I was trying to think of what the original ogre's should look like (stat wise) and here is what I did:
Medium Giant, the stats and HD are to represent the "Tall, strong and proud" aspects of Ogres
Favored class, Cleric: as the Dark Queen's favored children High Ogre's have an innate connection to their patron and creator.
Common High Ogre (Age of Dreams)
:P
Also, you might have better luck in www.dragonlanceforums.com.
I'd sign up ... but I visit enough boards already
the other site ... you have the wotc hpyerlink and the other link all together
the only real reason I picked the giant type was ... well, no good reason I just liked Giant better than Humanoid ... and I had to keep the giant type, just had to!!!
I'd sign up ... but I visit enough boards already
the other site ... you have the wotc hpyerlink and the other link all together
wait! wait! I know why I picked the Giant type ... FLAVA!!!! ... the same reason their favored class was pegged at cleric (of takhisis), flavor and fluff.
BUT remove their shape changing ability (that was given to them when they became the Idria)
you know they are pracicly the same as the idria (they excaped the ogre's fate by turning from evil.
BUT remove their shape changing ability (that was given to them when they became the Idria)
that still makes them wimpy though ... a -2 con for a race described as being bigger and meaner than humans?
underpowered: that was deliberate, when the ogres began to fall they became larger, stronger, and waaay stoo-pider. As an average Int/wis and high cha race they held great potential to create an empire ... a haughty over-prideful one at that. I was thinking of keeping them at Large size, but I comprimised with medium and Hulking-brute as a bonus feat.
Also, the example given is as plain as you get ... 10/11's as base stats, no real equipment, etc. Throw in the standard array (even with cha as a dump stat) and some class levels to change things up a bit.
I read The Irda back when it first came out and don’t really remember much about what powers they had and used. I think they did have different color skin but again, not sure about specifics.
So this is a request to you motivated people and those who have recently read or reread the books.
Describe some of the powers that the Ogre’s used (and whether or not it was by a powerful ogre or a commoner) and what they looked like.
[edit to original post, LA should be +1 … the ecl calc included HD, and at 2.5 I rounded up to 3 (for ecl) and subtracted two for the HD … leaves +1)
And Titans are blue-skinned and very much like Irda's other way except their brutal giant size. So, Irdas probably are very much what the original High Ogres were. But maybe High Ogres were physically more powerful (which also should rise the ECL rating). But not Hulking Brutes.
Now, have anybody read the THE IRDA -book (I haven't). I think that tells the story of High Ogres.
Ogre sorcerers of Age of Mortals (Dauroth and his gang) say that original High Ogres were like the Titans they have transformed themselfs. But, personally I dont think original Ogre were giants like that.
You would be right - they were nothing like ogre titans. Dauroth just wishes they were.
Cheers,
Cam
... But not Hulking Brutes.
iirc (been a long time since I read it) in the Irda the original ogres were tall, strong, and powerful. ie Hulking brutes, but with style.
in order not to have them large size, I went with the feat Hulking Brute from the DLCS since it mimics some large size benefits at a lesser cost (in respects to LA) than going to large size.
and I remember something about the different colors of skin that the original ogres had ... but my memory is suspect at times.
I don't remember the high ogres from the Irda book being unusually big or strong. I mean, irda are just high ogres with shapechanging skills, right? The original irda come from the usual high ogre stock; the rebellious, good high ogres left the crumbling society and moved to the Dragon Isles. Mishakal or Paladine gave them the ability to take other humanoid forms to disguise themselves among the other races.
Actually, every textual source that mentions high ogres mentions how physically and magically potent they were. The irda are physical weaklings, compared to what they once were. The irda, amongst all ogre races, are closest to their Age of Dreams ancestors...but they're not high ogres, not truly.
--the last high ogres died out a long, long, LONG time ago, during the Age of Dreams NB
You would be right - they were nothing like ogre titans. Dauroth just wishes they were.
Cheers,
Cam
Indeed. I'm wondering how long it'll be before Dauroth decides to elevate half-ogres and minotaurs into the titans' ranks...
--if I were a minotaur, I'd be struck with awe by an ogre titan, and beg to be transformed NB
Actually, every textual source that mentions high ogres mentions how physically and magically potent they were. The irda are physical weaklings, compared to what they once were. The irda, amongst all ogre races, are closest to their Age of Dreams ancestors...but they're not high ogres, not truly.
--the last high ogres died out a long, long, LONG time ago, during the Age of Dreams NB
now if someone hadn't sent his Irda novel to that great big used bookstore up the street (a ways) we wouldn't be in this predicament! :P
what I'd like to know is what type of magic powers they may have used, ... hoping for ones that are worth a CR/LA of +1
I can look at Solarin's ECL Calculator for ideas, but I was hoping to get some textual examples
So, you could give same kind of natural magical powers. This raises the ECL rating very high...
Again - Irda Book might give some ideas what kind of natural powers they may have had (or not had). Maybe many of them just were Sorcerers - so, many could use easily the primal magic of Krynn. And they lived long. So that why everyone remembers them so powerful because many of them could wield powerful magics...
So, you could give same kind of natural magical powers. This raises the ECL rating very high...
yeah, I'm trying to avoid having a high ECL ...
[edit] I think the Irda have set the standard for ogre's developing magical powers ... so, I think that any High Ogre powers wouldn't be as powerful as the Irda's shapechanging ability ... even then even 'minor' powers could prove extremely useful.
ps: don't mean to dwell on this topic, but my gears are set in motion and I just keep thinking about it! (that and my Pern-cloned dragons
)magical abilities on the other hand are harder to do. The irda spent millenia developing their shapechanging abilities so it's pretty well developed. taking some power ideas from Soldarin's ecl calc and combining it with a high ogre only feat, here's a rough draft:
Queen's Favored (working title only)
Prereq: High Ogre (meant for Age of Dreams Ogres), must be taken at 1st class level
benefit: you get to choose one power from the list below
*Single energy resistance 10
*Immunity to 1+cha mod number of spells (min one, later increases do not affect this power)
*Fear (DC 10 +cha mod, later increases/decreases do affect this)
*Blindsight
*+3 save vs one school of spells (covers divine and arcane ... evocation, necro, illusion, conjure, abjure, divination, enchantment, transmute)
*any one 1st lvl spell, usable 1+cha mod per day. min 11 cha, inc/dec of cha affects this ability. I would peg the original Irda as using disguise self, and later getting much better at it ...
*any one 0th lvl spell 2+cha mod per day. as above but min 10 cha
all these powers are at the +.2 score for Solarin's ECL Calc (link in above post) which would put the total ECL for the High Ogre at 2.6 (round up to 3 ... counted hulking brute as a minor power)
not that I expect to see people wanting to play original high ogres, but a slighty awry time reaver spell might drop one of the poor things into the current age *DM fiat, DM fiat*
MAYBE, just maybe take the Hulking Brute away... Just make them tall, and they are alot stronger and bigger than average race with STR +2 and CON +2. That should mean they are BIG, but not necesserily LARGE in size.
Also how about making the Favorite Class: Sorcerer
Feat is good - but if it something you choose then it shouldn't count to ECL.
High Ogres: Str +2, Con +2, Cha +4; 2HD; Medium Size. Did I get it right? That sounds good. Add also Low-Light Vision, and then you have maybe ECL +2? Not more.
MAYBE, just maybe take the Hulking Brute away... Just make them tall, and they are alot stronger and bigger than average race with STR +2 and CON +2. That should mean they are BIG, but not necesserily LARGE in size.
Also how about making the Favorite Class: Sorcerer
Feat is good - but if it something you choose then it shouldn't count to ECL.
take out hulking brute? can do ... I'd let it be available as a 1st lvl to though.
Feat doesn't count towards ECL at all I was just trying to make sure it wasn't anything to powerful for a 1st lvl feat of an ECL 3 monster.
Low light vision is a trait of giants, so they get it already
...maybe ECL +2? Not more.
...
it's a toss up between ecl +2 and +3 ...
thanks for the input!
Also how about making the Favorite Class: Sorcerer
thought about sorcerer, but went with cleric instead ... they were meant to be the Dark Queen's favored race and she expects them to do what she says. Sorcerer would be too good, they already have a natural boost to their cha ...
ps: removed hulking brute as a bonus feat, but they have the option of taking it as a 1st hd or 1st lvl feat.