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#1SysaneJun 09, 2005 8:27:59 | I realize that this 2e ability was scrapped due to balance issues and trying to stay as close as possible to the 3.5 cleric. Has there been any consideration of making a 1st level DS spell that scales with level advancement? Say a "Summon Element" sort of spell that does 1d6 points of damage based on the element? I always loved this ability in 2e and was saddened to see it dropped and not converted in any fashion in 3.5. |
#2SysaneJun 09, 2005 9:25:34 | Something along these lines might work to fill that gap. Elemental Burst Evocation [Air, Earth, Fire, Water] Level: Clr 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Area: 5-ft.-radius burst Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes Upon casting this spell, you release a powerful stroke of your patron element that encircles all creatures in the area, dealing 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to each of them. |
#3KamelionJun 09, 2005 9:55:59 | I would say that this is vastly overpowered for a 1st-level spell. Compare it with the 5th-level Flame Strike / Elemental Strike. Your spell has a slightly lower damage cap, a shorter range and a smaller area of effect - hardly enough to make it 4 levels lower. Also compare it to Flaming Sphere, which does far less damage. I would make your spell 3rd level, at a first guess. |
#4SysaneJun 09, 2005 10:08:58 | I would say that this is vastly overpowered for a 1st-level spell. Compare it with the 5th-level Flame Strike / Elemental Strike. Your spell has a slightly lower damage cap, a shorter range and a smaller area of effect - hardly enough to make it 4 levels lower. Also compare it to Flaming Sphere, which does far less damage. I would make your spell 3rd level, at a first guess. I'd say it was 2nd-level at the very most. The DC would be extremely low by comparison as well. Lets say a cleric with a Wis bonus of +3 cast this spell. The DC would be 15. A cleric casting Flame Strike would have a DC of 18. A Minor globe of Invulnerability would stop it as well, where it would not stop a Flame Strike. I could also change that it would grant a 1d6 for very two caster levels rather than every caster level. |
#5KamelionJun 09, 2005 10:18:33 | I could also change that it would grant a 1d6 for very two caster levels rather than every caster level. I agree - with that modification, it's probably more workable as a 2nd-level spell. |
#6SysaneJun 09, 2005 10:29:52 | Alright then. Here's the 2nd level adjusted version. Elemental Burst Evocation [Air, Earth, Fire, Water] Level: Clr 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Area: 5-ft.-radius burst Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes Upon casting this spell, you release a powerful stroke of your patron element that encircles all creatures in the area, dealing 1d6 points of damage for every two caster levels you have attained (maximum 10d6) to each of them. |
#7jon_oracle_of_athasJun 09, 2005 16:48:49 | No second level spell should be able to do 10d6 points of damage to multiple targets, if I'm reading your description right. |
#8hunterccJun 09, 2005 17:57:51 | When compared to Magic Missile it does seem excessively powerful... |
#9darzanJun 09, 2005 18:38:01 | No second level spell should be able to do 10d6 points of damage to multiple targets, if I'm reading your description right. I'd have to agree. Maybe make it 3rd level ala fireball and lightning bolt? |
#10ruhl-than_sageJun 09, 2005 20:14:10 | Compare? O.K.: It doesn't do 10d6 damage until 20th level, plus unlike Magic Missle it has a close range, allows a reflex save, and is 2nd level. Also, it can only hit multiple targets if they are within the 5ft radius burst where as Magic Missle can target multiple targets that are significantly farther apart from eachother. In conclusion, I think that the spell's second incarnation looks balanced, I don't however remember the Clerical 'Gate' ability as means to attack opponents. I thought that you could as the ability was named, 'Gate' a quantity of your element from its plane of origin. Assuming that, only the elements of Fire and Magma would really suggest a weapon (unless you count Earth in the form of dropping rocks on someone's head). If you gated material from the elemental plane of Air, wouldn't it be Air rather than Lightning that you gated. Afterall (in this Hypothetical situation) you are an Air Cleric and you are gating material from the plane of Air, not a Lightning Cleric gating material from the plane of lightning. On a side note; I personally don't like the one size 'fits all elements' attack spells. Each element (and their associated energy types), has different qualities. Lightning generally comes in bolts and from the sky, Acid is usually a liquid (such as rain, a fog, or a splash), Fire (ironically) sets things on fire and has a tendancy to spread, etc. There are already plenty of spells that are designed specifically for the various elements (look at the Druid and Wizard spells lists). Most of these could be easily co-opted for use on the Cleric spell list, but only available to specific elements. If you still want more options, get creative, but keep the qualities of the element involved. You don't see anyone suggesting a 'Waterquake' spell, so why (expect for the sheer coolness of the visual) do people just go with 'Acid Strike' and 'Cold Storm' spells rather than using spells that are designed for the element. |
#11SysaneJun 09, 2005 20:17:29 | Magic missile is actually more powerful IMO. No save, no chance of indirectly hitting allies, froce effect that can damage incorporeal creatures without a miss chance roll. Mind you, thats all for a 1st level spell. This spell can save for half and effects a small radius of foes, can hurt allies if miss judged, and would still have to roll miss chance against incorporeal foes. I agree that the 10d6 max might be a bit to strong for a 2nd level spell (granted, that would be at 20th freaking level!). Perhaps I could drop it to 6d6 max (12th level cleric would be casting at that). |