Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Sysane May 26, 2005 9:03:59	We know from previously published material that the Kreen Empire had plans to invade the Tyr Region. Unfortunately, the DS line was dropped prior to being fully developed.Just curious as to what people's perspectives were on the actual plot line and what it actually meant for the Tyr Region. Things to consider before sharing your thoughts would be the Empire's actual motivation and reason's behind the invasion, Key players that would be involved, and the radical or lasting changes for the world at large. With that being said, please feel free to share anything you'd like in regards to this. *Translation: I'm bored at work and I'm trying to kill time. Please entertain me! ;)
#2 terminus_vortexa May 26, 2005 11:03:00	My own personal take involves a lot of things from my own campaign. The Kreen have been scouting the Tablelands for invasion to gain the knowledge and power of the SKs, and to stop the destruction of the land, so their own lands are not defiled and blasted. In my Athas, only the Tablelands are all blasted and destroyed, the rest of the world is basically Green Age, aside from the red sun. The Kreen have plans to make their own SK Kreen, because they have been influenced by an extraplanar entity named Khajja Desilijic, who plans to fully restore Athas and use it as an Ark of sorts to preserve life while he destroys a very powerful malignant force named Stormweaver, and reshapes the multiverse in the process. He has caused the Kreen to seek out the knowledge and power of the Sorceror Kings, and make their own Kreen Dragon (The Terminus Vortexa!) so he can mind-switch with the Kreen Dragon and have the perfect body in which to do battle with Stormweaver. But the Zik'chil think it was their own idea to make a Dragon, and want to use it for the purpose of conquest, and have elemental priests on standby to repair any damage he does while he slays the SKs. The PCs have other plans , though, largely the same, but without so much Kreen involvement. They have a crystal containing a fragment of Khajja's essence, and if they can't make their own Kreen Dragon, they'll use the crystal to hijack the one the Empire made.
#3 dawnstealer May 26, 2005 11:41:21	Nice! Mine's a bit more standard than that: Beyond the Tablelands, Athas is a little better off, but is far from the Green Age Terminus mentioned. As of a few weeks ago, the kreen empire was just a small part of this. I had long ago surmised that the kreen were either the creations or the left-overs from the life-benders, banished to the lowest parts of the sea. When the oceans receded, they were left at the lowest part of the land - a vast savannah below sea level. This has changed a little bit since the last interview about "the rest of Athas being mostly kreen empire." I really, really dig that idea, and that's the way I'm going. Unfortunately for the kreen, the Zic-chil are hardly Lawful Good. While there is an emperor, it doesn't mean all his subjects aren't constantly jockeying for position. There are many nations in this empire and all are looking for ways to rise above their station. The invasion of the Tablelands, the last bastion of the humanoid races, is one such plan. A zic-chil long commanded to guard the border with the life-shapers (Rhulisti on the cliffs) has sent his scouts far and wide searching for more power. He has found it in the lands beyond the cliffs (the Tablelands) in the form of incredible sorcerers and masters of the Way. He wants that power for himself. There are a lot more grasslands in the kreen empire and they stretch to the West far beyond the known lands. To the north, it gets noticably hotter until even the kreen do not venture further. What lies beyond is a mystery even to them, for none have returned from the Northern Wastes. The zic-chil in charge of the borderlands has chosen to invade the Tablelands and certainly has the forces necessary to do so and even lay siege to the great cities of the humans. The problems arise in fighting the great magics of the Sorcerer-Kings. Will he succeed? WILL HE?!! Dunno.
#4 zombiegleemax May 26, 2005 11:59:18	I've posted a bit on this before. In my Athas the kreen basically follow the ideas in the Handbook i.e. those down on the Savanna are very sophisticated with a highly organised Empire, very different from the kreen roaming the Tablelands. The zik-chil are the core to the Empire, but they do so in a covert, power behind the throne way, being unable to assume control over the Empire themselves through limited numbers and internal power struggles. Furthermore, very few survive the creation process that allows them to become zik-chil from normal kreen eggs. They use their formidable psionic and magical powers to control and influence the Emperor (a partially Advanced kreen). While they have limited life-shaping skills, after discovering the Circlet of Life (Windriders book) and other artefacts left behind by Rajaat they have a fair mastery over life-shaping, enough to create Advanced Beings, but not enough to challenge the SK's of the Tablelands (who could unite to counter an invasion, especially while Borys was alive). The zik-chil thirst for power, and what could be more powerful than the Pristine Tower and the Dark Lens. Many of their scouts have infiltrated the Tablelands and those who survive brought back information on the Pristine Tower, but nothing concerning the Dark Lens. They have been unwilling to strike, however the fairly recent changes to the balance of power in the Tablelands has created a possible opening for conquest... If the kreen invade, they would be commanded by several Advanced (or Prestige class) Kreen (who mainly have augmented psionic - hive mind and physical attributes, that allow them to control and guide kreen legions). They would seek to take Tyr and Balic (who have no SK's), while sending screening forces to harass other cities near the Pristine Tower (these would keep mobile and try avoid major battles with Gulg and Nibenay). A command group with the zik-chil and the most powerful AB would head towards the Tower. If unopposed they would take it and secure the area, while the zik-chil attempt to decipher and augment themselves for the forthcoming confrontation with SK's and other powerful beings. The kreen, given numbers and psionic/augmented abilities (plus any artifacts) should be able to hold off several SK's and perhaps begin to win. However, they don't know about Dregoth, who should come as a major surprise... Players could be involved at a number of levels, initial discovery of kreen scouts and legions. Readying city defences, attempts to assassinate ranking kreen, their AB's or zik-chil (depending on power levels). Warning and seeking help from the SK's. Trying to discover the motive of the kreen etc.
#5 Sysane May 26, 2005 12:30:17	As of a few weeks ago, the kreen empire was just a small part of this. I had long ago surmised that the kreen were either the creations or the left-overs from the life-benders, banished to the lowest parts of the sea. When the oceans receded, they were left at the lowest part of the land - a vast savannah below sea level. I have a similar theory in that the primitive kreen of the Blue Age were altered by the rhulisti ( the future nature-benders) into a sort of slave race. After a few hundred years of oppression the kreen revolted starting a kreen/rhulisti war which spanned for a few decades. In the end the kreen, with the help of some sympathetic halflings, were freed and recognized as sentient beings and not simply another life-shaped tool. As for the present, I think I'm going to tie the Kreen Invasion with the arrival of the three rhulisti that were aboard the Messenger. One of the rhulisti (actually a nature-bender) is seeking to restore Athas under the rule of the halflings. The first part of his plan is to reassert control over kreen and dethrone the current Kreen Emperor with the aid of an ancient rhulisti artifact.
#6 dawnstealer May 26, 2005 13:09:18	That's going to be the cause of the earthquake in my campaign, something that won't be realized by the zik-chil of the borderlands (the strike was much deeper in kreen territory). But this will cause a good number of the bugs to pour into the (now-empty) lands of the borderlands ruler. This, in turn, will lead them up the ramp and into the Tablelands, leading to a second invasion after the first is (hopefully) turned back. The third invasion will be by the creations of the trio of rhulisti, looking for revenge for what has been wrought on their world. Who will win? Dunno.
#7 Sysane May 26, 2005 13:32:51	That's going to be the cause of the earthquake in my campaign, something that won't be realized by the zik-chil of the borderlands (the strike was much deeper in kreen territory). But this will cause a good number of the bugs to pour into the (now-empty) lands of the borderlands ruler. This, in turn, will lead them up the ramp and into the Tablelands, leading to a second invasion after the first is (hopefully) turned back. The third invasion will be by the creations of the trio of rhulisti, looking for revenge for what has been wrought on their world. Good stuff. I haven't figured out where the Messenger hit IMC. More than likely it will be west of the Kreen Empire as well.
#8 pringles May 26, 2005 13:43:00	its funny to see how people interpret there outside Tableland region. In my campaign, most of Athas is covered by silt and the only place with green is the Crimson savannah, the Hinterland, Forest ridge and the Crescent forest.
#9 dawnstealer May 26, 2005 14:06:10	That's the way I handled it originally, too, but with the waters receding twice, I'd say that there'd actually be more land than silt. As far as I can remember, silt would not be that prevalent, sticking to very low-lying areas such as the former "deepest parts of the ocean." Of course, this doesn't take into account the magical/divine nature of Athas' fate, and it's quite possible that there's more silt present than the former oceans would account for (earth changed into silt, for example). I'm working on a revision to my earlier map that has mostly coarse grasslands giving way to blasted rock as one nears the equator. At the equator, things start to boil away, the rock becoming "mushy" and semi-melted. Not much lives there. In between that and where the Tablelands are, though, there are plenty of kreen.
#10 xlorepdarkhelm_dup May 26, 2005 15:01:21	My take, slightly simpler. The Kreen as a species existed in the Blue Age, on a few isles, and more or less non-sentient. The Nature-Benders, when they were forced out of the Tyr'nagi (sic) region, found the Kreen race, and saw potential in that race to become their warriors to retake what the Nature-Benders thought was rightfully theirs. So, the Nature-Benders modified the Kreen, sort of advancing their evolution to make thm sentient, as well as more aggressive and expansionistic. The Nature-Benders learned to like many of the advantages the Kreen had, so they modified themselves to be more like the Kreen. This process led to them becoming the Zik-chil. Their new Kreen Empire, able to expand as the oceans had receeded, spread rapidly across the plains of what once was the ocean floor. They never were able to get back to the Tablelands, however, due to a combination of physical limitations of the Kreen, and also other barriers placed by their ancient enemies. Over millenia, the genetic memories that the Zik-chil adapted themselves to have based on the Kreen, began to break down. The memories became muddled, and they have long since forgotten what their original purpose was. However, they have always retained the determination to claim the Tablelands - even if they can't agree on why. The Kreen Empire has expanded way beyond the original Nature Bender intentions, and the Zik-chil serve more of an advisory role to the empire they once controlled directly. Life continued this way for them, until the Great Earthquake. The Messenger crashed, and mass destruction occured throughout a large section of the Kreen Empire. The Zik-chil rediscovered their past, as they found the Messenger to be made of a coral-like substance, and had odd, organic technology within it - life-shaped technology. They also had heard rumors that a small section of the great Jagged Cliff barrier has crumbled. The Zik-chil work on discovering how to make some of the technology found within the Messenger, while the Kreen Empire sends out scouts to discover the veracity of these rumors that the Tablelands are opened to them. The Kreen scouts ran up to the Tablelands, to not onl discover species they have only rare genetic memories of, but also a breed of Kreen that apparently is opposed to the Empire. Former slaves of the Empire that have somehow reached the Tablelands and forgotten their purpose. But the region was definitely ripe for the Kreen Empire's taking. These scouts return to the Empire, to report. --- now, my campaign had it that the party discovered this odd Kreen clutch of species they had never seen before, and followed them to the Great Rift, went down behind them, and ran into the Crimson Savannah - and into literally legions of Kreen, spent about two weeks going through, trying to survive, to only get capturd, brought before a Zik-chil, lost one of their members to the Zik-chil's experimentation, broke free, and escaped back to the Tablelands barely with their lives intact (I mean, literaly, they had attributes weakened almost to the point of death, and were both at single-digit hit points). They recovered after a few weeks, and then developed what I thought was a completely insane plan - to convince each of the City-State's rulers of the danger that the Kreen Empire possessed, to form a unified army that can fight this insurmountable threat. They started with Tyr, then went to Balic, from there they went to Gulg and Nibenay (appealing to each of those Sorcerer-Kings' personalities), then to Draj, and finally to Urik (they felt Hamanu would be the hardest to convince). They took this army - along with some from various larger villiages, went, and had a huge battle at the great rift, which ended with it being sealed.
#11 zombiegleemax May 26, 2005 17:27:54	I always wondered why the SKs never went past the Jagged Cliffs. There is evidence in the hinterlands of an Avangion/kreen country, and a whole swag of Pterrens. My take on this was that Rajaat did not want anyone messing with his magical strongholds at the base of the jagged cliffs, nor with the remnant halfling nature bending society. Particularly his Champions. He used magic wards to keep most out, but he in built into his champions a powerful forbidding preventing them from physically crossing past the edge of the Jagged Cliffs. Thus when the dying days of the cleansing wars began to ravage the hinterlands, the champions could not lead their armies down to the Kreen nation. Then the rebellion against Rajaat took place, and the SKs holed up whilst the Dragon did his thing. Those that had become aware of the forbidding kept it secret, believing it hid great power. The Kreen have long expanded as far as they could. Their society is stagnating, becoming increasingly decadent. And now, thanks to a convenient earthquake they have now discovered a land more or less empty. They are eager to explore, and expand rejuvinating their stagnating society. Basic plan the SK follow is to have someone turned into a mad 10th stage dragon and directed down onto the Crimson Savanna to cause mayhem and havoc. This someone is a non SK. Firstly because none of them can physically enter the crimson savanna, and secondly, a 10th stage Dragon is not a Champion. It would be a threat once the madness ended, but not an insurmountable one to the SKs. Turning another of themselves into a full Dragon however is too big a risk. Without arcane magic to oppose the rampaging Dragon (Rajaat never taught the Kreen) it is able to cause great destruction more or less unopposed, fueling it's magic with the most potent life shaped creations the Kreen have available. Even the three halflings from the messenger, who ally with the kreen nature benders can not create something to oppose the Dragon. The Kreen nature benders fall out of favour as the Dragon rampage continues and they are killed in the resulting destabilisation and breakdown of society as kreen flee the approach onslaught and invade neighbours, sparking internal wars which only hasten the breakdown of the kreen empire. Eventually the tohr-kreen become more like their thri-kreen cousins. After a century of madness, the Kreen empire should be as broken as the Tablelands, and the SKs will have had the time to prepare for whatever is left, namely a 10th stage Dragon and his descicated empire of thri-kreen. Thus no actual Kreen invasion ever takes place. A reasonable twist to this would have the life shaper halflings create life shaped creations that were immune to the defiling powers of the dragon. This would lead to a remant of the Kreen Empire, now dominated by halfling life shapers holding off against the new Crimson Dragon and his descicated empire.
#12 dawnstealer May 26, 2005 17:36:08	I like that, Xlor - that's a pretty good breakdown (YOINK!). As far as the Tablelands go, an expansive kreen empire surrounding known civilization (if you believe, as I do, that the Ringing Mountains are a chain that circle the Sea of Silt), it would certainly explain why humanity (halflinganity?) never spread much beyond its borders.
#13 xlorepdarkhelm_dup May 26, 2005 18:16:24	I like that, Xlor - that's a pretty good breakdown (YOINK!). As far as the Tablelands go, an expansive kreen empire surrounding known civilization (if you believe, as I do, that the Ringing Mountains are a chain that circle the Sea of Silt), it would certainly explain why humanity (halflinganity?) never spread much beyond its borders. I personall don't like the idea of the Kreen ever learning anything along the lines of Arcane magic - with no contact with the Tablelands, and what they can personally see in the swamps under the Jagged Cliffs (the effects of Rajaat's experiments), there's no reason that they would ever pick up Arcane magic. However, I've been considering that the Zik-chil still practice a distorted form of the perverted lifeshaping that the Nature-Benders wielded. Plus, they do have Psionic class members, as well as Clerics and Druids. I've been considering that Psychic Warriors could be the mainstay of the "military" force of the Kreen Empire - being more dominant than Brutes or Fighters. Oh, and the Kreen - as they have no Sorcerer-Kings, would have no Templars (or Paladins). I do seriously consider them one of the most expansionistic cultures out there - and while they've been unable to reach the Tablelands, they have spread out as far as they possibly could in every other direction around the globe - after all, they have really had all the time in the world to accomplish this. There might be other small bastions of cultures that have somehow defended themselves from the Kreen, but for the most part, the world is dominated by them. Oh, and I have considered having the Zik-chil, using their distorted perversion of Lifeshaping, actually developed vessels capable of sort of "spelljamming" - without the use of Arcane magic. Thus, the Xik-chil of Spelljammer, are actually the Zik-chil from Athas, and their Tohr-Kreen Empire.
#14 zombiegleemax May 27, 2005 2:50:51	I personall don't like the idea of the Kreen ever learning anything along the lines of Arcane magic - with no contact with the Tablelands, and what they can personally see in the swamps under the Jagged Cliffs (the effects of Rajaat's experiments), there's no reason that they would ever pick up Arcane magic. However, I've been considering that the Zik-chil still practice a distorted form of the perverted lifeshaping that the Nature-Benders wielded. I limit arcane magic to the some of the zik-chil (if running along the lines of 3rd ed. all kreen should have the capability), who have learned it in a limited fashion as they would need to have an understanding of the corrupted places and items left behind by Rajaat as the base of the Cliffs. The zik-chil actively hide this knowledge and hunt down any kreen who show magical powers i.e. suffering from Rajaat's Curse. The Windriders book gives a fair idea on how different the life-shaping powers of the kreen are. It mentioned that the kreen’s 'attacks intensify 1 year in every 25', which suggests that the kreen are altered at a genetic level rather than in the direct way that rhul-thaun life-shaping works (p. 72). This and other passages in the book (plus a mention in one of the published articles that primitive kreen once had wings), made me think of the kreen having a seperate line of development rather than being an off-shoot from the halflings. I'd seen the Blue Age dominated by Halflings, while the kreen were still fairly primitive creatures who inhabited islands far to the west of Tyr'agi. The Brown Tide changed Athas and allowed the kreen to evolve and expand. This is when I first see the Halflings and kreen come into conflict (described as the 'most ancient enemies of the rhul-thaun'). IMO the zik-chil could be a different species/caste of kreen who can manipulate genetics in a more complex but similar way that insects can determine sex/drone/warrior/queen etc. This ability became increasingly refined through time and then boosted through their experiments with Rajaat's forgotten artefacts.
#15 dawnstealer May 27, 2005 10:11:56	I personall don't like the idea of the Kreen ever learning anything along the lines of Arcane magic - with no contact with the Tablelands, and what they can personally see in the swamps under the Jagged Cliffs (the effects of Rajaat's experiments), there's no reason that they would ever pick up Arcane magic. Absolutely agree, here: kreen cannot use magic in my campaigns, 3.5e or no. Neither can Zik-chil. My point was that they see a power that they don't completely understand, but they understand it's a perversion of life-shaping/-bending and want it for their own.
#16 zombiegleemax May 27, 2005 10:30:04	Absolutely agree, here: kreen cannot use magic in my campaigns, 3.5e or no. Neither can Zik-chil. My point was that they see a power that they don't completely understand, but they understand it's a perversion of life-shaping/-bending and want it for their own. I guess it's a matter of world flavour :D I wouldn't have your average kreen using magic, but IMC the zik-chil become very warped and corrupt, partially through the influence of magic. They don't show they have any arcane ability except within their conclave (if a kreen saw anything it wouldn't live to tell the tale). This gives them an edge over the other kreen and a level of power over any kreen ABs they create through Rajaat's magic.
#17 dawnstealer May 27, 2005 11:03:04	I run it that they have masters life-bending to such a degree that it's practically defiling (and this is partially what Rajaat took to create magic). Even so, they lack the means to actually cast arcane magic. I have used their life-bending abilities in a manner that's very similar, however, using life to power their abilities.
#18 xlorepdarkhelm_dup May 27, 2005 11:15:39	I limit arcane magic to the some of the zik-chil (if running along the lines of 3rd ed. all kreen should have the capability), who have learned it in a limited fashion as they would need to have an understanding of the corrupted places and items left behind by Rajaat as the base of the Cliffs. The zik-chil actively hide this knowledge and hunt down any kreen who show magical powers i.e. suffering from Rajaat's Curse. Ahh, but unlike other settings, Arcane magic isn't something natural and easily discovered. Arcane magic is something taught and studied through the use of Rajaat's original teachings (or, in my version, something that can be born in someone, if they have one of the Dragons as an ancestor). The Windriders book gives a fair idea on how different the life-shaping powers of the kreen are. It mentioned that the kreen’s 'attacks intensify 1 year in every 25', which suggests that the kreen are altered at a genetic level rather than in the direct way that rhul-thaun life-shaping works (p. 72). Rhulisti life-shaping was genetic level. Rhul-Thaun don't really remember how to do that. This and other passages in the book (plus a mention in one of the published articles that primitive kreen once had wings), made me think of the kreen having a seperate line of development rather than being an off-shoot from the halflings. Never, [i]ever[/] suggested they were an offshoot from Halflings. They were an independent race that the Nature-Benders modified to suit their purposes, that is what I said. I'd seen the Blue Age dominated by Halflings, while the kreen were still fairly primitive creatures who inhabited islands far to the west of Tyr'agi. The Brown Tide changed Athas and allowed the kreen to evolve and expand. This is when I first see the Halflings and kreen come into conflict (described as the 'most ancient enemies of the rhul-thaun'). I see the Blue Age as dominated by the Rhulisti halflings. But, there also were the ancstors of the Kreen there. They would have advanced normally, if it wasn't for the Nature-Bender Rhulisti that were exhiled from Rhulisti society, that in turn, found the Kreen ancestors, and modified them. IMO the zik-chil could be a different species/caste of kreen who can manipulate genetics in a more complex but similar way that insects can determine sex/drone/warrior/queen etc. This ability became increasingly refined through time and then boosted through their experiments with Rajaat's forgotten artefacts. The Zik-chil, for me, are now more or less a separate species. They started as Rhulisti Nature-Benders who modified themselves to become similar to the species that they had enhanced, taking on qualities they liked - the extra limbs, the exoskeleton, the genetic memories, etc.
#19 xlorepdarkhelm_dup May 27, 2005 11:20:14	I run it that they have masters life-bending to such a degree that it's practically defiling (and this is partially what Rajaat took to create magic). Even so, they lack the means to actually cast arcane magic. I have used their life-bending abilities in a manner that's very similar, however, using life to power their abilities. I don't even really associate it with Arcane magic. They manipulate existing creatures to suit their needs, frequently killing them and torturing them in the process. They could concievably use life energies to accomplish this, but I see the process as being rather excruciating, as the Zik-chil literally cause new structures to form within an andividual's body, while older ones atrophy and die away. Oh, and for Nature-Master lifeshaping, I refer to the Yuuzong-vong from Star Wars. No magic, only technology. 100% biological technology.
#20 zombiegleemax May 27, 2005 11:59:30	Ahh, but unlike other settings, Arcane magic isn't something natural and easily discovered. Arcane magic is something taught and studied through the use of Rajaat's original teachings (or, in my version, something that can be born in someone, if they have one of the Dragons as an ancestor). The zik-chil have had thousands of years to learn, possibly through access to Rajaat's ruins in the swamps and scouts picking up information in the Tablelands, but as I said it's a matter of flavour. Never, [i]ever[/] suggested they were an offshoot from Halflings. They were an independent race that the Nature-Benders modified to suit their purposes, that is what I said. Sorry about that, should have made it clearer that I was referring to other posts about the subject.
#21 Siberys Dec 17, 2006 22:07:09	'lo I just got into DS, and one thing that always intrigued me was the Kreen. I've read as much as I could about them (which is, unfortunately, just what's in the DS revised boxed-set and the DS3E stuff), but I am, amazingly, understanding all of this. I like the idea of the rest of the world being primarily Kreen. It just reeks of coolness! What should I get to understand Tohr- and Thri-Kreen culture? I am thinking Thri-Kreen of Athas, of course, but is it necessary? Also, where could I get the cheapest PDF version? [edit - found 'em @ paizo for $4 a pop... not bad, considering my funds...] sorry to hijack the thread, or to necropost, but I love the Kreen... Cheers, Siberys
#22 thebrax Dec 17, 2006 22:16:37	The Zik-chil, for me, are now more or less a separate species. They started as Rhulisti Nature-Benders who modified themselves to become similar to the species that they had enhanced, taking on qualities they liked - the extra limbs, the exoskeleton, the genetic memories, etc. Wow. GMTA. :D
#23 terminus_vortexa Dec 18, 2006 1:52:58	'lo What should I get to understand Tohr- and Thri-Kreen culture? I am thinking Thri-Kreen of Athas, of course, but is it necessary? Also, where could I get the cheapest PDF version? [edit - found 'em @ paizo for $4 a pop... not bad, considering my funds...] sorry to hijack the thread, or to necropost, but I love the Kreen... Cheers, Siberys Thri-Kreen of Athas is definitely the best source of info about the Kreen written to date.
#24 elonarc Dec 18, 2006 2:46:56	Definitely. It is beyond me why one could declare himself a huge fan of the kreen and yet wonder if he should get the best supplement ever written on them. Different species of kreen, life of the kreen, weapons of the kreen... It's really *that* great.
#25 cnahumck Dec 18, 2006 7:06:40	you also should look at the Wanderer's cronicle in the second box set (revised setting) it has some stuff about them too, and Wind riders of the jagged cliffs does as well.
#26 Siberys Dec 18, 2006 7:42:08	Yeah, thanks. But, ye see, I am an Eberron fan, and Races of Eberron and the Player's Guide were a dissapointments. I'm ALWAYS sure to ask about a book before getting it. Guess I will be getting this one and a few others... :D I've got the Wanderer's Chronicle, but Jagged Cliffs... I never considered that... Thanks all, and sorry again for hijacking the thread! Cheers, Siberys
#27 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Dec 18, 2006 11:47:18	Wow. GMTA. :D hehe guess so.
#28 Zardnaar Dec 19, 2006 1:51:54	I would place the Kreen invasion in FY 16 1 year afte rthe events of Rise and Fal of a Dragon King or FY 14 1 year after Dregoth Ascending. In my future timeline I have them fall to a bio plague unleashed by the Rhul-Than.
#29 ruhl-than_sage Dec 19, 2006 17:25:32	Yeah, thanks. But, ye see, I am an Eberron fan, and Races of Eberron and the Player's Guide were a dissapointments. I'm ALWAYS sure to ask about a book before getting it. Guess I will be getting this one and a few others... :D I've got the Wanderer's Chronicle, but Jagged Cliffs... I never considered that... Thanks all, and sorry again for hijacking the thread! Cheers, Siberys You have to remember that this stuff was released back in the days of TSR when sourcebooks were almost all fluff (description) and no crunch (rules).... WotC products especial core and ebberon are far too crunchy and what fluff they do have tends to be lacking in imagination, poorly written, and repetative. At least Forgotten Realms still has a decent writting team and doesn't overdo the rules, and some of the Ebberon stuff is good. Thri-kreen of Athas, just like all of the old DS sourcebooks is 80% descriptive and high quality at that!
#30 ruhl-than_sage Dec 19, 2006 17:27:05	I would place the Kreen invasion in FY 16 1 year afte rthe events of Rise and Fal of a Dragon King or FY 14 1 year after Dregoth Ascending. In my future timeline I have them fall to a bio plague unleashed by the Rhul-Than. Please don't give me all the credit :D , some of the Ruhl-Thuan helped. ;)
#31 Siberys Dec 19, 2006 19:03:19	You have to remember that this stuff was released back in the days of TSR when sourcebooks were almost all fluff (description) and no crunch (rules).... WotC products especial core and eberron are far too crunchy and what fluff they do have tends to be lacking in imagination, poorly written, and repetative. At least Forgotten Realms still has a decent writting team and doesn't overdo the rules, and some of the Ebberon stuff is good. Thri-kreen of Athas, just like all of the old DS sourcebooks is 80% descriptive and high quality at that! Well, I personally think Eberron fluff is very well written... but agin, not to derail the thread :D
#32 zombiegleemax Dec 26, 2006 16:08:37	I envisioned making an animated short of the Kreen invasion using the score from Kornos Kortet's Two Towers theme (Requiem for a Dream) were you follow the a trail of devestation as the Kreen army moves like a swarm of locusts, eating everything in their path. However, they are not led by a Kreen leader, but rather, an Elemental King. During the Green Age, Athas was ruled by them. 30th level elemental lords. This lord is out for revenge against the Champions. The halflings at Ogo will fall victim to them. They will cut through the Forest Ridge, through a pass in the Ringing Mountains and finally to Uruk, which will discover these Kreen can fly. Hamanu will be easily destroyed by the Elemental King. The Kreen will march towards Raam. Draj as well as Gulg and Nibeney will send their armies to meet them Dregoth will send his armies to meet the Kreen as well. Will Dregoth be strong enough to subdue the Elemental King? That is the unanswered question.