Unique Magic Items vs. General Magic Items - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Unique Magic Items vs. General Magic Items

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Dragonhelm
Jun 17, 2005 7:14:33 Andre' and I were having a discussion last night that I thought would be good for the boards. Let me give some background.

We were talking about such items as Tasslehoff's Magic Mouse Ring, which began as sort of a unique magic item, but became a generalized magic item later on (becoming one of many rings in TotL, then one of many charms with ToHS).

On the one hand, unique magic items are more flavorful. Saying that you wield a +2 flaming giant bane greatsword is a yawner compared to saying that you wield the mighty Giantsmiter.

On the other hand, these unique magic items often appear in the hands of characters in novels and not so much in the hands of players. Some DM's and players may feel that such weapons are "off limits", being story elements they don't want to touch since they are placed on a pedestal. More generic items would go a long way for players to have access to such magical items without taking away from epic stories.

So the question is, which approach do you take? Would it be better if the gaming books had unique magic items in them that don't belong to novel characters?
#2
cam_banks
Jun 17, 2005 7:33:29 My feeling is that every magic item a character possesses is unique, and has some story behind it. They don't always have that story attached in the game products (we never hear about the story behind Salah-Khan's matching +2 wounding scimitar and +2 wounding kukri, for example) but that presents a really neat opportunity for the DM to flesh the game out a little without treading too much on what is written.

Dragonlance is a D&D setting and the characters, as D&D characters, will end up with a fair amount of magic items. They always have had magic items, even the Heroes of the Lance, in the gaming products. Tanis actually started out in DL1 back in 1984 with a +2 longsword, although in the novels you never heard about it. We downgraded that for the 4th-level Tanis in War of the Lance to a +1 longsword but it's no less magical. It is possible that minor magical items, such as the occasional +1 handaxe or +1 shortbow are but exceptional and well-crafted items that have acquired their enchantments over the years, or were among the few real efforts at magic of a hedge wizard or industrious priest. Are they worthy enough of a name like Wyrmslayer or Giantsmiter? Perhaps they are - it all depends on what is done with them and how much the players want to invest in such backstory.

Cheers,
Cam
#3
valharic
Jun 17, 2005 10:08:39 It dosen't matter to much either way. My PC's replaced the characters in the novels, to a degree. The HotL exist but not in the same incarnation as they did in the novels. So, for that reason, the magic items from the novel exist just not in the hands of those characters. With the exception of a few item.

Also I think it's funner to let the PC's create the magic items. They will appreciate them alot more. I use the magic item creation in the DMG as a start and have them quest for items that will contribute to it's creation, like a feather of s Couatal(SP?) or scale of a Red Dragon, things like that.

So for me the existing magic items from the novels work fine.
#4
zombiegleemax
Jun 18, 2005 10:32:10 it really doesn't matter to me either way. on the one hand it is very cool to say "well my character uses Stormbringer" or whatnot. but on the other hand i have a character that has a shortsword of speed, so my character took it upon himself to name the sword "Quickstrike" really nothing more than the basic +1 shortsword of speed, but now it sounds cooler. kinda along the lines of what Cam said, becuase now my character is creating the backstory for this weapon.

i would have no problems with characters in my DL campaign coming across certain character specific items so long as it does not intrude on the timeline too much. for example who is to say a charcter in my group is unable to find Nightbringer among the debris in Pax Tharkas? as long as the character is seprated from the weapon befre the events in "the Rose and the Skull" so that dark knight can gain possesion of it, i dont see how it would be taboo.
#5
darthsylver
Jun 18, 2005 14:40:01 I would have to agree with Cam in that in DL (not necesarily all settings) every magic item is supposed to be unique. It does not always turn out that way so when my characters get new items I give them a little backstory of the item. It might be as little as saying "Sir Mark had his longsword enchanted to better allow him to fight his enemies, and it was lost when he was slain 3 years ago." This would be for something like a longsword that only had a weapon enhancement and no extra abilities such as Flaming or Frost damage. When an item is created I try to create a story to match the abilities of the item so the more abilities the item has the longer and better story. As this is dragonlance the WoHS (or at least before the chaos war) endeavored to recover all magic items that were of a sufficient level in order to prevent their misuse, even from their rightful owners & creators.

A recent incident was when the party recovered a suit of full plate armor and a longsword from a sunken wreck. Well the armor & sword were adorned with the designs of a lily knight. The party really wanted to keep the sword but not the armor (mostly non-heavy armor using classes) but were not sure what to do because they did not know if the owner of the armor & the sword was alive or dead. So they did a little poking around to try and find out who the owner was, and his current state, before they sold the armor and kept the sword. The knight of course was dead, but they had to be sure.

I think having unique or at least individual backstories for each item gives more opportunity for role-playing.

Now as far as for the unique items in the novels being used by the characters I have no problems this. If a character has an item that a novel character is supposed to have then I just say the novel character has an extremely well made copy of the original. This puts the emphasis back on the players rather than the nvel characters.

I would rather see items with stories rather than without. This is one reason that I use the "Relics and rituals" books, as each item has a story but does not have a value because in their world, magic is so unique that you cannot put a value on it.
#6
wolffenjugend_dup
Jun 18, 2005 18:25:17
I would rather see items with stories rather than without. This is one reason that I use the "Relics and rituals" books, as each item has a story but does not have a value because in their world, magic is so unique that you cannot put a value on it.

They have values, they just aren't in the book. IIRC, errata was put out that had all the magic item values.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jun 20, 2005 22:57:23 Mostly, my players get magic items off of the corpses of the villains. Generaly the bad guys don't explain the stories of the weapons. I think the closest it gets is a boss enemy, trying to enrage the party, saying that he took his enchanted dragonsteel greatsword off of the corpse of a Knight of Solamnia (Shortly before being killed by our party's Knight of Solamnia, who now wields the blade).
So while most magic items have stories, my players very rarely learn them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dragonhelm Jun 17, 2005 7:14:33	Andre' and I were having a discussion last night that I thought would be good for the boards. Let me give some background. We were talking about such items as Tasslehoff's Magic Mouse Ring, which began as sort of a unique magic item, but became a generalized magic item later on (becoming one of many rings in TotL, then one of many charms with ToHS). On the one hand, unique magic items are more flavorful. Saying that you wield a +2 flaming giant bane greatsword is a yawner compared to saying that you wield the mighty Giantsmiter. On the other hand, these unique magic items often appear in the hands of characters in novels and not so much in the hands of players. Some DM's and players may feel that such weapons are "off limits", being story elements they don't want to touch since they are placed on a pedestal. More generic items would go a long way for players to have access to such magical items without taking away from epic stories. So the question is, which approach do you take? Would it be better if the gaming books had unique magic items in them that don't belong to novel characters?
#2 cam_banks Jun 17, 2005 7:33:29	My feeling is that every magic item a character possesses is unique, and has some story behind it. They don't always have that story attached in the game products (we never hear about the story behind Salah-Khan's matching +2 wounding scimitar and +2 wounding kukri, for example) but that presents a really neat opportunity for the DM to flesh the game out a little without treading too much on what is written. Dragonlance is a D&D setting and the characters, as D&D characters, will end up with a fair amount of magic items. They always have had magic items, even the Heroes of the Lance, in the gaming products. Tanis actually started out in DL1 back in 1984 with a +2 longsword, although in the novels you never heard about it. We downgraded that for the 4th-level Tanis in War of the Lance to a +1 longsword but it's no less magical. It is possible that minor magical items, such as the occasional +1 handaxe or +1 shortbow are but exceptional and well-crafted items that have acquired their enchantments over the years, or were among the few real efforts at magic of a hedge wizard or industrious priest. Are they worthy enough of a name like Wyrmslayer or Giantsmiter? Perhaps they are - it all depends on what is done with them and how much the players want to invest in such backstory. Cheers, Cam
#3 valharic Jun 17, 2005 10:08:39	It dosen't matter to much either way. My PC's replaced the characters in the novels, to a degree. The HotL exist but not in the same incarnation as they did in the novels. So, for that reason, the magic items from the novel exist just not in the hands of those characters. With the exception of a few item. Also I think it's funner to let the PC's create the magic items. They will appreciate them alot more. I use the magic item creation in the DMG as a start and have them quest for items that will contribute to it's creation, like a feather of s Couatal(SP?) or scale of a Red Dragon, things like that. So for me the existing magic items from the novels work fine.
#4 zombiegleemax Jun 18, 2005 10:32:10	it really doesn't matter to me either way. on the one hand it is very cool to say "well my character uses Stormbringer" or whatnot. but on the other hand i have a character that has a shortsword of speed, so my character took it upon himself to name the sword "Quickstrike" really nothing more than the basic +1 shortsword of speed, but now it sounds cooler. kinda along the lines of what Cam said, becuase now my character is creating the backstory for this weapon. i would have no problems with characters in my DL campaign coming across certain character specific items so long as it does not intrude on the timeline too much. for example who is to say a charcter in my group is unable to find Nightbringer among the debris in Pax Tharkas? as long as the character is seprated from the weapon befre the events in "the Rose and the Skull" so that dark knight can gain possesion of it, i dont see how it would be taboo.
#5 darthsylver Jun 18, 2005 14:40:01	I would have to agree with Cam in that in DL (not necesarily all settings) every magic item is supposed to be unique. It does not always turn out that way so when my characters get new items I give them a little backstory of the item. It might be as little as saying "Sir Mark had his longsword enchanted to better allow him to fight his enemies, and it was lost when he was slain 3 years ago." This would be for something like a longsword that only had a weapon enhancement and no extra abilities such as Flaming or Frost damage. When an item is created I try to create a story to match the abilities of the item so the more abilities the item has the longer and better story. As this is dragonlance the WoHS (or at least before the chaos war) endeavored to recover all magic items that were of a sufficient level in order to prevent their misuse, even from their rightful owners & creators. A recent incident was when the party recovered a suit of full plate armor and a longsword from a sunken wreck. Well the armor & sword were adorned with the designs of a lily knight. The party really wanted to keep the sword but not the armor (mostly non-heavy armor using classes) but were not sure what to do because they did not know if the owner of the armor & the sword was alive or dead. So they did a little poking around to try and find out who the owner was, and his current state, before they sold the armor and kept the sword. The knight of course was dead, but they had to be sure. I think having unique or at least individual backstories for each item gives more opportunity for role-playing. Now as far as for the unique items in the novels being used by the characters I have no problems this. If a character has an item that a novel character is supposed to have then I just say the novel character has an extremely well made copy of the original. This puts the emphasis back on the players rather than the nvel characters. I would rather see items with stories rather than without. This is one reason that I use the "Relics and rituals" books, as each item has a story but does not have a value because in their world, magic is so unique that you cannot put a value on it.
#6 wolffenjugend_dup Jun 18, 2005 18:25:17	I would rather see items with stories rather than without. This is one reason that I use the "Relics and rituals" books, as each item has a story but does not have a value because in their world, magic is so unique that you cannot put a value on it. They have values, they just aren't in the book. IIRC, errata was put out that had all the magic item values.
#7 zombiegleemax Jun 20, 2005 22:57:23	Mostly, my players get magic items off of the corpses of the villains. Generaly the bad guys don't explain the stories of the weapons. I think the closest it gets is a boss enemy, trying to enrage the party, saying that he took his enchanted dragonsteel greatsword off of the corpse of a Knight of Solamnia (Shortly before being killed by our party's Knight of Solamnia, who now wields the blade). So while most magic items have stories, my players very rarely learn them.