nic
Ok, so could someone please point out to me what the balance drawback for defiling is? In other words, aside from fluffiness, what are game balance reasons for choosing to preserve instead of defile? Sure there are hefty penalties for becoming a preserver once already a defiler, but why bother redeeming at all? Is the only counter-balance a role-playing one of fluff, or is there a more concrete reason somewhere that shows defiling cutting oneself off from something? thanks.
nic
Um lets see the penalties of defiling...... it makes it real obvious that you are a wizard when you cast and in most places that will get you killed..... by the populace, by the templars (unless you work for their SK), or by the veilled alliance. Preservers have an easier time hiding their casting.
The ethical and ecological reasons are obvious....
but power wise defiling is a quicker, easier path..... which is why most arcane casters are defilers....
If you want a power-balance, you could use Dragon Mag's defiling rules. Free metamagic for defiler points. The more points you have, the more dice-roll penalties you have to everything else. It's better explained in the article, but it's fairly balanced.
I actually wrote up a defiling system that combines both athas.org's and Dragon Mag's HERE.
Mike's Preservers/Defilers
It's a mish-mash of 2e and Athas.org's 3e with a little bit of me thrown in (no, not like that, sicko). I make the defiler the better choice until about 10th level, then their spell-progression slows down. At the same time, preservers at 10th level begin to speed up.
The major downfall is the addiction of defiling, which is based on the rules in Vile Darkness.
Hmmm...I could toss you my version, although I don't know whether you'd like it or not:
Mike's Preservers/Defilers
It's a mish-mash of 2e and Athas.org's 3e with a little bit of me thrown in (no, not like that, sicko). I make the defiler the better choice until about 10th level, then their spell-progression slows down. At the same time, preservers at 10th level begin to speed up.
The major downfall is the addiction of defiling, which is based on the rules in Vile Darkness.
I like it, but the addiction mechanic seems a bit harsh.
It certainly is. And it's tied to the defiler's level. For Keltis to turn into Oronis it must have taken an incredible willpower, and is also one of the reasons why defilers are so unlikely to reform. Made sense to me.
I don't know. Under that mechanic it would make the SK's seem more like pathetic crack addicts vs awe inspiring near deities.
I don't know. Under that mechanic it would make the SK's seem more like pathetic crack addicts vs awe inspiring near deities.
Power breeds corruption! I would say that SK's are very similar to a crack addict- why else would someone go to such lengths to transform their bodies and twist their souls if not addicted to the power that it gives them.
IMO I think that it is a good idea to have defilers reap some hazards for the road they travel. In my campaign, I have all defilers have something like the Tainted Aura that the PrC Arch Defiler has (I call it an Aura of Defilement), though the radius is only 5' and the penalties only go to a -4 (-1 per 5 lvls). This aura of defilement is over-ridden if they take a PrC that has the tainted aura feature.
I don't know. Under that mechanic it would make the SK's seem more like pathetic crack addicts vs awe inspiring near deities.
Yeah, but pathetic crack addicts that drive around in M-1A1 tanks. Makes them a bit more dangerous and unstable. Also, if you want, the Champion prestige class might suck some of that away, making the Champs a lot more stable than a regular defiler with the same power level. Edge would definitely go to the SKs, in that case.
[edit] Also, you have to remember that defilers don't care about the world around them, and the rages that come with dragonhood could very well be linked to this addiction and the rush of power (like smoking a cigarette and then smoking crack - huge difference for the would-be dragon). From the books, I judged that defiling was an ultimate rush. Defilers would be very likely to defile even when they didn't need to, just to get that rush. Hence the addiction.[/edit]
Power breeds corruption! I would say that SK's are very similar to a crack addict- why else would someone go to such lengths to transform their bodies and twist their souls if not addicted to the power that it gives them.
I like to think of the SK's as cool, calm and calculating beings that more or less maintain some sort self control, not mega powerful dope fiends.
If something was worked in as part of the Champion template as Dawn suggested I could some what see the addiction factor as a workable mechanic.
I don't think I'll be incorporating into my campaign but do see it as a cool and unique idea.
I like to think of the SK's as cool, calm and calculating beings that more or less maintain some sort self control, not mega powerful dope fiends.
I don't know...I think I prefer mega-powerful dope fiend...
Very unstable.
I like to think of the SK's as cool, calm and calculating beings that more or less maintain some sort self control, not mega powerful dope fiends.
If something was worked in as part of the Champion template as Dawn suggested I could some what see the addiction factor as a workable mechanic for them.
I don't think I'll be incorporating into my campaign but do see it as a cool and unique idea.
I agree with you on the point that SK's should not be included in the "norm" when discussing defilers as a whole. They have survived for thousands of years and are way freaking powerful. This would give them a great advantage over your average defiler.
Now, you would have to agree that a majority (I do not say allbacause I do not want to globalize) of defilers would not have the extreme force of personality and the experience that the SK's possess- part of which makes them unique. Your average defiler is about "more now"; else they would have taken the path of the preserver.
As a side note, what would you folks say about having a Specialist PrC, similar to your average specialists in the PH? The only reason that I bring this up is I have always noticed that there are no specialists in DS, and I know that part of the reason would be because of the lack of proper magic schools and the necessity of keeping their magical activities a secret.
Now, you would have to agree that a majority (I do not say allbacause I do not want to globalize) of defilers would not have the extreme force of personality and the experience that the SK's possess- part of which makes them unique. Your average defiler is about "more now"; else they would have taken the path of the preserver.
I agree in that there is a vast difference SK and your "common" defiler. However, I feel its more that its the fact of a being of weak will or questionable character would resort to defiling in order to cut corners vs thats its an out right addiction.