Nibenay or Gulg meant that they kept to the region of the map I wanted by their own choice.
Relying on encounters to keep PCs somewhere is not nearly as effective, they will just feel even more rewarded once they eventually get where they want to go.
...Group hug? Anyone?
HEY! Where are you guys going?!
I've gone that route as well, but feel that someone might have dropped a decimal point when they made the key for the maps.
I agree. I am currently running a campaign that started the group as arena slaves in Shazlim. They have escaped, and have discovered that they need to get to Raam. But, according to the map, Raam is only a day away (around 30 miles) via full-paced travel. Now, you can throw curveballs and such to slow things down, but I agree with distances just seeming too short for some reason. I don't know if I would go for a factor of ten though. . . Shazlim to Raam being approximately 300 miles is just a bit much, but maybe a factor of 3-5 somewhere might help even things out.
If everyone can go from outpost/town to the next outpost/town in a day, why bother being a bandit? No sense being a highwayman if help/sanctuary/reinforcements are only a day away.
Depending on the weather, the roads linking the city-states could be downgraded from Highway to Road, imposing a move penalty on most terrain types. Particularly bad sandstorms will render some roads completely trackless until they are restored.
Most characters in my game prefer to limit their travel to night, preferring to risk Athasian predators and cold over harsh sunlight and dehydration. When characters travel through the day, either on a forced march or otherwise, they need to take shade and heat exhaustion into account, in addition to fatigue caused by any forced marching. Excessive nonlethal damage can put a real kink in a group's stride.
Rather than coming across as obstacles that you throw in your player's path, these factors are inherent to the setting and the environment. If you apply and enforce them every time wilderness travel occurs, it should reinforce the feeling that the wilderness is a harsh place, rather than just passing scenery.
Mind you, the distances aren't all that bad, either imho. By road from Tyr to Urik is just over 130 miles, afaik. At a walk, that takes over 4 days. You can cut that to two days, but only with 16 hours of forced marching thrown in. Depending on the daytime temperature, those daylight hours will require between 4 and 10 Fort saves to avoid heat damage, with a similar amount at night. And if the road across the Alluvial Wastes has deteriorated to any great degree, another 2 days worth of travel could be required. For the regular traveller, bad weather could mean that getting to Urik takes almost a week. This doesn't mean that you should use the environment to hamper travel every time the PCs go anywhere, only that you should use it often enough for it to be a factor.
I agree that weather, heat, encounters, and such can be used to slow a party down. The problem is that you're constantly coming up with reasons to slow them down. If you're constantly looking for methods to slow them down, then that means that, initially, they are traveling too fast. Either they're movement rate is too great (not the case) or the distances involved are too small (where my argument is). If the distance is increased by five, or even two, the problem goes away.
Granted, at higher levels it becomes a moot point thanks to powers and spells and better (flying) steeds.
The Tyr region is the size of the American Southwest or the Middle East.
It's not that small.
I agree that weather, heat, encounters, and such can be used to slow a party down. The problem is that you're constantly coming up with reasons to slow them down. If you're constantly looking for methods to slow them down, then that means that, initially, they are traveling too fast. Either they're movement rate is too great (not the case) or the distances involved are too small (where my argument is). If the distance is increased by five, or even two, the problem goes away.
I hear what you're saying here, but my point is more that environmental obstacles really aren't reasons that you are constantly havong to come up with. They are actual in-game factors inherent to DS that slow all travel down in the first place, before you as DM even start thinking about other matters.
I guess what I mean is that, having made an issue out of travel from the word go, I have never found that it went by too quickly. In my games, travel through the wastes is part of the DS experience (it took my current group 2 sessions to get from Silver Spring to Tyr at the start of the campaign; an older group took 3 sessions to get from Tyr to Raam). But, if you've already started to have problems with it, then instituting environmental factors after the fact could seem heavy-handed. An upscale by a factor of five isn't going to break anything either way.
This comes up most often when a human(oid) PC gets ahold of a crodlu, which pretty much makes it possible to travel from city to village one day, then village to the next city the next day. The PC never has to camp "in the wastes" and subject themselves to the dangers inherent in doing so. The only time they'd be threatened is if some beast tries to either run them down, or attack the village they're staying in. Widening the distance on the map takes care of this as they must be a bit more careful and running to the nearest village or city isn't quite possible. Crodlu are damn fast and really throw a wrench into things.
The second issue is thri-kreen. When your PCs have a thri-kreen in their party, it's not such a big deal - the other PCs will keep the kreen in check. However, when the entire party is PCs, they don't need as much water, they can travel through the night, etc.
I think I might increase the size by a factor of five in my campaign. I've used a lot of the gimmicks above, as well, but it just seems the better solution is if the area was a little larger. It doesn't need to be completely out of control (x10), but by five isn't so bad.
I agree that weather, heat, encounters, and such can be used to slow a party down. The problem is that you're constantly coming up with reasons to slow them down. If you're constantly looking for methods to slow them down, then that means that, initially, they are traveling too fast. Either they're movement rate is too great (not the case) or the distances involved are too small (where my argument is). If the distance is increased by five, or even two, the problem goes away.
Granted, at higher levels it becomes a moot point thanks to powers and spells and better (flying) steeds.
I use X4 myself. It's laughable to talk about deep in the heart of the Crescent forest at the scale it's presented in... kinda like going in a small village's crossroads and calling it downtown.
Environmental dangers are all well and good, but I feel that too much of this thing will begin to feel contrived by the PCs after a short time. Besides which I don't feel converting the four day Tyr-to-Urik trip into a forty day trip is altogether bad (except how it suddenly becomes inconsistent with book 2 of the pentad). That is one of the longer trips to make, Nibenay-to-Gulg can be done in less than a day... I think the two cities would be in view of each other if a few trees were not in the way.
Expanding the distances make travel between City-States a real effort logistically. It also gives you room to invent client villages, forts and ruins within a city-state's sphere of influence, which is personally the thing I really like.
Environmental dangers are all well and good, but I feel that too much of this thing will begin to feel contrived by the PCs after a short time.
Absolutely agree with you here. x10 is a bit larger than I was looking for, but x5 is just about right.
Absolutely agree with you here. x10 is a bit larger than I was looking for, but x5 is just about right.
Can you provide comments in a few weeks time on how this house rule effected the campaign.
Environmental dangers are all well and good, but I feel that too much of this thing will begin to feel contrived by the PCs after a short time. Besides which I don't feel converting the four day Tyr-to-Urik trip into a forty day trip is altogether bad (except how it suddenly becomes inconsistent with book 2 of the pentad). That is one of the longer trips to make, Nibenay-to-Gulg can be done in less than a day... I think the two cities would be in view of each other if a few trees were not in the way.
I know what you mean.
And Lalali-Puy would just have to say: "Juduga, would you be a pal and go to the Mopti wall to see what Nibenay's planning? Thank you."
I mean, I know next door neighbors can have fights but these guys have armies. Gotta have 'em travel a bit, if not, it would probably leave to much room for "Knock, Knock" jokes.
European countries were, and are, right on top of each other for the most part during the Middle Ages and were constantly at war.
ridiculous. Athas is not Europe. The actual scale make no sense at all. The city-state are suppose to be isolated from each other.
Just sharing some insight. Its not as far fetched as it seems. City-states are pretty isolated if you take into account the inhospitable environment and creatures that stalk the wilds of the waste. A several days travel can seem like and eternity in those sort of conditions.
I still say the cities are too close and making them analogous to Europe would be similar to making it like Forgotten Realms. I respect you, you crazy bostonian, but I have to go with Pringles on this one.
True, but I tend to agree that Europe is a bad analogy for Athas. A better one would be Sumeria. People are clustered around the verdant belts and the few places were water is still (kind of) plentiful. Everyone else is just lucky to be alive and have learned how to survive in the desert.
I still say the cities are too close and making them analogous to Europe would be similar to making it like Forgotten Realms. I respect you, you crazy bostonian, but I have to go with Pringles on this one.
I was referencing Europe more to illustrate distance than I was stating that Athas mirrors it socially or environmentally.
Geez guys don't be so damn literal. :P ;)
Bah, I say!
When the revised set came out, the original scale was kept but all of the newer areas were much more spread out, making the Tyr Region a small portion of a much larger area.
I agree with a lot of what everyone is saying about the distances and inconsistencies, but the truth of the matter is the whole original DS world is full of errors b/c there was not enough control at the top (within TSR).
This is something that will never really be fixed because of the limitation of time and the amount of material that Athas.org can really produce on their free time- it took years for TSR to screw up the setting and Athas.org cannot recreate the wheel. I have never really paid that much attention to the official distances before, but now I plan on 'house-ruling' some changes in the distances between city-states.
A good way to make the change would be to 1) never really allow the players to get an official map, 2) tell them the maps are just like the ones made centuries ago and distances are not accurate, 3) scan the area of the map you want and insert your own scale.
This is all just my
and I expect to get some change back. :DOh, and reading through the Wanderer's Journal provided more proof to my argument that the Tablelands are just the "Eastern side" of a much larger area surrounding the Sea of Silt. I'll post the quotes when I get home (although it probably calls for its own thread - I won't hijack my own).
I've also said in the past that since humanity on this world came from one small, central source (the Pristine Tower), they could not have spread very far in 4,000 years or so. It took humanity well over 10,000 to spread across Africa, Asia and Europe.
Oh, and reading through the Wanderer's Journal provided more proof to my argument that the Tablelands are just the "Eastern side" of a much larger area surrounding the Sea of Silt. I'll post the quotes when I get home (although it probably calls for its own thread - I won't hijack my own).
I tend to think, that due to the inhospitable conditions of the world, humanoids probably aren't the primary kind of creature out there, or rather... mammilians. I tend to think that Insectiods and Reptillians would tend to be more commonplace, with some Avians possibly. Mammilian races, in my view, would exist, but not be the dominant kind of life. So, there is the Kreen Empire to the west, that spider-like species to the south (past the Deadlands, and partially into it), I'd figure that there will be some more reptillian cultures in other areas. These would be races that were not made by the Pristine Tower, races that had been the result of normal development on a world that has been quite harsh for a few millenia.
Time for a new thread?
So, there is the Kreen Empire to the west, that spider-like species to the south (past the Deadlands, and partially into it)
What spider species? Is that from SotDL?
What spider species? Is that from SotDL?
Erm... the ones that there's undead entries for them in ToDL. I wanna say "Crimson warders" or something like that. Haven't dug through that material in a while.
As far as these spider-critters go, they're undead, right? What if these spider-critters are Athasian fae (aka pixies)? I always figured the fae in Dark Sun would be, well, darker.
Well, I think this thread's gone as far as it's going to go, so I declare it hijacked.
As far as these spider-critters go, they're undead, right? What if these spider-critters are Athasian fae (aka pixies)? I always figured the fae in Dark Sun would be, well, darker.
I believe, actually, there are undead, and living ones. The Living ones serve the undead ones, hoping to eventually achieve the esteemed status of being undead, or something like that.
I doubled the scale on the map and then told the PCs the maps they had were written in a GENERAL scale - each city-state has it's own weights and measures (including distance). The maps show only a GENERAL location of the city, town, fort, road, etc., not the exact location. Some distances may be longer or shorter depending on the reliability of the map.
(For my own purposes the maps the PCs had use a REALIABILITY MULTIPLIER - all official map starts at RMx2 and go up from there - one nasty map they had contained 4 different RMs on it - they finally used it as kindling in one of their fires) :D
I have made a number of maps on old peices of blank newsprint paper and under and overexagerated distances and let the Players use them to guide their characters (obviously the Players knew the maps were wrong, but they were pretty good about not letting their knowledge influence their characters).
In my campaigns the merchants use a system of measure as a standard of distance... The cloth map from the Expanded Campagin Box Set i used as a very expensive (5sp) merchant map that the showed relative distances (+/- 10 STRIDES). Accurate merchant maps are very rare and very expensive (much like the Portugese Rutters of 16th century that showed Magellians Pass) - after all, speedy delivery of goods increases profits.
A HOOF = the size of an adult crodlu foot - about 8 inches
A TREAD = the size of a walking stride of an adult crodlu - about 2.5 feet
A TRACK = the span between footprints of a running crodlu - about 5 feet.
A STRIDE = 1000 tracks (or 5000 feet - just short of an earth mile of 5280ft).
I've used maps as treasure - I based an entire campaign arc on the pursuit of a map that showed over a dozen passes through the Ringing Mountains and another map that showed an ancient road system that was long since burried by the desert sands.
Weight is measured in PEBBLEs, STONEs...
Water is measured in SKINs and CASKs...
I also tackled the idea of there being racial measures...
The Aarakocra used SPANs - the distance from wingtip to wing tip.
Elves use a RUN - the space between the footprints of a running elf - a RACE = 100 RUNs...
Humans used HEADS and HANDs, which is different from a Halfling HAND and a Half-Giant HAND.... (you get the idea).
thinking that you might be going about this the wrong way. If your story hinges on the PC's taking so much time on their journey, why not add to the story, rather than changing the world of Athas to suit it.
. I like the methods of measurement a great deal - they add some really excellent flavour to the game. I also have plans to use the cloth map - it's going to end up as a much-sought after item that shows the location of the Pristine Tower (allegedly penned by the Wanderer or some such tosh).The spider-things are called the s'thag zagath. They are spawned from Green Age artifacts known as Birthing Stones. Their most common undead form is the scarlet warden, made loyal to their living brethren by a special ritual.
Hey Dawn...
thinking that you might be going about this the wrong way. If your story hinges on the PC's taking so much time on their journey, why not add to the story, rather than changing the world of Athas to suit it.
Exactly what I usually do. But I've also found that Athas is too small from a realistic standpoint. My argument is not that I am not creative enough to fill time, but rather that descriptions in the sourcebooks and descriptions in the various stories (especially the Prism Pentad) describe Athas as much, much larger than the map for the Tablelands would suggest. It's described as a vast wasteland and, while the "wasteland" part is certainly correct, "vast" is not.