Here are the two main tenets of such a sect.
The only good Wizard is a dead Wizard, as his decomposing corpse can help restore the Earth with its nutrients.
A Preserver is just a Defiler yet to be born.
What do you feel about using the Druidic Avenger druid variant from Unearthed Arcana for a sect of druids that hunt down defilers?
Here are the two main tenets of such a sect.
The only good Wizard is a dead Wizard, as his decomposing corpse can help restore the Earth with its nutrients.
A Preserver is just a Defiler yet to be born.
I use the Druidic Avenger in my Dark Sun campaigns, along with the Aspects of Nature variant as well.
I use the Druidic Avenger in my Dark Sun campaigns, along with the Aspects of Nature variant as well.
The Aspects of Nature wild shape variant is nice.
Now for some fluff.
I have two tenets for this group, as I said in the beginning.
1)The only good Wizard is a dead Wizard, as his decomposing corpse can help restore the Earth with its nutrients.
2)A Preserver is just a Defiler yet to be born.
Can you think of any others or are these two enough?
Any wizard that is slain is left to lie where he drops and the druid will now allow any one to bury him or move him. After the druid moves on whatever happens to the corpse happens, the druid views this as the course of nature.
It does mean that Arcane spellcasters in my game, generally don't get along well with Druids - but what's a little animosity between groupmates?
You misunderstand. for my Dark Sun, those aren't the "variant" druids. That's the standard. All my druids are Druidic Avengers with the Aspect of Nature changes. there is no need for the tenants as you have them, but they are nice all the same. It's just how I percieve Druids for Dark Sun - aggressive, extraordinarily miffed about what arcane magic has done to the world (partly from the way that the Spirits of the Land feel about them), and will actively do whatever they feel necessary to ensure that Athas doesn't get worse.
It does mean that Arcane spellcasters in my game, generally don't get along well with Druids - but what's a little animosity between groupmates?
I understand but I see two groups of druids for Athas.
One group that exists to nurture nature. A druid of this group will eventually settle down in one area and take that area as his and protect it and help it grow. He will settle down there with his animal companion.
The second group is made up of druidic avengers (with the aspect of nature that now you pointed it out to me) who live to put an end to the abuse of magic which is the cause of the decline of Athas.
Thats how I see it anyways.
I understand but I see two groups of druids for Athas.
One group that exists to nurture nature. A druid of this group will eventually settle down in one area and take that area as his and protect it and help it grow. He will settle down there with his animal companion.
The second group is made up of druidic avengers (with the aspect of nature that now you pointed it out to me) who live to put an end to the abuse of magic which is the cause of the decline of Athas.
Thats how I see it anyways.
I can see what you are getting at. I can see that there would have been a less aggressive breed of Druid at one time. However, after the wholesale slaughter of Druids that occured in the past, and the sheer harsh reality of Athas, plus the extremely disgruntled and ticked off image I see the Spirits of the Land having (I work with the idea that if enough land is damaged by defiling, it slowly kills the Spirit of the Land in that area), and the 3,000+ years of basically watching defilers have their way (the most powerful of which ended up being in control of the main hubs of civilization), the Druids are already way past wanting to harmonize with a section of nature. I see them as literally bewlieving that the world is at it's end, and that the longer Arcane magic exists in the world, the quicker that end is hastened. Basically, they feel backed in a corner, and are striking repeatedly.
But, not everyone plays the game quite as harsh as I do. to me, Dark Sun isn't just a desert setting with powerful magic users leading cities, slavery running rampant, and a darker twist to everything. To me, it's a post-apocalyptic fantasy setting of a world only barely surviving as the last few embers of existence fade out. The Druids have no hope. They only have vengeance.
Have you considered just using paladins to fill this role? They would be the avengers and warriors among druids! You could drop or change the alignment requirement, but more-or-less everything else fits.
Heh, I use Paladins as a more militant arm of the Sorcerer-Kings' forces. As well as more or less the Secret Police that even monitors the Templars and ensures their loyalty.
I can see what you are getting at. I can see that there would have been a less aggressive breed of Druid at one time. However, after the wholesale slaughter of Druids that occured in the past, and the sheer harsh reality of Athas, plus the extremely disgruntled and ticked off image I see the Spirits of the Land having (I work with the idea that if enough land is damaged by defiling, it slowly kills the Spirit of the Land in that area), and the 3,000+ years of basically watching defilers have their way (the most powerful of which ended up being in control of the main hubs of civilization), the Druids are already way past wanting to harmonize with a section of nature.
Evolutionary threory would tend to support just the opposite conclusion about the Druids. If as the timeline and stories suggest, there was a great revolt by the Druids against the SKs (even a war if you will), then since the SKs won we can assume that many aggressive Druids were killed, but most of the non-agressive Druids survived. Net effect: because aggression was so brutly selected against, the Druids learned to be more subtle in their war against the SKs, teaching and helping others to oppose them and protecting what land they could while biding their time to build up power.
Besides cannon doesn't have much to say about Druids starting ****, they kind of just tend to blend into the scenery (literally).
In all of this I am not disputing at all the fact that Druids loathe defilers and would take the soonest opportunity to kill one, but you do have to consider that protection of ones guarded lands in absolutely vital if you want to continue to kill defilers and the point of killing them of course is to protect the world not just to bath in blood.
I mean seriously, don't you think that the Spirit of the Land has some say over who it choose to grant power to. I don't think the Spirit would accept a follower that looked to vengance before, its own protection.
Evolutionary threory would tend to support just the opposite conclusion about the Druids. If as the timeline and stories suggest, there was a great revolt by the Druids against the SKs (even a war if you will), then since the SKs won we can assume that many aggressive Druids were killed, but most of the non-agressive Druids survived. Net effect: because aggression was so brutly selected against, the Druids learned to be more subtle in their war against the SKs, teaching and helping others to oppose them and protecting what land they could while biding their time to build up power.
Could have sworn that the SK's attacked the Druids, wiping out all but those who were able to squirrel away and hide. The more complacent ones would have been killed, not the other way around.
Besides cannon doesn't have much to say about Druids starting ****, they kind of just tend to blend into the scenery (literally).
I'm not saying that they are starting anything. I'm saying that the Druids are more likely to kill an Arcane tresspasser in their territory than let on just walk through and sit aside idly. I'm saying that the Spirits of the Land most likely view ANY arcane magic as a threat to their very existence - it all steals from the land. The only difference is scale. Preservers would most likely not have any more love from the SotL's than a Defiler - for the SotL's most likely have seen, over the course of centuries and millenia, numbers of Preservers who had lost their scruples and defiled the land. The SotL's influence would be strong enough to literally change the mentality of the Druids in general.
In all of this I am not disputing at all the fact that Druids loathe defilers and would take the soonest opportunity to kill one, but you do have to consider that protection of ones guarded lands in absolutely vital if you want to continue to kill defilers and the point of killing them of course is to protect the world not just to bath in blood.
They will protect their guarded lands. I'm not even suggesting that they are bnding together and going defiler hunting. I'm just saying that they are really, really ticked off. And that the SotL's have strongly influenced this, as they are the ones who have direct, immediate memories of how the world once was, and what has made it like it is now.
I mean seriously, don't you think that the Spirit of the Land has some say over who it choose to grant power to. I don't think the Spirit would accept a follower that looked to vengance before, its own protection.
You missed my point.
This is where I see we diverge a bit.
I do not see the druidic avenger having any "guarded lands". All of Athas is theirs to protect. I sort of see this sect starting to arise with the death of Tyr's SK.
This is when they saw that the SK's are vulnerable.
Just my idea, I can see how yours works but it doesn't work for me. I just can not believe that the SK's would have been able to find that many druids who lived within their "guarded lands". If they could there would be no druids at all, IMHO.
I do permit Druids to leave their guarded lands - it's not until a Druid has begun their transformation (transfiguration?) into a Spirit of the Land (or rather, my take being that they become part of their patron Spirit of the Land), that they find their range limitations become more pronounced.
I felt that the Druidic Avenger made sense for my Dark Sun, because the anger and resentment of millenia of destruction done by Arcane spellcasters, which infuses the Spirits of the Land, has rubbed off onto the Druids. Further, the Druids themselve have personal hatred for the Sorcerer-Kings - they hold legends of the horrible purge that took place, where Druids died by the thousands at the hands of the SK's and their armies. I felt that the Aspect of Nature worked, as the Druids would exhibit certian traits of the beasts and nature around them, rather than becoming a specific creature - just as the Spirits of the Land are aspects of the natural terrain that they are part of.
And, it also plays with my sense that the classes shouldn't be "steriotypical" classes pulled from the PHB. My Druids are angry, aggressive, and resentful of the atrocities that have happened to the world. They are willing to jump up and pre-emptively defend what little is left of the world, have a strong bond with the Spirit of the Land that grants them their power (however, they can go to another Spirit of the Land to get power, without problems or wories - Druids are all accepted by any Spirit of the Land).
I see :D , well in that case I have nothing to else to say.
Not really, I said "think you won me over" I still have some doubt and am leaning towards having both the normal druid and the druidic avenger.
I have done a bit more thinking since I said that too.
First, I am not as dark as xlorepdarkhelm seems to be.
The number of druidic avengers would be low with the standard druid as the leaders.
I still have a hard time with the druidic avengers having guarded lands.
I also do not see the druidic avenger avoiding the city-states. Who are they going to do the avenging on if they do not go after them?
Not really, I said "think you won me over" I still have some doubt and am leaning towards having both the normal druid and the druidic avenger.
I have done a bit more thinking since I said that too.
First, I am not as dark as xlorepdarkhelm seems to be.
The number of druidic avengers would be low with the standard druid as the leaders.
I still have a hard time with the druidic avengers having guarded lands.
I also do not see the druidic avenger avoiding the city-states. Who are they going to do the avenging on if they do not go after them?
They will hunt and kill the idiots that come out of the cities to dare molest their lands.
Trees do not grow in the cities in the quantity that is needed and there is no wall long enough to encompass all of the farm lands needed to feed the cities.
Not really, I said "think you won me over" I still have some doubt and am leaning towards having both the normal druid and the druidic avenger.
Sorry, that was actually in responce to Xlore, I should have made it more clear. I am definately going to use the 'Normal' druid primarily myself, though the option to use the Druidic Avenger is now open in my campaign after reading this thread. I was merely assenting to Xlore's well thought out interpretation, not adapting it personally. I still have a different take on this, but feel no need to discuss the differences with him further :D .
I have done a bit more thinking since I said that too.
First, I am not as dark as xlorepdarkhelm seems to be.
Neither am I, ;) :angelhide .
I still have a hard time with the druidic avengers having guarded lands.
I also do not see the druidic avenger avoiding the city-states. Who are they going to do the avenging on if they do not go after them?
I wouldn't have any problem with that, except it's a little hard to explain how they get their spells without having a connection to a specific spirit of the land. Of course they could possibly just gain their spells collectively from all the spirits. Alternately they could be supported by a specific Spirit of the Land that another Druid is actually responsible for protecting.
It might be a little hard for them to operate in the city-states still, I think that the SK's and their templars would make things difficult for them. Still, "that's never stopped us before" ;) .
Not really, I said "think you won me over" I still have some doubt and am leaning towards having both the normal druid and the druidic avenger.
Which my personal belief is - to each their own. The only time I get real irate is when people try to tell me how I must run my campaign, or make fictitious, wild claims that something is part of Dark Sun, when it most definitely is not. Or if I'm in a bad mood.
I have done a bit more thinking since I said that too.
First, I am not as dark as xlorepdarkhelm seems to be.
Valid point. I play a very dark, Dark Sun. My campaigns generally don't last too long, as it's rare a group will survive for very long in them
The number of druidic avengers would be low with the standard druid as the leaders.
Interesting. PErsonally, I like leaving Druids without any formal structure to them, usually relying on the Spirits of the Land to keep them relatively organized.
I still have a hard time with the druidic avengers having guarded lands.
heh :p
I also do not see the druidic avenger avoiding the city-states. Who are they going to do the avenging on if they do not go after them?
How about the countless Defilers who flee the City-States, believing that once away from civilization, they can more openly and freely practice their art? There are far more Defilers that remain apart from civilized society, than are included within civilized society.