Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 father_dale Jun 19, 2005 12:38:02	The Citadel Mystics have a restriction against casting "necromantic" spells. Specifically, CMs are forbidden to cast "necromantic, death or evil spells, either from the domains of those spells from the Necromancy school or spells with the Evil or Death descriptors." What exactly does this mean? I understand what spells with the Evil of Death descriptor means. But what does "spells from the domains of those spells from the Necromancy school" mean? Does this mean spells on the Necromancy domain list? Or does this mean all spells from the school of necromancy, period? If it means all Necromancy spells, then it would prohibit CMs from ever casting Death Ward. Is this the case? That seems a bit odd, as Death Ward is the best protection against (most) necromancy and death spells. Or is it more along the lines of, say, pot leads to heroin, and even using necromancy spells with good effects is just a step away form casting Finger of Death, so even Death Ward is prohibited? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
#2 zombiegleemax Jun 22, 2005 6:19:03	Some of the spells which in 3.5 E fall into the Necromantic school would be considered to be part of the Mentalism sphere in the eyes of Citadel mystics (e.g. fear), and would therefore be permitted. I would think that only the Necromancy domain is prohibited.
#3 cam_banks Jun 22, 2005 7:46:52	The original intent was for it to include all spells with the evil and death descriptors, and/or which belong to the Necromancy school. If I were to go back and do it again, on reflection I think barring the Citadel mystic from having the Death, Evil, or Necromancy domains and restricting access to any spell with the death or evil descriptor would be a better idea. Note that fear is not an enchantment because it draws on the negative energy which is the realm of necromancy, even though it's a mind-affecting spell effect. Cheers, Cam
#4 zombiegleemax Jun 23, 2005 5:50:58	Note that fear is not an enchantment because it draws on the negative energy which is the realm of necromancy, even though it's a mind-affecting spell effect. Cam I never said that fear was an enchantment; only that, according to the completely different classification system of mystical spheres, it fell under Mentalism. Note that in 1st and 2nd edition it was an illusion; I suppose that its school was changed because it was felt that Necromancy had too few spells.
#5 darthsylver Jun 23, 2005 20:02:35	Cnposner I don't think that Cam was trying to say that you were claiming that Fear is an enchantment. He was just building off of your reference to it. Basically he was supporting your view on fear. Of course Fear does not appear on the mentalism domain list in the DLCS. We might see updated versions of the Domain lists when Holy Order of the Stars come out but that is where it stands right now. Father Dale Now as to the heart of this thread. I think that Citadel Mystics are supposed to be barred from casting any spell that would enable them to interact or draw upon the power of spirits. This would normally include most spells with the Evil, Death, and Necromatic descriptors. I get this after reading the book "The Silver Stair." Father Dale your train of thought Or is it more along the lines of, say, pot leads to heroin, and even using necromancy spells with good effects is just a step away form casting Finger of Death, so even Death Ward is prohibited? is more in line with the gist of Goldmoon's teachings. Spoiler for Silver Stair (albeit a small one) Goldmoon advacates against any spell that will allow communication or other interaction with spirits. This is because over time the person may come to the attention of spirits that will attempt to exert power or influence over that person. One of Goldmoon's students developed the ability to talk to the dead in order to learn more about a place (I think it was a place, it might have been the history of a person), a perfectly benign ability and one that could be very useful to historians, but as time went on this spirit eventually seduced the student to evil and almost destroyed something very important to the Citadel of Light. (Intentially being as vague as possible). Personally I think that some of the spells need to be readjusted as far as schools go. Death Ward for instance never states how it works (unlike deathwatch) and protects against some Necro effects, which puts it squarely in the realm of Abjuration (protection) in my opinion, of course.
#6 father_dale Jun 28, 2005 7:00:30	Thanks for the responses guys. I've been away for a bit so haven't had a chance to see this. Its always nice to hear the designer's input in a question. Thanks Cam! My group has essentially reached the conclusion that the restriction applies to a) all spells from the Necromancy school, b) all spells found in the Death, Evil and Necromancy domains, and c) any spell with the [death] or [evil] descriptor. However, I like the reworking that you have Cam. If I read that right it would prohibit CMs from casting spells with the [death] and [evil] descriptor, and would prohibit them from having the Death, Evil or Necromancy domains. Although that might be a little too lenient, as things like Bestow Curse and Energy Drain would still be available, and that doesn't seem very CM appropriate. I think the real problem here is that some Necromancy spells just don't seem real Necromantic. In particular Death Ward. I had always assumed it was an abjuration until somebody pointed out it was a Necromancy spell. But I think we are growing fond of the idea of CMs having that little bit of vulnerability by not having Death Ward available. Its no fun throwing lots of energy/ability draining undead at the party when the cleric can just throw up a Mass Death Ward. Again, thanks for the input!
#7 father_dale Jun 28, 2005 7:02:56	Darth, I haven't read that book yet, so thanks for the info from that. That will be very helpful in understanding the views of the Citadel of Light.