Just curious if anybody has received a copy of the adventure yet?
Gotcha
So in other words the May release date more than likely isn't happening?
Gotcha
My point is that a man on the inside (Jamie) reads and posts here. When it's released he'll announce it here, I'm quite certain.
Ravenmantle
So in other words the May release date more than likely isn't happening?
Gotcha
~~~
T.B.A. apparently.
:heehee
Their product schedule is comical indeed.
~~~
In doing so it won't raise expectations and leave room for disappointment.
Their product schedule is comical indeed.
You're still here?
Cheers,
Cam
You're still here?
Cheers,
Cam
That's the same question I ask when referring to the DragonLance product line(with all of the excessive delays it cannot hope to last for much longer). :D
Nothing better to do apparantly...
There are only two "a's" in apparently, not three.
~~~
I'm not trying to be malicious, but it might be better off to list it that way.
In doing so it won't raise expectations and leave room for disappointment.
Agreed; good thinking. Especially since the excessive delays are starting to become a routine thing.
~~~
(accidental post)
Good things are worth waiting for. ;)
that sounds like it came from a fortune cookie.
The way things are going, it looks as though we will have to wait until August or September.
Lets hope not. I'd hate to put my campaign on hold for that long
The way things are going, it looks as though we will have to wait until August or September.
You could wait that long, but the product will be on the shelves for several months waiting for you if you do. It's coming very, very soon.
Cheers,
Cam
Lets hope not. I'd hate to put my campaign on hold for that long
True; Although I am currently putting together an Eberron campaign, I still have players with characters between 3rd-5th level that were wanting to continue the DL campaign as well. They are not so sure now.
Recently, though I have not heard any of them mention the DL setting--lately--other than a bunch of jokes about the dependability of the SP product schedule it appears their interest in DL has waned quite a bit due to the excessive delays of the DL products.
~~~
That's good. I look forward to not having to deal with your negativity anymore.
LoL! Pitiful. Your making this a personal thing; I am not. Now try to curb your anger, and focus on what is being said here.
The fact of the matter is that with the product line being consistently delayed like this is not a good thing for the DL product line period. Only hardcore DL fans will be left to buy DL products, because the casual fans--whom indulge in more than Raistlin/Kitiara/4th age destroyed/5th age rebuilding/multiple wars/Morgion/good guys wear white robes/bad guys wear black robes(*repeat seven more times*)--that actually play multiple settings will not wait around a year--or more--for a delayed product.
In the long run, this kind of precedent is bad for a D&D setting; even one that has been around as long as DL has.
~~~
LoL! Pitiful. Your making this a personal thing; I am not.
Yes you are. Your posts are always personal in nature...always nagging, and always disrespectful.
Now try to curb your anger, and focus on what is being said here.
It's not anger...it's disgust.
casual fans--whom indulge in more than Raistlin/Kitiara/4th age destroyed/5th age rebuilding/multiple wars/Morgion/good guys wear white robes/bad guys wear black robes(*repeat seven more times*)--that actually play multiple settings
This is exactly what I'm talking about. This kind of disrespectful banter aimed at those of us who are long time fans...like we're somehow beneath you. You think awfully highly of yourself (one only has to read your signature to know I'm right), and it comes across in your posts...always.
will not wait around a year--or more--for a delayed product.
Hmm...this is the second time someone has mentioned this. When was it stated that SoS was supposed to come out last May?
In the long run, this kind of precedent is bad for a D&D setting; even one that has been around as long as DL has.
I disagree. I think it might be discouraging for the adventures (ie, SoS's delays will probably result in lower sales for PoC), but I don't think delays in the main products discourage people from buying other main books...especially if the quality stays as high as has the latest products.
Yes you are. Your posts are always personal in nature...always nagging, and always disrespectful.
per·son·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pûrs-nl)
adj.
Of or relating to a particular person; private: “Like their personal lives, women's history is fragmented, interrupted” (Elizabeth Janeway).
Speaking of a delay on a gaming product does not qualify as personal as verified by the definition above.
Impersonal: I have come to expect delays on DL products.
Personal: I look forward to not having to deal with your negativity anymore.
It's not anger...it's disgust.
Wait, I know a comeback: "I know you are, but what am I" ? But really, if your turned off by someone's posts simply click the ignore poster button. I had you on my ignore list for awhile.
You think awfully highly of yourself (one only has to read your signature to know I'm right),
Yes I do.
When was it stated that SoS was supposed to come out last May?
It was a joke, not actuality. Basically poking fun at the extended delays of the products. Just like if I see an old person and say "Wow! He's ancient!" It is not meant to be taken literally Brim.
I disagree. I think it might be discouraging for the adventures (ie, SoS's delays will probably result in lower sales for PoC), but I don't think delays in the main products discourage people from buying other main books...especially if the quality stays as high as has the latest products.
That's because you are looking from inside(i.e. a hardcore DL fan) rather than outside(i.e. Just a D&D player/consumer that plays each and every setting, or at least more than one with no bias towards one or the other.)
Delays in products will curb people away from buying DL products. Just as not making anymore--or a few--DL products would. That's my problem with hardcore fans; they can't see anything but good when dealing with DL(even when in the wrong). You have to see the consumer side of things as well. In any business when things are consistently late at one restaurant, and there is another restaurant to go to, people go there(i.e. to the one that does things on time) due to the service. This is no different with this industry. If DL gets a name for always being late, then the casual gamer will begin to play whatever can satisfy his/her needs when they need to be satisfied.
~~~
Impersonal: I have come to expect delays on DL products.
Personal: I look forward to not having to deal with your negativity anymore.
Oh, my post was definately personal, I wasn't denying that. And what you quoted above was not the part of your post that was. It's not even the negativity. I'm bummed about the delays, too. I've made my share of "Damnit, not again"s.
Maybe I'm just reading your posts the wrong way, but they always come across to me as being written by the self important guy who used to pick on the defensless kids back in high school who were different than him just because he could.
I had you on my ignore list for awhile.
I don't like the idea of ignore lists...I'm a glutton for punishment, I guess.
It was a joke, not actuality. Basically poking fun at the extended delays of the products. Just like if I see an old person and say "Wow! He's ancient!" It is not meant to be taken literally Brim.
Well, you weren't the first to say it, so I wondered if I was missing something...
That's because you are looking from inside(i.e. a hardcore DL fan) rather than outside(i.e. Just a D&D player/consumer that plays each and every setting, or at least more than one with no bias towards one or the other.)
I still think that's an incorrect assessment. I don't only play/purchase Dragonlance...but I do have a tendency to like worlds that don't come out with new books with any regularity. (in otherwords, they're published by smaller companies...not WotC) But it hasn't stopped me from purchasing those books when they finally do come out. But I do think that it's important for adventures to come out at fairly regular intervals (if they're going to be published). I also know, that due to the nature of the shared liscense of Dragonlance, that this isn't going to happen. Do I like this? No. Am I going to berrate Sovereign Press or the people working on it at every chance I get? Of course not (except maybe Trampas...but I think he likes it) :D
Delays in products will curb people away from buying DL products. Just as not making anymore--or a few--DL products would.
I disagree with that...but I guess we're not going to come together on this one
That's my problem with hardcore fans; they can't see anything but good when dealing with DL(even when in the wrong).
That's got to be a first. Usually it's the hardcore fans that see nothing but the bad (or at least mention nothing but the bad). But even though you have a problem with us, if you weren't so disrespectful towards us (like in the previous quote) your posts wouldn't bother so many of us...well, me anyway.
It would appear that patience is a virtue, but virtue is its own reward! :D
More fortune cookie talk.
More fortune cookie talk.
"That wasn't chicken you just ate"
Oh, sorry, got off topic... :D
Take the advice now, LoI - no conversation here is going to help make your E-Peen feel bigger. There will be no sudden vicissitude in the amount of people that purchase Dragonlance material simply because an item is delayed; in fact, for those that genuinely love a product, waiting only magnifies desire. If anything, the only thing I'm annoyed about in reference to delays is that it gives idiots like you more fodder to attempt to establish primacy in a setting in which said primacy is of no worth.
No one gives a damn about you, who you are, how intelligent you are, and what your reasonings are for your monumentally ridiculous attitude.
As for disagreeing, there's nothing wrong with having your own opinion. It's when someone states an opinion in a manner that attempts to make others seem inferior that I get annoyed.
LoL! Pitiful. Your making this a personal thing; I am not. Now try to curb your anger, and focus on what is being said here.
~~~
The word in bold above should be you're, as in you are.
Wait, I know a comeback: "I know you are, but what am I" ? But really, if your turned off by someone's posts simply click the ignore poster button. I had you on my ignore list for awhile.
The word in bold above should be you're, as in you are.
Not at all - and I wasn't telling him to stop, as I have no authority. Just some very strong advice. :D
As for disagreeing, there's nothing wrong with having your own opinion. It's when someone states an opinion in a manner that attempts to make others seem inferior that I get annoyed.
It appears that everyone in one way or another attempts to do this, through argumentation of course. Some are better and a tad bit more prudent in their statements.
Can everyone stop this bickering? Seriously, how many times do you have to go through the same song and dance of:
Someone asks when an SP product is coming out that is late. Then it turns into a huge bickerfest on how bad SP is at getting out a product, followed by a flamewar and then the thread gets locked. Then about 2 weeks pass and the whole thing starts up again.
I don't know why these products are always late and we're never going to get a straight answer out of SP (or people on here affiliated with them in some capacity) so most of us on here have no clue as to why this always happens, but you could specualte on a variety of reasons and I'm sure most would be true to some extent.
I could say a lot more and be critical of SP, but will it change anything? Of course not. Expect these products to be about 4-8 months late every time. If you don't like it, give your money to another gaming company and let your voice be heard that way.
Can everyone stop this bickering? Seriously, how many times do you have to go through the same song and dance of:
I haven't had a good bicker fest with LoI in quite some time. We were due. Now it's off my chest, and I'm over it. :D
Expect these products to be about 4-8 months late every time.
They aren't all that late. The DLCS, AoM, WotL were all out on time. The DLDMS, and TMP:AoM were both only a month late. ToHS, BoK, and KoD were all very late...and now SoS is very late...and HOoTS is moderately late. Were I a betting man, I'd say that LotT will be on time.
So...that's certainly not every time. That's not even 50% of the time. And, that's 11 products in two years...that's pretty damn good, if you ask me.
It would appear that Sov Press does not appreciate the voice of dissatissfied customers. Their defenders say that they would rather have late than never. Tis a predicament isnt it?
I think they do. Apparently you don't remember the dissatisfaction with certain sections in the DLCS. Compare that to the WotL book and try and tell me that Sovereign Press don't listen to their dissatisfied customers and take it to heart.
DLCS was not published by Sov Press.
But it was written by them.
It would appear that Sov Press does not appreciate the voice of dissatissfied customers. Their defenders say that they would rather have late than never. Tis a predicament isnt it?
Sapete, suonate molto esperti.
Cheers,
Cam
Guys,
Can everyone stop this bickering? Seriously, how many times do you have to go through the same song and dance of:
Someone asks when an SP product is coming out that is late. Then it turns into a huge bickerfest on how bad SP is at getting out a product, followed by a flamewar and then the thread gets locked. Then about 2 weeks pass and the whole thing starts up again.
I don't know why these products are always late and we're never going to get a straight answer out of SP (or people on here affiliated with them in some capacity) so most of us on here have no clue as to why this always happens, but you could specualte on a variety of reasons and I'm sure most would be true to some extent.
I could say a lot more and be critical of SP, but will it change anything? Of course not. Expect these products to be about 4-8 months late every time. If you don't like it, give your money to another gaming company and let your voice be heard that way.
You know Lorac, I was just about to say the same thing. Seriously, why do people even start threads on this subject anymore (not a shot at you Sysane)? Every time one of these threads comes up, they descend into a "bickerfest" (I believe another "B" word would fit a lot better though).
The fact of the matter is, Spectre of Sorrows is late. We ALL know this. If you don't like it, dump your money into another gaming world. Dragonlance RPG products will only be coming out from Sovereign Press, since Wizards of the Coast has other things to do (like releasing the same old crap over and over again, like the Planar Handbook...).
I work in video game sales, I am used to delay after delay after delay. You know, Gran Turismo 4 was delayed over a year from when it was supposed to come out the first time. Halo 2 was supposed to be out some time in 2003. Half-Life 2 was spoken of as being released some time in 2001. Circumstances prevented those games from coming out on time, circumstances prevented Spectre of Sorrows from coming out on time. Oh, and Halo 2 was the top selling video game of 2004, despite coming out in November, so being late did not affect the sales any.
Now can we stop arguing about the same old crap? Seriously, this is like the whole Raistlin's Daughter thing.
It would appear that Sov Press does not appreciate the voice of dissatissfied customers.
That's not the case at all. They appreciate that voice, but RPG books take months to make manifest, and any delay along the timeline can really flub things up. With a small company like that, they don't have the resources to pull out of a bind as quickly.
Quite honestly folks, this is getting old. Got a customer complaint? Take it directly to Sov. Press. That doesn't really belong on the boards anyway. If you want to voice your dissatisfaction with their schedule, then fine, but do it once and be done with it.
What gets tiring to me is when people harp about it, or take the opportunity to say, "I told you so". What good does that do anybody? All it does is rile up the boards, get people mad, and then there's a flame war.
This round-robin discussion is getting us nowhere. We are not learning anything from this. We are not helping to expedite the product. The voices have all been raised showing disappointment in the lateness of the product. I don't see how continuing through this cycle is going to benefit anyone. Sit back, relax, grab a beverage of your choice.
Perhaps Sov Press were to throw us a bone to satiate it would help.
You got the whole first chapter of Spectre of Sorrows. So far they've released on PrC from HOotS...not to mention, if you pre-ordered it you get a free poster, and (if I'm understanding the rumors correctly) a free signed copy of Guardians of the Lost.
That's quite the bone, I think.
Perhaps Sov Press were to throw us a bone to satiate it would help.
Spectre of Sorrows Web Preview
Loyalty is good for a company, blind loyalty to a fault it not.
How long ago did that come out? Something new to compensate would be greatly appreciated.
colormapswebenhancement
Oh, sorry...I had something in my throat. ;)
Loyalty is good for a company, blind loyalty to a fault it not.
I certainly don't have "blind" loyalty. I'm loyal to my friends...but not blindly so. I'm well aware of the faults...but I think they're out weighed by the possitives. Which you obviously don't, because you completely ignored my post where I tried to put the good and the bad in perspective. And that's fine...but don't call my loyalty to Sovereign Press foolish just because you disagree with it.
The comment about loyalty was a general one. Most people, from what I have been able to garner from these boards, are unable to dinstinguish between general and specific comments.
I don't know why ... we're never going to get a straight answer out of ... people on here affiliated with them in some capacity ...
The reason you don't get a "straight answer" out of folks like Trampas and Cam and Sean and the other freelancers is that they're simply not authorized to talk about it. It would be tremendously unprofessional for them to do so, and they don't.
This is a very common practice in almost any industry. Communication to the public from a company comes from (or is explicitly authorized by) one source and one source only. In the case of SP, that source is Jamie. To do otherwise would lead to confusion, mixed messages, and all sorts of other problems.
This isn't the SP freelancers being jerks. They're just doing their jobs.
I understand your point, but what I was saying is all anyone affilated has to say is "the product is still being edited" or something along those lines. I think that would go along way and I think the big complainers would quite down on here.
You are loyal to your friends? Do you personally know these people? If you do good for you.
The people who directly work for SP (Jamie, Sean, Margaret, etc.) not really, no.
The people who do work for SP, yes. (maybe it's a bit presumptuous on my part to call them friends...but I'd like to think that's the case)
I...
You know. I had a point when I started writing this post. Now it's gone.
Zoom. Just like that.
Geez.
Never mind.
It was something about product delays, Sov. Press, and irresponsible posters.
Oh crap.
Never mind.
I do not believe that asking those who are in charge to explain, what they can of course, about what is going on is an impossible request. I know that they are supposed to be having their items printed in China (I hope not through child labor camps, one never knows) because it is cheaper. Does that really pay off in the long run?
I'm not "in the know" or anything, but I think the reason they kind of keep everything tight-lipped might have something to do with WotC's involvement. It's not simply a matter of SP creating a book, checking for necessary edits, and sending it to the printers. There are probably some legal reasons involving the license which prevents SP from commenting on each and every step of the process. And even if they did reveal individual steps, then there might be the problem of people harassing any of the individuals who are stuck on the phase of the project being delayed, exacerbating the situation. In light of those various possibilities, I don't begrudge SP's not revealing what the status of a given project is. Late spring, early summer is also typically one of the busiest times of the year for printers, so even that could play a part in things, who knows. Point is, be patient, I'm sure SP won't let us down in the quality of the product we'll eventually be able to purchase.
The DLCS, AoM, WotL were all out on time. The DLDMS, and TMP:AoM were both only a month late.
AoM was scheduled for August 2003 and came out in September that year.
The DLDMS was scheduled for September 2003 and released in December 2003.
WotL was originally planned for August 2004 and ws released in October 2004
Quality has not been an issue, tardiness is.
That's very true, but wouldn't you rather have a more 'polished' product full of RPing goodness, rather than a shoddy, rushed one?
Point is, we don't know what all is really involved with the 'behind the scenes' steps of getting a product out to the public, especially when said product has to go through the hands of at least 2 different companies (WotC and SP) before you even involve printers and the like for the actual production of the product. Given that we don't know what is going on, and what is in the contracts, I don't think we have any right whatsoever to really demand of SP where they are at in the process of getting a product finished. Even if they did tell us, it might not reflect when the final release date was anyway.
If for example, they said the product is at the printers, that could mean anything. The printers could have the files, but have x number of printjobs lined up before SP's. They would probably have bluelines printed for SP to approve, requiring mailing feedback back and forth on the job. Plates need to be made for printing. There might be a printed proof after all that. And that's if everything has gone smoothly so far. (I'm somewhat familiar with this process being a graphic designer). Then there's the actual printing, drying time (each step can be measured in days or more), binding, and bulk freight back to the states. There's no simple answer for this kinda stuff really.
AoM was scheduled for August 2003 and came out in September that year.
That's because it came out for GenCon in August and hit the mass market in September.
WotL was originally planned for August 2004 and ws released in October 2004
Again, the difference between GenCon and mass market.
The issues as you point out are rather complex, however, that does not mean that they should not be updates to let us know. I dont think that people who love the game would complain if they knew about how much longer they would have to wait, campaigns, etc are dependant upon this information. For example, DMs might want to know how many more sessions to anticipate adding their own stuff or to hold off on a campaign.
It's cool, and I totally understand where your coming from, and to a certain extent, I agree. It's just all that stuff I mentioned was to illustrate the point that even if they said the module is at the printer, it's not something you can quantify, then plan for accordingly. "Being at the printer" could mean the product could be finished in 2 weeks, or it could mean 2 months, (etc) depending on the circumstances. There are times when not even SP might know how long it will take, so they probably couldn't give a release date even if they wanted to.
For my group, we finished KoD quite a while ago now. I ran a kinda complex sidequest trying to take up time. Frustrating? Heck yeah, but nothing we couldn't deal with. Our group decided instead to switch back to our on-going FR campaign that was put on hiatus so the DM for that game could take a break and actually play some again (he was suffering from DM burnout since he ALWAYS DMs and rarely got to play) We'll probably stick with FR for the better part of a year or so. This works out well since by then, SoS will definitely be out (by the time we pick up DL again), and with all the catching up the group would have to do running through SoS, we won't have to wait for PoC either (hopefully), so we can jump right into that. Not to mention all the supplemental books that will make the experience than much better by then (such as HOotS).