1. Has anybody done anything with the Brown Dragons mentioned in IM1 - The Immortal Storm? How do they fit in with Mystara's ecology? They are listed as having one more HD than the huge Gold Dragon from the RC!
2. I haven't seen beholders in any Mystara modules, only the Rockhome gaz and in CoM where one is said to live in Graakhalia. So in determining the areas where beholders can be found I don't have much to go on. I currently theorize that they are originally from Old Alphatia and have come to Mystara with them. The beholder is (I believe) based off of Oriental myth and being a "floating" creature, fits well with the "Followers of Air". From here I figured they spread south, to the Isle of Dawn and Ochalea, and west through Norwold's Wyrmsteeth, the Kurish Masif, and the Black Mountains to Hule. Any thoughts on the beholder's range?
3. I've never used the Dragonfly from the CC, but I decided to place them on the southern continent of Davania. I later thought that, because the description says they are magical crossbreds, they were created by the Carnifex. Could this be feasible?
4. Here's a different one: Is the Grazer from DA3 an extinct creature? What about the Quarg?
5. Where is the Guardian Warrior & Horse from (other than the CC that is)? Who made these constructs?
That's for starters, but I'm sure there will be more!
(Background: This is just some thoughts and questions that have been popping up while working on the OD&D creature index.)
1. Has anybody done anything with the Brown Dragons mentioned in IM1 - The Immortal Storm? How do they fit in with Mystara's ecology? They are listed as having one more HD than the huge Gold Dragon from the RC!
I always had this idea of a brown dragon in Norworld which seizes power in Wyrmsteeth and leads dragons in an all out war against the King Ericall. It included a big scene where dragons crash through that huge window in the palace in Alpha. It would have been the grand CM10 I always hoped would be published by TSR back in the 1980's, which I thought would be as grand as B10 and X10 were. I was going to write it for Dungeon Magazine, but that never happened.
2. I haven't seen beholders in any Mystara modules, only the Rockhome gaz and in CoM where one is said to live in Graakhalia. So in determining the areas where beholders can be found I don't have much to go on.
Beholders are in CM1 and CM3(Norworld) and CM7(Alfheim). One also appears in the Broken Lands in Tower of Doom.
I currently theorize that they are originally from Old Alphatia and have come to Mystara with them. The beholder is (I believe) based off of Oriental myth and being a "floating" creature, fits well with the "Followers of Air". From here I figured they spread south, to the Isle of Dawn and Ochalea, and west through Norwold's Wyrmsteeth, the Kurish Masif, and the Black Mountains to Hule. Any thoughts on the beholder's range?
The Dragonlord trilogy has a small reference to beholders being part of the invasion force led by the gemstone dragons. The reference includes a mention that such creatures had never been seen before. There are beholders in the module M1 which were in Old Alphatia. Gargantuan beholders.
3. I've never used the Dragonfly from the CC, but I decided to place them on the southern continent of Davania. I later thought that, because the description says they are magical crossbreds, they were created by the Carnifex. Could this be feasible?
4. Here's a different one: Is the Grazer from DA3 an extinct creature? What about the Quarg?
5. Where is the Guardian Warrior & Horse from (other than the CC that is)? Who made these constructs?
That's for starters, but I'm sure there will be more!
Dragonflies were in X6 and X9 on the Savage Coast, I think.
Guardian Warrior & Horse never showed up outside the CC.
I always had this idea of a brown dragon in Norworld which seizes power in Wyrmsteeth and leads dragons in an all out war against the King Ericall. It included a big scene where dragons crash through that huge window in the palace in Alpha. It would have been the grand CM10 I always hoped would be published by TSR back in the 1980's, which I thought would be as grand as B10 and X10 were. I was going to write it for Dungeon Magazine, but that never happened.
Epic indeed! What did you think of the possibility of brown dragons being more ancient and magically accomplished gold dragons (skin colour merely dulled through age)?
Beholders are in CM1 and CM3(Norworld) and CM7(Alfheim). One also appears in the Broken Lands in Tower of Doom.
The Dragonlord trilogy has a small reference to beholders being part of the invasion force led by the gemstone dragons. The reference includes a mention that such creatures had never been seen before. There are beholders in the module M1 which were in Old Alphatia. Gargantuan beholders.
Thanks. I missed the CM1 and CM3 reference (a double oops). I don't have CM7 unfortunately
, but the locations are at least very consistant with the notion of them being of Alphatian origin (and their migrations), especially with the IM1 reference! What is Tower of Doom?Dragonflies were in X6 and X9 on the Savage Coast, I think.
I can't find them in either!
Guardian Warrior & Horse never showed up outside the CC.
Thanks for the confirmation. Any ideas who would have made these?
Epic indeed! What did you think of the possibility of brown dragons being more ancient and magically accomplished gold dragons (skin colour merely dulled through age)?
That was the premise of my whole adventure idea. I forgot the reference in IM1, but I noticed the entry in the RC, and I liked the idea of corrupt, incredibly powerful gold dragons(or that they were related to gold dragons).
I really should have tried to write that thing, I always thought I could do it in the future, but the window of opportunity closed.
Thanks. I missed the CM1 and CM3 reference (a double oops). I don't have CM7 unfortunately
That is the arcade game, along with Shadows over Mystara. I include them in Mystara lore because they weave a suprisingly consistent tale with the RPG books. Shadows over Mystara even reveals the final plans of Synn.
I can't find them in either!
Egad, you are correct. I should have checked, but I recalled something about the Savage Coast. Fortunately for both of us, over ten years ago I wrote a fairly comprehensive index of data to be found in just about every D&D Mystara product ever published. So after six mintues of searching, I found the only canonical reference to dragonflies outside the CCs:
Dragon Magazine #171
The Princess Ark is approaching Slagovich when it is attacked by a swarm of giant red dragonflies sent by the Master.
Thanks for the confirmation. Any ideas who would have made these?
Without having looked at it and having only the vaguest recollection, should it just be another type of golem/living statue?
Off the top of my head, there is an undead beholder in a dungeon in M2: Vengeance of Alphaks (in Norwold) and also a beholder in temporal stasis in M4: 5 Coins for a Kingdom (but that is set in another world).
I have never read a module that contains the Quariks (CC, page 40-41), but from their description it sounds like they live far to the north in Norwold.
And speaking of references to old modules and where creatures can be found:
Where is the Pachydermion from? (CC page 43)
And the Sis'thik? (CC page 45-46)
And the Stalwart? (CC page 47, possibly a new PC race?)
:-) Jesper
I have never read a module that contains the Quariks (CC, page 40-41), but from their description it sounds like they live far to the north in Norwold.
And speaking of references to old modules and where creatures can be found:
Where is the Pachydermion from? (CC page 43)
And the Sis'thik? (CC page 45-46)
And the Stalwart? (CC page 47, possibly a new PC race?)
:-) Jesper
I think pachydermions showed up in Davania somewhere, but that was in the online Mystara almanacs(I don't think it was the PWAs).
The others above never showed up in published modules, although I do recall someone on the mailing list mention that they had placed Quariks in their campaign.
The other half of my CM10 idea was a confrontation between the players and the wizard Gargantua, whose creatures had populated the CM modules. Did anyone else think TSR was planning something with that wizard? Or was I reading too much into a reason to inflate the stats of ordinary creatures to challenge high level PCs?
I have never read a module that contains the Quariks (CC, page 40-41), but from their description it sounds like they live far to the north in Norwold.
I haven't seen them in an adventure either, but seeing as how the other two "Man, Isolated" entries have, you'd think they were. Here's a thought for you, if there isn't any canon info on them, perhaps they lived on the area where the new polar openings needed to be and so were "moved" by Ka and his Immortal allies.
Where is the Pachydermion from? (CC page 43)
I have them placed on Davania but since I found the reference of Ganetra from HWA3 Nightstorm, I'm leaning towards having them extinct on the outer-world and existing only on the HW's continent of Jomphur.
And the Sis'thik? (CC page 45-46)
This is another creature that I've placed on Davania. I thought it would be good to have creatures that you can't find on Brun - it can give the other continents more of a unique flavour to have cretaures there that the PCs have never seen before!
And the Stalwart? (CC page 47, possibly a new PC race?)
These guys aren't in the DMR2 version of the CC. What are they?
1. Has anybody done anything with the Brown Dragons mentioned in IM1 - The Immortal Storm? How do they fit in with Mystara's ecology? They are listed as having one more HD than the huge Gold Dragon from the RC!
Brown dragons were first mentioned in the Master DM's Book, when the set also added the gemstone dragons (no relation to the AD&D gem dragons), which were alignment opposites of their chromatic or metallic "relations". Brown dragons were the gemstone version of gold dragons; how that was supposed to work is beyond me, as the color would seem to make them a chromatic dragon rather than a gemstone dragon. Crystal dragons were lawful versions of white dragons; onyx were neutral (if goodly) versions of black dragons; jade neutral (if goodly) versions of green dragons; and so on. Personally, I never really fit them into my own campaign, though I had vague ideas that the would be found in Alphatia, the East, and Ochalea (especially the jade dragons), being Alphatian versions of the chromatic and gold dragons (which IMC were not native the Mystara, either).
2. I haven't seen beholders in any Mystara modules, only the Rockhome gaz and in CoM where one is said to live in Graakhalia. So in determining the areas where beholders can be found I don't have much to go on. I currently theorize that they are originally from Old Alphatia and have come to Mystara with them. The beholder is (I believe) based off of Oriental myth and being a "floating" creature, fits well with the "Followers of Air". From here I figured they spread south, to the Isle of Dawn and Ochalea, and west through Norwold's Wyrmsteeth, the Kurish Masif, and the Black Mountains to Hule. Any thoughts on the beholder's range?
I have them as creatures from the Plane of Nightmares, especial servants of Arik, He of the Eyes... found wherever his cultists are — and thus they could pop up anywhere, as Arik extruded his mental essence into the world through nightmares.
3. I've never used the Dragonfly from the CC, but I decided to place them on the southern continent of Davania. I later thought that, because the description says they are magical crossbreds, they were created by the Carnifex. Could this be feasible?
Ideally, these critters would be easy "vat beasts" to make, and thus found wherever high-level wizards could be found. As the creatures have no asterisks (their breath weapon is not powerful enough to warrant a bonus to their XP), the magic-user would require the casting of a "create normal monster" spell cast upon a dragon's egg once per day for a full month (28 days), plus the egg must be steeped in a magical solution of doppelganger's blood, hill giant's bile, and dragonfly larvae (perhaps 1,000 gpv per HD of the dragon type, if you prefer the quick and dirty cash option). At the end of the month, the egg hatches 1d4 dragonflies of the appropriate type, under the absolute control of creator (empathy out to one mile per hit die; they are not familiars per se, merely servants). They breed true, so wild versions can easily be encountered in areas where such a magic-user has (or once had) a tower.
4. Here's a different one: Is the Grazer from DA3 an extinct creature? What about the Quarg?
Up to you... you could place it anywhere you want, really, outside the main inhabited (i.e. catalogued) regions of the Known World... or even there, if you want to change things around a bit. They could certainly still be found in the Hollow World...
5. Where is the Guardian Warrior & Horse from (other than the CC that is)? Who made these constructs?
I don't recall them being in any modules off the top of my head; they seem like a British made item, so they are probably from one of those modules (IIRC, this is almost a certainty). I've used them extensively in my version of Ochalea — they make excellent tomb guardians, much like those in the RW Chinese tomb from which they were most certainly inspired.
Mystaros
I have never read a module that contains the Quariks (CC, page 40-41), but from their description it sounds like they live far to the north in Norwold.
Do you know what module that one was from? I thought I had all of them but cant remember seeing it anywhere other than in the old CC.
Quariks are said to live in the north, so way in the northern part would fit, although I think maybe Vulcania would fit even better. Hyperborea might work too...
Where is the Pachydermion from? (CC page 43)
Someone suggested these be found in Thyatis. Sind and Shajapur (Sinds counterpart in the HW) are also obvious choices for this race. It was also suggested that a culture of Pachydermions live on Patera next to the Rakastas of Myoshima.
And the Sis'thik? (CC page 45-46)
As they are desert creatures, I put them on the desert regions on Davania, though I might use them in the Sind and Alaysian deserts of Brun aswell.
And the Stalwart? (CC page 47, possibly a new PC race?)
The description of how they have super stats and always tend to challenge others to duels to prove their superiority always seemed a bit silly to me, but perhaps they could be made into an interestin race afterall.
You'd have to tone down the superiority complex and the stereotypical description a bit aswell as making sure the race is balanced, but the result might be interesting. I'm not sure where they would be found though. Perhaps there is room for them somewhere on the Savage Coast?
Håvard
Where is the Pachydermion from? (CC page 43)
Not sure if it's canon, but weren't the Pachydermions originally from Damocles or Patera (or at least off-world)?
Regards,
Gary
Not sure if it's canon, but weren't the Pachydermions originally from Damocles or Patera (or at least off-world)?
Not canon. But yeah, it was suggested that they were found on Patera. I dont think anyone ever suggested that they originated from there though. I assumed that like the Rakasta, they were originally from Mystara, but were transported to the invisble moon.
Brown Dragons.
According to the Menzter rules, Brown Dragons, AKA Amber Dragons were the chaotic gemstone equivalent of Gold Dragons. IMC I made Browns and Ambers into two separate breeds; Ambers being Gemstone Dragons and Neutral, Browns being chaotic and Chromatic. I also made metallic equivalents of Whites(Copper), Greens(Brass), Blues(Bronze) and Reds(Silver), using Mentzer's logic that their OD&D stats were identical to their counterparts, only with different alignment and breath weapons.
I once used a Brown Dragon that my party encountered on the Elemental Plane of Earth.
For the origins of Dragons, I use a combination of Mystaros' Creation Epic and the Dragonlord Trilogy, with a bit of my own twist:
Mystaros:
Chromantic Dragons are called to Mystara from outer space/outer planes by Hel in her war against Blackmoor.
Mystaros (again):
Metallic Dragons are then called to Mystara by Odin to counter Hel's forces.
Dragonlord/Own Twist:
Some dragons were abducted/lured/called away from Mystara by a Draeden living in the Dimension of Nightmares. There he transformed them to Gemstone Dragons and put a mindcontrol spell on them, using them as an army to attack the Dragons of Mystara. The attack was fended off with the help of Thelwyn Foxeyes who soon after became the Diamond Dragon.
Håvard
Brown Dragons.
According to the Menzter rules, Brown Dragons, AKA Amber Dragons were the chaotic gemstone equivalent of Gold Dragons.
IIRC they were also known as Tiger's Eye Dragons either before or after being Amber Dragons (ie they were called one in the Master rules and the other in the RC.
Regards,
Gary
IIRC they were also known as Tiger's Eye Dragons either before or after being Amber Dragons (ie they were called one in the Master rules and the other in the RC.
Cool, I never noticed that
Håvard
According to the Menzter rules, Brown Dragons, AKA Amber Dragons were the chaotic gemstone equivalent of Gold Dragons.
For the origins of Dragons, I use a combination of Mystaros' Creation Epic and the Dragonlord Trilogy, with a bit of my own twist:
Mystaros:
Chromantic Dragons are called to Mystara from outer space/outer planes by Hel in her war against Blackmoor.
Mystaros (again):
Metallic Dragons are then called to Mystara by Odin to counter Hel's forces.
Dragonlord/Own Twist:
Some dragons were abducted/lured/called away from Mystara by a Draeden living in the Dimension of Nightmares. There he transformed them to Gemstone Dragons and put a mindcontrol spell on them, using them as an army to attack the Dragons of Mystara. The attack was fended off with the help of Thelwyn Foxeyes who soon after became the Diamond Dragon.
D'oh! That's what I get for posting without fully referencing... duh! Amber dragons... I need more sleep these days, really!
I like your solution RE: the gem dragon origins (though IMC the Dragonlord trilogy is apocryphal). I'd love to see what you worked up for the metallic equivalent of the chromatics!
IMC King Ericall is experimenting with fielding units of mamouth-riding troops (sort of like the war elephants that Hanibal used against the Roman Empire). This is a technique that the Alphatians in Norwold is adopting from local barbarian tribes.
Might there not also be some dinosaurs imported to the fun parks on Aegos (I think it is) in Alphatia? Or is that place strictly a holiday resort with beaches and love cruises?
:-) Jesper
(I'm totally reveiwing my monster database so this is where some of these questions are coming from. I value the input I get from you guys, and perhaps gets us thinking about some things we've never thought about before. Cool ideas can come from group brainstorming
)