In EAFW, the elemental plane of sun consists of something that looks like the plane of Air with a sun in it. I always thought that was underdevelopped (so as to not say lame... oups).
Last night, I got to thinking, what if the plane of Sun was actually the Dark Sun itself. It would then be slightly easier to explain the influence the pristine tower had on it to change its colour (like opening a doorway to the plane/sun). The lords could be fire or magma lords that were looking for other domains to conquer.
The thing is, I've Dmed Planescape a long time and to me the paraelemental plane of Silt relates to the plane of dust. Where would the plane of sun be in that configuration of the elemental planes? I thought of the plane of radiance but I don't like that idea.
Anyways, I kind of like the idea of actually having demented sun lords on the dark star of Athas' system plotting to make the little planet burn under its rays! :evillaugh
What do you think, guys?
Lame idea or what?
PB
However, I think the description of the plane could use a bit of a touch up..
I'd say, if you wanted yes there could be some air around the sun, but primarily the action would be, you start your walk on the surface of the sun, but that's just where the border guards are.. the real action.. the real society of the sun.. is within the sun! If I'm immune to the sun's rays.. I'm gonna go sun diving! I'm gonna swim / fly around in the nucleus of a star! Also, I think an Advanced being para-elemental of the sun could look all bronze / gold statue-like.. with radiant reflective hair. Think.. Greek God or something, but everything in sun color / sunset tones.. so.. maybe redish more than gold.. but still..
Do you think the powers of the sun plane want Athas's sun to remain Red?? I mean it is after all like the sun was defiled and drained of life by both the halflings and Rajaat. Now too Sadira... I could think that the Sun types are seriously ticked at their home being canibalized by the Athasian species.. especially after they are kind enough to provide helpful light for seeing and photosynthesis, etc.. I'd think they'd wann fry the place as revenge...
or, if nothing else.. just for fun. After all, doesn't everyone want to live on their own sun?? (That dark lense has to tick them off too, sapping energy from the sun all the time).I often wonder what would happen if the dark lense were taken to the para-elemental plane of sun??
Well, anyway.. there's my ramblings..
I like the idea! Very cool. But I think it should be the plane of Radiance...just a corrupted one, with dark islands, rivers of fire between the islands, and neon smoke filling the voids that surround it all. The Scorched Paradise.
OOOoooo!, sounds pretty
. It would be kind of a boring place if it was literally just the sun, just like the plane of earth would be kind of lame if it were just a solid infinate expanse of one kind of rock.Maybe the plane of sun could have multiple or even infinate suns within it :D .
You could even combo that with the above description from Greyorm.
If it mirrored the present dark sun then you could possibly include areas of Blue and Yellow radiance which may preserve something of the past (portals through time..., earlier elementals).
BTW, I like lap tops- helps ease the pain while I replace my home PC.
I Dm the elemental plane of sun, as the darksun itself. It is a corrupted plane of fire. The elementals of this plane are all evil instead of being neutral.
I also Dm the plane of radience differently. I have the planes split up into three diffrent realms. Radience of Sun, radience of Ral, and radience of Gulthay. Instead of elementals, I have neutral Celestials reside within these Planes. Celestials from the realm radience of Sun are all lawful neutral and they have golden skin with hair a blaze with fire. The Celestials from the radience of Ral and Gulthay are Chaotic Neutral in nature and are blue, silver,or purple skinned with silver or black hair. I have these Celestials unconcerned with the daily life of Athasians (with the exception of Draj and their rituals), they are only concerned with their own duties (this deals with the rewritten cosmology, so it won't be mentioned here). Celestials from the Sun's Radience may choose Cleric spells from Fire and Sun Domains; while celestials from Gulthay's Radience may choose Sun and Water, and the celestials from Ral's Radience may choose Rain and Silt. As part of the cosmology I have written, these Celestials have made special deals with various Elemental Lords in exchange for divine energy to power their spells. The details I will spare.
I have created my own version of how the plane of radience functions. Hell, I have actually rewritten the cosmology and life death cycles, and have it all tied to the planes (this is not the time to explain all that).
I Dm the elemental plane of sun, as the darksun itself. It is a corrupted plane of fire. The elementals of this plane are all evil instead of being neutral.
I also Dm the plane of radience differently. I have the planes split up into three diffrent realms. Radience of Sun, radience of Ral, and radience of Gulthay. Instead of elementals, I have neutral Celestials reside within these Planes. Celestials from the realm radience of Sun are all lawful neutral and they have golden skin with hair a blaze with fire. The Celestials from the radience of Ral and Gulthay are Chaotic Neutral in nature and are blue, silver,or purple skinned with silver or black hair. I have these Celestials unconcerned with the daily life of Athasians (with the exception of Draj and their rituals), they are only concerned with their own duties (this deals with the rewritten cosmology, so it won't be mentioned here). Celestials from the Sun's Radience may choose Cleric spells from Fire and Sun Domains; while celestials from Gulthay's Radience may choose Sun and Water, and the celestials from Ral's Radience may choose Rain and Silt. As part of the cosmology I have written, these Celestials have made special deals with various Elemental Lords in exchange for divine energy to power their spells. The details I will spare.
No, please go into as much detail as you can. Now that I'm starting up a DS campaign again one of my ambitions is to make the DS cosmology as organic and functional as possible. From what you've written here it sounds like you've done a good job of that.
I can see that working, much more fun, nice imagery Greyorm.
Thanks!
If it mirrored the present dark sun then you could possibly include areas of Blue and Yellow radiance which may preserve something of the past (portals through time..., earlier elementals).
Oooo...idea.
You could have like the Court of the Yellow Queen, which would be this fading imperialist dynasty of radiance/fire elementals. They don't really have any power, they're lost in their dreams and memories of yesterday, and ancient meaningless ritual. I'm thinking decadence and opulence tinged with the wear and dust of time: the crowns are tarnished, the banners faded, the yellow dresses are stained, the wine is weak, and dusty cobwebs coat the reaches of the halls.
There's all sorts of yellow light streaming through the windows of the palace, and the canopies in the dark wilderness forests of twisted black flame around it. For the most part it is all thick with shadow, the light is just a dim and fading reminder of lost times in the neon darkness. The queen's palace is an expansive, crumbling, ill-maintained fortress that hints of the former glory of the Court of the Yellow Queen, but also indicate its time has passed by and the Court is simply dying (or has died) unnoticed around the aged survivors.
And you could have something like the childlike Tribes of the Radiance, who are the last remnants of radiance elementals, but who have now reverted to barbarism and savagery. They and their child king camp in the glowing, wind-blasted desert badlands deep in the heart of the isles, sitting and telling stories to one another all day long.
Maybe they have artifacts of forgotten power, now little more than useless heirlooms from a forgotten time they still tell their improbable tales of: when the deserts of the isle ran with glowing flames, and were abundant with all form of riches and sustenance and their kind partook in its glorious providence, when the flame rivers were made of radiant, multicolored light and the void was brilliant and clear.
You would have the cave of Azure Light in which the Flame Eternal is kept by a Blue Age elemental so ancient all have forgotten its name. The Flame is the only source of True Light left, for all the rest has been stolen away (by the Black Lens and Pristine Tower). In the time of the Yellow Queen, a temple of priestesses was once raised around the cave, but it has now fallen into a monster-haunted ruin.
And you could have the Tribes of the Moon, Ral and Guthay, who cross the isles, clashing and fading, rising and dying. Inheritors of a forgotten lineage of royalty and sophistication, from the days of the Courts of the Moon, presided over by the Yellow Queen. And their airy buildings reached towards the glittering radiance of the void between the isles, were elegant and calm. There was song, and notes of music glowed with their own amazing light. Now they seek the radiance of blood to restore the light of the Moons.
There are a couple other things out there, perhaps they aren't evil, per se, and some of them are unique, intelligent beings -- seers, prophets and witches, something like the ogress from the Dark Crystal. Things you are afraid to be eaten by, but powerful and wise.
The new rulers of the plane are successionists from the Yellow Queen, willing to do anything to survive: twisted, dwarf-like elementals full of noblese fury and aristocratic savagery. I'm thinking opulent courts of obsidian and neon peopled by shadows of smoke. Gothic towers surrounded by smoke ravens and crows, and darker winged things of smoke-shadow. Extravagant head-dresses and layers of jewelry, rings, etc. Elegant embroidered robes with endless trains, and massive thrones of glowing red crystal that take up entire walls, all carven in bas relief by master artisans. And all the courts are focused around truly horrid entertainments: torture and bloodsport and debasment of the worst kind.
And then there would be crumbling ruins from the age of the Yellow Queen, shattered castles like the one in the volcano from Shrek, littering magmatic paths of fire and hanging over rifts of crimson radiance, haunted by monsters and full of courts of Bitter Ashes, elementals whose light has gone out and faded away and who are now dark, soulless things -- like the ghosts or shades of elementals.
I'm thinking places where none of the Queen's light now shines, only dusty, torn memories; and more smoke ravens, crows, and darker winged things gathered laired within its holes and swirling around the walls, all littered with radiant bones and haunted by monsters of flame and darkness.
The monsters would be the Dark Ones, elementals of crimson fire and black obsidian, destructive creatures born from the rivers of flame and the paths of fire, which burned away half of paradise an age ago. They would be mythological elemental beasts, living in the ruins of the lost ages and out in the wilds beyond the borders of the Yellow Queen's former dominion. They are the dragons and chimeras of the isles of the Scorched Paradise, so to speak, and they like places of ancient power where a little bit of blue light might yet trickle out of the walls.
Kal, I will post my ideas if anyone else is also interested. I would have to begin my own thread. It is alot of writing. To top it all off, I'm not as eloquent as Grey.
Here is another sample of my cosmology without going in too much detail (just incase you may not be interested in it after all).
I have the spirits of the dead cross over to the grey. Over time, the spirits break down into three aspects,(forgive me for the names still working on those) radience, shadow, and smoke. Radience is purified spirit essence, the material that is redistributed to life on Athas. The soul of a new born begins as radience this is the selfless, altruistic part of the spirit. A new soul also is born with shadow, this apect of the spirit helps one to survive, this is the egotistical, selfish aspect of the soul,the self destructive side, it begins very small but can grow to diminish the radience of the spirit. Through life,the being accumulates memories which cloud its spirit, this is smoke.
My cosmology works like reincarnation, except spirits go through a purification process.
Radience is gathered and goes to the plane of radience. Shadow gets distrubeted to the black. Smoke (memories) remains in the grey, that is why the dead can be called on even after they have broken down.
This is just a small part. Let me know!
Dang, Grey! You are a great writer! Very nice!
Kal, I will post my ideas if anyone else is also interested. I would have to begin my own thread. It is alot of writing. To top it all off, I'm not as eloquent as Grey.
Here is another sample of my cosmology without going in too much detail (just incase you may not be interested in it after all).
I have the spirits of the dead cross over to the grey. Over time, the spirits break down into three aspects,(forgive me for the names still working on those) radience, shadow, and smoke. Radience is purified spirit essence, the material that is redistributed to life on Athas. The soul of a new born begins as radience this is the selfless, altruistic part of the spirit. A new soul also is born with shadow, this apect of the spirit helps one to survive, this is the egotistical, selfish aspect of the soul,the self destructive side, it begins very small but can grow to diminish the radience of the spirit. Through life,the being accumulates memories which cloud its spirit, this is smoke.
My cosmology works like reincarnation, except spirits go through a purification process.
Radience is gathered and goes to the plane of radience. Shadow gets distrubeted to the black. Smoke (memories) remains in the grey, that is why the dead can be called on even after they have broken down.
This is just a small part. Let me know!
Carry on. I think that it is interesting to see how others invision their personal Athas
Dang, Grey! You are a great writer! Very nice!
Kal, I will post my ideas if anyone else is also interested. I would have to begin my own thread. It is alot of writing. To top it all off, I'm not as eloquent as Grey.
Thanks Joboo
I'm also very interested in hearing more about your cosmology; what I've seen so far of it is great stuff! By all means, keep posting details about it! (Gotta tell you, I love the smoke/radiance/shadow ideas regarding the souls.)
It's almost too easy to picture when you describe it like that!
I'm not completly off my physical sun idea, yet but, Nice.
Wow, you guys have been busy.
Good work Joboo.
Thanks Joboo
I'm also very interested in hearing more about your cosmology; what I've seen so far of it is great stuff! By all means, keep posting details about it! (Gotta tell you, I love the smoke/radiance/shadow ideas regarding the souls.)
perhaps this is the wrong thread for this, but coming up with this "theology" on souls, could almost lead too.. a new cleric class!!! a Cleric of the black? or the grey? I know there are wizard types associated with those two planes, so maybe.. a new PrC to go with it?? what do you think?
perhaps this is the wrong thread for this, but coming up with this "theology" on souls, could almost lead too.. a new cleric class!!! a Cleric of the black? or the grey? I know there are wizard types associated with those two planes, so maybe.. a new PrC to go with it?? what do you think?
That would be quite a cool idea. I added something like this to my home games, using the Black Flame Zealot from Complete Divine as a template. Cut/paste from my DS homebrew prestige class document:
Black Flame Zealot: A Black Flame Zealot is a cleric who has moved beyond his dedication to the elements and instead devoted his heart to the mysterious plane known as the Black. A black flame zealot discards his element and forges a pact with the Black, drawing spells from its shadowy essence. The black flame zealot loses any elemental domains and replaces them with an equivalent number of domains drawn from the following list: Darkness, Cold, Creation, Dream or Summoner. Remove the black flame zealot’s death attack, poison use, sneak attack and unholy immolation abilities. Add the following abilities, all as per the Shadow Wizard abilities of the same name: 1st level – chill touch, shadow casting, shadow taint; 2nd level – shadow illusion; 3rd level – shadow jump (20 ft.); 4th level – shadespeaker; 6th level – shadow jump (40 ft.); 8th level – shadow jump (60 ft.); 9th level – shadow jump (80 ft.); 10th level – shadow form.
It's a bit of a clone of the Shadow Wizard class, but it keeps the same sort of flavour for a devotee of the Black.
perhaps this is the wrong thread for this, but coming up with this "theology" on souls, could almost lead too.. a new cleric class!!! a Cleric of the black? or the grey? I know there are wizard types associated with those two planes, so maybe.. a new PrC to go with it?? what do you think?
Well, I am currently working on writing my cosmology so that it can be read. It might be a little while before it is posted.
I see darksun wizards as being quite a bit different than the wizards of the other campaign worlds. Here is somthing else I plan to include in my post.
Wizards use life energy to power their arcane spells. This means that they are even closer to the order of life and death, than the elemental clerics.
Since I use a form of reincarnation in my own cosmology, wizards can affect this process by deciding upon which method to use, preserving or defiling. Defiling, disrupts the natural recycling process by actually "burning up" the life energy they use. Preserving shapes life energy into spells without destroying it, once the spell ends it turns back into life energy, so that it can return to the recycling process.
Because arcane magic can affect reincarnation on Athas, I have given them acess to a few cleric spells (not healing, they are still arcane spell users).
In my cosmology, neutral aligned celestials reside upon the planes of radience. Their job is to redistribute the life energy that they harvested from the grey back to Athas. Preservers happen to be in their favor, because they respect the life energy they use. Defilers often have alliences that reside deep within the black, in the form of Demons or Devils.
The cleric spells that I have added to the wizard list are, Lesser Planar Ally as 5th level arcane spell, Planar Ally as a 7th level arcane spell, Greater Planar Ally as a 9th level arcane spell. The ally summoned must be a Celestial if the wizard is a preserver, and a Feind (demon or devil) if the wizard is a defiler.
Clerics in darksun are devoted to their patron element. Wizards do not need to be devoted to any particular faith, they just tap into life energies. Depending how you use life energy depends on what kind of allies you may have. A preserver of any alignment can call upon the service of a celestial. Likewise a defiler of any alignment (likely to be evil) could call upon the service of a fiend.
This is why the advanced being of a preserver wizard is an Avangion (a Celestial). The advanced being for a defiler is a Dragon (a quite feindish one).
Remember this is just my point of view, and hopfully I can explain it all much clearer later.
That would be quite a cool idea. I added something like this to my home games, using the Black Flame Zealot from Complete Divine as a template. Cut/paste from my DS homebrew prestige class document:
It's a bit of a clone of the Shadow Wizard class, but it keeps the same sort of flavour for a devotee of the Black.
You know I was making some domains specifically for evil/coorupted clerics of the elements. The presitge class could perserve the elemental affliation of the cleric, but twist it by adding the taint of the black. So instead of just Black Flame Zealot you could also have Black Earth Zealot, Black Water Zealot, and Black Wind Zealot not to mention the paraelements. It wouldn't be too much of a clone if the element was still a part of the consept.
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